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RE: War In Europe - 3/31/2012 2:29:28 AM   
Bombur

 

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I was thinking that, maybe, the tech tree and SFT list we created for the GD 1938 could be useful for your scenario. I mean, if you want to create custom units and other things, it could be a good template....

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Post #: 31
RE: War In Europe - 3/31/2012 6:31:27 PM   
Ormand

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H.

Hrrm, I wonder if I could just take one of these:

http://www.amazon.com/Replogle-Globes-Inflatable-Topographical-Diameter/dp/B0006O0C2G/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1333046833&sr=8-2-fkmr0

And cut it up and lay it flat, traspose or trace the region of interest on a flat sheet of paper, then drop a hex grid on the sheet of paper ?

Hrrmm...




This obviously wouldn't work either. This is an old problem, and there is a mathematical theorem proving that you cannot "map" the surface of a curved space into a flat 2-dimensional space that is scale preserving. Thus, ALL maps have errors, they just get to be noticeable when the curvature is larger. That said, this is a bit interesting because I doubt that globe is printed when it is inflated (maybe so). But, if you tried to lay the globe flat, obviously you would have to cut the poles and there would be gaps in the projection.

That globe is nice, but ten grand!

This is an interesting problem for the maps. Basically, the issue is that the scale is changing as you move north. Thus, northern operations would be significantly altered relative to those further south. Your ships can't cover the same actual distance since they have to traverse more hexes. You can actually fix this North-South by manually making a map where the distance between important landmarks is correct North-South. You can do this because you can just place things in the map (manually). But, you can't do anything about the East-West error. How far East or West should Narvik go relative to Copenhagen depends on a compromise. The same for coasts, etc. The map will look a little odd relative to what we are used to, but would work. And moving East-West between points will take much longer than it should.

One way to get around this (but it has another problem) is to clone the terrains you are using up north, and edit the AP costs for movement. This way, as you go further north you compensate for the shifting scale by allowing troops to transverse more hexes. You don't have to change the image or anything, just clone them and edit their attributes, and use them to fill in the map up there. You might have to do this twice though in order to soften the transition. The problem of course is that you need more troops to cover the same area.

Either way, you have work to do.

p.s. is there anyway to have a revolution and stop these stupid advertisements popping up based on certain keywords, like "order"? I hate these things.

< Message edited by Ormand -- 3/31/2012 6:33:52 PM >

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Post #: 32
RE: War In Europe - 4/3/2012 3:34:02 AM   
AdamRinkleff

 

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I there any way to make a map bigger than 200 hexes?

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Post #: 33
RE: War In Europe - 4/3/2012 7:55:28 PM   
Jeffrey H.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ormand

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H.

Hrrm, I wonder if I could just take one of these:

http://www.amazon.com/Replogle-Globes-Inflatable-Topographical-Diameter/dp/B0006O0C2G/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1333046833&sr=8-2-fkmr0

And cut it up and lay it flat, traspose or trace the region of interest on a flat sheet of paper, then drop a hex grid on the sheet of paper ?

Hrrmm...




This obviously wouldn't work either. This is an old problem, and there is a mathematical theorem proving that you cannot "map" the surface of a curved space into a flat 2-dimensional space that is scale preserving. Thus, ALL maps have errors, they just get to be noticeable when the curvature is larger. That said, this is a bit interesting because I doubt that globe is printed when it is inflated (maybe so). But, if you tried to lay the globe flat, obviously you would have to cut the poles and there would be gaps in the projection.

That globe is nice, but ten grand!

This is an interesting problem for the maps. Basically, the issue is that the scale is changing as you move north. Thus, northern operations would be significantly altered relative to those further south. Your ships can't cover the same actual distance since they have to traverse more hexes. You can actually fix this North-South by manually making a map where the distance between important landmarks is correct North-South. You can do this because you can just place things in the map (manually). But, you can't do anything about the East-West error. How far East or West should Narvik go relative to Copenhagen depends on a compromise. The same for coasts, etc. The map will look a little odd relative to what we are used to, but would work. And moving East-West between points will take much longer than it should.

One way to get around this (but it has another problem) is to clone the terrains you are using up north, and edit the AP costs for movement. This way, as you go further north you compensate for the shifting scale by allowing troops to transverse more hexes. You don't have to change the image or anything, just clone them and edit their attributes, and use them to fill in the map up there. You might have to do this twice though in order to soften the transition. The problem of course is that you need more troops to cover the same area.

