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China Air task Force - Da Big Babes

 
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China Air task Force - Da Big Babes - 3/4/2012 1:15:25 PM   
TulliusDetritus

 

Posts: 3810
Joined: 4/1/2004
From: Back to Reality :(
Status: offline 		Not sure if I have to start the thread on this section of the forum. Sorry if this is wrong place The truth is the question is related to a scenario, the Da Big Babes thing.

Well, I am receiving some American Base Forces (for example the 308 Base Force) in Southeast Asia. They are attached to the China Task Force command thing. Now... are they supposed to go to China itself (as per "history", design of the scenario) or these bases could be in either China and somewhere in the Indo-Burmese border? Right now the route is open but the Base Forces which will be arriving later will necessarily find the route closed. Soooo, should they stay in the Indo-Burmese border, despite the "China" thing on them? Or should I airdrop them in China and the big items should march (through enemy territory, Burma)?

Thanks in advance

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RE: China Air task Force - Da Big Babes - 3/4/2012 2:04:57 PM   
JWE

 

Posts: 6576
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline 		Those Base Groups can really go anywhere. Only reason 308th Base Group was tagged to China was because the 308th Bomb Group went to China. It's more for fun accounting than anything else. You can use them Indo-Burma, or wherever. If the HQ name thing is a bit jarring, there's no restrictions on any of the units, so they are easily reassignable if you want to keep accountability.

Do agree that we should find a better way of getting aviation support units into China, especially after Burma closes down.

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RE: China Air task Force - Da Big Babes - 3/4/2012 2:28:08 PM   
TulliusDetritus

 

Posts: 3810
Joined: 4/1/2004
From: Back to Reality :(
Status: offline 		JWE, your aviation support Base Forces concept is really elegant! On vanilla we had abstract base forces, here each air group (well, almost) has its own aviation support.

As for aviation support getting into China perhaps after x date (when Burma is supposed to be in Japanese hands) the units should auto-magically arrive in China. If that makes sense, of course.

Your scenario is a joy

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"Block is very important. If you think block is useless now it's ok. If you don't like block, why don't you take it with your face...?" -- Kung Fu master

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RE: China Air task Force - Da Big Babes - 3/4/2012 2:29:48 PM   
John 3rd


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Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		"auto-magically?" The created word made PERFECT sense to me.


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(in reply to TulliusDetritus)
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RE: China Air task Force - Da Big Babes - 3/4/2012 3:24:27 PM   
witpqs

 

Posts: 12396
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

"auto-magically?" The created word made PERFECT sense to me.



A friend of mine used that term a lot, along with the related acronym "FM".

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RE: China Air task Force - Da Big Babes - 3/4/2012 3:33:42 PM   
TulliusDetritus

 

Posts: 3810
Joined: 4/1/2004
From: Back to Reality :(
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

"auto-magically?" The created word made PERFECT sense to me.



I have used "auto-magically" (as opposed to automatically) because I don't know how allied personel got to China once Burma Road was closed. Land route: in theory they didn't enter China via the USSR. And the Himalayas... As for air, there were the famous transports. Still, what about big stuff: radar, motorized support, etc.?

< Message edited by TulliusDetritus -- 3/4/2012 3:36:52 PM >

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"Block is very important. If you think block is useless now it's ok. If you don't like block, why don't you take it with your face...?" -- Kung Fu master

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RE: China Air task Force - Da Big Babes - 3/4/2012 6:11:10 PM   
JWE

 

Posts: 6576
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus
As for aviation support getting into China perhaps after x date (when Burma is supposed to be in Japanese hands) the units should auto-magically arrive in China. If that makes sense, of course.

Your scenario is a joy

Makes total sense. And thanks; we're really glad you hate it so much Knowing how the code is supposed to work and actually seeing things in practice are two completely different things. Comments like yours are highly appreciated.

What I'm thinking is having, perhaps, half the actual airgroups that went to China - show up in China; in one of the Western bases so they can get redeployed at a player's convenience. The other half will have to be flown over the hump (if that's what a player wishes to do), or not (if a player wants to just blow off China altogether). That has two implications for the base support units.

For the airgroups that automagically show up, their base support units should automagically show up too. The conceptual justification is that instead of humping tons of bombs, a group is humping tons of tool boxes, spare magnetos, cases of oil, and a bushel of freezing mechanics. Now that means that support units show up with only "squad" type devices; AvSup, Sup, maybe some Engs. The other 'heavy' stuff is still in the TO&E, but just not in the unit. To get the heavy stuff, one needs to click on the 'take replacements' and that stuff will eventually get added in from supply - kinda like a piece-part delivery from a supply chain abstraction, yeah?

And for the groups that are "supposed" to go to China, but arrive in Aden, after Burma gets trashed, they can fly there, but their support units don't have wings. So the 'over the hump' transports will have to fly them. In that case, those units will have to be 'squad only' units as well. Once again, the heavy devices will have to get filled out eventually from pools and supply. Think that might work ok.

You kinda caught us short, because we didn't want to touch China with a ten foot pole, much less a twelve foot albanian, but you do raise an issue that we totally missed. Ok. Can fix. Let me know your thoughts. Don't want to just go off and do something; I mean, you put your pud on the table, so you are in this, now too. Your thoughts will be highly appreciated.

Ciao. John

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RE: China Air task Force - Da Big Babes - 3/4/2012 7:57:49 PM   
TulliusDetritus

 

Posts: 3810
Joined: 4/1/2004
From: Back to Reality :(
Status: offline 		Well, it's not really a problem to me

I won't be re-starting again (I hope). I have to calculate how many groups went into China. I have a really amazing PDF which I found on the internets like 4 years ago. It contains the history of ALL the American squadrons in WW2. It's not only the few groups in China after the AVG was disbanded. I'm thinking about the XX Air Force heavy bombers (based of staging in China for example). All these guys will need support, that the Chinese can't provide.

It's possibly an absurd cause though, as logistics are a nightmare (as it should be). Still, what was done in the real thing might be simulated. If I well understood, Roosevelt wanted to bolster the Chinese morale with those planes (so that was perhaps more a political than military decision).

So as I have said I will more or less calculate how many base group units I shall be sending to provide support for the air groups in China. I will send the base groups which currently appear at Aden to China (airdrop + marching through Burma, the Japanese AI won't care, I guess).

Cheers

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"Block is very important. If you think block is useless now it's ok. If you don't like block, why don't you take it with your face...?" -- Kung Fu master

(in reply to JWE)
Post #: 8
RE: China Air task Force - Da Big Babes - 3/6/2012 1:48:11 PM   
dwg

 

Posts: 265
Joined: 1/22/2008
Status: offline 		A lot of the US units despatched to the CBI theatre actually ended up operating in India for a considerable period, so automagically teleporting them into China isn't the best solution. It's a campaign in which airborne logistics was vital, so IMO the best thing to do is to try and reflect that. If it complicates things almost to the point of impossibility then I'd say you have it just about right ;)

Edit: Just went back and checked some of the data I've squirrelled away, and reminded myself that XX AF's B-29s actually did operate from Indian bases like Piardoba for nearly a year (4-44 to 2-45), and that the attempts to forward-deploy from there to Chinese fields for raids against the Home Islands proved pretty much impossible due to the logistics involved.

< Message edited by dwg -- 3/6/2012 2:26:14 PM >

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