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RE: 41-45GC GLVACA (Sov) v SJ80 (Axis) - NO SJ80

 
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RE: 41-45GC GLVACA (Sov) v SJ80 (Axis) - NO SJ80 - 4/8/2012 1:52:27 PM   
glvaca

 

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The rest of the front basically stays static with one exception. Up North, I decide to start a counter offensive. I have two main reasons
1. Test his strength and reaction.
2. Re-capture the rail line which links the net to Kalinin. I have major plans in that direction, having a functioning rail line close by will be paramount to success.

NW Front's 11th and 27th Armies are massively reinforced with as many rested and refitted Divs as I can find.
5th Airborn Corps is transformed into an semi "armoured" Corps and has 4 armoured brigades, under Rybalko, attached.
The going is easy as he fails to grasp the importance of this RR for now.
At the same time, 49th Army (previously in reserve) is railed to an advantageous position and then moves overland in the direction of Torzhok. 32nd Army (also of Kalinin Front) is reinforced.

My plans for the Blizzard are slowly being put into motion.




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RE: 41-45GC GLVACA (Sov) v SJ80 (Axis) - NO SJ80 - 4/8/2012 1:56:33 PM   
glvaca

 

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In the Center, I just shuffle some divsions around in Bryansk Front area. I'm going to get beaten up some more but there's nothing I can do but take it like a man
After the shock of how easy it is to capture those city hexes, I move in another Siberian division into the Moscow hex. The combined strength is 150 CV in a lvl 3 hex. Each division belongs to a different Army with high initiative ratings (one 7, 2x 6, with Zukov backing them up. All 3 armies have several strong divisions in reserve.

In addition, I find this in the manual:
15.5.3.1. DEFENSIVE RESERVE UNITS COMMITMENT TO CITY AND URBAN HEXES
There are special rules regarding defending unit’s ability to react from reserve into a battle in
a city, light urban or heavy urban hex. Any reserve unit within 2 hexes of a battle in a city or
urban hex that can trace it’s way to the hex and has at least one movement point remaining
may be committed from reserve even if the number of MPs to reach the battle exceed the
number the unit has remaining. The unit is also exempt from the normal distance check. If the
unit commits to the battle, it will expend the normal cost to commit from reserve, but if it is
more than the remaining MPs of the unit, the unit will be reduced to zero MPs. Units can never
be adjacent to an enemy unit to react in from reserve and must still pass a leader initiative
roll to be committed. In addition, the normal Die(18) die roll used to compare against number
of units committed is changed to Die(36) for light-urban and Die(72) for heavy-urban (instead
of Die(18)).

I'm thinking, let him come!




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RE: 41-45GC GLVACA (Sov) v SJ80 (Axis) - NO SJ80 - 4/8/2012 2:01:16 PM   
glvaca

 

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TURN 23

Up North he counter attacks the lead divisions. But the times are changing...




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RE: 41-45GC GLVACA (Sov) v SJ80 (Axis) - NO SJ80 - 4/8/2012 2:10:42 PM   
glvaca

 

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In the center, what I considered impossible has happened. The Moscow hex is lost and it only took 2 assaults...
Again, all industry goes with it.

In neither attacks on Moscow reserve(s) are comitted.
The attack on the hex just East of Moscow, sees the commitment of one division.

In the 2 attacks against the Bryansk front (blue), no reserves commit.




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< Message edited by glvaca -- 4/8/2012 2:16:51 PM >

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RE: 41-45GC GLVACA (Sov) v SJ80 (Axis) - NO SJ80 - 4/8/2012 2:16:25 PM   
glvaca

 

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To my surprise, he pushes his infantry divisions to the extreme length of their supply lines and attacks 26th Army with a series of hasties & deliberates. I'm thinking, by God, haven't you got enough?





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RE: 41-45GC GLVACA (Sov) v SJ80 (Axis) - NO SJ80 - 4/8/2012 2:20:54 PM   
glvaca

 

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In the North, for the first time in many turns, I hit back and force him to retreat but suffer heavy losses for the privilledge (3500 versus 650). Still, the point has been made, watch out, I'm coming...

To the right you can see 8th Army, pulled out of the line around Moscow, on rails to receive a final breather before being sent to the West.




