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RE: The power of Strings..thanks vic!

 
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RE: The power of Strings..thanks vic! - 9/17/2012 9:38:45 PM   
Josh

 

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That's a great looking map.. and it scares me already thinking of the amount of supply I need to keep my troops rolling... let alone the oil my Panzers will need LOL

By the way; mud in Spain  You're sure about that? I mean it can be awfully dry and hot there, matter of fact some parts are desert there.

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RE: The power of Strings..thanks vic! - 9/17/2012 10:57:16 PM   
bwheatley

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Josh

That's a great looking map.. and it scares me already thinking of the amount of supply I need to keep my troops rolling... let alone the oil my Panzers will need LOL

By the way; mud in Spain  You're sure about that? I mean it can be awfully dry and hot there, matter of fact some parts are desert there.


The first turn is in march. I'm going to start the turn the day after germany finishes off taking over czechoslovakia to allow a bit of different strategies for the start. I broke the weather zones out by area of map in streaks. So while it might not be 100% accurate i did do some abstractions based on almanac data. In may in the spain/italy/balkans zone there (all this data is on the google docs linked in this thread too) there is a 30% clear/50% mud/20% snow chance.

Also all the turns are only 2 days at the moment and i've included a weather forecast which should be right at least 65% of the time so you should be able to plan force displacements most of the time. :)

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RE: The power of Strings..thanks vic! - 9/17/2012 11:06:13 PM   
bwheatley

 

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One of the next and final parts of weather system is the sea weather..i want to include heavy seas as well to cause issues for ships.

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RE: The power of Strings..thanks vic! - 9/18/2012 3:24:39 PM   
Josh

 

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One big issue I have with ATG vanilla is the way Subs get exp. Only when they attack surface vessels do they get Exp. But then they are still at 40 Exp points, whereas the surface vessels get Exp much more easily by bombarding ground units from offshore. So you can have surface vessels at 80 Exp *before* the attack other vessels, not so for the subs.
Sooo would it be possible to give Subs Exp when they intercept supplies and troops? As indicated by the blue and brown circles on the map?

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RE: The power of Strings..thanks vic! - 9/18/2012 5:28:54 PM   
bwheatley

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Josh

One big issue I have with ATG vanilla is the way Subs get exp. Only when they attack surface vessels do they get Exp. But then they are still at 40 Exp points, whereas the surface vessels get Exp much more easily by bombarding ground units from offshore. So you can have surface vessels at 80 Exp *before* the attack other vessels, not so for the subs.
Sooo would it be possible to give Subs Exp when they intercept supplies and troops? As indicated by the blue and brown circles on the map?



Funny you mention that i added that to my game desion doc


quote:

Game Concepts


Lend lease and support
Soviets
via murmansk and persia & pacific
UK
US giving UK additional destroyers
Additional US DD escorting convoys
High Level Concepts
Disable strategic transfer of supply require it to be “shipped”
Track tonnage sank and supply stopped as metrics for UK to sue for peace


But yea i was actually going to play with the idea of NOT even allowing naval trasnfer of items and require them to be manually hauled via ships which gives teh subs actual things to try to sink.


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RE: The power of Strings..thanks vic! - 9/18/2012 11:25:33 PM   
bwheatley

 

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I'm trying to toy with the idea that supply takes raw materials to build or making it an sftype that doesn't show in the list that we can add to a boat and disembark. I'm just toying with the idea, worse case yea i can have a script that determines how much subs kill or at least over all supply killed to give all subs an xp boost.

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RE: The power of Strings..thanks vic! - 9/19/2012 1:33:23 PM   
Josh

 

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I was thinking 100 supply kills is 1 Exp point added.

"But yea i was actually going to play with the idea of NOT even allowing naval trasnfer of items and require them to be manually hauled via ships which gives teh subs actual things to try to sink"

Naval transfer or Strategic Transfer via cargoships in the transferring HQ, is also subject to sub/surface vessel intercept. Just try to send something overseas when your opponent has ships around. So in that case both in scenarios (supply/unit intercept *and* physical sinking of cargoships) would get the ships Exp points.

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RE: The power of Strings..thanks vic! - 9/21/2012 4:50:13 PM   
bwheatley

 

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Some of the new LocTypes


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RE: The power of Strings..thanks vic! - 9/21/2012 4:52:47 PM   
bwheatley

 

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Coal & Oil will also go from level 1-4.

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RE: The power of Strings..thanks vic! - 9/21/2012 6:04:38 PM   
mgaffn1

 

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Power plants, eh?
intriguing concept. Reminds me a little of the multiple resouce types in HOI2. Although some gamers don't like them, the addition of resources to ATG adds to the gameplay, especially for strategic level scenarios.

