Matrix Games Forums

Deal of the Week Da Vinci's Art of WarCivil War II Patch 1.4 public BetaHappy Easter!Battle Academy is now available on SteamPlayers compare Ageods Civil War to Civil War IIDeal of the week - An updated War in the East goes half Price!Sign up for the Qvadriga beta for iPad and Android!Come and say hi at Pax and SaluteLegends of War goes on sale!Piercing Fortress Europa Gets Updated
Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

OT: Yamashita

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> OT: Yamashita Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
OT: Yamashita - 4/1/2012 8:57:56 PM   
Footslogger

 

Posts: 740
Joined: 10/9/2008
From: Washington USA
Status: offline
Has any of the treasure that Yamashita buried ever been found? Why did he bury treasure before WWII? Who was Yamashita?
Post #: 1
RE: OT: Yamashita - 4/1/2012 9:09:39 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41088
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
No. There wasn't any. Your mother.

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Footslogger)
Post #: 2
RE: OT: Yamashita - 4/1/2012 9:11:38 PM   
Footslogger

 

Posts: 740
Joined: 10/9/2008
From: Washington USA
Status: offline
Termy...lets see those TOES!

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 3
RE: OT: Yamashita - 4/1/2012 9:20:47 PM   
CT Grognard

 

Posts: 693
Joined: 5/16/2010
From: Cape Town, South Africa
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Footslogger

Has any of the treasure that Yamashita buried ever been found?


No. The Seagrave couple claim that American military intelligence operatives located the supposed stolen war loot in the Philippines and colluded with Emperor Hirohito and senior members of the Japanese government after World War II to keep its existence secret. The loot was supposedly used to finance covert American operations during the Cold War. Imelda Marcos claimed her husband's fabulous wealth was based mostly on Yamashita's gold.

But the vast majority of scholars discount any of these claims. No proof has ever been found of treasure buried or found anywhere in the Philippines.

quote:



Why did he bury treasure before WWII?


The conspiracy theory holds that the treasury was buried in the Philippines only in 1944, while World War II was raging. The theory contends that Yamashita plundered Malaya during 1942, looting cash, gold, jewellery and other valuables, with this loot initially concentrated in Singapore and then supposedly transported to the Philippines in 1944 when Yamashita took over command there. The theory holds that the war loot was buried and hidden to hide it from the Americans, who it was believed would soon overwhelm Japan. After a peace was signed, the conspirators would return and recover the treasure and utilise it to finance Japan's postwar recovery.

quote:



Who was Yamashita?


Tomoyuki Yamashita was a Japanese lieutenant general who, as commander of 25th Army, conquered Malaya and Singapore. In 1944 he was reassigned to command 14th Area Army in the Philippines. He was executed for war crimes in 1946.

(in reply to Footslogger)
Post #: 4
RE: OT: Yamashita - 4/1/2012 9:27:13 PM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 7598
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline
Yamashita's Gold is a legend like the legend of Eldorado. Most experts believe it is just fiction.

Yamashita did become known as the Tiger of Malaya. He led the forces that captured the Malaya Peninsula and Singapore. He later had a falling out with the high command and was sent to Manchuko for the rest of the war. He was tried and convicted of war crimes after the war for the behavior of his troops in the Malaya Campaign.

The legend is that his army gathered together a large treasure from looted banks, churches, etc. during the campaign. That treasure was collected in the Philippines awaiting shipment back to Japan. When US subs began preying on Japanese merchant ships, the treasure remained there and was eventually hidden somewhere in the PI. Legend has it that the treasure is still hidden somewhere in the PI. All the people who knew where it was either died during the war, or were executed after the war. The story is that there are tons of gold there.

There are some logical inconsistencies with the legend. If they were concerned with the safety of treasure ships back to Japan, they could have flown the treasure in numerous aircraft to Formosa, then mainland China, and finally to Japan. There also is not much evidence that there was much in the way of valuables in Malaya to loot. There was probably some small amounts of gold in churches, and larger banks may have had some in their vaults, but it wasn't exactly a storehouse of gold. There was also a pretty large gap between when the conquests in the SRA ended and when US subs started taking a serious toll of ships in the waters around Japan. The stories leave the question unanswered why the treasure wasn't transported in 1942 if it existed.

There may have been some small looted treasure from Japanese conquests, but we're not talking about anything approaching what the Spanish found in the New World, or any other huge treasure haul. It's also likely that whatever was looted was melted down, became other things, and is currently in circulation around the world.