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< Message edited by glvaca -- 4/11/2012 7:31:47 AM >

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RE: 41-45GC GLVACA (Sov) v SJ80 (Axis) - NO SJ80 - 4/8/2012 2:26:21 PM   
glvaca

 

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To the South of Moscow, I'm finally plugging the gap between Moscow and Voronezh. N-Caucassus MD is railed over there together with 40th Army. 1 Shock is scheduled to be attached to N-C Front and will get 4 Cav Corps, the divisions of which are already assembling.

Another interesting thing to note is the unit in the red circle bottum SS. He has not made a move against Voronezh during the Snow but still, just to keep me on my toes, he leaves a Infantry division next to it so I can't rail anything out. This is obviously annoying as it pins me to the defensive till the last. Which is exactly why he is doing it...






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< Message edited by glvaca -- 4/8/2012 7:06:59 PM >

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RE: 41-45GC GLVACA (Sov) v SJ80 (Axis) - NO SJ80 - 4/8/2012 2:35:42 PM   
glvaca

 

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In the South I launch my Blizzard offensive 2 turns to soon. I just can't wait, I've had enough.
2 attacks are launched and successful.The blue circle is about 1500 vs 1000 (sov-Axis) losses. These divisions are SP40 and they look worn down.

The red circle is paid in full (4500 vs 1500).
Interestingly, his line just above the attack seems to consist of breakdowns. Hmmm.

I'm sure he'll counter attack but I'll take it, one more time before Blizzard.




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< Message edited by glvaca -- 4/8/2012 2:43:20 PM >

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RE: 41-45GC GLVACA (Sov) v SJ80 (Axis) - NO SJ80 - 4/8/2012 2:37:43 PM   
glvaca

 

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Whole front overview turn 23:





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RE: 41-45GC GLVACA (Sov) v SJ80 (Axis) - NO SJ80 - 4/8/2012 2:52:06 PM   
gids

 

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good luck :)

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RE: 41-45GC GLVACA (Sov) v SJ80 (Axis) - NO SJ80 - 4/8/2012 4:36:22 PM   
M60A3TTS

 

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Note the fact that in the titanic battle for Moscow, not a single Soviet airplane was to be seen. Not so much as an I-153. Nothing.

< Message edited by M60A3TTS -- 4/8/2012 9:13:30 PM >

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RE: 41-45GC GLVACA (Sov) v SJ80 (Axis) - NO SJ80 - 4/8/2012 5:24:53 PM   
glvaca

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gids

good luck :)


Thanks!

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RE: 41-45GC GLVACA (Sov) v SJ80 (Axis) - NO SJ80 - 4/8/2012 5:25:57 PM   
glvaca

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

Note the fact that in the titanic battle for the Moscow, not a single Soviet airplane was to be seen. Not so much as an I-153. Nothing.


Yup, I had noticed this as well. Not that I have those old Biplanes flying anymore. All front line Fighters have been upgraded to Yak-1, Mig3, Lagg's or Lend-lease. And plenty are in easy reach, with the best leaders available.

< Message edited by glvaca -- 4/8/2012 5:26:22 PM >

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RE: 41-45GC GLVACA (Sov) v SJ80 (Axis) - NO SJ80 - 4/8/2012 5:29:48 PM   
glvaca

 

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TURN 24
Final turn before Blizzard. North Close up.

Just to show who's boss he counter attacks where he can. Several divisions arrive to help out, which I assume must be part from his reserve. Good.
I suffer moderate losses and RR repair of the 4 broken hexes has not yet started. I think he probably realized the importance afterall.
Still, it only goes to show that Sebastian will not give anything for free. Attacking to the last!




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RE: 41-45GC GLVACA (Sov) v SJ80 (Axis) - NO SJ80 - 4/8/2012 5:37:04 PM   
glvaca

 

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Center, as the final act in the failed defense of Moscow, he pushes out the defenders of the hex East of Moscow after two failed attempts, to set the record straight. 4550 Russians versus 2800 Germans are lost. One division comes out reserve but fails to have an impact.
Further down I lose another hex from the Bryansk front, but obviously, any attack made here (and elsewhere) is to damage me as much as possible and not to capture terrain. Sebastian also makes a hint after the capture of Moscow about Russian morale and asks: "where is Stalin?". To which I reply: "Stalin's sulking in the Urals, that's why I am in charge." Sebastian is a very civil opponent so don't misinterpret this little psy-war going on from time to time.






