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War in the East v1.06.05 Public Beta

 
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War in the East v1.06.05 Public Beta - 3/24/2012 1:30:34 AM   
Andrew Loveridge


Posts: 576
Joined: 7/20/2009
Status: offline
Hello all,

We have a new update in the works. You can get a beta version in the Members Club. It has a long list of data changes, some scenario fixes, rules corrections, and bug fixes. It also includes Scenario changes for Don to the Danube, if you have that installed.


V1.06.05 – March 20, 2012

    New Features and Rule Changes


      1. New Scenario – Added an alternate 1941-45 Campaign scenario with adjusted victory conditions. The scenario is titled 1941-45 Campaign – Alt VC260. This is identical to the normal 1941-45 Campaign except that it ends at the start of turn 212 (5 July 1945). The Axis Decisive Victory level (Automatic Victory) is 260 instead of 290. The Soviet Major Victory timeframe ends on 31 March 1945 (instead of 31 May 1945) and the Soviet Minor Victory timeframe between 1 April 1945 and 30 June 1945. A draw occurs if Germany does not surrender by 1 July 1945 and the Axis has less than 142 victory points. Note for scenario modders: These altered victory conditions will apply to any scenario that is set to end on turn 212.
      2. New Interface – When the auto assign button (or g hotkey) is used, a message will now appear if the Leader has made a successful leader role and reduced the AP expenditure. Per the item above, all transfers will now cost a minimum of 1 point.
      3. AI Improvements – Improved the German AI with regards to operations to secure the Leningrad area and capture Odessa. Sped up Soviet AI, especially when dealing with its units that are isolated. Fixed a bug preventing the AI when at an advantage from attacking as much as it should (especially for the Soviet AI).
      4. Rule Correction (sections 6.2.2 and 14.1.5) – The movement cost for both Motorized and Non-Motorized units to move into a mountain pass hex, if moving along the rail, is 4 MPs (not 8 or 3). Also, the presence of any enemy zone of control does not prevent the use of the mountain pass movement rate (although units must pay all normal ZOC movement costs).
      5. Rule Correction (section 12.2) – The following sentence in the manual should be deleted as there is a minimum cost of 1 for any unit transfer: “A successful leader admin check that normally costs one point will reduce the admin cost of transferring that unit to zero.”
      6. Rule Correction (section 22.2.2) – There will be at most one mud turn per weather zone during turns from 01 December to 29 February (not 31 March as stated in the manual).

    Bug Fixes

      1. Fixed a bug that could cause excessive rotation of elements during the replacement phase.
      2. Fixed the Insert/Delete functions for air groups in the editor.
      3. Fixed a bug where factories could be ordered to move to invalid (off rail) cities.
      4. Fixed a bug where withdrawing units were not set to be frozen for 6 turns when destroyed and were showing up as retreated in the battle report when in fact they had been destroyed.
      5. Fixed the display of supplies available for units involved in an HQ build up.
      6. Fixed a crash bug in the AI line forming function that appeared in the Road to Leningrad scenario.

    Data and Scenario Changes

      War in the East Scenario Changes

        1. Added new 1941-45 Campaign – Alt VC260 scenario. See New Feature item #1 for details.
        2. General Updates
        * Varazdin is now a Yugoslavian city
        * Minor factory changes
        3. 1944 Campaign
        * Cleared some erroneous equipment in the Finnish Pool

      Don to the Danube Scenario Changes

        1. General Updates for RAR, DitU, RFL and DotD scenarios
        * Minor factory changes
        * Rumanian Air Bases Rebuilt to use latest OB changes
        2. Decision in the Ukraine
        * 1st Rum. Armored Division rebuilt for recent OB updates
        3. Drama on the Danube
        * Rumanian bomber airgroups upgraded to SM79JR
        * Fixed a few minor naming inconsistencies in Hungarian
        airgroups
        * 1st Rum. Armored Division rebuilt for recent OB updates
        4. Red Army Resurgent and Operation Uranus
        * 1st Guards Mech Corps assigned to 1st Guards Army, frozen and given 0 MPs.

      Changes in Device, OB and Leader files

        1. Corrected the upgrade path on (Panzer Pioneer Squad 102).
        2. Cleaned up outstanding errors and omissions and make some corrections based on better understanding of the game system to hopefully make the games work better data wise. Some highlights:
        • Removed all circular references (things upgrade to themselves);
        • Restored the German divisional artillery to full strength in 44 Infantry Division in WitE;
        • Reversed the allocation of BA-20 and BA-64 armored cars in all Soviet units using both to correct shortage problem;
        • Changed the default 76mm Field gun in most Soviet units from the F-22 to the ZiS-3 from 1942 on;
        • Removed most overlapping upgrades where a ground element is supposed to continue in production after it upgrades in order to allow production to continue to last date; hopefully this will reduce mass upgrades occurring;
        • Fixed any omissions/errors in upgrade paths which hopefully will stop weird messages in the event long.
        3. Corrected yet again the upgrade path of the SS Motorized Brigades (OB 44 & 283) and fixed a file copy error that had the Hungarian Motorcycle Squad (0354) erroneously upgrading to a Rifle Squad. Both the 41 SS Motorized Brigade (OB 44) and the 43 SS Motorized Brigade now have end dates of January, 1945 and no upgrade paths.
        4. Fixed the amount of Support elements in the Rumanian Air Base TOE (OB 570).
        5. 42 Separate Tank Battalion (OB 241) no longer upgrades to Tank Regiment and Last Year/Last Month changed to 43/12 (historically these battalions were disbanded or used to form tank brigades).
        6. Changed Eugen von Schobert’s rank to Generaloberst
        7. Corrected the Maximum Command Level of Ivan Chernyakhovsky to Front.
        8. Corrected Morale rating of Fyodor Krasovsky to 5.

