Matrix Games Forums

Join the Matrix Team at Historicon!Recruiting Privates for Germany at War: Barbarossa 1941!Ageod takes you back to the Civil War Battle Academy iPad and PC 50 per cent off!Close Combat Last Stand Arnhem v5.60.53 update Allied Corps Walkthrough playlist and AARConflict of Heroes: Ghost Divisions Released!Pandora Beta Playthrough VideosGermany at War: Barbarossa 1941 Announced!Great Battles Medieval coming to your tablet with a 50 per cent off launch sale!		 Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Road to Moscow 2.0

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Norm Koger's The Operational Art Of War III >> Scenario Design >> Road to Moscow 2.0 Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Road to Moscow 2.0 - 3/8/2012 9:09:28 AM   
HPT KUNZ

 

Posts: 130
Joined: 7/4/2002
From: near Philadelphia
Status: offline 		Greetings
Here is the latest iteration of Road to Moscow I. Crossing the Border. It uses an Attrition Divider of 14, and Maximum Combats per Battle of 3, thanks to the recommendations of Oberst Klink.

I have found I can consistently achieve a German victory, but it requires careful management of panzer divisions the last three turns to get past Minsk and capture the critical Berizina River crossings...

Naturally, feed back is much appreciated. Further scenarios are forthcoming.

rak

Attachment (1)
Post #: 1
RE: Road to Moscow 2.0 - 3/8/2012 9:12:16 AM   
Oberst_Klink

 

Posts: 807
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HPT KUNZ

Greetings
Here is the latest iteration of Road to Moscow I. Crossing the Border. It uses an Attrition Divider of 14, and Maximum Combats per Battle of 3, thanks to the recommendations of Oberst Klink.

I have found I can consistently achieve a German victory, but it requires careful management of panzer divisions the last three turns to get past Minsk and capture the critical Berizina River crossings...

Naturally, feed back is much appreciated. Further scenarios are forthcoming.

rak

Much appreciated Rob! I try to schedule an hour per day because atm I am in the process of re-vamping Kharkov '43 - A gallop no more, from scratch!

Klink, Oberst

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam
(Marcus Porcius Cato Censorius)

Visit the Gefechtsstand!

(in reply to HPT KUNZ)
Post #: 2
RE: Road to Moscow 2.0 - 5/18/2012 11:31:46 AM   
HPT KUNZ

 

Posts: 130
Joined: 7/4/2002
From: near Philadelphia
Status: offline 		Here is the latest version of Road to Moscow Series I. Crossing the Border, incorporating the Attrition Divider of 14, and Maximum Combats per Battle of 3 as suggested by Oberst Klink.
Several other minor changes to objectives, OOB, and movement bias.

Similar adjustments to Scenarios II. to VIII. are forthcoming...

rak

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Oberst_Klink)
Post #: 3
RE: Road to Moscow 2.0 - 5/18/2012 5:55:49 PM   
Oberst_Klink

 

Posts: 807
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HPT KUNZ

Here is the latest version of Road to Moscow Series I. Crossing the Border, incorporating the Attrition Divider of 14, and Maximum Combats per Battle of 3 as suggested by Oberst Klink.
Several other minor changes to objectives, OOB, and movement bias.

Similar adjustments to Scenarios II. to VIII. are forthcoming...

rak

It's on the test bench doc!

Klink, Oberst

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam
(Marcus Porcius Cato Censorius)

Visit the Gefechtsstand!

(in reply to HPT KUNZ)
Post #: 4
RE: Road to Moscow 2.0 - 5/20/2012 11:19:36 AM   
HPT KUNZ

 

Posts: 130
Joined: 7/4/2002
From: near Philadelphia
Status: offline 		This is the next in the Road to Moscow Series- II. Smolensk.

In addition to the suggestion by Oberst Klink to use an Attrition Divider of 14 and Maximum Rounds per Battle of 3; using similar logic for the Attrition Divider and MRPB modification to account for one day scale, the replacement rate has been reduced. This version also includes a number of Soviet OOB changes based of COL Glantz’s recent book Barbarossa Derailed.

