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Anyone play this in preference to AE?

 
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Anyone play this in preference to AE? - 2/29/2012 10:21:19 AM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 599
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Sydney
Status: offline 		I ask because:

1. I got this back when it came out

2. As a longtime Pacwar player I was hoping, on reflection, for something at the scale of Pacwar with the engine of WitP. I do not want to deal with individual harbour defence launches. I would prefer transport convoys with the AKs as 4x12 ship multiples than dealing with 48 individual ships (as opposed to individual combatants down to DD/DE level).

3. I played it a bit back when and there were buggy things with ghost units and stuff (that might now have been patched) that were off-putting

4. I understand the immersion factor attraction (despite not having the time...)

5. I now have a you-beaut new laptop that cost 10% as much as the computer I had in 2004 and has about 1000 times the computing power (if not more)

6. I looked at AE... 1-3 day turns... 40nm hexes....what some might consider an overly immensely detailed need to manage things like ship repairs (yes I read the post over there with the detailed analysis)... I wish it had changed the scale the other way.

So my question is, now I have a bit more time again - do I get back into this and then look around for a pbem opponent to hand me my butt who'll agree to 7 day turns, or are you all playing AE now?

Supplementary question - did anyone ever mod a campaign where they consolidated things, eg, the various engineers into a one size fits all base force that comes equipped with airfield builders, port workers, aviation support guys, etc, to simplify things?

Edit - geography usually means at best exchanging one turn a day.


< Message edited by Ian R -- 2/29/2012 10:24:18 AM >

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Ian R
Post #: 1
RE: Anyone play this in preference to AE? - 2/29/2012 11:15:56 AM   
Wolfie1

 

Posts: 359
Joined: 12/22/2004
From: Blackpool, England
Status: offline 		AE slows my PC down too much, so I've stuck with WitP

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Teamwork is essential - it gives the enemy someone else to shoot at.....

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RE: Anyone play this in preference to AE? - 2/29/2012 2:20:22 PM   
jomni


Posts: 2518
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline 		I prefer this. AE is more realistic but they included some unnecessary micromanagement and rules that I find tedious.

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RE: Anyone play this in preference to AE? - 3/1/2012 1:14:40 AM   
tocaff


Posts: 4026
Joined: 10/12/2006
From: USA now in Brasil
Status: offline 		There are players that still prefer WITP for a variety of reasons.  It's kind of funny that when this came out it was a huge leap from UV and then the same from this to AE.  I have tried to get into AE and just can't.  For now WITP will be it for me.

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Todd

I never thought that doing an AAR would be so time consuming and difficult.
www.matrixgames.com/forum/tm.asp?m=2080768

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Post #: 4
RE: Anyone play this in preference to AE? - 3/3/2012 5:30:24 AM   
jwilkerson


Posts: 10228
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: San Jose, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

I ask because:

1. I got this back when it came out

2. As a longtime Pacwar player I was hoping, on reflection, for something at the scale of Pacwar with the engine of WitP. I do not want to deal with individual harbour defence launches. I would prefer transport convoys with the AKs as 4x12 ship multiples than dealing with 48 individual ships (as opposed to individual combatants down to DD/DE level).

3. I played it a bit back when and there were buggy things with ghost units and stuff (that might now have been patched) that were off-putting

4. I understand the immersion factor attraction (despite not having the time...)

5. I now have a you-beaut new laptop that cost 10% as much as the computer I had in 2004 and has about 1000 times the computing power (if not more)

6. I looked at AE... 1-3 day turns... 40nm hexes....what some might consider an overly immensely detailed need to manage things like ship repairs (yes I read the post over there with the detailed analysis)... I wish it had changed the scale the other way.

So my question is, now I have a bit more time again - do I get back into this and then look around for a pbem opponent to hand me my butt who'll agree to 7 day turns, or are you all playing AE now?