      Changes in AC file

        1. Some minor changes like maxload or max alt rounding not noted, other changes below:

      GERMANY

        • Ar 234B bombs set to external and changed to single 1000kg bomb, fuel increased to 7004 (1800+1990l *0.84kg per liter) endurance down to 130 min, maxload down to 2207, sortie ammo down to 2340
        • Bf 109E-3 MG FF changed to device 33, sortie ammo down to 102 (sync with E-7)
        • Bf 109E-4/B MG FF changed to device 33, upgrade to Fw 190A, maxspeed up to 339 mph
        • Bf 109E-7 MG FF changed to device 33, drop tank to device 0077, maneuver +1 to 34 (same as E-3)
        • Bf 109F-2 drop tank changed to device 77, ammo up to 90
        • Bf 109F-4 drop tank changed to device 77, ammo up to 100, build cost +20 to 388
        • Bf 109G-14 build limit down to 30, build cost down to 458
        • Bf 109G-6 main gun changed to MG 151/20, ammo up to 120, build cost down to 433
        • Bf 109G-6/R2 main gun changed to MG 151/20, remove underwing gondola guns, performance data changed to Bf 109G-6 level cost down to 453 (G-6 + 20), ammo down to 120
        • Bf 109G-6/U4N max alt down to 36748, maneuver +2 to 30 (impact of -5 is more than enough), build cost -100 to 473
        • Bf 109K-4 main gun changed to MK 108, add missing droptank, fuel up to 1229, build cost up to 478, ammo down to 92
        • Bf 110C MG FF changed to device 0033
        • Bf 110C-4B MG FF changed to device 0033
        • Bf 110D-1 MG FF changed to device 0033
        • Bf 110E-2 MG 15 to TR position, bombs to 2x500kg, ammo up to 2469, build limit reduced to 5
        • Bf 110F-4a MG 151 to MG FF, add missing droptanks, fuel up to 3086, add build limit of two and expansion rate of 1
        • Bf 110G-2 MG 81 to TR position, 2x250kg -> 2x500kg, ammo up to 2909, add end date of 3/1944 build cost down to 740, max speed up to 367mph
        • Bf 110G-4 MG FF to MG 151/20, MG 15 -> 2x MG 81 in TR, drop tanks changed to device 79, build cost -50 to 823, maxspeed up to 315mph
        • Bf 110G-4/U8 MG 151 (SM) changed to MG FF, remove Naxos, drop tanks changed to device 79, build cost -70 to 873, maxspeed down to 320mph
        • Do 17Z-2 ammo reduced by 100 to 2400
        • Do 215B-1 reliability +2 to 10
        • Do 215B-5 MG FF changed to device 0033, add MG 15 in TR, change Spanner and bombs to internal, reliability +2 to 10
        • Do 217E-2 bombs changed to 2x1000 + 2x500 (all internal), maxload down to 6617, ammo down to 6850, add upgrade to new Do 217K, MG 151 -> MG 151/20, +1 MG 15 side gun, MG 131 TR -> turret (360 degree ring mount), endurance up to 300, cruise speed up to 274 mph, build cost -100 to 1452 (my previous increase was too harsh)
        • Do 217J add missing MG 131 turret, add build limit of 2 and expansion rate of 1, endurance up to 300, max alt down to 26906, build cost -100 to 1529
        • Do 217N max alt up to 29530, endurance up to 300, durability up to 44, build cost -100 to 1567
        • Do 335A MG 151 -> MG 151/20
        • Fi 156C max alt -90 to 5000m (16407ft)
        • FW 189A ends 3/1944
        • FW 190A remove drop tanks, fwd guns changed to two each MG 151/20, MG FF and MG 17; bomb changed to 500kg, upgrade to new Fw 190A-8, fuel down to 865, ammo up to 1308, availability date to 6/42 (from 8/42)
        • FW 190A-5/U2 +1 drop tank, fuel up to 1856
        • FW 190A-8/R2 remove MG 17 (weight saving), add drop tank, fuel up to 1551, endurance to 110 min
        • Fw 190D build limit reduced to 10 to account for the additional Fw 190G factories
        • FW 190F MG 131 to MG 17, 2x250 to 1x500kg bomb, add upgrade to new Fw 190F-8
        • FW 190G 2x250 -> 500kg bomb, droptanks to external, fuel +1 to 1856, maneuver +5 to 35, tactical bomber -> fighter-bomber (was called JaBo-Rei - FB with extended range), upgrade to Fw 190D, not enough Fw 190D production in-game
        • Fw 200C-3/U4 guns changed to MG 151/20 fwd, one MG 15 and one MG 131 Turret, two MG 15 side, one MG 15 BR
        • He 111H-20/R2 Guns changed to MG 131 fwd+turret, two MG 81 each in BR and side, build limit down to 10, expansion rate of 1 added, first date set to 10/1943
        • He 111H-3 add build limit of 30 and expansion of 1, fuel down to 5335 (2425kg with full internal bombload)
        • He 111H-4 fwd MG 15 -> MG FF, bombs changed to 8x250kg internal, upgrades to new He 111H-6, build cost down to 1044 (as H-3), fuel down to 5335
        • He 111P add two MG 15 side
        • He 112B MG FF to fwd position
        • He 170A (actually the He 70F), change guns to single MG 15 in TR, reduce ammo to 25
        • He 177 change bombs to 4x1000kg, maxload down to 8822, ammo down to 9261, endurance up to 420min, fuel up to 17705, guns changed to MG 151/20 fwd, 2x MG 131 turret, 1 MG 131 turret, 1 MG 131 BR, 1 MG 151/20 rear, build limit up to 10, ends 12/1944
        • He 219 remove MK 103
        • He 46C TR MG 17 -> TR MG 15, bombs from fwd to external
        • Hs 123A remove 250kg bomb, ammo down to 540
        • Hs 126B max alt slightly down to 26906
        • Hs 129B remove 250kg bomb, ammo down to 470, ends 9/1944