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< Message edited by glvaca -- 4/8/2012 7:03:41 PM >

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RE: 41-45GC GLVACA (Sov) v SJ80 (Axis) - NO SJ80 - 4/8/2012 5:39:30 PM   
glvaca

 

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Further down, he goes on a veritable hasty attack frenzy! Like a monster that knows he will be starved of his favorite dish for a long time and let's himself go one last time. He truely is insatiable.




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RE: 41-45GC GLVACA (Sov) v SJ80 (Axis) - NO SJ80 - 4/8/2012 5:41:54 PM   
glvaca

 

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In the South, his counter attacks are more limited but notheless cause some moderate damage. At the same time he falls back a little bit to the West, but he can't have gone far, which is exactly what I want.




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RE: 41-45GC GLVACA (Sov) v SJ80 (Axis) - NO SJ80 - 4/8/2012 6:30:05 PM   
sillyflower


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AFV

Deleted, because I am stupid, lol.


A genuinely stupid person would not have deleted this


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Post: I am always fearful that when I put this game down on the table and people see the box-art they will think I am some kind of neo-Nazi

Reply: They already know you're a gamer. What other shame can possibly compare?

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RE: 41-45GC GLVACA (Sov) v SJ80 (Axis) - NO SJ80 - 4/8/2012 6:38:20 PM   
sillyflower


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quote:

ORIGINAL: glvaca

Sebastian is a very civil opponent so don't misinterpret this little psy-war going on from time to time.



Never underestimate the psychological metagame. Polite people are usually better at it

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Post: I am always fearful that when I put this game down on the table and people see the box-art they will think I am some kind of neo-Nazi

Reply: They already know you're a gamer. What other shame can possibly compare?

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RE: 41-45GC GLVACA (Sov) v SJ80 (Axis) - NO SJ80 - 4/11/2012 4:57:11 PM   
glvaca

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sillyflower


quote:

ORIGINAL: glvaca

Sebastian is a very civil opponent so don't misinterpret this little psy-war going on from time to time.



Never underestimate the psychological metagame. Polite people are usually better at it


quite true!

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RE: 41-45GC GLVACA (Sov) v SJ80 (Axis) - NO SJ80 - 4/11/2012 10:30:49 PM   
glvaca

 

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THE BLIZZARD PLAN

It should be no surprise the blizzard plan has Moscow as the main objective and, worthy of note, resembles what actually happened to a large degree, although obviously Moscow was held historically.
Perhaps before we go further, a small recap of the Mud and Snow turns.

During mud I almost completely reorganized the red airforce and to a large extend my army.
Each Front now has 4 airbases. 2 Fighter and 2 ground attack. Most bombers are concentrated with the Bak commands which have most of the excess airbases. This leaves 68 CP per Front for ground units. Each front has (or will get) 4 armies and when possible an Airborn Corps with 8 armoured brigades attached. The best leaders available are assigned to the most important Armies and Air commands.

I seriously underestimated the power of the German assault again. I never really considered that a head-on assault versus Moscow would be really possible. So I concentrated most of my efforts on guarding the flanks and avoid Moscow from being cut off. And off course, he went head-on.
A major dissapointment is the combat in the final Moscow hex. 3 strong divisions, 150CV total, best leaders available, tons of reserves and still I lose it quite easily. I need riffle Corps!

My industry has taken a major hit over the summer and I'm down too 294 ARM factories. I lost half my IL2 production and other less important fighters, like mig3 and Pe3. But also 7 cap of the important IL4's of which I'm already low. Luckily, I have plenty of DB3's in the pool...
Remarkably (and I do not know how I've done it) I still have around 300k of ARMs in the pool.