Supplementary question - did anyone ever mod a campaign where they consolidated things, eg, the various engineers into a one size fits all base force that comes equipped with airfield builders, port workers, aviation support guys, etc, to simplify things?

Edit - geography usually means at best exchanging one turn a day.



Neither AE nor WITP support 7 day turns ... they both only support 3 days turns.

For better or worse, the players of WITP asked for "more detail" in a poll we did long ago ... and we gave them AE .. and they seem to like it ... I was and am surprised... but the market wins ...

If WITP is too detailed still ... then UV may be a good compromise for you. At least it has LESS stuff.

No one did a consolidating MOD to my knowledge. But playing the Allies in WITP will get about a close as you can come in the full campaign game, to what you are asking for. Most Allied "base forces" are amalgamations of the real units - which are mostly separately represented in AE - which is an "Order of Battle" guy's wet dream. If you want larger abstracted units - that is what you get - especially on the Allied side in WITP.

You can run the ships around in large convoys to approximate your desire not to have to worry about individual merchant ships.

But bottom line. Both WITP and (even more so) AE were designed for the crazed mircomanager - who just can't get enough - and for better or worse - there are more of them than we suspected!!!

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RE: Anyone play this in preference to AE? - 3/4/2012 4:31:20 PM   
rominet


Posts: 515
Joined: 10/23/2007
From: Paris
Status: offline
quote:


ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

For better or worse, the players of WITP asked for "more detail" in a poll we did long ago ... and we gave them AE .. and they seem to like it ... I was and am surprised... but the market wins ...


Waoouhh, i couldn't imagine most WitP players wanted "more detail".
I was thinking to have only more realistic behavior.
Now i understand.



< Message edited by rominet -- 3/4/2012 4:33:26 PM >

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RE: Anyone play this in preference to AE? - 3/8/2012 9:31:16 AM   
jomni


Posts: 2518
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline 		Maybe the most vocal players wanted more detail.
The happy players of classic WITP are happy playing the game and didn't bother with the survey.
And also those unhappy players that stopped playing.


< Message edited by jomni -- 3/8/2012 9:37:53 AM >

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RE: Anyone play this in preference to AE? - 3/8/2012 10:21:41 AM   
tocaff


Posts: 4026
Joined: 10/12/2006
From: USA now in Brasil
Status: offline 		AE does have some things fixed that linger in WITP.  

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Todd

I never thought that doing an AAR would be so time consuming and difficult.
www.matrixgames.com/forum/tm.asp?m=2080768

(in reply to jomni)
Post #: 8
RE: Anyone play this in preference to AE? - 3/8/2012 1:57:22 PM   
rominet


Posts: 515
Joined: 10/23/2007
From: Paris
Status: offline 		The most important thing for me remains that there are still players to play WitP with.
1 or 2 is enough for me.

(in reply to tocaff)
Post #: 9
RE: Anyone play this in preference to AE? - 3/9/2012 2:31:57 AM   
jomni


Posts: 2518
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tocaff

AE does have some things fixed that linger in WITP.  



Yeah and keep WITP broken to force them to upgrade?

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RE: Anyone play this in preference to AE? - 3/9/2012 8:28:15 AM   
rominet


Posts: 515
Joined: 10/23/2007
From: Paris
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tocaff

AE does have some things fixed that linger in WITP.  


Can you be more precise?

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Post #: 11
RE: Anyone play this in preference to AE? - 3/9/2012 3:37:18 PM   
tocaff


Posts: 4026
Joined: 10/12/2006
From: USA now in Brasil
Status: offline 		The pilot bug that will hit in 1944 if you exceed the # of slots allotted for pilots.  It's akin to the Black Death.

Having static units move due to using the accept replacements for all units button in that base. 

Just to name the 2 that immediately come to mind.


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Todd

I never thought that doing an AAR would be so time consuming and difficult.
www.matrixgames.com/forum/tm.asp?m=2080768

(in reply to rominet)
Post #: 12
RE: Anyone play this in preference to AE? - 3/9/2012 6:49:22 PM   
jallison86

 

Posts: 15
Joined: 7/28/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tocaff

The pilot bug that will hit in 1944 if you exceed the # of slots allotted for pilots.  It's akin to the Black Death.