        • Ju 188E bombs changed to 2x1000+2x500, only one MG 131 in TR but two MG 81 in BR, end date set to 9/1944
        • Ju 52 guns changed to 2x1 MG 15 turret, ammo down to 50
        • Ju 86K-2 bombs changed to internal, ammo down to 2275, upgrade to Ju 88A added
        • Ju 87B bombs changed to the typical 250kg + 4x50kg, ammo reduced to 1065, maxload down to 994
        • Ju 87D bombs changed to 1x1000 + 4x50kg, maxload down to 2648, ammo down to 2740, add upgrade to new Ju 87D-5
        • Ju 87G maxload removed - carried no bombs, build cost up to 544
        • Ju 88A guns changed to one MG 15 each in fwd+TR+BR and 2x MG 15 side, ammo down to 4525, upgrade to new Ju 88A-4, build cost -50 to 1217
        • Ju 88C-2 MG FF changed to device 0033, bombs changed to internal, ammo reduced to 1350, build cost +50 to 1255
        • Ju 88C-6 MG 15 BR changed to two MG 81 TR, build cost +20 to 1269
        • Ju 88D-1 guns changed to MG 81, TR/BR now has two guns, add two MG 81 side guns, ammo increased to 150, ends 12/1943, upgrade to new Ju 188F
        • Ju 88G MG 131 BR -> TR, build cost +50 to 1339

        • Me 210A max speed up to 357mph
        • Me 323 guns changed to two MG 131 fwd/TR + one MG 131 turret + four MG 81 side, add build limit and expansion rate of 1; fuel up to 10131 (6x690l + 4x500l aux tanks), endurance up to 375min
        • Me 410A add end date 9/1944
        • Si 204A fuel up to 1023 (620l), max load to 2207, max alt to 21000, use air symbol from Do 17P
        • Ta 152H fuel down to 1918 (172+268 kg fuselage, 296 kg in wing tanks, 104 kg GM1, 64 kg MW-50 (counted with 50%)), build limit raised to 10, reliability raised to 15 (=less reliable, problems with the second stage engine supercharger), cruise speed down to 342 mph, endurance down to 140 min, max alt up to 48559 ft, add max load of 250kg (drop tank option), build limit down to 5 to account for the additional Fw 190G factories
        • Fw 190A-8 New 1/1944 model, upgrade path from Fw 190A
        upgraded armament, more internal fuel, a bit faster and more durable than Fw 190A, higher production
        • Fw 190F-8 New 1/1944 model, upgrade path from Fw 190F
        increased armament, a bit more bombs, performance, maneuver, durability, higher production
        • Ju 87D-5 New 7/1943 model, upgrade path from Ju 87D
        changed back from ground strafer version to bomb-equipped variant, ends 9/44
        • Do 217K New 1/1943 model, upgrade path from Do 217E-2
        slightly improved performance (same engines but better aerodynamic form), improved armament, ends 12/43
        • Ju 88A-4 New 1/1942 model, upgrade path from for Ju 88A and to Ju 188, ends 9/1944
        improved armament/performance
        • He 111H-6 New 1/1942 model, upgrade path from He 111H-4 and to He 177, ends 9/1944
        improved armament/performance
        • Ju 188F New 3/1943 model, upgrade path from Ju 88D-1
        Ju 188 version to the then out-of-production Ju 88D series
        ----

      FINLAND

        • Bf 109G-6(F) equipment and data adjusted to match German Bf 109G-6
        • Ju 88A(F) equipment/data changed to Ju 88A-4, modified/adapted to 3t bombload and short range, bombs to 2x1000 + 2x500, import source kept at Ju 88A
        • Do 17Z-2(F) ammo reduced by 100 to 2400
        • Fi 156C(F) Data sync
        • Hurricane fuel reduced to 705 (94 imp gals)
        • Pe-2(F) maxload down to 2207 to match bombs
        • SB-2(F) maxload fixed at 1t (2207)
        • VL Myrsky II maxload adjusted to 443 to match bombs, bombs fwd -> ext
        ----

      ITALY

        • Ca.135bis maxload down to 3309 to match bombs
        • Ca.311 bombs fwd -> int
        • G.55 Centauro maneuver rating +3 to 35 - way underrated with 32, comparable to other 5-series fighters and Bf 109G series
        • Re.2001 add build limit of 3 and expansion rate of 1
        • SM.75 added 7.7mm Breda turret + 25 ammo, maxload down to 3000kg, fuel quadrupled to 4452, endurance down to 330min
        • SM.79 bombs reduced from 6 to 5, ammo and maxload adjusted accordingly, guns (except side) changed to 12.7mm SAFAT
        • SM.81 fuel doubled to 3970, maxload down to 1500kg, endurance down to 350min
        ----

      ROMANIA

        • Bf 109E-3(R) Equipment/Data sync
        • Bf 109G-2(R) Data sync, increase imports by 42
        • Bf 109G-6(R) equipment/data sync, reduce imports by 42
        • Blenheim I recon remove empty equipment slot and maxload (no bombs)
        • Hurricane fuel reduced to 705 (94 imp gals), upgrade to IAR 81B
        • Do 17M(R) maxload removed
        • Fi 156C(R) Data sync
        • He 112B(R) MG FF in TR -> fwd, upgrade to Bf 109G-2(R)
        • Hs 129B(R) Equipment/Data sync, MK 103 removed and replaced by four more 50kg bombs, ammo up to 800
        • IAR 37-39 fuel up to 1312 (540+130+125l), guns changed to 7.92mm FN MG
        • IAR 37 bombs changed to 12x50kg
        • IAR 38 bombs changed to 8x50kg, maxload down to 400kg, ammo down to 920, maxspeed up to 168mph, cruise speed up to 125mph, endurance up to 200min
        • IAR 39 bombs changed to 12x50kg, maxload up to 600kg, ammo up to 1420, ends 8/1944 now
        • IAR 80A maxspeed up to 320mph
        • IAR 81A built limit and expansion rate of 1 added, bombs changed to 1x500lbs + 2x50kg, ammo down to 920
        • IAR 81B maxload reduced to 300 (just for drop tanks)
        • Ju 52(R) Equipment/Data sync
        • Ju 86K-2(R) Equipment/Data sync, bombs fwd -> int, upgrade to Ju 88A(R)
        • Potez 63 end date to 2/1943, shall be auto-upgraded to better aircraft then
        • PZL 11F guns changed to 4x 7.92mm FN MG
        • PZL 24E cannon changed to MG FF (closest match, Oerlikon gun in-game modeled as newer variant), upgrade to Bf 109G-2(R)
        • SET 7K maxload removed (no bombs)
        • SM.79(R) equipment/Data sync with adaption to the twin-engined SM.79B data, guns changed to 7.92/13.2mm FN MG (two side guns)
        • SM.79JR guns changed to 7.92/13.2mm FN MG (two side guns)
        • , add Italian SM.79 as import source with 60 aircraft (pending a better solution with local factory)
        • Ju 87D(R) Equipment/Data sync
        • Ju 88A(R) Equipment/Data sync to Ju 88A-4, import source kept at Ju 88A
        • Ju 88D-1(R) Equipment/Data sync
        ----