So, overall, I failed to achieve my main objective of holding Moscow in 1941, eventhough I put virtually everything in the defense, to the cost of the other fronts. What's more, he did it by sheer brute force, no encriclements in the final stages, just a headon bloodbath. But there is a bright side to all this as well, as I hoped, he totally committed to the Moscow assault and is now way past the point that he is going to give it up without a fight. Which in turn means, he can't run away and must fight not only in the center, for the city, but also on it's flanks, were he is not dugin at all. Afterall, you can't constantly move around and hit my weak units and at the same time digin. A lesson he may learn someday.

Regarding my army, it has suffered serious losses, but with losses below 3 million I can't complain. Still, many divisions are below strength and many more are low on morale and experience. During mud, I have been railing divisions out and in of the front line for short periods of rest, mainly to recover morale. Just 2 turns can get you 4 points, which is worth it.

As I've shown, Sebastian is unbelievably aggressive, but I think he made a serious error in pushing me to the last. His forces on the flanks must be weak from constant combat far ahead of their supply source and on the flanks is exactly where I intend to hit him. The down side of starting on the flanks, is the distance I must bridge before I can actually start the envollopment maneuvre. This is a serious dissadvantage and it remains to be seen whether I can advance fast enough to be able to complete the final act or, his strategy of pushing me back as far as posssible to the last will prove the right one.

His final positions before Moscow are just not attackable. If he serious believes I will willingly hit my head against that brick wall, he's going to have the surprise of his life. As the below picture shows (red arrows are major assaults, blue secondary assaults), just like historical, the aim is to achieve a massive envellopment of the best part of Armee Group Center. Obviously, I don't expect he's actually going to allow his units to be pocketted. Probably, only Hitler or Stalin were that dumb. But, if the treath alone forces him to give up Moscow, that is fine by me.

The second major geographical objective I have is to recapture Stalino and adjacent cities. Kharkov would be nice, but defensible terrain further East is also good. Kursk & Gomel should fall, Bryansk is just a big bonus.

Unfortunately the big fight for Moscow and the need to strongly defend Voronezh (my only 2 remaining IL2 factories are there) has prevented me from redeploying as much as I would have liked to prepare for Blizzard. Many divisions are in need for some rest & refit but are going to get none.

To the North on my right flank, the plan is to reinforce NW, Kalinin and Volkhov Fronts. They will attack from the Klinin area and further West in the direction of Rhzev and, if possible, towards Vyazma.
NW front is still undermanned but has received many fresh reinforcements to capture the vital RR link to Kalinin so is in pretty good shape.
Kalinin front is also pretty fresh as it has been in the quiet spot of the front.
Voronzeh Front has only just activated and is virtually empty although it has received three airbases. It will feature a shock Cavalry army, which isn't here yet, and several other armies which I must start putting together during operations. All-in-all, NW & Kalinin fronts will be ready to go immediately, Volkhov front will reinforce the drive at the spot where chances of success seem best while the offensive is ongoing.

From the South, North-Caucassus, Western and Bryansk Fronts are forming the left pincer, attack through Kaluga and on to Vyazma. Of the just named fronts, only the Western front is really reasonably up to strength, but even those divisions are averaging only around 80% of TOE. In addition Western Front Armies need to be disengaged from just before Moscow and moved around the flank before they can get to the action.
Bryansk Front just had a beating during Snow and needs some refit of about 40% of it's divisions. I don't really have fresh divisions to spare with all the other demands currently.
N-Caucassus is still in the process of being assembled and is rather weak but I'll poor in more resources once they become available. N-C Front does have 1st Shock Army attached with 4 Cav Corps and I'm hoping they can move the advance along as fast as possible and capture as much terrain as I can in a hurry.

Further South, the Armies previously defending Voronezh will push towards Orel and Kursk, and further if possible. These are ok Armies strength-wise, but are low on morale and experience and have been thrown together under the stress of combat. We'll see if they can achieve anything of use.





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< Message edited by glvaca -- 4/12/2012 6:51:44 AM >

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RE: 41-45GC GLVACA (Sov) v SJ80 (Axis) - NO SJ80 - 4/11/2012 10:43:36 PM   
glvaca

 

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Further South, the Armies previously defending Voronezh will push towards Orel and Kursk, and further if possible. These are ok Armies strength-wise, but are low on morale and experience and have been thrown together under the stress of combat. We'll see if they can achieve anything of use.