Either way, you have work to do.

p.s. is there anyway to have a revolution and stop these stupid advertisements popping up based on certain keywords, like "order"? I hate these things.


I think hexes are simply inadequate at these map scales. Smaller scales without curvature effects, yes, but at "global' scales no. Ultimately, movement across the surface of a sphere is a simple problem but not one that is solveable by hexes or even distorted squares, unless each type of square has a different movement cost, which puts us right back to distortions.

The real solution is linear movement rates applied to linear paths on the surface of the sphere. With mods for terrain and any other desired effects.




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Post #: 34
RE: War In Europe - 4/4/2012 2:20:29 AM   
bwheatley

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bombur

I was thinking that, maybe, the tech tree and SFT list we created for the GD 1938 could be useful for your scenario. I mean, if you want to create custom units and other things, it could be a good template....



COol thanks! with the import tools of ATG it won't be a nightmare now :)


Still making rivers..it's taken a long time and i'm sure it's not 100% correct. It's hard to find good relief maps.

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Post #: 35
RE: War In Europe - 4/4/2012 2:24:33 AM   
bwheatley

 

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Ya once i finish the map i'll look and see about making northern_XYZ lt's. That would allow more movement over them.

I might not even mess with it but i will put this up for someone else to if they were interested. I mean it's been aaa week and a half and i don't even have all rivers done yet. i'm just into the soviet union now. lol

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Post #: 36
RE: War In Europe - 4/6/2012 12:40:21 AM   
Bombur

 

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quote:


COol thanks! with the import tools of ATG it won't be a nightmare now :)


If you interested, I could make the changes for you once your map is ready.


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Post #: 37
RE: War In Europe - 8/9/2012 6:00:12 AM   
bwheatley

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bombur



quote:


COol thanks! with the import tools of ATG it won't be a nightmare now :)


If you interested, I could make the changes for you once your map is ready.




Actually after dicking with it awhile it looks like the import tools would be ok.


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Post #: 38
RE: War In Europe - 8/9/2012 7:37:15 AM   
bwheatley

 

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Now the slow tedious process of getting rivers done. Lordy..does anyone have a good river reference? i've seen a few online that are ok but it's hard to get the rivers to go exactly where they are supposed to.
But we did get all the countries done along with a ton of cities in said countries. :)



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Post #: 39
RE: War In Europe - 8/9/2012 7:42:38 AM   
bwheatley

 

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Also i've put where i've gotten so far online in case anyone else wants to play with it.
It doesn't have the overlay loaded because eventually you 9/10 times get the game to crash because it has to use so much memory to load an image that size.

wite_map_inprogress

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Post #: 40
RE: War In Europe - 8/9/2012 10:03:59 AM   
Josh

 

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Placing rivers on game maps has *always* been difficult and a subject of much discussion, as you can see in the WiF subforum. Me, I'm already happy when it's more or less placed properly, give or take a hex. 

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Post #: 41
RE: War In Europe - 8/9/2012 10:21:51 AM   
ernieschwitz

 

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Just downloaded the map. Nicely done. It´s hard to make a map thats that big (250x250 hexes). My hat goes off to you.

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Post #: 42
RE: War In Europe - 8/9/2012 3:29:58 PM   
bwheatley

 

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Ya after the hiatus i'm back to try to finish it. But i figured i'd put what i had up in case i had to bail again. Getting 1939 borders was a pita too lol.

I'll try to get rivers squared away in the next few days.

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Post #: 43
RE: War In Europe - 8/9/2012 4:12:52 PM   
ernieschwitz

 

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Tell me about it.. Getting 1938 borders in GD 1938, was hard too... especially since i changed the starting date more than once. Also the Japanese starting position is something that had to be abstracted pretty much from the data about which cities they had taken and when...

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Post #: 44
RE: War In Europe - 8/10/2012 6:51:11 AM   
bwheatley

 

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I think i have most of the city names right an din the right countries but i'm sure i goofed some. Also you then had to determine which spelling? Like in DC2 now vic uses a different spelling for things notably VOLGA river and such. :) So that was a lot of fun.

Also determining the polish name (poland now) vs the prussian name back in 1939. Lord that was a pita lol.

Hope to make good progress on it this weekend it would be a fun scenario.

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Post #: 45
RE: War In Europe - 8/18/2012 11:06:38 AM   
bwheatley

 

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I have the major rivers done and most of the mountains.

