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RE: The Rock

 
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RE: The Rock - 3/29/2012 1:56:58 PM   
aspqrz

 

Posts: 710
Joined: 7/20/2004
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OK. Found the save game file. But it's over 12 megs (closer to 13). And the biggest attatchment that the system here will handle, for PMs, is 2000k.

So where do you want it sent? And do you want the whole folder or merely some sub-files?

Phil

_____________________________

Author, Space Opera (FGU); RBB #1 (FASA); Road to Armageddon; Farm, Forge and Steam; Orbis Mundi; Displaced (PGD)
----------------------------------------------
Email: aspqrz@tpg.com.au

(in reply to Rasputitsa)
Post #: 61
RE: The Rock - 3/29/2012 2:14:47 PM   
aspqrz

 

Posts: 710
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline
Sure, "This game gives you control of production, allocation of resources, unit build, etc., control means choices and change. It means things are not necessarily going to be like what happened in the real war. The player can make different choices, that's why we play the game, If we can't make choices, what's the point"

However, as I have tried to point out, what it also does is give far too many PPs ... or make units far too cheap and far too quick to produce (take your pick) in ways that actually make a mockery of the actual resources available to the Germans (and everyone else, of course).

If it was just a matter of shifting around the actual resources that were available, I'd be outrageously happy ... but it's not. It creates far too many resources, at levels that simply didn't and, worse, couldn't, exist in the real world that actually existed.

Problem is, the game's whole resource system needs to be cut back massively, for all sides.

Not only are units too cheap, they produce to quickly ... a typical Division (based on US experience) took around a year and a half to work up from cadre stage + recruits to fully combat ready. In ToF it's what, a month? Six weeks?

Major surface combatants, even under wartime conditions, even using allied "mass production" techniques, took *years*. I forget the figures for all classes, but, typically, for a BB, around 2.5-3 years IIRC. Add another year "working up" the crew to combat ready status.

Really, the game should start in 1935, maybe 1937 at the latest, and the first several years should all be about producing and training the units that both sides historically started the game with, and with the rest of the pre-war unit starts "in the pipeline" ... like in Grigsby's World at War/WaW A World Divided, sort of.

That would be a good start.

Then, of course, the number of PPs needs to be reduced dramatically for all. Or the number of units you can produce needs to be limited in some way that reflects actual resources available.

Rather than a unit cap, hard coded, perhaps, if it could be done, tie specific units to be produced by specific cities, and place them in queues, with a limited number being capable of being produced simultaneously.

You could, for example, practically limit German naval production to realistic levels by, say, having only one surface naval unit slot available at a couple of the port cities, and a slightly larger number of SS slots. Luftwaffe and Armour/Mech slots should, likewise, be limited to specific cities and limited in number capable of being produced simultaneously.

Yes, I know, this is probably not doable ... but reducing the PPs massively is. And you could, at least, make (for example) German or Italian CVs and major surface combatants deliberately prohibitively expensive in terms of time and PP cost to reflect the real world constraints, and have the appearance of German pre-war laid down CV Hulls as active combatants be an event, with a huge PP hit attached (and still with a "couple of years down the track" appearance.

Some, at least, of the above should be possible.

Your fantasy scenarios are fine with me, just allow as how I want something resembling reality ... and I doubt I am completely alone.

YMMV.

Phil

_____________________________

Author, Space Opera (FGU); RBB #1 (FASA); Road to Armageddon; Farm, Forge and Steam; Orbis Mundi; Displaced (PGD)
----------------------------------------------
Email: aspqrz@tpg.com.au

(in reply to Rasputitsa)
Post #: 62
RE: The Rock - 3/29/2012 2:17:25 PM   
aspqrz

 

Posts: 710
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline
As for U-Boats passing through the Straits of Gibraltar, simple roll ... 15% chance of being sunk outright and a 30% chance of being so severely damaged they need to return to port. Do it by event card, perhaps. Spend the PPs for the cost of the SSs and, if the roll is OK, have one appear in the sea zone on whichever side of the strait is appropriate.

Dunno whether this could be done or not, though.