To the South Stalino, my second main objective, is the target of 2 Armies of the Caucassus, the Southern and the South Western Fronts. Although the latter will also push towards Kharkov, together with the Armies from Voronezh. IT all depends where he plans on falling back, and/or fight.
SW Front is undermanned and not really of high quality but has been on refit for the last few turns. It's 12th Army is turned into a Cav Army with 4 Cav Corps. They are concentrated on the RR towards Boguchar.
Southern Front lacks an Army (it will receive a Shock Army when available) but has 2 of the strongest Armies attached.
Caucassus Front, only has 2 Armies participating in the offensive (2 Armies are defending the Crimea) but these are also of good to very good quality and morale, having been out of the action for several weeks and rest & refit from the front lines during Mud.

The main target as said is Stalino and it seems SJ80 has prepared mulitple defensive lines to protect it and delay my advance. Fortunately, I was able to steal 2 turns which I hope will pay dividends. Purely distance wise, this should certainly be achievable. The plan is to work around his left wing by SW & S Fronts, while Caucassus Front encircles from the his right. Again, just like Moscow, I don't expect to actually make a big encirclement but rather force him to extend the flanks and thus weaken his center. In doing so, I hope, he will not be strong enough to prevent me from advancing, but that all needs to be seen. Maybe I'm just miscalculating by a long shot?

IF I do achieve my primary objectives, I will try to push forward as far as possible to have a some terrain to fall back on come March. Currently, I intend to hold what I get back but I will try to judge the situation come February and if necessary I will give up terrain, eventhough grudgingly.

To finish, this is my first Blizzard where I actually get to fight so this is new experience for me but I think I'm as ready as I'm going to be. I'm yearning to strike, to inflict pain and destruction on those Grey and Black counters that have molested me for so long. I need to get even!





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< Message edited by glvaca -- 4/12/2012 6:53:34 AM >

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RE: 41-45GC GLVACA (Sov) v SJ80 (Axis) - NO SJ80 - 4/11/2012 11:48:46 PM   
M60A3TTS

 

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You should have something in the making of 14 cavalry corps barring permanent losses. I see about 6 east of Tula. What will their function will be?

You will be able to advance in places, but you need to bag units wherever the opportunity presents itself.

You lost 76 arms factories. With that you're ptrobably still ok, just don't lose any more.

Work on guards farming. This is the best chance that you will have for a while.

Make sure you are refitting your troops closer to the front and doing the main attacks first. That will sustain your push longer.

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Post #: 323
RE: 41-45GC GLVACA (Sov) v SJ80 (Axis) - NO SJ80 - 4/12/2012 12:06:21 AM   
Q-Ball


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Decent plan, I personally like skirting the Oka and approaching Moscow from the south. But you may as well attack the hexes immediately around Moscow too, keep the pressure on.

I don't think there is alot of subtlety really needed in the Russian Blizzard. Just form up Cav, and move everyone forward, punch as many German units as you can. That's pretty much it. Nothing fancy.

Each FRONT should have a couple RR Bdes in them, to repair rail as you move forward, don't forget that


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RE: 41-45GC GLVACA (Sov) v SJ80 (Axis) - NO SJ80 - 4/12/2012 7:02:41 AM   
glvaca

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

You should have something in the making of 14 cavalry corps barring permanent losses. I see about 6 east of Tula. What will their function will be?

You will be able to advance in places, but you need to bag units wherever the opportunity presents itself.

You lost 76 arms factories. With that you're ptrobably still ok, just don't lose any more.

Work on guards farming. This is the best chance that you will have for a while.

Make sure you are refitting your troops closer to the front and doing the main attacks first. That will sustain your push longer.


Those are actually stacks of 3 and then 3 (ready to form Corps) more spread out (they have been in the front taking back hexes whenever possible). They'll be attached to 1S, and be in the Vanguard of the advance causing trouble

I certainly don't intedn to lose more!

I've debated moving everything to the front line immediately, ragardless of morale, experience and strength, but in the end my personal preference of trying to imporve the quality of the Red Army prevailed. Even if I don't achieve much during the Blizzard, I want to have a much better Army for 1942, pushing everything into the front line where they can't improve on morale (and thus easily on experience) seems counter productive to that aim, besides, have rows upon rows, stumbling over each other isn't going to help. So the plan, simply put, is to refit 10+ hexes away, then rail the new "harvest" each turn to where I think it is needed most depending upon how things devellop. We'll see if it works as I hope it will.