Impressive map - can't wait to see the end result!


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RE: The power of Strings..thanks vic! - 9/21/2012 6:21:09 PM   
Josh

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bwheatley

Coal & Oil will also go from level 1-4.


Nice, that would reflect the technology tree some other games have, as in how efficient a country can be digging up oil and coal.
I see you have a beautiful looking coalmine symbol, but the factory symbol... is not so eye candy I mean it maybe easy to discern on the map, but maybe it would be nice to have a nice looking factory symbol as well?? Although having said that, a grey/brown factory symbol on a grey city hmmmm.

Oh yeah maybe nitpicking here, not even worth mentioning, but some cities are spelled wrong.
Hannover with double 'n'
Osnabrück with a ' " '
Düsseldorf with a ' " '
Göttingen with a ' " '
So with a trema/Umlaut as the Germans say. Damn Germans with their archaic language I still have trouble writing it, or understanding the rules of "der, die und das"

Like I said not even worth mentioning, don't let it keep you from working on this magnificent map.

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RE: The power of Strings..thanks vic! - 9/21/2012 10:27:38 PM   
bwheatley

 

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Yea i know there are some people who don't like "logistics" but i do. :)
Though ernie talked me into adding a game varient that has the logistics disabled. So it should keep the other people happy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mgaffn1

Power plants, eh?
intriguing concept. Reminds me a little of the multiple resouce types in HOI2. Although some gamers don't like them, the addition of resources to ATG adds to the gameplay, especially for strategic level scenarios.

Impressive map - can't wait to see the end result!




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Post #: 102
RE: The power of Strings..thanks vic! - 9/21/2012 10:31:14 PM   
bwheatley

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Josh

Nice, that would reflect the technology tree some other games have, as in how efficient a country can be digging up oil and coal.
I see you have a beautiful looking coalmine symbol, but the factory symbol... is not so eye candy I mean it maybe easy to discern on the map, but maybe it would be nice to have a nice looking factory symbol as well?? Although having said that, a grey/brown factory symbol on a grey city hmmmm.

Oh yeah maybe nitpicking here, not even worth mentioning, but some cities are spelled wrong.
Hannover with double 'n'
Osnabrück with a ' " '
Düsseldorf with a ' " '
Göttingen with a ' " '
So with a trema/Umlaut as the Germans say. Damn Germans with their archaic language I still have trouble writing it, or understanding the rules of "der, die und das"

Like I said not even worth mentioning, don't let it keep you from working on this magnificent map.


Yea the names are what i got from different maps and i opted for the german version when possible. :) So yes it's nitpicking and while i agree it takes a bit to get myself over it i'm going to live with it. I do get what you mean though....in dc2 getting near rostov it's rostow in that game and kharkow instead of kharkov :)

I figure if i can live with it in DC2 it wont be so hard for others in WiE. Heh :)

With the factory symbol i just set it up as a natoicon and did and overlay over the city. I wanted some cities to be setup with production but i wanted people to know it's a city that has production since many of the cities will not have production. If you have an alternative idea for an icon let me know.


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RE: The power of Strings..thanks vic! - 9/21/2012 10:32:10 PM   
bwheatley

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mgaffn1

Power plants, eh?
intriguing concept. Reminds me a little of the multiple resouce types in HOI2. Although some gamers don't like them, the addition of resources to ATG adds to the gameplay, especially for strategic level scenarios.

Impressive map - can't wait to see the end result!



The precursors i have so far are in this design doc here.

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Post #: 104
RE: The power of Strings..thanks vic! - 9/22/2012 9:33:16 PM   
bwheatley

 

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Nice ok the first test worked fine. Oil, Fuel, Steel, Coal, Engines, Hull all come in as SFTYPES. Then you have to transport them to your capital. Then a new turn event will process them and add them to your national stockpile then it will send you a report. For germany it will be pretty easy i'm also looking into a way that strategic bombing can perhaps kill off trains via a "railyard" loctype

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RE: The power of Strings..thanks vic! - 9/23/2012 8:48:08 AM   
Josh

 

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You have to send a hull all the way to the capital? Just kidding, sounds great. How errr does the AI cope with that?

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RE: The power of Strings..thanks vic! - 9/23/2012 1:32:11 PM   
bwheatley

 

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Once i finish pbem setup i'll go in do some AI tweaking. It doesn't have any build type for precursors so i'll just have to artifically give them precursors every turn and they will just have to fight like they would on any other map.

well that might not be true i'll have to see how vic handles random games where ai have ore/oil.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Josh

You have to send a hull all the way to the capital? Just kidding, sounds great. How errr does the AI cope with that?