Phil

_____________________________

Author, Space Opera (FGU); RBB #1 (FASA); Road to Armageddon; Farm, Forge and Steam; Orbis Mundi; Displaced (PGD)
----------------------------------------------
Email: aspqrz@tpg.com.au

(in reply to Rasputitsa)
Post #: 63
RE: The Rock - 3/29/2012 4:38:16 PM   
Rasputitsa


Posts: 1695
Joined: 6/30/2001
From: Bedfordshire UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aspqrz
Your fantasy scenarios are fine with me, just allow as how I want something resembling reality ... and I doubt I am completely alone.

YMMV.

Phil

Phil, Surely you would have absorbed by now, that you are not the only one who is interested in historical accuracy, but we have to work with what we've got. There is more than one way to enjoy this game, I am impressed with how flexible the game is and have been interested from the beginning in the mods and scenarios that have been produced, each one adding something to the pot.

I don't have a one dimensional view of the game and have never objected to any proposed change, except to ask for some changes to be introduced as options, so we can have as much choice as possible in the way the game looks and works. So, it's not a matter of 'allowing' anything, I would support the introduction of scenarios and settings which allow players to choose their own best set-up.

I look on the whole of gaming to be a fantasy, it's just a matter of how you what your fantasy delivered.

Your point about production and PPs has been made from the beginning, the way I rationalise it is, that this is high level strategy at Presidential, Prime Minister, Dictator, High Command level. By the time matters reach this level much preparation and design work has already been done. Basic training, initial design, accumulating material stocks, tooling up is complete, as a High Command, you are calling forward already existing resources, deciding priorities and commissioning divisions, approving the start of production runs in line with your strategy.

On both sides, huge amounts of work and resources went into projects and designs which were never used, so to my mind the PP expenditure does not represent the total national resource and complete production process, but only the actual call-off as it is mobilised.

When you decide to mobilise an armoured unit you are paying in resources and time to take troops from reserves, vehicles from production lines already running, the time delay is for the delivery of the vehicles, the familiarisation and organisation of the men, before the unit is activated.

At the High Command level you mainly become interested when resources are close to deployment, this is not perfect there are many things in the game which happen too quickly, but if you start off with a game that takes forever to play, you instantly cut down the customer base, then you don't get any kind of a game and you are left with a market full of RPG shoot-em ups.

For those who want more and there are many, including me, there are mods, that, within the limitations of the game system, will get closer to what you are looking for.

< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 3/29/2012 4:59:09 PM >


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(in reply to aspqrz)
Post #: 64
RE: The Rock - 3/30/2012 1:25:24 AM   
aspqrz

 

Posts: 710
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline
I disagree almost entirely.

Units go from pay to deploy far too fast. They took long term planning, not immediate pay and deploy, to get into the field. At the very least, a typical Division should probably take a 50+ weeks to go from pay to deploy ... as it is, this is merely one of the side effects of too many PPs.

I understand why it isn't so ... the designers didn't want to (or couldn't easily) hard code the pre-war production pipeline for air/ground/naval units to get things under way at game start, which has problems of its own.

For example, the minor neutrals, even when human controlled, cannot build the forces (and deployments) they actually had on mobilisation when attacked or when they went to war. Simply cannot do it. Sure, they get a chunk of PP, but that doesn't necessarily represent what they were able to field, either.

YMMV.

Phil

Phil

_____________________________

Author, Space Opera (FGU); RBB #1 (FASA); Road to Armageddon; Farm, Forge and Steam; Orbis Mundi; Displaced (PGD)
----------------------------------------------
Email: aspqrz@tpg.com.au

(in reply to Rasputitsa)
Post #: 65
RE: The Rock - 3/30/2012 3:06:20 AM   
Razz


Posts: 2523
Joined: 10/21/2007
From: CaLiForNia
Status: offline
If you think there are too many PP's just bump it up the next level to Hard or Difficult.
I believe you referring to 1.0 as everyone has stated the reinforcement cost is so high in 1.01 it's hard to keep their forces at full strength.

Again allot of PP's can be used for the invasion of Norway which was left out of the release.