      HUNGARY

        • Bf 109F-4(H) Data sync
        • Bf 109G-14(H) Data sync
        • Bf 109G-6(H) Equipment/Data sync, build limit +1 to 2, delayed from 6/43 to 8/43
        • CR.32 Upgrade to Re.2000
        • CR.42 upgrade to Me 210
        • Fw 189A(H) Equipment/Data sync
        • Fw 190F(H) Equipment/Data sync
        • He 170A(H) guns rear -> TR
        • He 46C(H) bombs fwd -> ext, TR gun changed to MG 15

        • Ju 52(H) Equipment/Data sync
        • Ju 86K-2(H) Equipment/Data sync, bombs fwd -> int
        • Ju 87D(H) Equipment/Data sync
        • Ju 88A(H) Equipment/Data sync to Ju 88A-4, import source kept at Ju 88A, removed empty equipment slots
        • Ju 88D-1(H) Equipment/Data sync
        • Me 210Ca-1(H) Equipment/Data sync with adaption to DB605 engines, bombs fwd -> int
        • Re.2000 Upgrade to Re.2000 Heja II
        • SM.75(H) Equipment/Data sync
        • WM 21 ammo reduced to 75, fuel reduced to 900, removed maxload
        • Re.2000 Heja II new late 1942 model, upgrades to Bf 109G-6(H)
        License-built version of the Re.2000 with higher performance, more range and more reliable engine
        uses Italian Re.2000 as import source with 120 aircraft (pending a better solution with local factory)
        ----

      SLOVAKIA

        • Bf 109E-3(S) Equipment/Data sync
        • Bf 109G-6(S) Equipment/Data sync
        • Fw 189A(S) Equipment/Data sync
        • Ju 87D(S) Equipment/Data sync
        • S-328 bombs fwd -> ext
        ----

      SOVIET

        • General: Most self-update paths removed

        • I-16 T18 Bombs fwd -> ext
        • I-16 T24 Bombs fwd -> ext
        • MiG-3 Bombs fwd -> ext
        • Yak-9T add two 100kg bombs, ammo up to 500
        • Yak-2 maxload down to 500kg to match bombs, ammo down to 1150
        • Yak-4 maxload down to 500kg to match bombs, ammo down to 1150
        • Yak-2 maxload down to 500kg to match bombs, ammo down to 1150
        • LaGG-3 29 add two 100kg bombs, ammo up to 505
        • LaGG-3 66 add two 100kg bombs, ammo up to 505
        • SB-2 recon maxload removed
        • U-2 recon maxload removed
        • U-2VS maxload down to 300kg to match bombs and ammo
        • Pe-2 maxload down to 1000kg to match bombs
        • Pe-2R maxload removed (no bombs)
        • Yer-2 43 maxload down to 4000kg to match bombs
        • Pe-8 maxload down to 3000kg to match bombs
        • Li-2 fuel up to 5022(804 US gals), crew +1 to 3, maxload reduced to 6400 (max overload weight at 29k lbs with max fuel), maxspeed reduced to 240mph, endurance down to 400min
        • Li-2VP maxload reduced to 1500kg to match bombs, fuel up to 5022(804 US gals), endurance down to 400min, cruise speed down to 170mph
        • A-20B two .303 rear changed into single BR, fuel reduced to 2500 (400 US gallons), endurance down to 180min
        • A-20G replace 2cm guns with .50 (unreliable, only 250 built (out of 2500+ A-20G)), fuel down to 3397 (544 US gal, one bomb bay tank), bombs changed to 4x500 int and 4x500 ext, cruise speed down to 245mph, endurance down to 220min
        • B-25D fuel up to 6085 (974 US gal in main and aux wing tanks), +1 fwd .50 gun
        • B-25J fuel up to 7426 (974 US gal in main and aux wing tanks + 215 US gals above bombbay), guns changed to 5 fwd + two each Turret/Rear/side, bombs down to 6x500lb, ammo down to 3300, endurance up to 460
        • Hurri IIB armor changed to one - not a heavily armored variant, maneuver +2 to 33, minor maxspeed reduction, fuel reduced to 705 (94 imp gals), cruise speed down to 256mph, endurance up to 105min
        • Hurri IIC armor changed to one - not a heavily armored variant, durability +3 to 29 (some protection against ground fire), fuel reduced to 705 (94 imp gals), maneuver +1 to 32, minor maxspeed reduction, endurance down to 105min, cruise speed up to 245mph
        • P-39D remove droptank, fuel up to 750 (120 us gals), cruise speed down to 230mph, endurance up to 155min
        • P-39N remove droptank, fuel up to 534 (86 us gals), maneuver +1 to 30, cruise speed to 240mph, endurance to 100min
        • P-39Q remove droptank, fuel up to 750 (120 us gals), armor 2 > 1, maneuver +1 to 29, cruise speed to 250mph, endurance to 155min
        • P-63 remove droptank, Fuel up to 850 (136 us gals), cruise speed down to 250mph, endurance up to 170min, max alt up to 40k, ammo up to 1760, maneuver +1 to 31, armor 2 -> 1, bombs to 3x500lb
        • P-40B fuel to 1250
        • P-40E remove droptank, fuel to 1250
        • P-40K remove droptank, fuel to 1250, 100lb bombs removed, ammo down to 743, maxload down to 500, maxspeed down to 362mph
        • P-40N remove droptank, fuel to 1250, bombs changed to 3x500lb, endurance down to 140min, maxload up to 1500, ammo up to 1743, maxspeed up to 378mph
        • P-47D remove droptank, bomb changed to two 1000lb, maxload up to 2000, ammo up to 2204, fuel to 1905 (305 us gals fuselage), endurance up to 160min, cruise speed down to 340 to account for bombs
        • Spit IX bombs/maxload removed, ammo reduced to 126
        • Spit Vb bombs/maxload removed, ammo reduced to 126
        • C-47 fuel up to 5022(804 US gals), crew +1 to 3, maxload reduced to 6400 (max overload weight at 29k lbs with max fuel), max alt up to 26k ft, endurance down to 400min
        ----


