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Operating systems - 3/2/2012 4:25:49 PM

hbrsvl

Posts: 1103
Joined: 10/2/2002
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Hi- Will WITP/WITPAE run on OS's other than Windows?

My wife and I travel quite a bit and the HP laptop I have is quite heavy. I'd love to get a really lite laptop such as some of the Apple's, but they won't run AE, AFAIK.

Suggestions, please.

Thanks, Hugh Browne

Post #: 1

RE: Operating systems - 3/2/2012 4:52:53 PM

Roger Neilson II

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From: Newcastle upon Tyne. England
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I run multiple AE's on my Macbook Pro with Parallels, works equally well with the other virtualisation packages. I run it, tracker and at times combat reporter along with a web browser all in what is called Coherence Mode (think multiple windows on the screen)

Not sure it would run on a Macbook Air though.

Was running happily with all the OSX 10 variants. Is almost runnable under Linux if you are a real geek.........

Roger

< Message edited by Roger Neilson II -- 3/2/2012 4:53:59 PM >

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Post #: 2

RE: Operating systems - 3/2/2012 6:45:33 PM

Crackaces

Posts: 2314
Joined: 7/9/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson II

I run multiple AE's on my Macbook Pro with Parallels, works equally well with the other virtualisation packages. I run it, tracker and at times combat reporter along with a web browser all in what is called Coherence Mode (think multiple windows on the screen)

Not sure it would run on a Macbook Air though.

Was running happily with all the OSX 10 variants. Is almost runnable under Linux if you are a real geek.........

Roger

A MacBook air has either an i5 or a i7 processor so as long as it is running an OSX 10 variant .. that is what is key although I understand 10.4 is not supported?

Parallels although only provides a Windows ABI/API over the top of OSX10.. that means all the virus / trojans etc vulnerable to Windows are also vulnerable in this environment ...

(in reply to Roger Neilson II)

Post #: 3

RE: Operating systems - 3/2/2012 9:04:28 PM

Grizzly

Posts: 11
Joined: 10/3/2008
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You could also try Wineskin Winery. I never tried it because I don't know if there is an installation limit for WITPAE and I don't want to waste them for test installations.

(in reply to Crackaces)

Post #: 4

RE: Operating systems - 3/2/2012 9:08:13 PM

Dan Nichols

Posts: 863
Joined: 8/30/2011
Status: offline

There are no install limits to AE. I only install once and then just copy that install to new directories.

(in reply to Grizzly)

Post #: 5

RE: Operating systems - 3/3/2012 12:10:07 AM

wdolson

Posts: 7032
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline

You need some kind of Windows or Windows emulator to run AE. It will run on Linux under WINE. To run on a Mac, you need some form of Windows too. You can run BootCamp with a Windows installation, or Parallels.

BTW, I read an article about a year ago on which companies are best and which are worse for security. Microsoft used to be the worst, but they have done quite a bit to tighten up security with their products. MS is now among the best. Currently the worst two for security are Apple and Adobe. The only reason Macs aren't riddled with viruses is because virus writers don't generally bother targeting minority operating systems.

Bill

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WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer

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Post #: 6

RE: Operating systems - 3/3/2012 4:24:43 PM

Grizzly

Posts: 11
Joined: 10/3/2008
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I've done some testing on my Mac with Wineskin.
I had no problem with the game and patch installation.
The game runs without a problem.

There are two things I still have some problems with.
-No sound
-Some of the 'Command Line Switches' don't work (eg px and py)

I'll continue testing and post my results.

(in reply to wdolson)

Post #: 7

RE: Operating systems - 3/3/2012 9:09:10 PM

Crackaces

Posts: 2314
Joined: 7/9/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

...BTW, I read an article about a year ago on which companies are best and which are worse for security.� Microsoft used to be the worst, but they have done quite a bit to tighten up security with their products.� MS is now among the best.� Currently the worst two for security are Apple and Adobe.� The only reason Macs aren't riddled with viruses is because virus writers don't generally bother targeting minority operating systems.

Bill

I am thinking you mean malware in general not specifically virus ..

I'm not sure how much you understand about operating systems / ABI's or API's but OSX is derivied from a BSD Unix hybrid is not vulnerable to virus because of fundemental architecture differences .... Simply, implating executable code in the middle of a binary does not work on OSX because the MAGIC number/CRC would no longer match and the exec would never get loaded .. in Windows the ABI never made such a specification. Second, OSX kernel and applications run in two seperate VM spaces. Any addressing of phyiscal memory is only done through a KDI ... with all appications running in Intel non-privdged mode .. it is still quite possible for me to address phyiscal memory in windows that only "Admin rights" protect, and what games do you have that have to run in Admin mode?