BB's are at 2 years
SS ~ 6 months
CA's are 1 year
CV's 1 1/2 years

quote:

ORIGINAL: aspqrz

Sure, "This game gives you control of production, allocation of resources, unit build, etc., control means choices and change. It means things are not necessarily going to be like what happened in the real war. The player can make different choices, that's why we play the game, If we can't make choices, what's the point"

However, as I have tried to point out, what it also does is give far too many PPs ... or make units far too cheap and far too quick to produce (take your pick) in ways that actually make a mockery of the actual resources available to the Germans (and everyone else, of course).

If it was just a matter of shifting around the actual resources that were available, I'd be outrageously happy ... but it's not. It creates far too many resources, at levels that simply didn't and, worse, couldn't, exist in the real world that actually existed.

Problem is, the game's whole resource system needs to be cut back massively, for all sides.

Not only are units too cheap, they produce to quickly ... a typical Division (based on US experience) took around a year and a half to work up from cadre stage + recruits to fully combat ready. In ToF it's what, a month? Six weeks?

Major surface combatants, even under wartime conditions, even using allied "mass production" techniques, took *years*. I forget the figures for all classes, but, typically, for a BB, around 2.5-3 years IIRC. Add another year "working up" the crew to combat ready status.

Really, the game should start in 1935, maybe 1937 at the latest, and the first several years should all be about producing and training the units that both sides historically started the game with, and with the rest of the pre-war unit starts "in the pipeline" ... like in Grigsby's World at War/WaW A World Divided, sort of.

That would be a good start.

Then, of course, the number of PPs needs to be reduced dramatically for all. Or the number of units you can produce needs to be limited in some way that reflects actual resources available.

Rather than a unit cap, hard coded, perhaps, if it could be done, tie specific units to be produced by specific cities, and place them in queues, with a limited number being capable of being produced simultaneously.

You could, for example, practically limit German naval production to realistic levels by, say, having only one surface naval unit slot available at a couple of the port cities, and a slightly larger number of SS slots. Luftwaffe and Armour/Mech slots should, likewise, be limited to specific cities and limited in number capable of being produced simultaneously.

Yes, I know, this is probably not doable ... but reducing the PPs massively is. And you could, at least, make (for example) German or Italian CVs and major surface combatants deliberately prohibitively expensive in terms of time and PP cost to reflect the real world constraints, and have the appearance of German pre-war laid down CV Hulls as active combatants be an event, with a huge PP hit attached (and still with a "couple of years down the track" appearance.

Some, at least, of the above should be possible.

Your fantasy scenarios are fine with me, just allow as how I want something resembling reality ... and I doubt I am completely alone.

YMMV.

Phil


(in reply to aspqrz)
Post #: 66
RE: The Rock - 3/30/2012 3:46:52 AM   
JLPOWELL


Posts: 409
Joined: 5/5/2011
From: Pacific Time Zone
Status: offline
Looks like I can agree woth both Razz and Phil (how odd)

Bumping the difficulty to Hard fixes much of the problem (unfortunately it then magnifies the Dungeon Treasure Events system.

Razz gives the examples of naval units build times which I agree are pretty much OK (a little short perhaps but its a game and the actual units are a bit abstracted particularly CA units which could be DD or CL or CA or a mix.

On the other hand Phil was talking about infantry divisions etc. And his points are equally valid and have MUCH greater impact on game play. Sure a scratch unit could be raised in 6 weeks but it would be more like garrison or militia than a true division. Some things are just silly like you can build 10 inf divisions in 4 turns but can't build a corps in the same time REALLY I think George Patton could turn 3 (or 4) divisions into a Corps with a phone and five minutes, and change them right back in 30 seconds if the commanders were within shouting distance. Practically speaking perhaps a day or two but weeks SERIOUSLY??? Turning a bunch of civilians into an infantry division is a WHOLE different thing.

So perhaps create a very slow weak garrison unit perhaps upgrade able to a division, and push the times out a bit or quite a bit.

