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Dud rate "normally torpedoes"

 
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Dud rate "normally torpedoes" - 3/30/2012 5:27:13 PM   
LargeSlowTarget


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From: The deepest, darkest pit of hell
Status: offline 		In the editor there is the qualifier "Normally Torpedoes" next to the dud rate. What other uses except torpedo dud rate does the "normally" imply? Is it possible to set a dud rate for bombs and artillery shells, esp. for naval guns? Background of the question - many accounts of WWII sea battles mention quite a few hits which failed to explode, but I haven't seen any gunfire duds in the game.

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RE: Dud rate "normally torpedoes" - 3/31/2012 4:49:55 PM   
Shark7


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From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline 		Gunfire depends on the rounds fired though. AP rounds had hardened tips and were designed to knock holes in a ship. An AP round really can't be dud, it either hits or it doesn't.

HE rounds on the other hand to go boom and would be possible for a dud. Fuse failure, bad powder, etc.

Most ships of the era carried an equal number of both types. For game purposes I'm not sure that putting a dud rate in for the guns is such a good idea. The big guns (especially) don't hit often as it is.

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RE: Dud rate "normally torpedoes" - 3/31/2012 7:34:18 PM   
LargeSlowTarget


Posts: 2528
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: The deepest, darkest pit of hell
Status: offline 		AP shells for naval guns do contain explosives, although much less than HE rounds of the same size.

"Kinetic energy" shells (or more correctly rounds) without explosive charge in the shell were used in AT guns.

Example for the 16-inchers of the Iowa class:

explosive charge of AP Mark 8: 40.9 lbs. (18.55 kg)
explosive charge of HC ("high capacity" > HE) Mark 13 - 153.6 lbs. (69.67 kg)

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RE: Dud rate "normally torpedoes" - 4/1/2012 5:50:44 AM   
Shark7


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From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline 		Granted, you are right. However, an AP round will still do some damage even if its HE component fails. Especially the big guns. A 16" hole in your hull at the water line is a bad thing any way you look at it. And since generally (as best I understand it) the shell doesn't make a 16" hole, but rather knocks a chunk of the hull out, which in turn does additional internal damage.

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RE: Dud rate "normally torpedoes" - 4/4/2012 7:30:01 AM   
LargeSlowTarget


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From: The deepest, darkest pit of hell
Status: offline 		Granted that duds can cause some damage, but relatively minor compared to a shell that explodes - a ship hit only by duds usually survived.

My question remains unanswered - will the game engine factor a value entered in the "dud rate" for an artillery shell (or bomb), or does this only work for torps?

I am toying with the idea to increase the accuracy of naval guns (hoping for more hits) but to lower the effect and add a dud rate in order to compensate.

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RE: Dud rate "normally torpedoes" - 4/7/2012 7:05:34 AM   
inqistor


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Joined: 5/12/2010
Status: offline 		That is pretty easy to test, just set dud rate at 100% and simulate some battles

quote:

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

I am toying with the idea to increase the accuracy of naval guns (hoping for more hits) but to lower the effect and add a dud rate in order to compensate.


Have you thought about increasing ammo for guns, instead of accuracy, to achieve that? As a bonus that should also help with AA ammo experditure problem.

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RE: Dud rate "normally torpedoes" - 4/21/2012 9:36:13 PM   
topeverest

 

Posts: 1609
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Atlanta, GA - USA
Status: offline 		I tested this in one of my "empire is strong" mods, that exact tradeoff on large empire naval guns. I couldnt make it work well and abandoned the idea withing a few days. If you can make it work, I would love to know the settings.

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RE: Dud rate "normally torpedoes" - 4/22/2012 12:04:13 AM   
el cid again

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

Granted, you are right. However, an AP round will still do some damage even if its HE component fails. Especially the big guns. A 16" hole in your hull at the water line is a bad thing any way you look at it. And since generally (as best I understand it) the shell doesn't make a 16" hole, but rather knocks a chunk of the hull out, which in turn does additional internal damage.



For perspective, a 12 inch hole 10 feet below the waterline lets in more water than the pumps of the Enterprice (the nuclear powered one)
can remove! A ship has compartments to mitigate that, and damage control parties to try to plug the hole, or to try to create a "bubble"
above it providing floatation anyway. But a 16 inch hole is a really big deal - regardless - even if it wasn't actually bigger - which it might well be.

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 8
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