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new movie of Yamamoto - 2/28/2012 7:09:22 PM   
RisingSun


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Just found a trailer of new movie of Yamamoto during WWII in the Pacific, while eating nacho and hot cheese/sauce and found this. Wouldnt mind watching it, unfort cannot find the movie on amazon or ebay yet. The movie stated have been release in 2011. As long i can read the subtile in english i would like to get this as collection.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jefoskxAt9A

< Message edited by RisingSun -- 2/28/2012 7:10:19 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: new movie of Yamamoto - 2/28/2012 7:28:34 PM   
nashvillen


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Nice, shame I can't read Japanese.

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RE: new movie of Yamamoto - 2/28/2012 7:29:26 PM   
BigDuke66


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In had its premier in December so I guess it will take a while before we can get our hands on this.

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RE: new movie of Yamamoto - 2/28/2012 7:30:57 PM   
geofflambert


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No english subtitles?  I don't care, I have got to see that.  Thanks RisingSun.

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RE: new movie of Yamamoto - 2/28/2012 7:40:12 PM   
RisingSun


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Sorry guys, i didnt realise that it was release that soon and yes it was publish last December. Im sure they will add english subtitle for it, prob take two to five more months before we (USA) get a peek at it. Look interesting movie though.

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RE: new movie of Yamamoto - 2/28/2012 8:46:28 PM   
JocMeister

 

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That one I want to see!

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RE: new movie of Yamamoto - 2/28/2012 9:15:20 PM   
FDRLincoln


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OK...wow...too bad I don't speak Japanese.

This looks awesome visually...those ships are beautiful.

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RE: new movie of Yamamoto - 2/28/2012 10:37:32 PM   
Knavey

 

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Ok...just about every second of that movie looked better than the MOVIE THAT SHALL NOT BE NAMED.

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RE: new movie of Yamamoto - 2/28/2012 10:43:18 PM   
FDRLincoln


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Even if this movie has a love story (and it looks like it does), Yamamoto Isoroku had a very, um, interesting personal life and it will be intriguing to see how they handle this. I don't know enough (anything) about Japanese cinema to know what to expect.

But visually this looks stunning and that will be enough to get me to see it.

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RE: new movie of Yamamoto - 2/28/2012 10:47:33 PM   
BigDuke66


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I guess I'm not the only one that finds this sentimental singing music totally unappropriated?
This epic war score at the beginning seems to be the total opposite of this romantic music and the score fits much better.

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RE: new movie of Yamamoto - 2/28/2012 11:42:57 PM   
Ranger5355

 

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Looks fantastic! I can't wait!

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RE: new movie of Yamamoto - 2/29/2012 3:16:03 AM   
oldman45


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We know how it's going to end

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RE: new movie of Yamamoto - 2/29/2012 3:37:09 AM   
geofflambert


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C'mon oldman45, this could be revisionist history, in which case Tojo might survive somehow (like Hitler's brain) to inflict himself on us yet again.  Or it could be some denial stuff, like the Nanking Massacre etc. etc. etc. didn't actually happen.  But I can't resist seeing ships blow up and stuff like that.  I must see this.  Take me to my leader!

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RE: new movie of Yamamoto - 2/29/2012 10:30:05 AM   
RisingSun


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quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

C'mon oldman45, this could be revisionist history, in which case Tojo might survive somehow (like Hitler's brain) to inflict himself on us yet again.  Or it could be some denial stuff, like the Nanking Massacre etc. etc. etc. didn't actually happen.  But I can't resist seeing ships blow up and stuff like that.  I must see this.  Take me to my leader!


Seen few movies of Nanking and wasnt pretty, whoever allowed this should be excuted or let the Chineses handle that situations. Sadly to see all those women and children get butchered as well men too.

On the other hand, Yamamoto is not like that at all. Pretty much it was the IJA was responible for what happen and what started the war in the first place, esp Tojo. Yamamoto knew he couldnt pull this off in War in the Pacific, may run wild for months then it will slow down after the Americans start replacing and building alot more ships and planes.

