Matrix Games Forums

Deal of the Week: Command Ops goes half price!New Fronts are opening up for Commander: The Great WarCharacters of World War 1Sign of for the Pike and Shot Beta!More Games are Coming to Steam! Return to the Moon on October 31st! Commander: The Great War iPad Wallpapers Generals of the Great WarDeal of the Week Panzer CorpsNew Strategy Titles Join the Family
Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

RE: Community Request - Customized Designs

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Distant Worlds Series >> RE: Community Request - Customized Designs Page: <<   < prev  1 2 3 [4] 5   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Community Request - Customized Designs - 3/13/2012 9:45:40 PM   
jlevans


Posts: 45
Joined: 2/14/2011
Status: offline
I understand. It takes a lot of tweaking to get it right. I've had to do my fair share of it.

What I was referring to were designs with 1 Fusion Reactor and 8 Assault Blasters along with engines, shields, etc.. I looked at the designs with all technology researched which should maximize the output of the reactor.

(in reply to Sithuk)
Post #: 91
RE: Community Request - Customized Designs - 3/13/2012 10:02:58 PM   
Falokis

 

Posts: 132
Joined: 5/23/2010
Status: offline
I understand that strong mining stations hurt a bit, but all my test runs have been with full AI and me not doing anything. Money is tight, but never a problem. I think keeping vital resources flowing works out better.

As far as the reactor power, I agree on the earlier frigates. They are meant to swarm enemies and prevent them from getting away. They often have hiccups in the power which causes their hyperblock to go down and thus giving the enemy a chance to get away. This is only a problem on one design and it is corrected in later designs. I was focusing on getting everything I wanted into a certain size due to it being a ship I expected out early in the game.

To the Devs: I uploaded a picture to give you an idea of what my problem is currently. It's a picture of the build rates and ratios done by the AI. It's 50% escorts and 50% frigates with nothing else being built. Anything else on the list were ships the AI found and not built. This is with my destroyer ratio supposed to be 35%



< Message edited by Falokis -- 3/13/2012 10:08:46 PM >

(in reply to jlevans)
Post #: 92
RE: Community Request - Customized Designs - 3/13/2012 10:33:25 PM   
Falokis

 

Posts: 132
Joined: 5/23/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlevans

I understand. It takes a lot of tweaking to get it right. I've had to do my fair share of it.

What I was referring to were designs with 1 Fusion Reactor and 8 Assault Blasters along with engines, shields, etc.. I looked at the designs with all technology researched which should maximize the output of the reactor.
Oh. I see what you are talking about. You mean the destroyers. I don't know how I missed that. I must not have paid attention when I edited from my modded version to general use. Going from Novacore to regular reactors leaves a lot to be desired. I'll re-up once I edit that.

(in reply to jlevans)
Post #: 93
RE: Community Request - Customized Designs - 3/13/2012 10:35:16 PM   
jlevans


Posts: 45
Joined: 2/14/2011
Status: offline
quote:

As far as the reactor power, I agree on the earlier frigates. They are meant to swarm enemies and prevent them from getting away. They often have hiccups in the power which causes their hyperblock to go down and thus giving the enemy a chance to get away. This is only a problem on one design and it is corrected in later designs. I was focusing on getting everything I wanted into a certain size due to it being a ship I expected out early in the game.


Interesting strategy. I must admit I've never underpowered a ship and then tested how much that hurt vs. the advantage of all that extra reactor space for weapons!

(in reply to Falokis)
Post #: 94
RE: Community Request - Customized Designs - 3/14/2012 12:57:16 AM   
Falokis

 

Posts: 132
Joined: 5/23/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlevans

quote:

As far as the reactor power, I agree on the earlier frigates. They are meant to swarm enemies and prevent them from getting away. They often have hiccups in the power which causes their hyperblock to go down and thus giving the enemy a chance to get away. This is only a problem on one design and it is corrected in later designs. I was focusing on getting everything I wanted into a certain size due to it being a ship I expected out early in the game.


Interesting strategy. I must admit I've never underpowered a ship and then tested how much that hurt vs. the advantage of all that extra reactor space for weapons!
Okay. Here is the final, final version. I added some power to the destroyers due to them probably running short in early stages. Frigates, I left alone. They didn't seem to be hurt as far as I could tell. I'm done with humans unless I get anymore good feedback.

By the way, has anyone had the same problem I have above with heavy ships not being made or am I just special?


Attachment (1)

(in reply to jlevans)
Post #: 95
RE: Community Request - Customized Designs - 3/16/2012 12:59:46 PM   
tjhkkr


Posts: 1823
Joined: 6/3/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sithuk

Erik: Dhayut ship designs attached. I've only created ships up to around T4 ot T5 as the game I have sourced my designs from was won by that point.