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RE: The power of Strings..thanks vic! - 9/23/2012 1:35:03 PM   
bwheatley

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Josh

You have to send a hull all the way to the capital? Just kidding, sounds great. How errr does the AI cope with that?


And yea i was thinking maybe send it to large cities for processing but the more i thought about it the more complex it got. v1 I'll keep it simple. I'm also just going to get everything to a masterfile state.
Then i plan to make different versions of the map too. Right now its 1938 the day after final czech annexation. But i'm thinking i can make a stock sept 1 1939 map. As well as an alternative universe map etc. :)

Once i get the econ system done completely the skys the limit. I'm sure it won't be everyones cup of tea but it will be mine. hehe ;) I'm also going to hamfist leaders in even though using dc2 engine woulde be better i'm not going to spend the time remaking the map for dc2 after all the effort i put into atg. ;)

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RE: The power of Strings..thanks vic! - 9/23/2012 2:50:15 PM   
bwheatley

 

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Fuel Refinery (Oil -> Fuel)
Engine Plant (Steel -> Engines)

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RE: The power of Strings..thanks vic! - 9/23/2012 4:11:50 PM   
bwheatley

 

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More factories

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Separating the man from the gear. - 2/20/2013 7:14:02 PM   
CSO_Talorgan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bwheatley

Fuel Refinery (Oil -> Fuel)
Engine Plant (Steel -> Engines)


Can this concept be adapted to affect the equipment of troops? So matching soldiers to small arms and not losing experience when they upgrade from say Springfields to Garands; or pilots who gain experience on Wildcats being re-equipped with Hellcats or Bearcats, again without loss of experience?

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RE: The power of Strings..thanks vic! - 2/22/2013 6:02:12 PM   
mgaffn1

 

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quote:

The precursors i have so far are in this design doc here.


I like where you are going with your research strings... this is an area of the game I have started dabbling in as well. Not as well thought out as your version, though.

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RE: Separating the man from the gear. - 1/30/2014 6:07:52 AM   
bwheatley

 

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I haven't figured out a way to code that portion yet.

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RE: Separating the man from the gear. - 2/1/2014 7:29:58 PM   
bwheatley

 

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Now that my new baby daughter hit 4 months old I'm finally back having some time to game. I started playing WITE and quickly got irritated about all the design decisions that drive me crazy. In summary week-long turns w/o the ability to counter anything, so you just open the turn to see giant encirclement. It's almost like you're being forced to re-live history because you don't get the opportunity to retreat. Then the soldiers become weak wrist-ed lumps of spaghetti w/o the ability to fight. Then the lack of turn replay to see how everything went down bugs me because i prefer to see how my opponent starts a turn to get into their head.

Anyway it reminded me that I needed to get my ass back into gear to work on finishing up WiE. Ernie has been a big help as well to get the leaders working inside ATG like DC2 has.

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RE: Separating the man from the gear. - 6/19/2014 8:31:50 PM   
bwheatley

 

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I ended up removing Electricity & Coal from the game. It is more of a pita then an immersive part of the gameplay.

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RE: Separating the man from the gear. - 6/21/2014 10:43:49 AM   
bwheatley

 

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Poland north.




Attachment (1)

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RE: Separating the man from the gear. - 6/21/2014 12:23:34 PM   
cpdeyoung


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That looks very good.

What a wonderful engine ATG is.

Chuck

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RE: Separating the man from the gear. - 6/21/2014 7:28:55 PM   
bwheatley

 

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Thank you for the kind words Chuck!

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RE: Separating the man from the gear. - 6/22/2014 4:38:51 AM   
Jeffrey H.


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It's an interesting scale, it will be good if it ever gets off the ground as a playable mod/scen.



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RE: Separating the man from the gear. - 6/24/2014 8:28:32 PM   
bwheatley

 

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Thanks Jeff!

Ernie & I are starting to playtest Fall Weiss at least with ground units & authentic OOB's.

I got stumped for awhile with a hard to debug code problem that was causing a crash. W/o proper tools I said **** it for awhile instead of fixing it. With Ernies gentle encouragement i figured out what the issue was for the most part even if not the solution.

Yea so one of my core design principles is: FUN. It's not to be super accurate and I think what it will have going for it over things like WITE are that the combat engine "feels" (to me at least) better. No getting cut off in a weeklong turn and having no recourse. God that drives me crazy even thinking about it. :)

Btw if any of you guys want to help me test as i get closer i'd encourage it. My skype is bwheatley.


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