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RE: 41-45GC GLVACA (Sov) v SJ80 (Axis) - NO SJ80 - 4/12/2012 7:08:04 AM   
glvaca

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Decent plan, I personally like skirting the Oka and approaching Moscow from the south. But you may as well attack the hexes immediately around Moscow too, keep the pressure on.

I don't think there is alot of subtlety really needed in the Russian Blizzard. Just form up Cav, and move everyone forward, punch as many German units as you can. That's pretty much it. Nothing fancy.

Each FRONT should have a couple RR Bdes in them, to repair rail as you move forward, don't forget that


The Moscow hexes are 30 to 50+ in lvl2 forts, and high quality units, it's just not going to happen there. And that is with Blizzard effects. It's exactly where he wants me to attack, so I won't. I'll keep enough there to make him worry and keep his defences strong and perhaps some attacks of opportunity can be made, but probably not at the start.

I don't like wasting anything, Russian or not. So I'll be as carefull as I possibly can be, generally speaking. Again, I don't want to ruin my Army, I'll need it to be strong in March if I have any hope of keeping what I took.

RR brigades, check. I have about 100 of them and all fronts and Stavka have several now. But definitely a good tip. Incidentally, this is why I still build RR brigades, while the general trend seem to be to go for sapper regs.

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RE: 41-45GC GLVACA (Sov) v SJ80 (Axis) - NO SJ80 - 4/12/2012 7:55:21 AM   
Flaviusx


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I would concentrate all my cav (and I mean ALL of it) on the flanks of Moscow and go medieval there. The only way you can get it back is to make the position untenable and strike at its communications. The rest of the front imo doesn't matter much.

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RE: 41-45GC GLVACA (Sov) v SJ80 (Axis) - NO SJ80 - 4/12/2012 8:08:37 PM   
glvaca

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

I would concentrate all my cav (and I mean ALL of it) on the flanks of Moscow and go medieval there. The only way you can get it back is to make the position untenable and strike at its communications. The rest of the front imo doesn't matter much.


I thought about this (we're now at turn 31) when making my preparations, but concentrating everything on one spot means giving an easy ride for the rest of the front allowing him to concentrate his forces where I don't want him too. So, spreading out my efforts will necessitate Sebastian spreading out his forces too, unless he's willing to give up much terrain without a fight (and he seems to be willing to fight for Stalino). It's a balancing act, too little will have little effect, too much and I may be too weak where it counts. However, the large reserve I currently have should enable me to reinforce parts of the fronts I think need more oepff while the battle unfolds. As you know, the Russian must fight where the Germans intends to stand, he's making a stand for Stalino and I'm happy to oblige.

(in reply to Flaviusx)
Post #: 328
RE: 41-45GC GLVACA (Sov) v SJ80 (Axis) - NO SJ80 - 4/12/2012 10:44:50 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 6398
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Stalino is irrelevant. It's gone come summer of 1942 anyways even if you temporarily get it. You absolutely have to take Moscow back. With that in hand you can anchor half your front and lock the north down.

With 15 cavalry corps concentrated in a couple of key sectors, you have the chance to achieve decisive results -- not just getting Moscow back but collapsing an entire sector of the front. Spreading them out all over won't do this, you won't be able to punch through anywhere and get clean into his rear.

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(in reply to glvaca)
Post #: 329
RE: 41-45GC GLVACA (Sov) v SJ80 (Axis) - NO SJ80 - 4/12/2012 11:17:44 PM   
glvaca

 

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I understand your point, and perhaps you are right, but it's too late
I preferred creating 3 Cav Armies in the most important sectors and force Sebastian to spread his army out, instead of having the oportunity to concentrate his force against a single drive. There is something to be said for both.

You'll soon find out who is right...

EDIT: well actually, you won't, you'll find out if my approach worked, we'll never know if yours would have worked.

< Message edited by glvaca -- 4/12/2012 11:18:25 PM >

(in reply to Flaviusx)
Post #: 330
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