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What did I do wrong? (No Cap'n Greasy/Greasylake)

 
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What did I do wrong? (No Cap'n Greasy/Greasylake) - 3/10/2012 2:40:02 PM   
vettim89


Posts: 3321
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Toledo, Ohio
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First and foremost, this is not an Air Combat is borked thread. I just has a situation in game that has me puzzled and wondering if it is just bad luck, bad tactics, or just making bad assumptions.

Scen: DBB 28B, September 1942

Base: Cooktown, Level 6 AF, 108 AV Support, two RAAF BFs both with RADAR, supplies at 26k

CAP: two Kittyhawk I sqaudrons, Air Skill all in the low 70s; ECP in the mid 60's. Fatigue in single digits, Moral 90+. Altitude 20k, 30% CAP, Cannot give you leader stats

What Happened:

Two raids of a mixture of unescorted G3M/G4M arrive to attack two small convoys offloading supplies at Cooktown. Air Combat Screen opens, flashes for literally one or two seconds, gives "Air Combat Concluded" message and Netties trash a bunch of xAKLs. Post attack air combat then pops up for a second and ends. Net result: no Netties engaged, none shot down. Second raid appears and repeats the exact same sequence.

I had no aircraft even engage in the pre or post combat phases or either raid. What did I do wrong?

edit for typos and to add info.

< Message edited by vettim89 -- 3/10/2012 2:51:52 PM >


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RE: What did I do wrong? (No Cap'n Greasy/Greasylake) - 3/10/2012 2:45:36 PM   
DOCUP


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I've had this happen to me before.  I accidently left my guys on training.  Another thought since you are prob smarter than me, and won't leave your guys training.  What was the Raid alt?  They might have got under your CAP.

(in reply to vettim89)
Post #: 2
RE: What did I do wrong? (No Cap'n Greasy/Greasylake) - 3/10/2012 3:29:37 PM   
Alfred

 

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Would need to see the Combat Report for a more detailed examination but here are a few preliminary thoughts.

1. The fact that you had a post attack air combat screen show up immediately suggests to me that your CAP was out of position to intercept the raid.

2. Both of your fighter squadrons were at 20k feet. It is most unlikely that the enemy bombers were set anywhere near that altitude and if they dropped torpedoes their final approach run in would be at 200 feet. It takes a fair while for fighters to dive down from 20k to 200 feet.

3. You only had 30% on CAP. That isn't much particularly when one considers that out of whatever is assigned to CAP, only 1/3 is actually up in the air at any one time. What this means is that you really only had 10% potentially immediately in position to meet the incoming threat (but see preceding points) but there are factors, such as die rolls which even then can result in whatever is already up in the air not engaging in combat.

4. If you assigned any part of the fighter squadrons to "Rest", that component will not participate in combat.

The key question is whether the radar actually gave you timely warning. That info is contained in your Combat Report.

Alfred

(in reply to DOCUP)
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RE: What did I do wrong? (No Cap'n Greasy/Greasylake) - 3/10/2012 3:42:41 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 7106
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: online
5. What range did you have your CAP set for?? I find you don't have to have them "recalled" if it is set for 0. I started doing this after reading some post by GreyJoy when he was trying to understand the A2A model better and he got more fighters on CAP when he set the range to 0.

6. The second air group should have been set at around 10k. Like Alfred stated, they may not have been able to get down low enough to attack the bombers.

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RE: What did I do wrong? (No Cap'n Greasy/Greasylake) - 3/10/2012 4:33:21 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 14773
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: online
...and regarding the timely warning, Nemo has posted various times on his using low altitude settings on attacks and finding that radar warning is greatly mitigated in those instances. This even before considering the release altitude that torpedo launching planes drop down to.

