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Another rookie question - 3/24/2012 9:45:28 PM   
CRations


Posts: 75
Joined: 2/21/2012
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Hi guys,

I've been lurking for a while and I must say you are the most helpful bunch of posters on any forum I've ever seen.

What is the value reduction of a land-based unit with the Operations Mode set to Move? In the manual it just notes “with some reduction of combat value.” It the combat value of a unit with Operations Mode set to Move reduced by a percentage? Is there a leadership check of some sort to determine the unit’s combat value while Moving?


Thanks in advance,

CRations
Post #: 1
RE: Another rookie question - 3/24/2012 10:03:31 PM   
witpqs

 

Posts: 14517
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: online
AFAIK the developers have not shared that formula with us. Just keep in mind that it's bad to get caught up in combat when in move mode, and that includes being bombed from the air. Some terrain does seem to limit the damage to units in move mode that get bombed from the air, but caution is still advised. BTW, getting hit when in strategic mode is worst of all.

(in reply to CRations)
Post #: 2
RE: Another rookie question - 3/25/2012 1:02:23 AM   
Torplexed


Posts: 215
Joined: 3/21/2002
From: The Pacific
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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

BTW, getting hit when in strategic mode is worst of all.


Indeed. Don't get caught in nuthin' but your boxcars.



_____________________________


(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 3
RE: Another rookie question - 3/25/2012 2:02:01 AM   
larryfulkerson

 

Posts: 20962
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ, USA, Earth, Solar System
Status: offline
Hey you guys........Thanks for all your help in getting us newbies up to speed with this fabulous game. I have a question about computer controlled convoys. How does that computer controlled mode work. How do you get it started and working right? I've had problems myself with it and can't seem to figure it out. I've had the most luck when AFTER I've loaded the cargo I assign a destination for the ship(s). Then put it in computer mode. Trouble is the ship(s) never seem to get refueled at the destination for some reason and they run outta gas, mainly in the off-map areas. Anybody's help with this will be much appreciated.

(in reply to Torplexed)
Post #: 4
RE: Another rookie question - 3/25/2012 4:01:29 AM   
jmalter

 

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hi larry, imo the computer-controlled convoy thing has always been a bit iffy, especially if you're playing the Japan side. if i were to use it, i'd slide into it slowly - allow 2 ports (and ships based there) to interact, and build up from there, once you're satisfied that the thing is working.

i've had much better luck w/ the CS convoys option for TransportTFs. i use CS TranTFs exclusively to run supplies from UK & EC-USA to Cape Town. i also use CS TankerTFs to run fuel from Abadan to Karachi, these guys work fine, but i don't have them spaced out correctly (they tend to overload either port's abiltiy to load/unload, 'cos they arrive too close together).

CS convoys also work well for me, for return-cargo. i've got AmphTFs sending supplies to Rangoon from Calcutta, returning w/ resources. similarly i've got TranTFs moving supplies from Perth to Port Hedland, returning w/ resources. the key is to use small TFs and space them out, so they arrive sequentially and don't overload a port's docking or load/unload capacity.

note wrt to off-map TF movement - while they might report as low on fuel, they prob'ly won't run out. nor will their ships incur the normal wear'n'tear damage points. off-map ships get 'magic' fuel from unspecified 'en-route' sources, i've never had an off-map TF suffer from lack of fuel, despite warning notices of low fuel reported in tracker.


< Message edited by jmalter -- 3/25/2012 4:19:12 AM >

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 5
RE: Another rookie question - 3/25/2012 4:54:40 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 3633
Joined: 9/28/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

Hey you guys........Thanks for all your help in getting us newbies up to speed with this fabulous game. I have a question about computer controlled convoys. How does that computer controlled mode work. How do you get it started and working right? I've had problems myself with it and can't seem to figure it out. I've had the most luck when AFTER I've loaded the cargo I assign a destination for the ship(s). Then put it in computer mode. Trouble is the ship(s) never seem to get refueled at the destination for some reason and they run outta gas, mainly in the off-map areas. Anybody's help with this will be much appreciated.


There are two quite different modes of AI controlled convoys.

