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RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J)

 
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RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J) - 5/18/2013 12:12:20 AM   
PaxMondo


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Francois,

Can you post a couple complete day encounters with the 4E's. When you chop off the reactions, can't tell what is happening so have no advice for you.

As for NF (night fighters), the only thing that matters is DUR. So Zero's are a bad choice. NF's only disrupt the 4E's. You need high DUR so they can survive the encounters. Zero's come in contact and just get shot down before they can force the bombers off. I have so rarely seen them shoot one down, that you might as well forget that as a goal. BUT, if you don't have them up the accuracy of hte 4E's at night is incredible.

I would also encourage you to talk to your opponent on an HR. No night bombing below 10K ... you might even want higher. The problem with night bombing and the 4E's is exactly as you have seen. They are unstoppable, they suffer few losses, and the accuracy is incredible. I won't comment on how historically accurate this is because that is really moot. The problem is that it is a game breaker tactic. There is no counter to it that I have found other than being able to NavBombard the base they are coming in from. It just puts the game into a very boring spiral for the IJ player.

< Message edited by PaxMondo -- 5/18/2013 12:14:41 AM >


_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 481
RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J) - 5/18/2013 8:52:03 AM   
fcharton

 

Posts: 951
Joined: 10/4/2010
From: Nemours, France
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
Can you post a couple complete day encounters with the 4E's. When you chop off the reactions, can't tell what is happening so have no advice for you.


Hi Pax,
Here is the encounter for the 15th of October, during the day. There were some fighter sweep in the afternoon as well.

Morning Air attack on Rabaul , at 106,125
Weather in hex: Clear sky
Raid detected at 38 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 49
A6M3a Zero x 3

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 14
B-24D Liberator x 15
B-25C Mitchell x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 20 damaged
A6M2 Zero: 6 destroyed on ground
A6M3a Zero: 3 damaged
A6M3a Zero: 6 destroyed on ground

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 5 damaged
B-24D Liberator: 3 damaged
B-25C Mitchell: 1 damaged

Airbase hits 5
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 22

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x B-25C Mitchell bombing from 11000 feet
Airfield Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb
8 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 11000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
7 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 11000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
7 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 11000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb
7 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 11000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
Chitose Ku S-1 with A6M2 Zero (1 airborne, 4 on standby, 18 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 6000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 35 minutes
Kanoya Ku S-1 with A6M2 Zero (1 airborne, 3 on standby, 16 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 11000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 14000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 33 minutes
Ryujo-1 with A6M2 Zero (2 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters to 5000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 4 minutes
Shoho-1 with A6M3a Zero (1 airborne, 2 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 14000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 8 minutes


For the record, I have 12 flak points in Rabaul, with radar, and some cannons that have ceilings over 11000 feet, and the airport is level seven. And as usual, the losses are quite underestimated : 20 zeroes were destroyed on the ground, runway damage was over 30, service over 20, and A2A claimed 35 zeroes, although some probably went down during the afternoon sweeps (stratospheric P38, which seem to have no problem at such long ranges against three time their numbers, of course)

Francois

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 482
RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J) - 5/18/2013 2:44:03 PM   
PaxMondo


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OK, so here is my take. LoBaron is much better than I am, so I iwll defer to him if he stops by.

First, you start with only 5 Zero's in the air when the 4E's are sighted 11 mins out. only 6 more can get airborne and to altitude before the 4E's arrive. So, you have 11 Zero's against 29 4E's + 9 2E's.

Given the odds, and the fact that the Zero has low DUR, you didn't lose any fighters in A2A speaks to high pilot EXP/Skill. The low numbers also means that your fighters had little chance to interfere with the bombers during their bomb run. Hence the AF damage you see.

The rest of your fighters engaged the bombers on their exit, and most of them might have gotten one pass. Hence, almost no losses on the allied side.

So, suggestions:
1. you need to have at least 1:1 Zero/4E ratio in daylight to have reasonable odds. Using your current CAP settings, it means you need 3x the number of Zero's at Rabaul.
2. If you can get to 1.5:1 ratio, you will really make an impact. I generally see 25%-50% 4E losses per raid when I can achieve those ratios. Your opponent can only sustain a couple of days of those and then he is done.
3. This only works for daylight CAP.

Just my thoughts.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to fcharton)
Post #: 483
RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J) - 5/18/2013 2:50:21 PM   
PaxMondo


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PS: As the 4E's were sighted only 11 mins out, it means that your radar probably failed it's check. IJ radar isn't that good, most of them have only a 30-40% chance to pass their check. So, when I commit radar to a site I have to get at least 2, and better 3, radar devices there to ensure a high probability that the radar will detect a raid.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 484
RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J) - 5/18/2013 7:14:43 PM   
fcharton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
First, you start with only 5 Zero's in the air when the 4E's are sighted 11 mins out. only 6 more can get airborne and to altitude before the 4E's arrive. So, you have 11 Zero's against 29 4E's + 9 2E's.