It was a brillant strategy for attacking Pearl Harbor, that what i would do too and yes it was risky. Least it would knock most of those capitol ships out of the war or make war. If they didnt attack Pearl Harbor, our Military R&D and other fields may not gotten this far and who know what would happen if Cold War took place in Cuba then. Yes the American Military Techs is strong.

Now some of you will disagreed or may accept my opinions about what started the war in China, first of all the Chineses have been in civil wars for who know how long. They been fighting in seven or more different factions and included Communist China. They have been kidnapping and killing their own peoples. It took me years to collect most informations on what really happen over there, most peoples didnt know that. IMO that what started the conflict at Marco Polo Bridge on the July 7th, 1937, few shots were fired at Japanese Troops on the other side. After they settled this, the Chineses refuse to look or hand over the snipers who been shooting at them. So after three rounds of attack then they rushed in. Well i would done the samn thing too. Too bad they didnt settle this in the logic ways without bloodshed and alot of peoples have died because of it.

IMO that the Chineses have been playing dirty in some points, esp the Communist China that have spies everywhere. After kidnapped their General and other officers as well loved ones, they wanted to cause some serious damage through cloak and dagger styles, by attacking the Japanese Troops and bringing them into conflict and that would really bad. Even the Germans helped the Chineses to fight off the attackers, then later they pulled out, funny how Germany invite Japan into the Axis side, infact Japan was pretty brutal and aggressive. Like disturbing the hornet nest!

Stretching out too far was the problems for supplies and chain of commands. Not protecting her convoy for raw materials to Japan and their pilots refuse to use parachutes when they are shot down. Losing four carriers at Midway was terrible, but they still can fight if they have training their pilots and keep the war going as long it take. The Americans couldnt keep going due too much warships, planes and men fighting for their country, most of them willing to fight even they dont get paid for doing it. They were going bankrupt quickly by 1945-46.

One major flaw was the Japanese R&D, lacking of radars til it was too late. Anyway there no way the Japaneses would have taken Austraila or West coast of USA. Japaneses was hoping to hold out as long they can til the Americans or Allies given up.

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RE: new movie of Yamamoto - 2/29/2012 2:00:38 PM   
bjmorgan


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Yeah, attacking the US was brilliant strategy. Even Yamamoto had misgivings about it at the time. The operational plan used on December 7th may have been exceptional, but to judge the strategy, you should look at the first two weeks of August, 1945. Worked out well for the Japanese, didn't it?

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RE: new movie of Yamamoto - 2/29/2012 2:04:51 PM   
RisingSun


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bjmorgan

Yeah, attacking the US was brilliant strategy. Even Yamamoto had misgivings about it at the time. The operational plan used on December 7th may have been exceptional, but to judge the strategy, you should look at the first two weeks of August, 1945. Worked out well for the Japanese, didn't it?


They couldnt imagine something that powerful in nuclear fissions, but its possible and very expensive as well very dangerous project. Japan didnt want to lose those islands down south, if they did, they knew it would be in range of heavy bombers. Only matter of time before checkmate. Even if USA didnt use Atomic Bombs, USA would still wins by bombing them to oblivion. Japan just wont surrender in most situations.

When war broke out in China, the allies esp the Americans was cutting off resources they needed as import from USA. So Japan knew they will have to do something else if this continue. So that why Japan asked most brilliant commanders to see what are the probabilities. Either stop the fighting in China or go full out war with anyone nearby. They would have done a good job if they pay more attention what would happen if you do this or that, guess they didnt excepted it til it was too late. The kamikazes was crazy and horrible ordeal and again that failed as well.

< Message edited by RisingSun -- 2/29/2012 2:09:40 PM >

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RE: new movie of Yamamoto - 2/29/2012 2:10:53 PM   
bjmorgan


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That, sir, is precisely my point. By attacking, they doomed themseves, so the strategy was not very good.

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RE: new movie of Yamamoto - 2/29/2012 3:17:07 PM   
RisingSun


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bjmorgan

That, sir, is precisely my point. By attacking, they doomed themseves, so the strategy was not very good.


Wasnt saying that the Japanese or the American can win the war, was the probabilities of possibilities. Just like Horace Lawson Hunley with very first submarine that sank the british warships during the revolution. Or the fear Ohka missile that could wreck USN feets, so on. So many unusually events took place.