1. Auto convoys
2. Continuous supply convoys

Read this thread for the low down on the two modes. This is probably the best thread which discusses both modes. Usually a thread only discusses one or the other mode.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2342744&mpage=1&key=continuous%2Csupply�

Essentially the difference between the two is that with:

(a) auto convoys


  • there are only 3 port hubs, Colombo, San Francisco and Osaka
  • ships must be located at one of the port hubs and specifically allocated to be assigned to the pool of ships dedicated solely for auto convoys
  • the port hub will only send auto convoys out to bases which have been specifically earmarked as part of the auto convoy system
  • it is designed for servicing rear areas - assign short legged merchantmen to the pool, the AI will send them the shortest route commensurate with their endurance irrespective if this entails sailing through enemy controlled air and sea space


(b) continuous supply convoys


  • are manually created by the player at any port, setting destination and carry orders and then handed over to computer control
  • is less of a create and forget process than auto convoys - it entails more micromanagement than auto convoys but the payoff is greater flexibility as to what they can do and where they go to


There are no real problems associated with using either mode. Do not believe anyone who tells you that either mode does not work properly. Invariably any problems are directly attributable to player errors and lack of understanding of how the system actually operates and what it is intended to achieve.

I do not recommend relying upon the AI to ship stuff in from off-map to an on-map location. Firstly, you can't use auto convoys as the hub ports are only on-map. Secondly, whilst you could set up a continuous supply convoy to move from off-map to on-map, the risk/reward benefit just isn't there. There is practically never a compelling reason why supply must be moved from an off-map base to an on-map base. The only occasions when that might need to be considered is if:

(a) most of India is under Japanese control and the remaining Indian bases can not generate sufficient supplies to feed the surviving troops
(b) the SLOCs West Coast - eastern Australia has been cut. Then shipping supply and fuel in from CapeTown to the western ports might be a consideration

In both the above instances the situation would be such that you will almost certainly have to custom tailor each convoy with adequate and powerful escorts, and an eye out for the actual route to be sailed. Plus, one should never assign tankers or oilers to computer control, they are far too valuable. Therefore as the most likely pressing reason to move stuff off-map to on-map is to move fuel/oil and that entails employing tankers/oilers, continuous supply from off-map is essentially only a theoretical consideration.

Finally, ships travelling between two off-map destinations never run out of fuel.

Alfred

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 6
RE: Another rookie question - 3/26/2012 2:29:31 AM   
CRations


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Joined: 2/21/2012
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Thanks guys. I guess the best I can do is try not to get caught in a land battle under any mode except combat. If the worst does come to pass then I'll get an excellent opportunity to learn...

To Alfred - thanks for your post to Larry's question. I'd have probably had the same problem with the auto convoy. I don't think I'd have figured out turning bases on/off to get ships to visit the bases. The picture Sardaukar showed of the base with automatic convoy off was worth a thousand words.

Another question I have for all of you - when I capture a base it looks like the base becomes "attached" to whatever command my ground units are under. It looks like I could change the headquarters of a base if I wanted to (and had enough political points). Is there any advantage to certain bases belonging to a specific headquarters?


(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 7
RE: Another rookie question - 3/26/2012 10:26:27 AM   
ilovestrategy


Posts: 3628
Joined: 6/11/2005
From: San Diego
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Torplexed


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

BTW, getting hit when in strategic mode is worst of all.


Indeed. Don't get caught in nuthin' but your boxcars.





That picture has always amazed me.

_____________________________

After 16 years, Civ II still has me in it's clutches LOL!!!
Now CIV IV has me in it's evil clutches!

(in reply to Torplexed)
Post #: 8
RE: Another rookie question - 3/26/2012 10:43:20 AM   
jmalter

 

Posts: 1218
Joined: 10/12/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CRations
Another question I have for all of you - when I capture a base it looks like the base becomes "attached" to whatever command my ground units are under. It looks like I could change the headquarters of a base if I wanted to (and had enough political points). Is there any advantage to certain bases belonging to a specific headquarters?

an example from my current game:
the IJ AI has been methodically waffle-stomping the DEI. the Dutch have a number of small flying-boat sqns that i wanted to save, but they all belong to permanently-restricted HQs & can't be transferred to bases that aren't compatible.

solution: change the base HQs for some of those tiny little bases in North Oz to ABDA command, then the Dutch sqns can fly to them.