< Message edited by Andrew Loveridge -- 3/24/2012 1:41:45 AM >


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Andrew Loveridge

Production Assistant

Post #: 1
RE: War in the East v1.06.05 Public Beta - 3/24/2012 1:56:33 AM   
Mehring

 

Posts: 1539
Joined: 1/25/2007
Status: offline
5. 42 Separate Tank Battalion (OB 241) no longer upgrades to Tank Regiment and Last Year/Last Month changed to 43/12 (historically these battalions were disbanded or used to form tank brigades).

Which reminds me, IIUC the Russian 1941 ski battalions were add hoc units drawn from soldiers within existing divisions that could ski. They were then disolved back into their divisions after the winter. With so much pedantry to accurately depict the SS, could we not please have rules to depict 1941 ski units? If this is indeed the the way these battalions came about, could we either-

1. If these units were detached from their original division, have these units spawn from divisions, thus weakening them until they re-merge, but producing ski units at or near the exp/morale of the 'mother' unit.

2. If they were used within their division, mark the division as containing a 'ski capable' batallion with CV modified accordingly.

Thanks.

_____________________________

“The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations.”
ฏ Thomas Jefferson

(in reply to Andrew Loveridge)
Post #: 2
RE: War in the East v1.06.05 Public Beta - 3/24/2012 8:56:14 AM   
Michael T


Posts: 2294
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline
Added new 1941-45 Campaign – Alt VC260 scenario. See New Feature item #1 for details

Thank you Joel and Team

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Post #: 3
RE: War in the East v1.06.05 Public Beta - 3/24/2012 12:08:22 PM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 3150
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline

quote:


5. 42 Separate Tank Battalion (OB 241) no longer upgrades to Tank Regiment and Last Year/Last Month changed to 43/12 (historically these battalions were disbanded or used to form tank brigades).


Does this mean that APs spent on creating these are now basically wasted, or well, not wasted, you get a tank regiment for a time, but badly spent? It appears it might be fair to give the Soviets free tank brigades at some ratio as compensation?

_____________________________

Read my AAR:s ye mighty, and despair!
41Ger
41Sov
41Ger
42Ger
42Sov

(in reply to Andrew Loveridge)
Post #: 4
RE: War in the East v1.06.05 Public Beta - 3/24/2012 12:11:10 PM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 3150
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mehring
With so much pedantry to accurately depict the SS, could we not please have rules to depict 1941 ski units?


+1. Well put! Why is it that the Germans in general and the SS in particular seems to attract a majority of the pedants?

Eh...on second thoughts, I think the question answers itself.

_____________________________

Read my AAR:s ye mighty, and despair!
41Ger
41Sov
41Ger
42Ger
42Sov

(in reply to Mehring)
Post #: 5
RE: War in the East v1.06.05 Public Beta - 3/24/2012 5:03:34 PM   
fbs

 

Posts: 1047
Joined: 12/25/2008
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While I truly appreciate the care, research and details on modelling the aircrafts (I really do, this is an amazing effort, don't get me wrong), I fear if all that is wasted on the generic air model the game uses.

I mean, adding 23 minutes to endurance for historical accuracy is great, but I have no control which aircrafts will be flying CAP and the game may end up sending something idiotic to fly. Or will not fly at all. Or fly to the wrong place. Or may spend all their flying time on escorts I didn't need them to. Or will be all shot down trying to straffe that stack of 3 corps with 1,000 AA guns when they were supposed to just escort one recon flight. And then there's no point trying to build elite groups, because I have no control on trying to do that.

With all those generic and unknown variables, the only thing that works for sure is to accumulate 3,000 aircrafts one hex away from their HQ, and move the whole blob to where you want air superiority.

My point is: the whole air war feels like a big dough ball or a big blob of blurp. There's no fine point for the air units, and therefore that wonderful work to precisely model the fine points of individual airframes just gets lost in the dough.

I don't want to sound negative.


< Message edited by fbs -- 3/24/2012 5:50:33 PM >

(in reply to Tarhunnas)
Post #: 6
RE: War in the East v1.06.05 Public Beta - 3/24/2012 6:02:47 PM   
Tarhunnas


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I do think you have a point there fbs. While it is nice with the detail, for all the player can influence the air war, it would probably work just as well with 5 generic basic types, fighter, level bomber, dive bomber etc. All that detail with the right sort of cannon, bomb etc seems largely wasted effort. Especially when other parts of the game are rather rough and ready, the weather and the supply system for example. It is really the same thing with ground equipment, WITE bothers with the exact number and type of Sdkfz whatever in this and that division, but all rail lines are the same, even though the type of rail line available probably had a much bigger impact on operations.

Same here, I love this game and enjoy it a lot, not wanting to sound negative, but some of the design decisions concerning what's detailed and what's generic and simplified seem very uneven and almost inexplicable.