Infact Japan could attack any nation, even the russians like they did during the Russo-Japanese War in Feb 1904-Sept 1905, after the russian lost the battle/fleet, they ended up losing Korea. Japan was expanding slowly. During the conflict with the Chineses, if the Americans didnt have any gunboats or dilpomats over there, there good chance the Americans wouldnt gotten involved the war in the Pacific. But they are aware that they had bases in the Philippines and would cause problems.

During that time, Hitler was gathering forces and building up his dream armies to expand and he want to remove those jews. Even Japan kept it minimum, sooner or later it would be WWII all over the globe. So someone have to pick a side and fight it out, doesnt matter if it Allies or Axis.

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RE: new movie of Yamamoto - 3/1/2012 2:40:34 AM   
Xxzard

 

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To be fair RisingSun, it would matter which side they picked. Japan knew the Allies stood for the status quo, not territorial expansion. Russia got away with grabbing territory because they were large and powerful. No one else could get away with it and still be on the "Allied" side. Germany didn't care if Japan weakened the old empires. In fact it served them rather well.

On the topic of the movie, I hope it is a legitimate picture and not just exploitation of an historic figure. Yamamoto was an intelligent man who did what he thought best for his country, even though he predicted defeat in the long run.

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RE: new movie of Yamamoto - 3/1/2012 3:55:36 AM   
FDRLincoln


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I would point out that Yamamoto was an advocate for of the naval treaties in the 20s and early 30s, opposed the alliance with Germany, supported peace with the Western powers, and felt that the Army was run by a bunch of insane hotheads. In fact, rightwingers threatened him with assassination and his life was in jeopardy in the late 30s.

I actually think that as an operational planner he was somewhat overrated. But he had a broad and accurate view of what was really in Japan's best strategic interests, and he knew that going to war with the United States was not in that interest. He was quite wise in that regard.

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RE: new movie of Yamamoto - 3/1/2012 3:56:20 AM   
ilovestrategy


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I agree that attacking the US was a bad move but the attack on PH was a good way to make the best out of a no win situation.

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RE: new movie of Yamamoto - 3/1/2012 3:57:42 AM   
FDRLincoln


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Looked at solely as a military exercise, the PH attack was brilliant.

Midway...not so much...too complicated and sloppily planned.

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RE: new movie of Yamamoto - 3/1/2012 10:15:39 AM   
RisingSun


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Well Japan had some weak communication codes to start out with and didnt change it to more complex code like the Germans did. Once the American crack the codes, little by little then get the ideas what the commanders or bases are up to, that was fatal mistake for the Japanese and wouldnt have lost Yamamoto back in April 1943. The Allies or Americans wanted him taken out and they knew how valuable he is.

On the Russia point of view during the Russo-War, their empire was very stretchy from the Capitol was a long haul. Beside bring in troops or reinforcements, wouldnt do much good unless weaken the german front later on during WWII. Their roads and Rails arent that good either, later on after the Germans have collapsed then they focus on Japan borders and retake Korea.

Im not trying to say that the Japaneses are better or will be, just matter of leadership, intel reports and keeping track of informations. It like playing chess with someone and see the moves within three or four ahead of time. Like setting up a trap or ambush, if they didnt see that coming then it would be a nightmare for them.

Funny thing is if WWII never took place, wondering how the world tech R&D on military would be like today.

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RE: new movie of Yamamoto - 3/1/2012 10:48:08 PM   
Ranger5355

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: oldman45

We know how it's going to end

Aw... don't spoil it for me

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RE: new movie of Yamamoto - 3/2/2012 9:50:42 AM   
RisingSun


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Hmm would anyone in here would be interesting in a long grand campaign playing PBEM? While i play the Japaneses and he/she can play the Allies. If you are interesting let me know or pm. Would like to see if this Allies player can pull that off on me, like it happen in WWII in the Pacific.

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RE: new movie of Yamamoto - 3/2/2012 1:13:04 PM   
Empire101


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RisingSun

Seen few movies of Nanking and wasnt pretty, whoever allowed this should be excuted or let the Chineses handle that situations. Sadly to see all those women and children get butchered as well men too.