And Get RID of the magic events which might cause a CV to 'materialize' or might just cause some $$ to 'materialize' UK CV under construction PUT IT IN THE QUE... no need for an 'event' --- Just my 2000000 cents worth.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Razz

If you think there are too many PP's just bump it up the next level to Hard or Difficult.
I believe you referring to 1.0 as everyone has stated the reinforcement cost is so high in 1.01 it's hard to keep their forces at full strength.

Again allot of PP's can be used for the invasion of Norway which was left out of the release.

BB's are at 2 years
SS ~ 6 months
CA's are 1 year
CV's 1 1/2 years

quote:

ORIGINAL: aspqrz

Sure, "This game gives you control of production, allocation of resources, unit build, etc., control means choices and change. It means things are not necessarily going to be like what happened in the real war. The player can make different choices, that's why we play the game, If we can't make choices, what's the point"

However, as I have tried to point out, what it also does is give far too many PPs ... or make units far too cheap and far too quick to produce (take your pick) in ways that actually make a mockery of the actual resources available to the Germans (and everyone else, of course).

If it was just a matter of shifting around the actual resources that were available, I'd be outrageously happy ... but it's not. It creates far too many resources, at levels that simply didn't and, worse, couldn't, exist in the real world that actually existed.

Problem is, the game's whole resource system needs to be cut back massively, for all sides.

Not only are units too cheap, they produce to quickly ... a typical Division (based on US experience) took around a year and a half to work up from cadre stage + recruits to fully combat ready. In ToF it's what, a month? Six weeks?

Major surface combatants, even under wartime conditions, even using allied "mass production" techniques, took *years*. I forget the figures for all classes, but, typically, for a BB, around 2.5-3 years IIRC. Add another year "working up" the crew to combat ready status.

Really, the game should start in 1935, maybe 1937 at the latest, and the first several years should all be about producing and training the units that both sides historically started the game with, and with the rest of the pre-war unit starts "in the pipeline" ... like in Grigsby's World at War/WaW A World Divided, sort of.

That would be a good start.

Then, of course, the number of PPs needs to be reduced dramatically for all. Or the number of units you can produce needs to be limited in some way that reflects actual resources available.

Rather than a unit cap, hard coded, perhaps, if it could be done, tie specific units to be produced by specific cities, and place them in queues, with a limited number being capable of being produced simultaneously.

You could, for example, practically limit German naval production to realistic levels by, say, having only one surface naval unit slot available at a couple of the port cities, and a slightly larger number of SS slots. Luftwaffe and Armour/Mech slots should, likewise, be limited to specific cities and limited in number capable of being produced simultaneously.

Yes, I know, this is probably not doable ... but reducing the PPs massively is. And you could, at least, make (for example) German or Italian CVs and major surface combatants deliberately prohibitively expensive in terms of time and PP cost to reflect the real world constraints, and have the appearance of German pre-war laid down CV Hulls as active combatants be an event, with a huge PP hit attached (and still with a "couple of years down the track" appearance.

Some, at least, of the above should be possible.

Your fantasy scenarios are fine with me, just allow as how I want something resembling reality ... and I doubt I am completely alone.

YMMV.

Phil





< Message edited by JLPOWELL -- 3/30/2012 3:47:00 AM >


_____________________________

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(in reply to Razz)
Post #: 67
RE: The Rock - 3/30/2012 3:47:51 AM   
JLPOWELL


Posts: 409
Joined: 5/5/2011
From: Pacific Time Zone
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JLPOWELL

Looks like I can agree woth both Razz and Phil (how odd)

Bumping the difficulty to Hard fixes much of the problem; unfortunately it then magnifies the ToF Dungeon Treasure Events System (TM Gary Gygax).

Razz gives the examples of naval units build times which I agree are pretty much OK (a little short perhaps but its a game and the actual units are a bit abstracted particularly CA units which could be DD or CL or CA or a mix.