(in reply to CRations)
Post #: 9
RE: Another rookie question - 3/26/2012 3:14:57 PM   
Lomri

 

Posts: 227
Joined: 2/6/2009
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A note on move mode - any combat or bombing that effects the unit in move mode will switch it to combat mode. Bombing marching units is a good way to slow them down.

(in reply to jmalter)
Post #: 10
RE: Another rookie question - 3/26/2012 7:11:07 PM   
CRations


Posts: 75
Joined: 2/21/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lomri


A note on move mode - any combat or bombing that effects the unit in move mode will switch it to combat mode. Bombing marching units is a good way to slow them down.



Hi Lomri,

Does that reset the miles traveled when a unit is forced out of MOVE mode and into COMBAT mode?

(in reply to Lomri)
Post #: 11
RE: Another rookie question - 3/26/2012 7:13:44 PM   
CRations


Posts: 75
Joined: 2/21/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jmalter

quote:

ORIGINAL: CRations
Another question I have for all of you - when I capture a base it looks like the base becomes "attached" to whatever command my ground units are under. It looks like I could change the headquarters of a base if I wanted to (and had enough political points). Is there any advantage to certain bases belonging to a specific headquarters?


an example from my current game:
the IJ AI has been methodically waffle-stomping the DEI. the Dutch have a number of small flying-boat sqns that i wanted to save, but they all belong to permanently-restricted HQs & can't be transferred to bases that aren't compatible.

solution: change the base HQs for some of those tiny little bases in North Oz to ABDA command, then the Dutch sqns can fly to them.


Ahhh - I see what you mean. Thanks for the explanation.


(in reply to jmalter)
Post #: 12
RE: Another rookie question - 3/26/2012 8:24:51 PM   
Lomri

 

Posts: 227
Joined: 2/6/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CRations


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lomri


A note on move mode - any combat or bombing that effects the unit in move mode will switch it to combat mode. Bombing marching units is a good way to slow them down.



Hi Lomri,

Does that reset the miles traveled when a unit is forced out of MOVE mode and into COMBAT mode?


Air bombing does not. I am pretty sure bombardment by other LCUs does not. I don't actually know if a deliberate or a shock will reset milage. I think it won't, but don't want to give you incorrect information. All these events can add fatigue to a unit and further slow down movement. When making march time estimates the numbers in the book for terrain are going to be BEST possible.

(in reply to CRations)
Post #: 13
RE: Another rookie question - 3/26/2012 10:18:02 PM   
Empire101


Posts: 1957
Joined: 5/20/2008
From: Coruscant
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No it does not reset the mileage. However, as previously mentioned, it will reset ops mode to combat, which basically means your combat ready but will move at a snails pace compared to Move mode or Strategic mode.

As already mentioned try not to get caught with your pants down.
If the units are in Move or Strategic mode (especially in the open ), and they are attacked by LCU's or bombed from the air, losses will be significantly greater.

_____________________________

Our lives may be more boring than those who lived in apocalyptic times,
but being bored is greatly preferable to being prematurely dead because of some ideological fantasy.
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(in reply to Lomri)
Post #: 14
RE: Another rookie question - 3/27/2012 2:33:49 AM   
Blackhorse


Posts: 1926
Joined: 8/20/2000
From: Eastern US
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CRations


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lomri


A note on move mode - any combat or bombing that effects the unit in move mode will switch it to combat mode. Bombing marching units is a good way to slow them down.



Hi Lomri,

Does that reset the miles traveled when a unit is forced out of MOVE mode and into COMBAT mode?


Yes, in the sense that combat/bombings take place before movement. So a LCU set to move on a road (up to 30 miles) might get bombed, reset to 'combat' and only move a few miles that turn, depending ion the terrain. And if the player doesn't notice, and doesn't reset the mode next turn, the delay will be even longer, of course.


_____________________________

WitP-AE -- US LCU & AI Stuff

Oddball: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
Moriarty: Crap!

(in reply to CRations)
Post #: 15
RE: Another rookie question - 3/27/2012 3:55:31 AM   
CRations


Posts: 75
Joined: 2/21/2012
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Thanks everyone for the clarifications on the different modes and how a unit's movement rate are affected by air attacks and bombardment attacks.

(in reply to Blackhorse)
Post #: 16
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