This episode has forever blighted any discussion about the conduct of the Imperial Japanese Army.
I can only say that if anyone is interested in this terrible episode then Iris Changs book 'The Rape of Nanking' is required reading on this horrible subject.

quote:

ORIGINAL: RisingSun

On the other hand, Yamamoto is not like that at all. Pretty much it was the IJA was responible for what happen and what started the war in the first place, esp Tojo. Yamamoto knew he couldnt pull this off in War in the Pacific, may run wild for months then it will slow down after the Americans start replacing and building alot more ships and planes.


Tojo was one amongst many who who bear the responsibility for Japans path to war. In the late 30's Foreign Minister Matsouka ( he who famously walked out of the League of Nations ), is also one who steered Japans destiny ever closer to confronting the Western Powers.
Navy Chief of Staff Nagano and the Army Chief of Staff Sugiyama attitudes also carried alot of weight in this matter.

quote:

ORIGINAL: RisingSun

It was a brillant strategy for attacking Pearl Harbor, that what i would do too and yes it was risky. Least it would knock most of those capitol ships out of the war or make war. If they didnt attack Pearl Harbor, our Military R&D and other fields may not gotten this far and who know what would happen if Cold War took place in Cuba then. Yes the American Military Techs is strong.


Whether Operation Z was brilliant is open to debate. It was a plan to simultaneously knock out the the American Pacific Fleet to allow an unimpeded Japanese assault on Malaya, the Phillipines, Borneo and the Dutch East Indies.
In that respect the plan worked perfectly. What went wrong was Japans assumption that the Allies would soon lose interest in regaining their possessions after inflicting massive casualties on them in one or two 'Decisive Battles'. The Western Powers were considered decadent and immoral by the Japanese, and so their 'weakness' would lead to their downfall and Japan's triumph. A sort of super Tsushima 'idea' pervaded the Japanese military mindset, in that all they had to do was bring America and her Allies to their collective knees in a catastrophic ( for the Allies ) confrontation. In fact the reverse happened.


quote:

ORIGINAL: RisingSun

Now some of you will disagreed or may accept my opinions about what started the war in China, first of all the Chineses have been in civil wars for who know how long. They been fighting in seven or more different factions and included Communist China. They have been kidnapping and killing their own peoples. It took me years to collect most informations on what really happen over there, most peoples didnt know that. IMO that what started the conflict at Marco Polo Bridge on the July 7th, 1937, few shots were fired at Japanese Troops on the other side. After they settled this, the Chineses refuse to look or hand over the snipers who been shooting at them. So after three rounds of attack then they rushed in. Well i would done the samn thing too. Too bad they didnt settle this in the logic ways without bloodshed and alot of peoples have died because of it.

IMO that the Chineses have been playing dirty in some points, esp the Communist China that have spies everywhere. After kidnapped their General and other officers as well loved ones, they wanted to cause some serious damage through cloak and dagger styles, by attacking the Japanese Troops and bringing them into conflict and that would really bad. Even the Germans helped the Chineses to fight off the attackers, then later they pulled out, funny how Germany invite Japan into the Axis side, infact Japan was pretty brutal and aggressive. Like disturbing the hornet nest!


Hmmmm......... I think that is being a little economical with the truth, in my opinion.
Japans Imperial ambition in China was as naked and as ruthless as the British, French, Dutch and Germans had been all through the 19th and early 20th Century, but even the Western Powers had done nothing like what happened at Nanking. The simple fact of the matter was that the Kwantung Armys High Command was over run with ultra nationalists prepared to commit gekokujo ( insubordination) in the name of protecting The Emperor and Japan herself from her own politicians wishes. The Marco Bridge Incident gave the Japanese Army a reason ( however flimsy) for invading China. I did not think there was any doubt about who really engineered the Incident. Major General Doihara is strongly suspected of being the 'third party' involved at the bridge. The Kwantung Army's fingerprints are all over it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: RisingSun

Stretching out too far was the problems for supplies and chain of commands. Not protecting her convoy for raw materials to Japan and their pilots refuse to use parachutes when they are shot down. Losing four carriers at Midway was terrible, but they still can fight if they have training their pilots and keep the war going as long it take. The Americans couldnt keep going due too much warships, planes and men fighting for their country, most of them willing to fight even they dont get paid for doing it. They were going bankrupt quickly by 1945-46.