I also dropped 20 hexes off the left (ocean). And 40 hexes off the top because of map distortion. That means there are some things about norway,sweden that are no longer to scale properly.

Also i had to make murmansk not be in scale to arkangel. But also cutting off those 15,000 hexes has helped speed up working with the map as well. But other then the fudging to the top the rest of the map is to scale.



I'm also sure the rivers and terrain is not 100% perfect but i've put enough time into it that i'm happy with it. I've uploaded the map to the advanced tactics site so feel free to fix the map and work on it. But I'd ask if you update it please send me a copy so i can replace what's online. I'm going to leave this up as just a base map for anyone to use. Then after the map is done i'll make a new scenario for 'War In Europe'.

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Post #: 46
RE: War In Europe - 8/18/2012 11:18:16 AM   
bwheatley

 

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UK


France


NA


Germany


Eygpt


Middle East


Denmark


USSR


Murmansk



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Post #: 47
RE: War In Europe - 8/18/2012 11:14:36 PM   
bwheatley

 

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I tweaked low mountains & light forests & plains a bit to make sure there was some variety in hexes.



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Post #: 48
RE: War In Europe - 8/18/2012 11:23:10 PM   
bwheatley

 

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New screenies

France with terrain


Germany


Italy & Yugoslavia


Egypt


Poland & Pripet Marsh


Leningrad


Moscow


Rostov/Stalingrad


Caucasas


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Post #: 49
RE: War In Europe - 8/18/2012 11:47:37 PM   
bwheatley

 

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New cities



I jacked it from DC2 :)

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RE: War In Europe - 8/19/2012 12:07:00 AM   
ernieschwitz

 

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Like i told you elsewhere... don´t like em, looks like the borg invaded france ;)

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Post #: 51
RE: War In Europe - 8/19/2012 10:00:38 AM   
bwheatley

 

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OK roads done...

I have updated the file on the AT Community Site

I know i have to clean up terrain on norway,sweden,finland but for now i think i made pretty awesome progress lol.

I jacked some graphics from DC2. I also jacked the way vic did dual road/rail as well.

UK


France

Double Road


Germany


Poland & Pripet Marsh


Denmark


USSR


Leningrad
I set it up to be similar to WITE where hopefully you can keep supply going to leningrad.


South


Egypt




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Post #: 52
RE: War In Europe - 8/19/2012 10:59:53 AM   
bwheatley

 

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Trying to decide if i want to use bombur mod. :) It has so much and it will save a lot of time..but it has so much and maybe too much for what i'm going with for WiE. :)

Maybe i'll give it a shot..maybe i'll cherry pick still talking it through.

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Post #: 53
RE: War In Europe - 8/26/2012 10:50:34 PM   
bwheatley

 

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Here is the full map?



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Post #: 54
RE: War In Europe - 8/26/2012 11:07:33 PM   
bwheatley

 

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Download the image here. (click save as)

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Post #: 55
RE: War In Europe - 8/27/2012 1:26:09 AM   
Captain Cruft


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Wow!

How many hexes is it?

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RE: War In Europe - 8/27/2012 1:36:23 AM   
bwheatley

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft

Wow!

How many hexes is it?

Originally 62500. But Norway Finland Sweden were out of proportion. So I tweaked a bit and took off 500 from west ocean then 10000 from north.

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Post #: 57
RE: War In Europe - 8/27/2012 4:28:11 AM   
bwheatley

 

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Here are the units i'm starting with: Credit where it's due i snagged most of the ideas from GD 1938 and bombur's mod. I added Mountain troops because everyone forgets those poor guys. :)

I still probably do similar to WaW mod and add specific equipment for regimes down the road.
I am also going to have specific special people like we did in WaW too.

US - USMC
UK - Royal Marines
USSR - NKVD
Germany - SS
Italy - Italian Marines
Japan - SNLF (Not in this mod but just fyi for what i did with waw)





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Post #: 58
RE: War In Europe - 8/27/2012 8:56:46 AM   
LazyBoy

 

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That map is fantastic, great effort.

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Post #: 59
RE: War In Europe - 8/27/2012 1:31:47 PM   
bwheatley

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LazyBoy

That map is fantastic, great effort.



Thanks it's on the Advanced Tactics site as well so you can d/l and use/modify as you like. I still have to double back and clear up a few flaws but for now it's low on the list.

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