On the other hand Phil was talking about infantry divisions etc. And his points are equally valid and have MUCH greater impact on game play. Sure a scratch unit could be raised in 6 weeks but it would be more like garrison or militia than a true division. Some things are just silly like you can build 10 inf divisions in 4 turns but can't build a corps in the same time REALLY I think George Patton could turn 3 (or 4) divisions into a Corps with a phone and five minutes, and change them right back in 30 seconds if the commanders were within shouting distance. Practically speaking perhaps a day or two but weeks SERIOUSLY??? Turning a bunch of civilians into an infantry division is a WHOLE different thing.

So perhaps create a very slow weak garrison unit perhaps upgrade able to a division, and push the times out a bit or quite a bit.

And Get RID of the magic events which might cause a CV to 'materialize' or might just cause some $$ to 'materialize' UK CV under construction PUT IT IN THE QUE... no need for an 'event' --- Just my 2000000 cents worth.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Razz

If you think there are too many PP's just bump it up the next level to Hard or Difficult.
I believe you referring to 1.0 as everyone has stated the reinforcement cost is so high in 1.01 it's hard to keep their forces at full strength.

Again allot of PP's can be used for the invasion of Norway which was left out of the release.

BB's are at 2 years
SS ~ 6 months
CA's are 1 year
CV's 1 1/2 years

quote:

ORIGINAL: aspqrz

Sure, "This game gives you control of production, allocation of resources, unit build, etc., control means choices and change. It means things are not necessarily going to be like what happened in the real war. The player can make different choices, that's why we play the game, If we can't make choices, what's the point"

However, as I have tried to point out, what it also does is give far too many PPs ... or make units far too cheap and far too quick to produce (take your pick) in ways that actually make a mockery of the actual resources available to the Germans (and everyone else, of course).

If it was just a matter of shifting around the actual resources that were available, I'd be outrageously happy ... but it's not. It creates far too many resources, at levels that simply didn't and, worse, couldn't, exist in the real world that actually existed.

Problem is, the game's whole resource system needs to be cut back massively, for all sides.

Not only are units too cheap, they produce to quickly ... a typical Division (based on US experience) took around a year and a half to work up from cadre stage + recruits to fully combat ready. In ToF it's what, a month? Six weeks?

Major surface combatants, even under wartime conditions, even using allied "mass production" techniques, took *years*. I forget the figures for all classes, but, typically, for a BB, around 2.5-3 years IIRC. Add another year "working up" the crew to combat ready status.

Really, the game should start in 1935, maybe 1937 at the latest, and the first several years should all be about producing and training the units that both sides historically started the game with, and with the rest of the pre-war unit starts "in the pipeline" ... like in Grigsby's World at War/WaW A World Divided, sort of.

That would be a good start.

Then, of course, the number of PPs needs to be reduced dramatically for all. Or the number of units you can produce needs to be limited in some way that reflects actual resources available.

Rather than a unit cap, hard coded, perhaps, if it could be done, tie specific units to be produced by specific cities, and place them in queues, with a limited number being capable of being produced simultaneously.

You could, for example, practically limit German naval production to realistic levels by, say, having only one surface naval unit slot available at a couple of the port cities, and a slightly larger number of SS slots. Luftwaffe and Armour/Mech slots should, likewise, be limited to specific cities and limited in number capable of being produced simultaneously.

Yes, I know, this is probably not doable ... but reducing the PPs massively is. And you could, at least, make (for example) German or Italian CVs and major surface combatants deliberately prohibitively expensive in terms of time and PP cost to reflect the real world constraints, and have the appearance of German pre-war laid down CV Hulls as active combatants be an event, with a huge PP hit attached (and still with a "couple of years down the track" appearance.

Some, at least, of the above should be possible.

Your fantasy scenarios are fine with me, just allow as how I want something resembling reality ... and I doubt I am completely alone.

YMMV.

Phil







< Message edited by JLPOWELL -- 3/30/2012 3:48:10 AM >


_____________________________

"Don’t you think that if I were wrong, I’d know it?"

(in reply to JLPOWELL)
Post #: 68
RE: The Rock - 3/30/2012 4:46:36 AM   
Razz


Posts: 2523
Joined: 10/21/2007
From: CaLiForNia
Status: offline
Try the 3rd Reich Mod.

Many of the ship problems have been resolved.