One can be infected with Malware such as a Trojan Horse and or a Worm .. but installing a virus is impossible ..

The defensefor Mac from malware continues to be to seperate the hardware servives in privledged mode and ensure all applications run in non-prividleged mode but it is possible for a Trojan horse to circumvent this ..just a lot harder ..

(in reply to wdolson)

Post #: 8

RE: Operating systems - 3/4/2012 12:01:25 AM

wdolson

Posts: 7032
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

...BTW, I read an article about a year ago on which companies are best and which are worse for security.� Microsoft used to be the worst, but they have done quite a bit to tighten up security with their products.� MS is now among the best.� Currently the worst two for security are Apple and Adobe.� The only reason Macs aren't riddled with viruses is because virus writers don't generally bother targeting minority operating systems.

Bill

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces
I am thinking you mean malware in general not specifically virus ..

I'm not sure how much you understand about operating systems / ABI's or API's but OSX is derivied from a BSD Unix hybrid is not vulnerable to virus because of fundemental architecture differences ....

Let's see, I have a degree in Electronic Engineering and I've worked as a programmer for 25 years, most of that time at very low levels. Many times down at the hardware programming levels. I know operating systems somewhat intimately.

There is not an OS in existence that does not have vulnerabilities. Though most UNIX related kernels are better than others. All major OSs in use today (including Windows NT) have their roots in UNIX in one way or another. Microsoft modified the kernel for NT quite a bit.

quote:

Simply, implating executable code in the middle of a binary does not work on OSX because the MAGIC number/CRC would no longer match and the exec would never get loaded .. in Windows the ABI never made such a specification. Second, OSX kernel and applications run in two seperate VM spaces. Any addressing of phyiscal memory is only done through a KDI ... with all appications running in Intel non-privdged mode .. it is still quite possible for me to address phyiscal memory in windows that only "Admin rights" protect, and what games do you have that have to run in Admin mode?

One can be infected with Malware such as a Trojan Horse and or a Worm .. but installing a virus is impossible ..

The defensefor Mac from malware continues to be to seperate the hardware servives in privledged mode and ensure all applications run in non-prividleged mode but it is possible for a Trojan horse to circumvent this ..just a lot harder ..

In recent years Microsoft has tightened up their practices to a point where they are now better than Apple. Microsoft is still a more common target because Windows is much more common.

I looked for the article I read, but I can't find it. I think it was a tech e-mail newsletter I get, so it's probably been deleted.

Bill

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Post #: 9

RE: Operating systems - 3/4/2012 7:47:24 PM

Crackaces

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Joined: 7/9/2011
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quote:

Let's see, I have a degree in Electronic Engineering and I've worked as a programmer for 25 years, most of that time at very low levels. Many times down at the hardware programming levels. I know operating systems somewhat intimately.

There is not an OS in existence that does not have vulnerabilities. Though most UNIX related kernels are better than others. All major OSs in use today (including Windows NT) have their roots in UNIX in one way or another. Microsoft modified the kernel for NT quite a bit.

Let's see I worked for Bell Labs/ Lucent as a Systems Architect for UNIX ..1991 -- 2002 ... From my standpoint and working with the AT&T 2NCP project as well as moving Telecomunications from 5EES to Softswtiches ... I would say actually there is a UNIX that presents very very little vulnerability. B2 POSIX .. the problem is of course as we move toward A1 POSIX the ability to install and do anything becomes impossible, and the amount of admin increases greatly. No average joe and certainly no software manufacture wants the added costs and so .. we have what we have today ..One might refer to the problems of phyiscal security, which just happened to NASA.

I do run Windows .. but as a platform It is a very poor design ..I control the websites I access, have a firewall, virus protection that simply uses a genitic algorithum to match past threats .. and six months ago malware changed all the file attributes to hidden on my harddrive.

That is a lot tougher to do on a UNIX based system.

Actually I might suggest Multics and UNIX share the same concepts for the day .. a Process running in its own virtual space sharing kernel resources. The Kernel reosources are only acted upon by trusted sources. The problem comes for Windows is this concept of shared .DDL that can link during runtime and anybody installing code that can directly access kernel resources . ...including simply inserting code into one of these .DLL .. UNIX does this at compile/link time in the concept of shared libraires ...a little more protection in my mind ..

I might also address this from the standpoint of User Mode and Privileged Mode .. not only from the standpoint of the processor but the standpoint of policies that prevent applications from installing executable code that run in Privileged Mode. How many games do you have on Winodws that require install "Admin" so the game can access systems services? ...That indicates a huge policy and design problem IMHO ..

Now on the subject .. once somebody installs a Windows virtual system on their system they now open themsevles up to every vulnerablity of the Windows operating system and many of these policy / design protections offered by really seperating User Mode and Privileged Mode go away ..