Note that all of the play testing for the Series has been Germans vs Elmer, although it should be playable as human vs human or Soviet vs Elmer.

cheers
rk

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Oberst_Klink)
Post #: 5
RE: Road to Moscow 2.0 - 5/21/2012 12:05:00 PM   
HPT KUNZ

 

Posts: 130
Joined: 7/4/2002
From: near Philadelphia
Status: offline 		Here is the third in the series, III. Guderian Moves South. Again incorporating AD of 14, MRPB 3, and well as some changes noted in Glantz's Barbarossa Derailed.

As always comments and suggestion are welcomed.

rk



Attachment (1)

(in reply to HPT KUNZ)
Post #: 6
RE: Road to Moscow 2.0 - 5/23/2012 10:38:53 AM   
HPT KUNZ

 

Posts: 130
Joined: 7/4/2002
From: near Philadelphia
Status: offline 		IV. Kiev-

Kiev is a tough nut. And Guderian's left flank is vulnerable...

Attachment (1)

(in reply to HPT KUNZ)
Post #: 7
RE: Road to Moscow 2.0 - 6/14/2012 2:32:58 AM   
HPT KUNZ

 

Posts: 130
Joined: 7/4/2002
From: near Philadelphia
Status: offline 		Here is V. Bryansk and Vyasma. 1 Oct 41 Army Group Center now resumes the advance on the Road to Moscow. Initial objective: surround and destroy the second echelon Red Army. But the oncoming Russian mud, rasputitsa, could be expected in the next few weeks...


Attachment (1)

(in reply to HPT KUNZ)
Post #: 8
RE: Road to Moscow 2.0 - 5/3/2013 3:46:32 PM   
fulcrum90

 

Posts: 32
Joined: 4/27/2006
From: Madrid, CEE
Status: offline 		Thanks Kunz for the updates..

I´m playing again the serie. They´re funny but germans have serious troubles to win...With four scenarios played (mirror games)soviets have won all...Now I´m going to try Bryansk and Vyasma..let´s see

(in reply to HPT KUNZ)
Post #: 9
RE: Road to Moscow 2.0 - 5/6/2013 3:33:36 AM   
HPT KUNZ

 

Posts: 130
Joined: 7/4/2002
From: near Philadelphia
Status: offline 		fulcrum90,
thanks for the feedback. Good luck! Keep me posted.

cheers
rk

(in reply to fulcrum90)
Post #: 10
RE: Road to Moscow 2.0 - 5/6/2013 2:57:17 PM   
HPT KUNZ

 

Posts: 130
Joined: 7/4/2002
From: near Philadelphia
Status: offline 		fulcrum90, are these games against the po, PBEM or hotseat?
Although the scenarios are playable in all modes, I did the design with German-player vs Soviet-po in mind.
It is a challenge for a designer to develop a game that gives historical result. Should that be called a Draw? I did most of the playtesting using po vs po to give the historic objectives, and adjusted the objectives to call that a Draw, and worked from there.

Let me know what your experiences has been. It has been some time since I have played the first seven scenarios vs Soviet-po; I will take a look at these again. I am almost finished with playing RtM VIII "What if?" vs Soviet-po, and the Germans have taken nearly all of Moscow.

_____________________________

"Dedicated to the Allied and German soldiers who fought, bled, froze and died for their countries." by Trevor N.DuPuy, in Hitler's Last Gamble.

(in reply to HPT KUNZ)
Post #: 11
RE: Road to Moscow 2.0 - 5/11/2013 8:41:01 AM   
fulcrum90

 

Posts: 32
Joined: 4/27/2006
From: Madrid, CEE
Status: offline 		Hi Kunz

I´m playing your scenarios PBEM with a rough opponent. My impression is that soviets are too strong so that is very complicated for german player recreate historical results...in Crossing the border germans didn´t take Minsk, in Smolensk are halted outside the city, in Guderian Moves South were stuck crossing Input river, in Kiev got the breakthrough in the last turns and hadn´t time to surround the city...I agree with you that a historical result is a draw but with eight games playes we have three draws and five soviets victories (most of them OV)...Perhaps the problem is that your scenarios are complicated to play with the last patch because I see that is very difficult break the soviets lines...they resist till the end...german fatigue assaulting is higher than soviets´defending..I´m playing with your scenarios updated
Now, we´re playing Bryansk and Vyasma and looks that soviets are broken..but let´s see
BTW, thanks four your scenarios..I think that is a good serie..I like your maps and OOB. Good job