Erik: it would be useful when we sort by sub-role in the ship design screen to secondary sort by the last selected sort. For example, if I sort by name then sort by sub-role, it would be good if the designs were sorted by name within each sub-role.

WARNING TO ALL: Remember to select ALL of your designs before clicking "Save selected designs" at the top. Otherwise you'll only save the last selected ship design.

ehsumrell / tjhkkr / data: which race ship designs are you preparing and when will you have them uploaded?


Yes, I am: Imperial/Republic/Rebellion/Corellian/CIS

_____________________________

Remember that the evil which is now in the world will become yet more powerful, and that it is not evil which conquers evil, but only love -- Olga Romanov.

(in reply to Sithuk)
Post #: 96
RE: Community Request - Customized Designs - 3/16/2012 1:24:45 PM   
jlevans


Posts: 45
Joined: 2/14/2011
Status: offline
Here's my Boskara design file, v3.

This one was developed by doing an entire tech tree play through to get the 'Date Created' property in the proper sequence. While the AI still doesn't really accurately determine which buildable designs are the most advanced, I'm hoping the next patch will fix that problem, along with the Pirates being OP when using OD files.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to tjhkkr)
Post #: 97
RE: Community Request - Customized Designs - 3/17/2012 1:19:58 AM   
Falokis

 

Posts: 132
Joined: 5/23/2010
Status: offline
Ok. I have a few requested adjustments for the humans, so I did it. I basically cleaned up designs and made the ship size more in line with the tech age. I also added all the civilian ships. After doing that, I got pretty good at working threw ship building in a logical order. That lead me to go ahead and design Gizurean and Sluken ships.

The zip file contains human, Gizurean, and Sluken ships. I hope you enjoy. If there is anymore feedback; post here or PM me.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to jlevans)
Post #: 98
RE: Community Request - Customized Designs - 3/17/2012 12:08:12 PM   
Sithuk

 

Posts: 374
Joined: 12/17/2010
Status: offline
jlevans/Falokis: thank you guys, excellent work. I've looked through all your shipsets and feel I have learnt quite a bit already. I'll have to go through my Dhayuts designs and revise them again. Those starbases are looking intimidating, it'll be interesting to see how the AI copes with the extra maintenance costs. Taking down AI bases is going to be harder.

I think as long as the maintenance costs on the hardened mining stations aren't execessive it should ease some of the irritation from the single ship raids on remote mining stations. These new hardened stations which you've given destroyer class weapons and shielding should be able to fight them off.

Giving the AI much larger capacity passenger ships is what I do in my ship designs too. I find emmigration starts to become relevant and new worlds get up to pop sooner. (Now if only the AI would set tax to zero until they reached a given threshold I'd be a happy player. I'm currently manually setting all tax to zero to bolster growth but I know the AI players aren't so it seems an exploit of sorts - one for Erik to optimise?).

I play with max research costs so I am curious to find out how your mixed weapons designs will fare. I tend to have to specialist on one weapon type because the research costs are simply too great to do otherwise. I'm not sure how the AI will perform with your mixed weapons designs in a max tech cost game in comparison to a race who selects one weapon type and focusses.

Another four or five race design sets and we should have enough for a game.

Erik: How close is the next Beta? I wish to hold off running a playtest until the new code to have the AI design the ships which are missing from the custom sets, e.g. if a higher tech component is researched I'd want that in play right away rather than have to wait for all 5 or 6 techs to be researched to allow the next custom design to become available.

< Message edited by Sithuk -- 3/17/2012 12:32:08 PM >

(in reply to Falokis)
Post #: 99
RE: Community Request - Customized Designs - 3/17/2012 10:13:42 PM   
Falokis

 

Posts: 132
Joined: 5/23/2010
Status: offline

quote:

I play with max research costs so I am curious to find out how your mixed weapons designs will fare. I tend to have to specialist on one weapon type because the research costs are simply too great to do otherwise. I'm not sure how the AI will perform with your mixed weapons designs in a max tech cost game in comparison to a race who selects one weapon type and focusses.
On each of my ship and base sets, the races only use one shield, engine, hyperdrive, beam/phaser, and missle/torpedo. I even avoided things that required multiple research paths to obtain. I tried to simplify the designs because I thought the AI was supposed to research only what it needed to research to build these ships. If that was the idea, it's not working. Hopefully they will fix that next beta patch.

I would also be happy with pre-made templates for research order to help the AI. I already queue up all my research when I play, so the mechanic is there. I'm sure the Devs could do this easy if the AI is too difficult to fix.