(in reply to JLPOWELL)
Post #: 69
RE: The Rock - 3/30/2012 5:00:30 AM   
aspqrz

 

Posts: 710
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline
US Division Slice

Pacific: 76000 men
17000 with Division
28000 in Combat Service & Support
11000 in Service units
20000 in CONUS

Europe: 60000 men
15000 with DIvision
15000 in Combat Service & Support
10000 in Communication Zone forces
20000 in CONUS

Of course, the US had the highest division slice of any combatant in WW2.

Average Ship Construction Times (Months)

Type Prewar US Prewar Jap War US War Jap
BB 35-42 33-61 32
CV 32-34 36-44 15-20 22-24
CVE 8 12
CA 32-38 40-50 24-30
CL 32-38 40-50 20-30 19-24
DD 13-14 24-30 5 12
SS 14-15 24-36 7 15
MS * 12-14 20-30 1 18-24

* Liberty Ship for US War

Note: The US figures, especially, would be skewed (Liberty ships, SSs and DDs anyone?) down because of mass production methods and (relatively) huge production runs that enabled them to get the construction times down. The decreases in time for CLs and larger are much smaller, as they were typically produced in such small numbers per class (or overall) that there were really no efficiencies of scale to be gained as a result.

So, for a BB ... 168 weeks ... for a CV ... 60-80 weeks.

For ships of all classes, allow an addition 8-12 months for "working up" after completion. That involves training and shakedown cruises that cannot be done until the ship has been launched, to get the crew (and ship) working together as a team.

So, for a BB, 168 + 52 = 230 weeks. For a CV 60-80 + 52 = 112-132 weeks.

Based on US experience, in WW2, it took 2 years (104 weeks) to take a cadre and expand it to create a combat ready division. The process went something like this ... individual training ... training by Platoon ... by Company ... by Battalion ... by Brigade ... by Division. All of it took time. Lots of it. There is some reason (disputed by some historians) to believe that the 106th Div performed so poorly in the Ardennes because it was the last Division to come out of the training cycle and had been rushed through the last stages in less time than was regarded as optimal.

I doubt anyone did it all that much better.

YMMV.

Phil



_____________________________

Author, Space Opera (FGU); RBB #1 (FASA); Road to Armageddon; Farm, Forge and Steam; Orbis Mundi; Displaced (PGD)
----------------------------------------------
Email: aspqrz@tpg.com.au

(in reply to JLPOWELL)
Post #: 70
RE: The Rock - 3/30/2012 5:05:58 AM   
aspqrz

 

Posts: 710
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline
No really. That's the one I have been playing.

The one with the five deep Infantry divisions making it impossible for the German Panzers to maneuver to attack on the Franco-Belgian front, so they've been grinding slowly forward at the rate of about a line of hexes a month, and its now December 1940?

Where most of the German PPs seem to have gone to build a Navy that, despite dozens of naval combats per turn with the RN, cannot be hit.

Well, I've managed to sink 2 Subs. And damage another 2. I've damaged one cruiser. And, apart from that, not a single successful surface gun or aero-naval attack against any German ship anywhere.

Don't seem solved to me

And that's with the Allies set on Very Easy, too!

Phil

_____________________________

Author, Space Opera (FGU); RBB #1 (FASA); Road to Armageddon; Farm, Forge and Steam; Orbis Mundi; Displaced (PGD)
----------------------------------------------
Email: aspqrz@tpg.com.au

(in reply to Razz)
Post #: 71
RE: The Rock - 3/30/2012 5:46:12 AM   
Razz


Posts: 2523
Joined: 10/21/2007
From: CaLiForNia
Status: offline
So you built infantry 5 rows deep? If the AI attacked early, there is a penalty
The AI spends allot on research.
Early in the game it it hard for either side to hit navy. The AI has their ships on evade which is difficult to hit. As your tech gets higher... it gets easier.
Try using commanders.
In my MP game. I have sunk two subs and got several more hits on subs. It's hard but can be done. All of this have been done by turn 6. I don't think I have hit anything in the last 4 turns.