_____________________________

Read my AAR:s ye mighty, and despair!
41Ger
41Sov
41Ger
42Ger
42Sov

(in reply to fbs)
Post #: 7
RE: War in the East v1.06.05 Public Beta - 3/24/2012 7:40:00 PM   
Joel Billings


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There's one simple reason why so many changes are going into the aircraft data. It's that we have a volunteer that is spending a lot of time researching and improving the data. The impact on WitE may not be huge, but when we have an opportunity to improve the data we'll take it. This improved data is going over to WitW where much more programming and design time is being put into the air game. Rome wasn't built in a day.

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Post #: 8
RE: War in the East v1.06.05 Public Beta - 3/24/2012 10:09:05 PM   
Denniss

 

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It's better to get the aircraft data fixed once so you don't have to tinker with it again. And yes - the air combat model in WitE is a bit rough but that shall improve in WitW.
Tinkering with the data and playtesting these changes did also show some bugs in the air combat system that Pavel was able to identify and resolve. Two examples from ground attack missions - aircraft used to fire all their weapons at ground targets, even top rear or top turret position ones, some aircraft used their drop tanks to eliminate enemy targets - some kind of early napalm bombs .....
A lot of data error were fixed like wrong equipment orientation (bombs in forward position), too many or not enough bombs/load/fuel or impossible combinations of max fuel and max bombload.

I would no call this work wasted or too much detail.

< Message edited by Denniss -- 3/24/2012 10:11:36 PM >


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Post #: 9
RE: War in the East v1.06.05 Public Beta - 3/25/2012 1:26:19 AM   
Creeper

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: fbs


My point is: the whole air war feels like a big dough ball or a big blob of blurp. There's no fine point for the air units, and therefore that wonderful work to precisely model the fine points of individual airframes just gets lost in the dough.

I don't want to sound negative.



+1
I also don't want sound negative; I like WitE alot!
But the airwar is in my opion a farce, I'm sad that Gary
did not make it so detailed as we could see it in BoB/BtR.


(in reply to fbs)
Post #: 10
RE: War in the East v1.06.05 Public Beta - 3/25/2012 2:25:00 AM   
Cerion

 

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quote:

1. New Scenario – Added an alternate 1941-45 Campaign scenario with adjusted victory conditions. The scenario is titled 1941-45 Campaign – Alt VC260. This is identical to the normal 1941-45 Campaign except that it ends at the start of turn 212 (5 July 1945). The Axis Decisive Victory level (Automatic Victory) is 260 instead of 290. The Soviet Major Victory timeframe ends on 31 March 1945 (instead of 31 May 1945) and the Soviet Minor Victory timeframe between 1 April 1945 and 30 June 1945. A draw occurs if Germany does not surrender by 1 July 1945 and the Axis has less than 142 victory points.


Good!!!!!!

(in reply to Creeper)
Post #: 11
RE: War in the East v1.06.05 Public Beta - 3/25/2012 6:08:33 AM   
map66

 

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Agree strongly on the air war, though also highly appreciative of the volunteer work going into the data changes, and hopeful that things will improve with WiTW and that the changes will be ported back to WiTE at some point soon thereafter rather then waiting for the potential WITE 2 or War in Europe (that would be in 2020, I mean?).

But that said, I kinda wish the air war in the game would just go away into something abstracted. Seems way too much either just moving air bases around in large lumps or exploiting the system through such things as spam of small raids or tinkering through trial and error to get those perfect turn 1 bombing totals. It is really a sore thumb in what is otherwise such a fantastic game.

(in reply to Cerion)
Post #: 12
RE: War in the East v1.06.05 Public Beta - 3/25/2012 9:39:03 PM   
Farfarer

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas


quote:


5. 42 Separate Tank Battalion (OB 241) no longer upgrades to Tank Regiment and Last Year/Last Month changed to 43/12 (historically these battalions were disbanded or used to form tank brigades).


Does this mean that APs spent on creating these are now basically wasted, or well, not wasted, you get a tank regiment for a time, but badly spent? It appears it might be fair to give the Soviets free tank brigades at some ratio as compensation?



So to be clear, if I create tank battalions, they will stay battalion size forever. So I can make some ( or none) and then wait for regiments to be selectable then swap them out (for APs to disband or move them) vice auto-upgrade?

Also, I think the morale increase means the ? mech Corps near the north Rumanian border can crack the Lvov Pocket now. I ran and re ran this attack in a PBEM game ( after I had finished and emailed the turn of course) and every time the Pz Regiments were pushed aside. I am assuming the three Pz Regmient blocking move is the standard for most Lvov pockets, so it's days may be over, at least on Turn One.

< Message edited by Farfarer -- 3/25/2012 9:52:11 PM >

(in reply to Tarhunnas)
Post #: 13
RE: War in the East v1.06.05 Public Beta - 3/26/2012 12:43:26 AM   
wadortch

 

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Thanks for getting the alternative GC scenario coded!

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Post #: 14
RE: War in the East v1.06.05 Public Beta - 3/26/2012 8:59:14 AM   
Geoffrey52

 

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thanks for sharing

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Post #: 15
RE: War in the East v1.06.05 Public Beta - 3/26/2012 1:39:11 PM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 3150
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Farfarer
Also, I think the morale increase means the ? mech Corps near the north Rumanian border can crack the Lvov Pocket now. I ran and re ran this attack in a PBEM game ( after I had finished and emailed the turn of course) and every time the Pz Regiments were pushed aside. I am assuming the three Pz Regmient blocking move is the standard for most Lvov pockets, so it's days may be over, at least on Turn One.


Morale increase? What have I missed?

_____________________________

Read my AAR:s ye mighty, and despair!
41Ger
41Sov
41Ger
42Ger
42Sov

(in reply to Farfarer)
Post #: 16
RE: War in the East v1.06.05 Public Beta - 3/26/2012 3:39:45 PM   
Farfarer

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas


quote:

ORIGINAL: Farfarer
Also, I think the morale increase means the ? mech Corps near the north Rumanian border can crack the Lvov Pocket now. I ran and re ran this attack in a PBEM game ( after I had finished and emailed the turn of course) and every time the Pz Regiments were pushed aside. I am assuming the three Pz Regmient blocking move is the standard for most Lvov pockets, so it's days may be over, at least on Turn One.