Can you expand on that? I'm new to the game and am in August, 1943, of a campaign against the AI. I'd hate to encounter the Black Death in 5 months! Thanks.

- Jeff

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Post #: 13
RE: Anyone play this in preference to AE? - 3/9/2012 7:23:08 PM   
tocaff


Posts: 4026
Joined: 10/12/2006
From: USA now in Brasil
Status: offline 		There are memory slots for pilots and if you exceed that number of slots the program will delete active pilots from your forces.  Thus the name the Black Death.  This will hurt the Japanese player more than the Allied because of the quality of the new pilots that come on line. 

My AAR game is in May 1944 and we have managed to avoid the problem so far because we have tried not to have to many pilots in our air units.  I believe that KIA, WIA, etc are tracked as well as active so there is the problem.  In AE the memory slots got a very large increase, but there have been reports that it wasn't enough.


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Todd

I never thought that doing an AAR would be so time consuming and difficult.
www.matrixgames.com/forum/tm.asp?m=2080768

(in reply to jallison86)
Post #: 14
RE: Anyone play this in preference to AE? - 3/11/2012 3:12:26 AM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 599
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Sydney
Status: offline
Wanted to play this a bit again before responding to your points, so after playing the first 8 months of the war against the IJN AI...

quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R
Snip


Neither AE nor WITP support 7 day turns ... they both only support 3 days turns.


Solo I usually run the turn on continuous and hit F9 on day 7, unless something important is happening. Haven't explored if this can be done in 'hotseat' mode,and infer its not possible in PBEM mode.

quote:

For better or worse, the players of WITP asked for "more detail" in a poll we did long ago ... and we gave them AE .. and they seem to like it ... I was and am surprised... but the market wins ...


They probably have unpunched (but well thumbed) copies of CNA in the cupboard.

quote:

If WITP is too detailed still ... then UV may be a good compromise for you. At least it has LESS stuff.


The only naval stuff I want really want less of is things like SCs & LCIs where instead of a 150 boat TF it would be easier and quicker to handle 15 x 10 boat 'widgets'. I might have to play around with the editor and see if you can make an "= 10 boats" LCI with 10 times the capacity and with the other values like endurance rigged so that the exe only lets you have 1/10 as many, don't know if it will work.


quote:

No one did a consolidating MOD to my knowledge. But playing the Allies in WITP will get about a close as you can come in the full campaign game, to what you are asking for. Most Allied "base forces" are amalgamations of the real units - which are mostly separately represented in AE - which is an "Order of Battle" guy's wet dream. If you want larger abstracted units - that is what you get - especially on the Allied side in WITP.


There is room for some additional amalgamation - eg the air HQ (support squads), some multiple of subordinate aviation regiments (more support squads, and aviation support squads) and the corre4sponding base elements(more support squads, and more aviation support squads, and the usual base stuff in larger numbers) could turn into 1/3 of that number of units with all the stuff evenely divided up. Maybe the HQ has to be separate to function as designed. Amalgamatiing the various construction engineers into regiments as well (some seem to be already).

quote:

You can run the ships around in large convoys to approximate your desire not to have to worry about individual merchant ships.


One of the best things about the game is that with judicious use of the auto convoy system and the CS option you can set up Pago Pago as a warehouse and fuel depot and pretty much automate it from there. Although Karachi still wants to send things to Broome via Singapore. But generally no complaints.

quote:

But bottom line. Both WITP and (even more so) AE were designed for the crazed mircomanager - who just can't get enough - and for better or worse - there are more of them than we suspected!!!


See CNA comment.

_____________________________

"You may find that having is not so nearly pleasing a thing as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true."
- Cdr Spock


Ian R

(in reply to jwilkerson)
Post #: 15
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