Bill

_____________________________

WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 5
RE: OT: Yamashita - 4/1/2012 9:52:08 PM   
Torplexed


Posts: 215
Joined: 3/21/2002
From: The Pacific
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson
If they were concerned with the safety of treasure ships back to Japan, they could have flown the treasure in numerous aircraft to Formosa, then mainland China, and finally to Japan. There was also a pretty large gap between when the conquests in the SRA ended and when US subs started taking a serious toll of ships in the waters around Japan. The stories leave the question unanswered why the treasure wasn't transported in 1942 if it existed.


I also think the treasure is a myth. Then there's undersea transportation. How is it that the US submarine Trout managed to evacuate 20 tons of gold bars and silver pesos from the Philippine treasury in the chaotic opening period of the war. But, Japan with it's fleet of purpose built transport submarines couldn't do the same in 1944 with this supposed treasure?


< Message edited by Torplexed -- 4/1/2012 10:02:03 PM >


_____________________________


(in reply to wdolson)
Post #: 6
RE: OT: Yamashita - 4/1/2012 10:01:06 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 16034
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Footslogger

..... Who was Yamashita?

Warspite1

Terminus was wrong. I'm Yamashita....and so's my wife.


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty - Horatio Nelson 1805.




(in reply to Footslogger)
Post #: 7
RE: OT: Yamashita - 4/1/2012 11:02:15 PM   
jeffk3510


Posts: 3986
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Kansas
Status: offline
T...I just spit out my drink..haha

_____________________________

Follow our WiTPAE team PBEM game against bilbow and hartwig.modrow http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2965846&mpage=1&key=?

Follow my WITPAE PBEM game against Schanilec. http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3495605

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 8
RE: OT: Yamashita - 4/2/2012 6:10:43 AM   
el cid again

 

Posts: 14899
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

Yamashita's Gold is a legend like the legend of Eldorado. Most experts believe it is just fiction.

Yamashita did become known as the Tiger of Malaya. He led the forces that captured the Malaya Peninsula and Singapore. He later had a falling out with the high command and was sent to Manchuko for the rest of the war. He was tried and convicted of war crimes after the war for the behavior of his troops in the Malaya Campaign.

The legend is that his army gathered together a large treasure from looted banks, churches, etc. during the campaign. That treasure was collected in the Philippines awaiting shipment back to Japan. When US subs began preying on Japanese merchant ships, the treasure remained there and was eventually hidden somewhere in the PI. Legend has it that the treasure is still hidden somewhere in the PI. All the people who knew where it was either died during the war, or were executed after the war. The story is that there are tons of gold there.

There are some logical inconsistencies with the legend. If they were concerned with the safety of treasure ships back to Japan, they could have flown the treasure in numerous aircraft to Formosa, then mainland China, and finally to Japan. There also is not much evidence that there was much in the way of valuables in Malaya to loot. There was probably some small amounts of gold in churches, and larger banks may have had some in their vaults, but it wasn't exactly a storehouse of gold. There was also a pretty large gap between when the conquests in the SRA ended and when US subs started taking a serious toll of ships in the waters around Japan. The stories leave the question unanswered why the treasure wasn't transported in 1942 if it existed.

There may have been some small looted treasure from Japanese conquests, but we're not talking about anything approaching what the Spanish found in the New World, or any other huge treasure haul. It's also likely that whatever was looted was melted down, became other things, and is currently in circulation around the world.

Bill



General Yamashita was the only great captain the IJA produced in the WWII period. He is also sometimes called "the Rommel of Japan" because he was
popular with his enemies. This dated from an early period when he commanded a division in China, and surprised the Chinese with his conduct. In Malaya,
when his controversial chief of staff caught some looters, he dressed them - and their division commander - down in public - and administraed punishment
as we might - refusing his chief of staff's preference to shoot them. So his humanitarian principles cut both ways, for both sides.

Yamashita holds a unique status in US legal history. He was tried and convicted of war crimes by a peculiar military court appointed by Mac - one
that accepted hearsay evidence - and used an informer for the Japanese as its sole damning witness. Further, the US defense team proved he had
no power to control events because of actions we had taken - preventing him from having command and control except where he was at. They took
the case to the US Supreme Court. The court found it had no jurisdiction in a military case in a war zone during a shooting war - the CIC of the zone
had all power

BUT the court was so offended, they ruled on the case anyway - even though it had no effect - other than (a) to let Yamashita know while alive they
did not consider him a criminal and (b) to set the historical record strait. No other time in history has the court ruled on the merits of a case in which
it had no jurisdiction. And THIS is the SAME court that upheld Executive Order 1066 - twice - it was NOT pro Japanese (not even if US citizens)..

So lets not bad mouth the one commander that should be rendered honors. At least IMHO.