Morale increase? What have I missed?


From Flavius:

Soviet at start morale is randomized, and each game will yield different results for your starting units. Sometimes dramatically so. Although on average you can expect Western and NW Fronts to be garbage and SW Front and the interior reserve armies to be somewhat better.



(in reply to Tarhunnas)
Post #: 17
RE: War in the East v1.06.05 Public Beta - 3/26/2012 6:28:40 PM   
Schmart

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Loveridge
5. 42 Separate Tank Battalion (OB 241) no longer upgrades to Tank Regiment and Last Year/Last Month changed to 43/12 (historically these battalions were disbanded or used to form tank brigades).


Are you guys sure this is completely historical, that NO Tank Bns were upgraded to Regts?

Seriously, why not just make a historical Soviet OOB so we don't have to deal with all this minute micromanagement. Like really, we're micromanaging Soviet Tank Bns!?

If you want to make it historical, have a function to allow 2-3 Tank Bns to be merged to form a Tank Bde. Also allow 3-4 Art Regts to form an Art Bde. Allow 3-4 Art Bdes to form an Art Div. Allow Tank Regts to convert to SU Regts. Allow Naval Rifle Bdes to form Rifle Divisions. Allow for the historical creation and use of ski units (the game really doesn't replicate the Soviet ski capability at all). Etc...There's lots of room to fine tune the Soviet OOB to match historical...

I know it's not easy to replicate the evolution of the Soviet Army in WW2, but this constant stream of building and disbanding isn't a good substitute for the HISTORICAL conversion/absorbtion/continuity that Soviet units went through. And frankly, it's becoming a waste of playing time to constantly build and disband, let alone the lack of historical information provided to players as to what we're actually supposed to build or disband.

I'm sorry, but the lack of an historical Soviet OOB is begining to turn me off this game. I don't mind managing my army, but to be micro-managing Bns in a game of this scale is a waste of time. If nothing else, create a roughly historical OOB for support units only, and let the players fine tune and manage the Brigades, Divisions, and Corps.

An interesting contrast is many of the recent patches, where the minutest of details are often changed in aircraft data, and yet the whole Soviet OOB is WIDE open...

< Message edited by Schmart -- 3/26/2012 6:42:04 PM >

(in reply to Andrew Loveridge)
Post #: 18
RE: War in the East v1.06.05 Public Beta - 3/26/2012 6:44:41 PM   
Schmart

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

There's one simple reason why so many changes are going into the aircraft data. It's that we have a volunteer that is spending a lot of time researching and improving the data. The impact on WitE may not be huge, but when we have an opportunity to improve the data we'll take it. This improved data is going over to WitW where much more programming and design time is being put into the air game. Rome wasn't built in a day.


If I'm willing to put in some volunteer time, is there a chance we could develop a somewhat more historical Soviet OOB?

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 19
RE: War in the East v1.06.05 Public Beta - 3/26/2012 7:20:19 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 21046
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The design decision was made a long time ago to allow the Soviets to build and manage their army development over time after 1941. Of course the editor can be used to try to create a historical Soviet reinforcment system which together with some house rules (altering APs and Soviet build ability) could alter this dynamic. While we'd be interested in improvements in the 1941 reinforcement list (which is the part that is fixed, other than the destroyed units returning), I'm not sure that's what you're talking about, so you'd need to be more specific regarding what you're looking to develop. You're welcome to email 2by3@2by3games.com with more specifics.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Schmart)
Post #: 20
RE: War in the East v1.06.05 Public Beta - 3/26/2012 7:48:18 PM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 3150
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From: Hex X37, Y15
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Farfarer


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas


quote:

ORIGINAL: Farfarer
Also, I think the morale increase means the ? mech Corps near the north Rumanian border can crack the Lvov Pocket now. I ran and re ran this attack in a PBEM game ( after I had finished and emailed the turn of course) and every time the Pz Regiments were pushed aside. I am assuming the three Pz Regmient blocking move is the standard for most Lvov pockets, so it's days may be over, at least on Turn One.


Morale increase? What have I missed?


From Flavius:

Soviet at start morale is randomized, and each game will yield different results for your starting units. Sometimes dramatically so. Although on average you can expect Western and NW Fronts to be garbage and SW Front and the interior reserve armies to be somewhat better.



Yes, but that was several upgrades ago, wasn't it? I thought there was a new morale change that I'd missed.

_____________________________

Read my AAR:s ye mighty, and despair!
41Ger
41Sov
41Ger
42Ger
42Sov

(in reply to Farfarer)
Post #: 21
RE: War in the East v1.06.05 Public Beta - 3/26/2012 7:52:39 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 21046
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Yes, I'm showing the randomness was brought in back on November 2 (in public beta 1.05.39).

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Post #: 22
RE: War in the East v1.06.05 Public Beta - 3/27/2012 11:15:51 AM   
delatbabel


Posts: 1242
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From: Sydney, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

The design decision was made a long time ago to allow the Soviets to build and manage their army development over time after 1941. Of course the editor can be used to try to create a historical Soviet reinforcment system which together with some house rules (altering APs and Soviet build ability) could alter this dynamic. While we'd be interested in improvements in the 1941 reinforcement list (which is the part that is fixed, other than the destroyed units returning), I'm not sure that's what you're talking about, so you'd need to be more specific regarding what you're looking to develop. You're welcome to email 2by3@2by3games.com with more specifics.


It seems that the recent changes in AP draining expenses (the Soviets now have to manually disband tank batallions and create regiments, and also it appears that nearly all of the aircraft upgrades have disappeared meaning that if you want aircraft other than biplanes flying in your units by 1945 then you have to spend a lot of APs manually upgrading each air unit, plus the minimum AP cost to transfer a unit is now 1, up from 0) are starting to get incompatible with creating and managing army development.

Since we now have to spend extra APs to do all of these things, as well as build more HQs to spread the divisions more thinly since the CC changes, wouldn't it make sense to add more APs to the Soviet side? Or reduce the cost of some other things such as transferring HQs between fronts, building forts, assigning SUs, disbanding units, REACTIVATING UNITS FROM STATIC MODE, etc?