Saludos

(in reply to HPT KUNZ)
Post #: 12
RE: Road to Moscow 2.0 - 5/16/2013 2:31:13 AM   
HPT KUNZ

 

Posts: 130
Joined: 7/4/2002
From: near Philadelphia
Status: offline 		Hi Fulcrum90
I appreciate you feedback.

Indeed it is not easy to design a scenario that is balanced for play vs PO as well as PBEM. I have designed the series as a German player vs Soviet PO in mind. The Germans have a reasonable chance of a attaining the historic objectives. So I am not surprised a good Soviet player is making it difficult for you! Based on your feedback I will revisit the scenarios and reduce the Soviet proficiency and supply. I feel the OOB and TOE, and equipment strength is reasonably accurate.

Incidentally, over at the Matrix Gary Grigsby's War in the East Forum there is considerable discussion that the campaign may be unwinnable for the Germans against a PBEM Soviet who simply retreats and conserves forces, rather than make the usually senseless attacks early in Barbarossa...How does a designer handle that?

I would be very interested in your results with RtM VIII: What if?. See the thread I posted not long ago, that has a screen shot and the latest version. It is a scenario that tests what would happen if Hitler had listened to his generals and driven straight for Moscow after taking Smolensk. Could the Germans do it with the forces they had in August, before the Russian mud?

I assume you are using the 4.0 versions of Scenarios I-IV I have posted earlier in this thread.

cheers


_____________________________

"Dedicated to the Allied and German soldiers who fought, bled, froze and died for their countries." by Trevor N.DuPuy, in Hitler's Last Gamble.

(in reply to fulcrum90)
Post #: 13
RE: Road to Moscow 2.0 - 5/24/2013 2:34:49 PM   
governato

 

Posts: 271
Joined: 5/6/2011
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline
Hey HPT, have you tried reducing the entrenchment and engineering rates?
If the average time it takes for an attacking unit to recover supply is larger than what it takes to the defender to get to Fortified status
one has a scenario that is biased towards the defense...

(in reply to HPT KUNZ)
Post #: 14
RE: Road to Moscow 2.0 - 5/24/2013 11:47:38 PM   
HPT KUNZ

 

Posts: 130
Joined: 7/4/2002
From: near Philadelphia
Status: offline 		governato
Good point on entrenching.
I will take a look at that this evening...
thanks

_____________________________

"Dedicated to the Allied and German soldiers who fought, bled, froze and died for their countries." by Trevor N.DuPuy, in Hitler's Last Gamble.

(in reply to governato)
Post #: 15
RE: Road to Moscow 2.0 - 5/26/2013 4:29:23 PM   
fulcrum90

 

Posts: 32
Joined: 4/27/2006
From: Madrid, CEE
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HPT KUNZ
I assume you are using the 4.0 versions of Scenarios I-IV I have posted earlier in this thread.

Hi Kunz

Yes, we´re playing with your new version. Now we are with Bryansk Vyasma and battle situation looks more accurate..Soviets forces were trapped in Vyasma and Bryansk and germans have reached Obninsk-kaluga-Tula line...This scenario is being the most funniest of the serie..for both sides...Soviets have to do their best not only entrench and wait..
Hope to play RtM VIII: What if?...Our intention is to play all the serie..
Cheers

(in reply to HPT KUNZ)
Post #: 16
RE: Road to Moscow 2.0 - 5/26/2013 4:35:21 PM   
fulcrum90

 

Posts: 32
Joined: 4/27/2006
From: Madrid, CEE
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: governato
Hey HPT, have you tried reducing the entrenchment and engineering rates?
If the average time it takes for an attacking unit to recover supply is larger than what it takes to the defender to get to Fortified status
one has a scenario that is biased towards the defense...