(in reply to Sithuk)
Post #: 100
RE: Community Request - Customized Designs - 3/17/2012 11:18:08 PM   
jlevans


Posts: 45
Joined: 2/14/2011
Status: offline
I haven't yet found the magic elixer either in designing the OD file to get a more directed research path... I too am hoping the next patch fixes this as right now, the AI plays better using it's own designs than using the OD.

I also just watched my race design build only escort and frigate military ships the whole game even though the other size ships were available. I seem to remember seeing this reported recently, although this is the first time I've personally seen it.

(in reply to Falokis)
Post #: 101
RE: Community Request - Customized Designs - 3/17/2012 11:29:39 PM   
Shadow Tiger


Posts: 61
Joined: 2/18/2012
Status: offline
I'm playing around with the designs as I plan out the mighty Teeken armada, and something occurred to me.

What about Death Rays?
What about those nasty area effect equivalents?

Unless you create a design for them with this system the computer will never use them (if found). And if you do create a design, how would you set it up for the AI to use? Create two designs at every viable tech level, one normal and one with Ancient Tech?

(in reply to jlevans)
Post #: 102
RE: Community Request - Customized Designs - 3/18/2012 12:32:35 AM   
jlevans


Posts: 45
Joined: 2/14/2011
Status: offline
I believe it is Elliot's intention to add a capabilty for the AI to interpolate between designs, so if a DeathRay is discovered, the AI will create one, assuming there is enough of a gap in OD designs to trigger such a design. We'll have to see how that will work after the next patch.

(in reply to Shadow Tiger)
Post #: 103
RE: Community Request - Customized Designs - 3/18/2012 12:18:47 PM   
Sithuk

 

Posts: 374
Joined: 12/17/2010
Status: offline
I've finished re-working my earlier Dhayut shipset. File attached. I've only gone up to ship size 500, Titan beams, hydrogen reactors. I've typically won the game by then (I max tech costs so slow research). I'll expand further as time allows. For now its ready for your feedback.

I've designed bases to use torps and ships to lasers. The torp tech I research once I get to shatterforce lasers so the early bases use maxos/shatterforce until the torps come online.

State military transitions to hydrogren. Private stays on caslon to ease fuel availability.

The ship design AI doesn't seem to obsolete old designs. I have to manually tell it when a design has become obsolete due to a new tech. Am I missing something?

Why does the shipset AI keep creating Carrier, Capital and Re-supply designs even though I have created optimised designs. Doesn't happen with any other design class.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Sithuk -- 3/18/2012 6:36:11 PM >

(in reply to jlevans)
Post #: 104
RE: Community Request - Customized Designs - 3/19/2012 10:24:18 AM   
jpwrunyan


Posts: 445
Joined: 12/3/2011
From: Uranus
Status: offline
So correct me if I am wrong, but the devs are going to incorporate the best of these designs into the default of the next official release, right?

(in reply to Sithuk)
Post #: 105
RE: Community Request - Customized Designs - 3/19/2012 11:55:46 AM   
ehsumrell1


Posts: 2026
Joined: 8/17/2010
From: The Briar Patch Nebula
Status: offline
That's the idea JP!

_____________________________

Shields are useless in "The Briar Patch"...

(in reply to jpwrunyan)
Post #: 106
RE: Community Request - Customized Designs - 3/19/2012 7:13:22 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7108
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline
What I'd also like to see is an 'exchange' where we can trade designs amongst ourselves. After all, I can design ships for each race myself, but even so, I have a certain style and they are all going to be similar (due to my style). Now if there is a central place where I can DL other peoples designs for each race, then we can get some really diverse designs in the game.

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to ehsumrell1)
Post #: 107
RE: Community Request - Customized Designs - 3/19/2012 8:53:00 PM   
tjhkkr


Posts: 1823
Joined: 6/3/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7
What I'd also like to see is an 'exchange' where we can trade designs amongst ourselves. After all, I can design ships for each race myself, but even so, I have a certain style and they are all going to be similar (due to my style). Now if there is a central place where I can DL other peoples designs for each race, then we can get some really diverse designs in the game.


That would be fun...

_____________________________

Remember that the evil which is now in the world will become yet more powerful, and that it is not evil which conquers evil, but only love -- Olga Romanov.

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 108
RE: Community Request - Customized Designs - 3/20/2012 3:08:23 AM   
feelotraveller


Posts: 1005
Joined: 9/12/2011
Status: online
Yeah, 'design sets'?