One major flaw was the Japanese R&D, lacking of radars til it was too late. Anyway there no way the Japaneses would have taken Austraila or West coast of USA. Japaneses was hoping to hold out as long they can til the Americans or Allies given up.


In my opinion Japans greatest mistake was completely underestimating the resolve of the Allies to fight back after a series of terrible setbacks. Yamamoto saw the disparity between America and Japan and knew he could not hold them off forever. Grab as much as you can and then bleed the enemy white in their attempts to retake their possessions until they come to the diplomatic table, is the esscence of Yamamotos strategy. Remember that Japan is only really the size of California in square miles

Oh, and the film looks fantastic!!

< Message edited by Empire101 -- 3/2/2012 1:35:54 PM >


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Post #: 26
RE: new movie of Yamamoto - 3/2/2012 3:30:07 PM   
RisingSun


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There a movie on netflix or if you can find it about Nanking and it called "City of Life and Death" its pretty good and beware about those women getting raped in this one. Sadly the women didnt have any where to turn and hard to believe those jap soliders messing around and not paying any respect for them.

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Post #: 27
RE: new movie of Yamamoto - 3/3/2012 4:12:12 PM   
Empire101


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RisingSun

There a movie on netflix or if you can find it about Nanking and it called "City of Life and Death" its pretty good and beware about those women getting raped in this one. Sadly the women didnt have any where to turn and hard to believe those jap soliders messing around and not paying any respect for them.


Here is a transcript of the orders received by 66th Battalion 13th December 1937:-

BATTALION BATTLE REPORTER, AT 2:00AM RECEIVED ORDERS FROM THE REGIMENTAL COMMANDER:

TO COMPLY WITH BRIGADE ORDERS, ALL PRISIONERS OF WAR ARE TO BE EXECUTED.
METHOD OF EXECUTION:
DIVIDE THE PRISIONERS INTO GROUPS OF A DOZEN. SHOOT TO KILL SEPERATELY.

This was following the orders issued by Prince Asaka ( Lieutenant General ), who had replaced General Matsui ( a decent man ), on the orders of the Emperor.

Asaka had issued a set of orders marked SECRET: TO BE DESTROYED.
Within those orders was the order KILL ALL CAPTIVES.

This was the spark that led to the conflagration in Nanking, as Japanese troops went onto an orgy of murder, rape and destruction.
To my knowledge Asaka, ( a member of the Imperial family, and the uncle of Hirohito ), was never brought to account for his crimes..... in my opinion, a thoroughly 'bad egg'.
( although I would use a far stronger Anglo-Saxon word if I was at my annual Regimental Reunion to descibe him.


< Message edited by Empire101 -- 3/3/2012 4:33:54 PM >


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Post #: 28
RE: new movie of Yamamoto - 3/3/2012 5:28:23 PM   
RisingSun


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Even all the little things i done in the past, they prob could put me away for it for doing small times. But in this situations, dont think i could live out my life if i done something like that as a solider or general.

During in combat situations is different but killing, raping, etcs to civilians or helpless peoples is terrible and you will carry that with you for the rest of your life. Probably like nightmares time to time, thinking they will haunt you.

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Post #: 29
RE: new movie of Yamamoto - 3/3/2012 8:38:03 PM   
Empire101


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I'm sure most of us ( and by that I mean the human race ), are certainly not saints. Minor trangressions are one thing.... pouring petrol over people, turning them into flaming torches and betting which one will run the furthest is thankfully beyond the comprehension of 99% of us.

Things like this ( and much worse ) frequently happened after the fall of Nanking. The world must not forget those poor victims.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway, on a lighter note, I am certainly looking forward to this film when it is distributed in the West.

It will be interesting to see what the Japanese film industry make of those earth shattering events nearly 71 years ago.

_____________________________

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but being bored is greatly preferable to being prematurely dead because of some ideological fantasy.
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