Ahh but I concide to others . as I have switched careers to the medical field ..

(in reply to wdolson)

Post #: 10

RE: Operating systems - 3/4/2012 11:39:44 PM

wdolson

Posts: 7032
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
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I hate the interface changes with both Vista and Win 7, but from what I've read about the internal architecture, there are a number of internal changes that close off major exploit vectors.

Many moons ago I knew someone who had worked on Windows NT 4. He was quite shocked at the security holes they had to create to allow DirectX to work. Without something like DirectX, most games would be way too slow under Windows.

Back in the 90s I worked as a contractor at a medical instrument company in the Seattle area. The place was run by an immigrant from Argentina who was of Italian descent. His family left Italy under mysterious circumstances in 1945. He ran the place like Mussolini. It was the worst work environment I've ever experienced. At one time there was a web page for survivors of the place.

Bill

_____________________________

WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer

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Post #: 11

RE: Operating systems - 3/5/2012 12:45:16 AM

CV 2

Posts: 374
Joined: 2/21/2011
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Always fun watching a "my E-penis is longer than your E-penis" debate

Rage on!

(BTW Crackaces, I wrote telemetry code for JPL back in the late 70s that went into the shuttle program, but I wouldnt claim that my knowledge of 1980 systems is relevant to todays systems. What you did in 2002 was outdated in 2005

)

< Message edited by CV 2 -- 3/5/2012 12:49:54 AM >

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Post #: 12

RE: Operating systems - 3/5/2012 7:25:48 AM

Roger Neilson II

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From: Newcastle upon Tyne. England
Status: offline

I had to remind myself what the original question was......

In these debates I'm always reminded of the Voyage to Lilliput and the war between the Bigendians and the Littlenedians....... on so many levels.

Roger

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Post #: 13

RE: Operating systems - 3/5/2012 11:08:06 AM

temagic

Posts: 114
Joined: 7/26/2006
From: The land of trolls
Status: offline

Works great on Linux. But can't get the stand-alone programs Tracker and Staff to work. Someone with more knowledge about Java needs to have a look at it.

I posted a thread on the 'general' section of the forum a few weeks back with instructions on how to get the game up and running on Linux. A search would probably find you the thread.

Tracker and Staff works great on Windows 7 though... Also got widescreen to work (didn't know I had to put the zero before the 800 vertical line specified in -py as -py0800.)

(in reply to Roger Neilson II)

Post #: 14

RE: Operating systems - 3/5/2012 3:05:22 PM

Crackaces

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Joined: 7/9/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CV 2

Always fun watching a "my E-penis is longer than your E-penis" debate

Rage on!

(BTW Crackaces, I wrote telemetry code for JPL back in the late 70s that went into the shuttle program, but I wouldnt claim that my knowledge of 1980 systems is relevant to todays systems. What you did in 2002 was outdated in 2005 )

I re-read my posting and I could see how poorly it came off .. the purpose was not so much as "measuring E-penisis," but to establish a level that the discussion should take place. Bill stated emphatically that he feels intimately comfortable with OS archatecture.. and I simply tried to state that I have participated/made OS design decisions. Although as I read it it does come off very badly I see

But on to your comment .. I say the fundementals never change just how the deck chairs are arranged ...

If there is anything to learn from K&R/ Pike etc .. is that the more things change the more they remain the same ... So you have a point in that it would be a 6 month ramp up to say code in C# again learning the API (Applications Programmers Interface). If somebody here would to take the conversation to how many arguements a certain interface required and what type of arguements.. I would be lost ...

However .. the decisions made in DOS, CPM, Multics, UNIX, Plan 9, Windows etc Operating Systems are fundemental. I am speaking solely from an architectural level -- that has not changed very much .. oh cloud computing! The fudemeentals are in Distrubuted Transactions of the 80's ..Read Dr. Jim Gray's Transaction Processing ... it is all there .... the interfaces change... the medium change .. the fundementals do not ..

For example Key Questions: What consists of a process? What is a thread? Do we have a monolithic kernel or do we desgin microkernel of minimal code to get something from the hardware to the application? [Plan9] How does the operating system provide services? What runs in privileged mode and is there a non-privileged mode?[Not in DOS!] Ok now on to the relavant discussion .... big marketing feature ... How does the Application and OS keep in sync with updates? How about the Application and third party API's? Do you compile and link execs that contain whole units at compile/link time that are tested as a unit? That means duplication of common code but easier management of that code? Do you share some code that is linked at compile time but as a unit? [UNIX Shared Libs] Or is the solution multiple dynamic units that specifed at link time, but are actually linked at runtime? The latter has some great advantages in that manufactures can create mutiple versions of API's that allow old stuff to run while new stuff is created. A great roadmap for upgrading etc . one bad thing . now you have "applications" code running in kernel space because to share you have to enable the code to run in privileged space .. and a dynamic system of running that code that is inherently vulnerable ... now the complexites of vulnerablites are expanded many times.