I will do mine when I start playing again.  Can't face it right now with all the ersatz spaceport retrofitting I was getting.  Wouldn't say I'm holding my breath but I do hope this gets fixed in a patch soon.

(in reply to tjhkkr)
Post #: 109
RE: Community Request - Customized Designs - 3/20/2012 6:47:18 AM   
Shadow Tiger


Posts: 61
Joined: 2/18/2012
Status: offline
A bit frustrated at the moment, after spending some time on Teekan designs. Apparently if you get your whole set made for a specific role it's fine. But if you go back and make changes out of order then the most recently modified design becomes the latest. I just discovered this after going into a starting tech game to fix hab modules, then going back to a tech lvl 7 game to test more.

The starting mining bases were not the highest tech this time. Instead I had my starting design for mining stations, and my 4th (of 8) for the gas mining station. This is getting ridiculous! I'm hoping that going back and edit/saving each design in order then exporting to the design file will fix this. Will have to test it later.

(in reply to feelotraveller)
Post #: 110
RE: Community Request - Customized Designs - 3/20/2012 3:19:09 PM   
hewwo

 

Posts: 246
Joined: 4/22/2010
Status: offline
Bugs! I'm holding off on playing till they get fixed

(in reply to Shadow Tiger)
Post #: 111
RE: Community Request - Customized Designs - 3/20/2012 9:21:11 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 32881
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline
Hi everyone,

The new v1.07.13 Public Beta update is now available, which includes some additional improvements to the new design functionality based on your feedback.

Regards,

- Erik


_____________________________

Erik Rutins
Director of Product Development


For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to hewwo)
Post #: 112
RE: Community Request - Customized Designs - 3/20/2012 9:45:00 PM   
ASHBERY76


Posts: 1969
Joined: 10/10/2001
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shadow Tiger

I'm playing around with the designs as I plan out the mighty Teeken armada, and something occurred to me.

What about Death Rays?
What about those nasty area effect equivalents?

Unless you create a design for them with this system the computer will never use them (if found). And if you do create a design, how would you set it up for the AI to use? Create two designs at every viable tech level, one normal and one with Ancient Tech?



Please answer this!!!!!! Does the A.I use it owns designs with superweapons when they find them ingame.

(in reply to Shadow Tiger)
Post #: 113
RE: Community Request - Customized Designs - 3/20/2012 10:11:29 PM   
WiZz

 

Posts: 304
Joined: 9/28/2011
From: Ukraine
Status: offline
I suppose - no.

(in reply to ASHBERY76)
Post #: 114
RE: Community Request - Customized Designs - 3/22/2012 10:29:16 PM   
onomastikon

 

Posts: 182
Joined: 11/29/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: onomastikon

Thank you very much for these excellent replies. I am not a master at this, so may I pose a follow-up question here?

- I don't understand how to take into account every possibility. I mean, in some games, I will first research "advanced missiles" with my race, but in another game the same race might first research "advanced rail guns". There are so many contingencies. What I mean is: For "tech level 2" (which to me seems to be an ellipsis for a general level of advancement), there are hundreds of valid possibilities, am I supposed to build and save them all?!? That seems nigh on impossible. Sorry I really don't get it.
- I am not sure the automatic control still actually understands "automatically upgrade" and "retrofit" correctly: Sometimes I do not see the ships retrofitting, sometimes I get the popup to suggest retrofitting but I am not told what will be retrofitted how, and I am still not sure how to implement subroles (e.g. one cruiser with stronger defense and more shields and scanning, one cruiser with anti-planet abilities, one cruiser with anti-fighter, one cruiser with strong beams, and one cruiser with long-range missiles). Am I missing something?

Thank you very, very much


Sorry I am slow on the uptake here and I believe my poor little questions have slipped the attention of the wise ones here. I'd like to do my part and contribute something, but I need some help here: Am I supposed to design a ship for every single contingency, that is, Destroyer_techlevel1_got_missiles_first, then Destroyer_techlevel1_got_railguns_first, then Destroyer_techlevel1_got_bigger_hulls_first -- etc. etc. for all the dozens of possibilities for tech level 1, THEN I make Destroyer_techlevel1_got_lasers_second, etc. etc., so that for each tech level I am designing a thousand ships or so per subrole? Is this what we are supposed to do?

thanks much

(in reply to onomastikon)
Post #: 115
RE: Community Request - Customized Designs - 3/22/2012 10:32:13 PM   
Sithuk

 

Posts: 374
Joined: 12/17/2010
Status: offline
Designing for every conceivable tech research order is one conceivable route.

I don't recommend trying that.