(in reply to ny59giants)
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RE: What did I do wrong? (No Cap'n Greasy/Greasylake) - 3/10/2012 5:59:09 PM   
vettim89


Posts: 3321
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Toledo, Ohio
Status: offline
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Sep 24, 42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Cooktown at 92,137

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 37 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes


Japanese aircraft
G3M3 Nell x 42



Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk IA x 10


No Japanese losses

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
xAKL Bidelia, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
AM Launceton, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
AM Horsham, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
xAKL Darvel, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
xAKL Lorinna, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
AM Cowra
AM Cootamundra
xAKL Caledon, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
xAKL Capitaine Illiaquer, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk



Aircraft Attacking:
17 x G3M3 Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 45cm Type 91 Torp
25 x G3M3 Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 45cm Type 91 Torp

CAP engaged:
No.75 Sqn RAAF with Kittyhawk IA (5 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(5 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
5 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 20000
Raid is overhead
No.76 Sqn RAAF with Kittyhawk IA (5 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(5 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
5 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 20000
Raid is overhead

and

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Cooktown at 92,137

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 38 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes


Japanese aircraft
G3M3 Nell x 13



Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk IA x 10


Japanese aircraft losses
G3M3 Nell: 1 damaged

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
AM Cootamundra
xAKL Melinga, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
AM Cowra



Aircraft Attacking:
13 x G3M3 Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 45cm Type 91 Torp

CAP engaged:
No.75 Sqn RAAF with Kittyhawk IA (5 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(5 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
5 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 20000
Raid is overhead
No.76 Sqn RAAF with Kittyhawk IA (5 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(5 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
5 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 20000
Raid is overhead

_____________________________

"We have met the enemy and they are ours" - Commodore O.H. Perry

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Post #: 6
RE: What did I do wrong? (No Cap'n Greasy/Greasylake) - 3/10/2012 6:04:32 PM   
vettim89


Posts: 3321
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Toledo, Ohio
Status: offline
FYI, CAP range was set at 6; so, that may be the problem. The other thing may be that technically the fighters were flying CAP over the base vice the TF. I am ssuming that is why the term "diverted" is used here.

I guess I am having a hard time grasping why the fighters didn't attack at all. Even if theyre was not enough time to get at the Nells before the attack, the post attack air combat should have yielded something.

Next turn I will reset the cap range to 1 and send another TF or two up that way. Perhaps my opponent will be flush with his recent victory and send in the TB again.

_____________________________

"We have met the enemy and they are ours" - Commodore O.H. Perry

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RE: What did I do wrong? (No Cap'n Greasy/Greasylake) - 3/10/2012 6:20:58 PM   
LoBaron


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From: Vienna, Austria
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Looks a bit like the range set was the issue.

Personally, at least if I do not fly offense missions with the same squads, I set range to the max
distance where I want the squad to intervene. In a triangle of 3 bases it is usually 1, at lone bases
it could be 0.

Your combat report shows planes out of position and no time to intercept attack ("raid overhead"),
is it possible they already intecepted other raids or navS/recon missions within the 6 hex radius?

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S**t happens in war.

All hail the superior ones!

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RE: What did I do wrong? (No Cap'n Greasy/Greasylake) - 3/10/2012 6:55:14 PM   
vettim89


Posts: 3321
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Toledo, Ohio
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

]Your combat report shows planes out of position and no time to intercept attack ("raid overhead"),
is it possible they already intecepted other raids or navS/recon missions within the 6 hex radius?


Don't know about NavSearch but no other missions near this base this particular turn

_____________________________

"We have met the enemy and they are ours" - Commodore O.H. Perry

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RE: What did I do wrong? (No Cap'n Greasy/Greasylake) - 3/10/2012 7:45:20 PM   
CV 2

 

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Bad luck on your part. Maybe bad commanders. Nothing more, nothing less.

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RE: What did I do wrong? (No Cap'n Greasy/Greasylake) - 3/10/2012 11:07:06 PM   
Sardaukar


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Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/now in Israel
Status: offline
Seems, like LoBaron said, that all fighters were caught out of position.

Bad luck, most likely. Can be mitigated to extent by leaders or reducing CAP range. But, these things happen when dice rolls wrong.

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Post #: 11
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