(in reply to aspqrz)
Post #: 72
RE: The Rock - 3/30/2012 6:54:23 AM   
aspqrz

 

Posts: 710
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline
No. This is the German AI. Set to Standard Difficulty.

Allies set to Very Easy.

The AI has over 100 Infantry Divisions and only around 30 Infantry Corps ... don't recall offhand how many Mech/Armour Divisions/Corps, but a lot less.

And it is not very aggressive at all. It took several months to take Poland (Poland on AI Standard) and several months to take Holland. Currently (DEC 9, IIRC), they hold around 2/3 of Belgium, but I still hold Brussels (with a French Corps) and about half the Ardennes and some of the Belgian coastline.

On the Siegfried Line/Maginot Line I have actually been able to drive the Germans slowly back from the Maginot line, right up to the Seigfried Line ... all because the German AI is deploying mostly Infantry Divisions, it seems ;-)

I finally attacked in the east with the Russians, Poland and Romania ... most of Romania has been taken, except for Ploesti, the capital and one city in the west near Yugoslavia ... and the Germans are barely defending in Poland. Even around Konigsberg where they have a large and strong force and mostly i have very reduced strength Infantry Corps, they have made almost no attacks, allowing me to advance and cut rail lines and take city after city.

Just not very aggressive, I guess

Phil

_____________________________

Author, Space Opera (FGU); RBB #1 (FASA); Road to Armageddon; Farm, Forge and Steam; Orbis Mundi; Displaced (PGD)
----------------------------------------------
Email: aspqrz@tpg.com.au

(in reply to Razz)
Post #: 73
RE: The Rock - 3/30/2012 7:11:17 AM   
Razz


Posts: 2523
Joined: 10/21/2007
From: CaLiForNia
Status: offline
That's the effect of changing supply. Supply limitations have killed the AI.

It's worse in vanilla

(in reply to aspqrz)
Post #: 74
RE: The Rock - 3/30/2012 7:59:42 AM   
JLPOWELL


Posts: 409
Joined: 5/5/2011
From: Pacific Time Zone
Status: offline
Alas the AI is a bit of a chump (pretty hopeless actually) PBEM has potential though...

In defense of Wasteland as WW2 Game AI's (at the operational strategic level) go its pretty good, one of the better ones but still to quote Ford Prefect "Mostly harmless." as an opponent, and of course that an improvement over just "Harmless," which would have to be used to describe the ToW AI. Proof positive that things are looking up on the artificial enemy front....

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RE: The Rock - 3/30/2012 9:14:58 AM   
aspqrz

 

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Well, I'm used to the AI in WitP:AE, which can be nasty ... of course, haven't played more than 50-60 turns in the Campaign game for that, either ... and that's only 50-60 days, after all. I understand it all goes pear shaped after around 6-9 months, or starts to

Still, under plain vanilla GC (1.00, though) the AI was a *lot* more aggressive in the Low Countries and Poland. A *lot* more!

Still work to be done, I guess ... maybe in Time of Annoyance (PLatinum)?

Phil

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Post #: 76
RE: The Rock - 3/30/2012 6:44:16 PM   
Razz


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What is the effectiveness of the German units in May 1940?

Okay, I reduced the ability to build divisions with Germany. Hopefully tests will reveal better results.



< Message edited by Razz -- 3/30/2012 9:17:54 PM >

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Post #: 77
RE: The Rock - 3/31/2012 12:58:54 AM   
JLPOWELL


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Time of Annoyance Brilliant... I LMAO

BTW if its not clear to some many of the most critical posters (Phil and I for example) also LIKE the game a LOT.

quote:

ORIGINAL: aspqrz
...
Still work to be done, I guess ... maybe in Time of Annoyance (PLatinum)?

Phil


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Post #: 78
RE: The Rock - 3/31/2012 9:18:42 AM   
aspqrz

 

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Indeed. At present, Time of Fury is the only strategy game I am playing ... and I've even stopped playing Fallout 3 (Gold) to concentrate on ToF, though I must try and finally fit in some WitP: AE as well sometime soon

Phil

< Message edited by aspqrz -- 3/31/2012 9:19:05 AM >


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