Bill introduced the famious DirectX bug .. but as recently as 2009 an application QuickTime could exploit the operating system through an API/DKI DirectX ... Wow! That is a fundemenatal problem an application can compromise the integrety of the kernel .... To think I can jump to execute code in the kernel through an application

So we [I speak as an ex-architect] patch the hole up but because of fundemental archtecture decisions we have to find every little hole that exists in every nook and cranny ... ..So we got our monthly security update from Microsoft ..

In OSX shared code is linked at complile time. If something shared is subsituted/corrupted at runtime it is id'ed and the app will fail. In addition, the portals into the OS are thorugh a single route .. the ASM trap instruction. That instruction acually causes a context switch and seperates user and kernel code like a wall ... No applications code is running in kernel space that I can go roaming through because of a vulnerability .. Disadvantage .. much less dynamism on the software maintinace level ..That does not preclude the Trojan horse subsituting a whole exec as admin/or "root," or a "worm" a program that consumes all availible resources in replication ...

My orginal point is that there are desgin issues between the operating systems that make them more or less vulnerbale. In fact UNIX has been around a lot longer than Windows and believe me from the first sendmail exploit the system has undergone vulnerablites .. but none like the fundemental design of .DLL's ...

But if you drop a virtual windows operating system on your Apple you are exposed to the above ..and every vulnerability ...

(in reply to CV 2)

Post #: 15

RE: Operating systems - 3/7/2012 3:40:18 PM

Crackaces

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Apple Vulnerabilites:

"A new version of Mac malware exploits vulnerabilities in Java to steal usernames and passwords for online payment, banking and credit card websites. Flashback.G is the first variant of the Trojan horse to use an attack route that doesn't require any user interaction. Apple Mac users have been warned to be on the lookout for a new variant of the Flashback Java Trojan that has already hit an unknown number of victims running OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard. However, even if these have been patched or Java is not installed, the malware will throw up a dialog asking users to accept a bogus digital certificate claiming to be from Apple. Anyone who is fooled will be accepting the install procedure for a browser login stealer that puts password-protected websites such as banking sites, PayPal, and webmail at severe risk. For more information on this go to http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/250790/new_mac_malware_exploits_java_bugs_steals_passwords.html and http://www.pcworld.com/article/250693/flashbackg_trojan_targets_macs.html#tk.mod_stln"

I think this is what Bill was explaining. And if OSX were a more popular OS than more effort would be committed to writing this kind of malware .. this good news is just one method of attack needs to be stopped .. the Trojan horse replacing a executible with root permission ... being careful with root, and having applications run in thier own ACL space [and not root] .. prevents these kinds of attacks. At least the viral route is not possible .. But Bill might be right .. it is only a matter of time and effort to find more vulnerablites ...

And to think the powers to be thought the network should stay governed by ARPANET and DARPA and not be commercialized .. it is a conumdrum for sure ...

(in reply to Crackaces)

Post #: 16

RE: Operating systems - 3/8/2012 7:28:19 AM

PizzaMan

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Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

Please Help!

My old computer died and I am trying to install the game to a new computer. Specs:

AMD 6-core CPU
Win 7, 64b
10 Gig Ram
NVidia GT 520

According to the update routine I am running the most rescent version of the game.

When I double click the .exe file, I get "Error: Can't set screen mode"

Is this an issue of setting the correct performance switches? I'm thinking of adding:

-SingleCpuOrders �cpu2 �multiaudio -px1440 -py900 -w

Being completely computer illiterate, I need specific directions on how to do this. I've tried reviewing as mush as I can about the properties, but I have no clue how to amend them. Anyone care to walk me through it?

(in reply to Crackaces)

Post #: 17

RE: Operating systems - 3/8/2012 6:05:02 PM

Grizzly

Posts: 11
Joined: 10/3/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PizzaMan

Please Help!

My old computer died and I am trying to install the game to a new computer. Specs:

AMD 6-core CPU
Win 7, 64b
10 Gig Ram
NVidia GT 520

According to the update routine I am running the most rescent version of the game.

When I double click the .exe file, I get "Error: Can't set screen mode"

Is this an issue of setting the correct performance switches? I'm thinking of adding:

-SingleCpuOrders �cpu2 �multiaudio -px1440 -py900 -w

Being completely computer illiterate, I need specific directions on how to do this. I've tried reviewing as mush as I can about the properties, but I have no clue how to amend them. Anyone care to walk me through it?