Perhaps is a good idea..it´s very complicated remove soviets from fortified status. German assaulting forces get exahusted easily and soviets have few losses

(in reply to governato)
Post #: 17
RE: Road to Moscow 2.0 - 5/26/2013 4:44:40 PM   
governato

 

Posts: 271
Joined: 5/6/2011
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline 		I think the values should be set so that it takes at least 1-2 months to get to F status for a unit...both eng and const should likely be lowered.

(in reply to fulcrum90)
Post #: 18
RE: Road to Moscow 2.0 - 5/26/2013 6:42:37 PM   
Telumar


Posts: 1538
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: niflheim
Status: offline 		Kunz, i'm currently playing the latest release of your series vs the PO. Just finished 'Crossing the Border' as the Germans with an overwhelming victory, but it was a tough race until the very end. The 'trick' is to steadily and ruthlessly move forward with the motorized units, don't let yourself get distracted and ignore flank security. Marshall Elmer is pretty smart in putting things into one's way, but whenever it is possible to avoid battle, steer around the enemy and head east. However, sometimes it's faster to not steer around and push through the enemy. One just needs to know when..

I just started Smolensk where the PO has stopped me cold on turn 5 except at Polozk where i surrounded 22nd Army. Along the Dnjepr i crossed at various places, but there are too many Russkies out there to exploit the situation ..will have to wait for the infantry (who knows..maybe this might prove an error later in the game). I think this scenario will be very challenging.

I thought i'd just mention two issues i observed:

First one, a typo in part I (Crossing the border) where you wrote Herresgruppe instead of Heeresgruppe on the map. 3 times, around the exclusion zones.

Second: I think this is a deployment error - turn 1 of part II (Smolensk) of the series: HQ 20. Pz.Div. starts in hex 12/44 behind enemy lines:




Attachment (1)

_____________________________


(in reply to fulcrum90)
Post #: 19
RE: Road to Moscow 2.0 - 5/26/2013 10:27:48 PM   
HPT KUNZ

 

Posts: 130
Joined: 7/4/2002
From: near Philadelphia
Status: offline 		telumar,
Thank you for the two errors you picked up. I have them corrected on my master copy. You will no doubt find more and I appreciate the feedback.
Keep plugging away at Smolensk. I just did two po vs po runs; one a German victory: 21/57, and the other a Draw, 10/57. I may give it a go later this week vs Marshal Elmer.
Meanwhile I have been working on Korea 2013; po vs po testing gives almost equal number of ROK victories, Draw, or DPRK victories over ten runs. I will give it a go vs Premier Elmer-un this evening.
cheers

_____________________________

"Dedicated to the Allied and German soldiers who fought, bled, froze and died for their countries." by Trevor N.DuPuy, in Hitler's Last Gamble.

(in reply to Telumar)
Post #: 20
RE: Road to Moscow 2.0 - 6/3/2013 2:58:02 AM   
solops

 

Posts: 460
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Central Texas
Status: offline 		Has the download been updates?


_____________________________

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke
Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; if it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it. - Judge Learned Hand

(in reply to HPT KUNZ)
Post #: 21
RE: Road to Moscow 2.0 - 6/3/2013 3:35:20 PM   
HPT KUNZ

 

Posts: 130
Joined: 7/4/2002
From: near Philadelphia
Status: offline 		re updates
RtM I-V posted above (v4.) are the most recent versions. The most recent updates to VI-VII are pending updates, and I will post those when complete. I have completed the update of VIII "What if?", and I have done several human vs Soviet PO playtests. (see thread in AAR). Perhaps my favorite. I will post it after a few more tweaks.
cheers

_____________________________

"Dedicated to the Allied and German soldiers who fought, bled, froze and died for their countries." by Trevor N.DuPuy, in Hitler's Last Gamble.

(in reply to solops)
Post #: 22
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Norm Koger's The Operational Art Of War III >> Scenario Design >> Road to Moscow 2.0 Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.273