Instead, I've designed for my preferred route through the tech tree. The AI is supposedly going to use the ship designs to help choose its research path. Elliot continues to tweak the code.

quote:

ORIGINAL: onomastikon


quote:

ORIGINAL: onomastikon

Thank you very much for these excellent replies. I am not a master at this, so may I pose a follow-up question here?

- I don't understand how to take into account every possibility. I mean, in some games, I will first research "advanced missiles" with my race, but in another game the same race might first research "advanced rail guns". There are so many contingencies. What I mean is: For "tech level 2" (which to me seems to be an ellipsis for a general level of advancement), there are hundreds of valid possibilities, am I supposed to build and save them all?!? That seems nigh on impossible. Sorry I really don't get it.
- I am not sure the automatic control still actually understands "automatically upgrade" and "retrofit" correctly: Sometimes I do not see the ships retrofitting, sometimes I get the popup to suggest retrofitting but I am not told what will be retrofitted how, and I am still not sure how to implement subroles (e.g. one cruiser with stronger defense and more shields and scanning, one cruiser with anti-planet abilities, one cruiser with anti-fighter, one cruiser with strong beams, and one cruiser with long-range missiles). Am I missing something?

Thank you very, very much


Sorry I am slow on the uptake here and I believe my poor little questions have slipped the attention of the wise ones here. I'd like to do my part and contribute something, but I need some help here: Am I supposed to design a ship for every single contingency, that is, Destroyer_techlevel1_got_missiles_first, then Destroyer_techlevel1_got_railguns_first, then Destroyer_techlevel1_got_bigger_hulls_first -- etc. etc. for all the dozens of possibilities for tech level 1, THEN I make Destroyer_techlevel1_got_lasers_second, etc. etc., so that for each tech level I am designing a thousand ships or so per subrole? Is this what we are supposed to do?

thanks much



< Message edited by Sithuk -- 3/23/2012 9:57:14 PM >

(in reply to onomastikon)
Post #: 116
RE: Community Request - Customized Designs - 3/23/2012 9:08:53 AM   
Litjan

 

Posts: 218
Joined: 3/27/2010
From: Butzbach, Germany
Status: offline
Sithuk is right - custom designing for every conceivable combination of "technology available" is practically impossible.

The biggest advantage to the AI with the custom designs right now is the starting designs. I find arming my initial mining stations and giving the first spaceports enough labs is changing the game in a big way.

The designs I encounter in the later game are "ok" - I think the AI would benefit more from making better strategical and tactical decisions than in improving the designs even more (although there is certainly room for improvement).


(in reply to Sithuk)
Post #: 117
RE: Community Request - Customized Designs - 3/25/2012 12:53:11 PM   
Sithuk

 

Posts: 374
Joined: 12/17/2010
Status: offline
Litjan: Good point on increasing the number of research labs on the starting spaceport. A better fix would be for Elliot to code in a number of starting research bases at the HW. The AI does fine for research labs later in the game. It is just the start that it suffers from.

(in reply to Litjan)
Post #: 118
RE: Community Request - Customized Designs - 4/1/2012 8:18:05 PM   
Lihnit23

 

Posts: 37
Joined: 10/3/2010
Status: offline
I evidently am doing something wrong.

I think I've followed all the instructions for creating and saving custom ships. I tried human freighters and the explorer, starting tech. However, they never load when I start a new game as the humans. If I manually load the file after the game starts, then the modified ships show, but by then it's too late if I'm supposed to start with my new ships.

I created a "designs" folder in my "x" theme folder in the "customization" folder. The file name is "human".

Help please.


(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 119
RE: Community Request - Customized Designs - 4/1/2012 9:21:46 PM   
Falokis

 

Posts: 132
Joined: 5/23/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lihnit23

I evidently am doing something wrong.

I think I've followed all the instructions for creating and saving custom ships. I tried human freighters and the explorer, starting tech. However, they never load when I start a new game as the humans. If I manually load the file after the game starts, then the modified ships show, but by then it's too late if I'm supposed to start with my new ships.

I created a "designs" folder in my "x" theme folder in the "customization" folder. The file name is "human".

Help please.


It's still in beta, so it's a little quirky. Make up to level 2 or 3 designs and see if the load. You could look in the designs tab in game under the "view all designs" to see if they just got automatically obsoleted. That happens to me sometimes when my designs are better, but the AI obsoletes them. This will at least tell you if the are loading up.

(in reply to Lihnit23)
Post #: 120
Page:   <<   < prev  1 2 3 [4] 5   next >   >>
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Distant Worlds Series >> RE: Community Request - Customized Designs Page: <<   < prev  1 2 3 [4] 5   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.113