< Message edited by el cid again -- 4/2/2012 6:18:00 AM >

(in reply to wdolson)
Post #: 9
RE: OT: Yamashita - 4/2/2012 7:41:25 AM   
Gertrude73

 

Posts: 7
Joined: 3/26/2012
Status: offline
No. There wasn't any. Your mother.

(in reply to el cid again)
Post #: 10
RE: OT: Yamashita - 4/2/2012 8:49:42 AM   
CT Grognard

 

Posts: 693
Joined: 5/16/2010
From: Cape Town, South Africa
Status: offline
Yes, the "Tiger of Malaya".

He had the officer responsible for the Alexandra Hospital Massacre in Singapore executed, he also executed soldiers caught looting.

He fell out of favour and was sent to Manchukuo afterwards because he had referred to the local Malay population of Singapore as "citizens of the Empire of Japan" in a speech, which was considered humiliating by the Japanese government.

There is a lot of evidence to support that in 1945 he ordered complete withdrawal of all Japanese troops from Manila, but his orders were disobeyed by IJN marines who eventually carried out the Manila Massacre in February 1945.

When he surrendered in September 1945, the Allies had expected him to commit seppuku prior to capture, but Yamashita apparently refused to do so since he felt that if he did "someone else would have to take the blame".

The legal precedent is indeed interesting, and highly controversial. It set up the so-called "Yamashita Standard" - whereby Yamashita was guilty of war crimes due to command responsibility, since he unlawfully disregarded and failed to discharge his duty as a commander to control the acts of members of his command by permitting them to commit war crimes.

As Yamashita's chief counsel, Col. Harry E. clarke, Sr., said:

"The Accused is not charged with having done something or having failed to do something...American jurisprudence recognises no such principle so far as its own military personnel are concerned...No one would even suggest that the Commanding General of an American occupational force becomes a criminal every time an American soldier violates the law...one man is not held to answer for the crime of another."

(in reply to el cid again)
Post #: 11
RE: OT: Yamashita - 4/2/2012 6:08:45 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25219
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline
the hell with Yamashita's resume.

About that gold........after standing in line to get at the Lotto machine for 20 minutes while the two noncompoops in front of me each checked over 30 tickets EACH......i checked my one purchased MegaMillions ticket and found out that i was not destined to be a multi-millionaire.

So.....about that gold. I have a metal detector and a plane ticket ready. It has to be true.

(in reply to CT Grognard)
Post #: 12
RE: OT: Yamashita - 4/3/2012 12:14:08 AM   
Empire101


Posts: 1956
Joined: 5/20/2008
From: Coruscant
Status: offline
I'm with you. I've got the pedalo ready to get us there, a small bucket and spade, and a 10 man ration pack. We are bound to succeed

_____________________________

Our lives may be more boring than those who lived in apocalyptic times,
but being bored is greatly preferable to being prematurely dead because of some ideological fantasy.
- Michael Burleigh


(in reply to Nikademus)
Post #: 13
RE: OT: Yamashita - 4/3/2012 12:42:25 AM   
Terminus


Posts: 41088
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Footslogger

Termy...lets see those TOES!


If you insist!




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Footslogger)
Post #: 14
RE: OT: Yamashita - 4/3/2012 2:10:17 AM   
Captain Cruft


Posts: 3648
Joined: 3/17/2004
From: England
Status: offline
You don't need to invoke the ghosts of WWII to find gold in the Philippines.

It's one of the most mineral rich countries on the planet, yet due to the bizarre politics most of the stuff remains in the ground to this day. It is quite rare for a country to be in this position, most places manage to get things dug up whatever the political environment.

Not any kind of investment recommendation ...

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 15
RE: OT: Yamashita - 4/3/2012 4:54:21 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25219
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline
we'll bring Termy along as insurance.

If any extremists show up with hankerchiefs on....we'll throw em Termy and run with our ill gotten booty.

I always his ugly toe would come in handy some day.

even better than Indy shouting "CRYSTAL SKULL!!!!! CRYSTAL SKULL!!!!"

(in reply to Captain Cruft)
Post #: 16
RE: OT: Yamashita - 4/4/2012 12:56:12 AM   
Terminus


Posts: 41088
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline


_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Nikademus)
Post #: 17
RE: OT: Yamashita - 4/4/2012 6:55:14 PM   
Ranger5355

 

Posts: 447
Joined: 9/12/2007
From: Michigan
Status: online
I read a good book on this subject years ago. I believe it was called "The Emperor's General"
I can't remember the author.

(in reply to CT Grognard)
Post #: 18
RE: OT: Yamashita - 4/4/2012 7:27:43 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41088
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
Was it the novel by James Webb?

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Ranger5355)
Post #: 19
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> OT: Yamashita Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.090