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Post #: 23
RE: War in the East v1.06.05 Public Beta - 3/27/2012 2:07:15 PM   
Denniss

 

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Which soviet aircraft upgrade paths have been removed?
There haven't been any for I-15 or I-16, we can't set them for MiG-3 and LaGG-3 as the factories diverted to multiple other projects.
I had thought about adding paths for I-15/I-16 to a 1942 aircraft type but I'm a bit limited in soviet air unit organizations and opt to not include it yet. I'm always open for suggestions backed up by historical data, maybe there's a valid upgrade path I could use for the biplanes.

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Post #: 24
RE: War in the East v1.06.05 Public Beta - 3/27/2012 3:03:24 PM   
Flaviusx


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Denniss, right now the only fighter bombers that will automatically upgrade are the relatively few Yak-1 regiments you receive in 41. Getting all the biplanes, Migs and Laggs into newer models is a huge AP sink, probably close to 200 APs.

So far as the tank battalions go, I think this latest change makes them not worth building at all.

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Post #: 25
RE: War in the East v1.06.05 Public Beta - 3/28/2012 12:00:27 AM   
Denniss

 

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As said, we can't install upgrade paths for MiG and LaGG as the upgrade path also affects factories - both MiG and LaGG-3 (except one) produced different aircraft after their initial run ended or after relocation.

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Post #: 26
RE: War in the East v1.06.05 Public Beta - 3/28/2012 1:20:26 AM   
el hefe


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The Tank Battalion change came around because there were still independant tank battalions fielded by the Soviets during Bagration. Originally, the game started automatically upgrading the Tank Battalions into Regiments in 1942 which meant the Tank Battalions completely disappeared and couldn't be used in any scenarios in 43 & 44 because they would automatically start upgrading. In researching this further, I found no examples of Tank Battalion expanding into their own Tank Regiments.

Trey


quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Denniss, right now the only fighter bombers that will automatically upgrade are the relatively few Yak-1 regiments you receive in 41. Getting all the biplanes, Migs and Laggs into newer models is a huge AP sink, probably close to 200 APs.

So far as the tank battalions go, I think this latest change makes them not worth building at all.



_____________________________

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(in reply to Flaviusx)
Post #: 27
RE: War in the East v1.06.05 Public Beta - 3/28/2012 2:45:30 AM   
Farfarer

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Denniss, right now the only fighter bombers that will automatically upgrade are the relatively few Yak-1 regiments you receive in 41. Getting all the biplanes, Migs and Laggs into newer models is a huge AP sink, probably close to 200 APs.

So far as the tank battalions go, I think this latest change makes them not worth building at all.


Heresy i know, but I find the Red Air Force composition essentially irrelevant - it is what it is - a huge blunt instrument. For all I care they can kamikaze themselves into the Panzers - is there setting for that ? Just kidding. I leave it on auto upgrade, take what I get and pound the LW and Ost Heer mercilessly. I only expend AP to manually control the upgrade of Transport aircraft - now there is something to think about before I am pilloried.

I am very grateful for the volunteer work to make the technical aircraft abilities as accurate as possible. Thank you Denniss :)

Now, the tank battalion bit is going to force a rethink, especially as my Axis opponent ( our 3rd GC together) is kicking my too agggressive Red ar*e, and I have become lazy in my SU selection.

(in reply to Flaviusx)
Post #: 28
RE: War in the East v1.06.05 Public Beta - 3/28/2012 5:17:51 AM   
Schmart

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: el hefe

The Tank Battalion change came around because there were still independant tank battalions fielded by the Soviets during Bagration. Originally, the game started automatically upgrading the Tank Battalions into Regiments in 1942 which meant the Tank Battalions completely disappeared and couldn't be used in any scenarios in 43 & 44 because they would automatically start upgrading. In researching this further, I found no examples of Tank Battalion expanding into their own Tank Regiments.


Upon further review, it appears most Tank Bns were absorbed into or used to form Tank Bdes. However, many Tank Bdes were then later converted to Tank Regts. By having Tank Bns upgrade to Regts was a very clever way of replicating this complicated evolution. Unfourtunately, we are now left with the time consuming and awkward process of building dozens of Tank Bns, disbanding them, building Tank Bdes, disbanding them, building dozens of Tank Regts...

For those of us wanting an historical OOB, it is a perplexing pain in the butt to create one.

If the intention of this change was to allow for the use to a handful of Tank Bns in 1944, why not create a "B" TOE Tank Bn for optional use (ie: scenario design) that doesn't upgrade to a Regt?

< Message edited by Schmart -- 3/28/2012 5:19:20 AM >

(in reply to el hefe)
Post #: 29
RE: War in the East v1.06.05 Public Beta - 3/28/2012 9:26:02 AM   
delatbabel


Posts: 1242
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From: Sydney, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Schmart
Upon further review, it appears most Tank Bns were absorbed into or used to form Tank Bdes. However, many Tank Bdes were then later converted to Tank Regts. By having Tank Bns upgrade to Regts was a very clever way of replicating this complicated evolution. Unfourtunately, we are now left with the time consuming and awkward process of building dozens of Tank Bns, disbanding them, building Tank Bdes, disbanding them, building dozens of Tank Regts...

For those of us wanting an historical OOB, it is a perplexing pain in the butt to create one.

If the intention of this change was to allow for the use to a handful of Tank Bns in 1944, why not create a "B" TOE Tank Bn for optional use (ie: scenario design) that doesn't upgrade to a Regt?


Alternatively just eliminate the AP cost to disband a support unit, or eliminate the AP cost to disband a unit that's marked as "obsolete" in the OOB. Mark the Tank Bns as obsolete on a certain date and the Soviet player can just disband them for free and build regiments and/or brigades. The actual tanks will cycle through the pool as they usually do.

Actually the AP system in this game has now become so complex that I'd be inclined to throw it away and start again.


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Post #: 30
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