Given the odds, and the fact that the Zero has low DUR, you didn't lose any fighters in A2A speaks to high pilot EXP/Skill. The low numbers also means that your fighters had little chance to interfere with the bombers during their bomb run. Hence the AF damage you see.

The rest of your fighters engaged the bombers on their exit, and most of them might have gotten one pass. Hence, almost no losses on the allied side.


If this is the case, how do I get?

A6M2 Zero: 20 damaged
A6M3a Zero: 3 damaged

Which turns into a dozen zeroes shot down (more than were on air during the main attack?)

I can understand that my fighters didn't scramble, and the bombers can complete their run, but then, I shouldn't lose much to A2A, because my fighters didn't scramble (and 11 fighters and flak should make a difference, imho)

I can understand that I lose a lot in A2A, because DUR is so low, but then, with B17 with very low maneuver rating, and against flak, I very much doubt the bombing run would happen.

But the coincidence of both seems strange to me. It looks as if my fighters didn't scramble, letting the bombers attack, and then there was an air battle on their trip back, which the bombers won because of their numbers (they didn't scatter, or flee, or run for cover, they just turns, maintained formation, and fought back)

And the problem is that the report is so cryptic that you could probably use it to explain ANY result...

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
1. you need to have at least 1:1 Zero/4E ratio in daylight to have reasonable odds. Using your current CAP settings, it means you need 3x the number of Zero's at Rabaul.
2. If you can get to 1.5:1 ratio, you will really make an impact. I generally see 25%-50% 4E losses per raid when I can achieve those ratios. Your opponent can only sustain a couple of days of those and then he is done.
3. This only works for daylight CAP.


If I read you correctly, to be able to fight 40 4E, in late 1942, with flak, radar (2 radar devices, in fact) and all that, over a large airbase, I need 3*50*1.5=225 fighters, plus some during the night (not that it makes much difference). Say, around 300... That's just one base, and my opponent has much more than 40 4E (even though he has to rotate them)

Right now, I have about 1000 fighters (discounting the nates, but including KB squadrons), some are restricted, some are at sea, I probably can't muster much more than 600 on front line duty. So, basically, I can defend two bases at a time, against 40 4E each...

This doesn't seem right and I believe it proves that something is wrong with the air model itself. Such results are just too extreme and one sided.

And in any case, it makes it very difficult for me to take the game seriously. I have spent a while learning the system, I don't think I'm brighter than others, but I don't think I'm dumber either, and not being able to prevent 40 4E to interdict Rabaul in late 42 unless I commit about half the japanese airforce to it, doesn't fit my definition of an interesting gaming experience, or even a steep learning curve. The word "futile" is the one that springs to mind, actually.

And I am beginning to fear that embarking on such a long PBEM campaign was a very wrong move...

Francois

< Message edited by fcharton -- 5/18/2013 7:55:00 PM >

(in reply to PaxMondo)
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RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J) - 5/18/2013 9:15:24 PM   
PaxMondo


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Joined: 6/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: fcharton

If this is the case, how do I get?

A6M2 Zero: 20 damaged
A6M3a Zero: 3 damaged

Which turns into a dozen zeroes shot down (more than were on air during the main attack?)

I can understand that my fighters didn't scramble, and the bombers can complete their run, but then, I shouldn't lose much to A2A, because my fighters didn't scramble (and 11 fighters and flak should make a difference, imho)

I can understand that I lose a lot in A2A, because DUR is so low, but then, with B17 with very low maneuver rating, and against flak, I very much doubt the bombing run would happen.

But the coincidence of both seems strange to me. It looks as if my fighters didn't scramble, letting the bombers attack, and then there was an air battle on their trip back, which the bombers won because of their numbers (they didn't scatter, or flee, or run for cover, they just turns, maintained formation, and fought back)

And the problem is that the report is so cryptic that you could probably use it to explain ANY result...


Damaged only means that an aircraft was damaged, not 20 AC damaged, but that damage was done to an AC 20 times. could have been the same AC 20 times, you don't know.

The report doesn't show any shot down in this encounter, although some of them could have been. You lose them because the rest of your fighter did attack AFTER the bomb run in a chase position. Meaning, their attacks are slow and frankly the Zero has about the same firepower as the B17 does from a rear attack, but the B17 is a lot more rugged. Anyway, point is that your fighters are not showing up as 52 together, more likely there are never more than about 15 at any one time. The 4E's can handle this. You are playing to the 4E's stength, not the Zero's.

Flak. IJ flak is lousy is all there is to say and you don't have very much. Look at your flak unit. Most of them have 24 - 36 guns total, 50% are 25mm or smaller. Look at an allied flak unit. They can have +200 guns. One regiment. Point is, unless you have a +200 guns you really don't have much flak. So don't count on your flak doing a lot except to keep them above 5000 ft. The 25mm is pretty good at 5000ft and lower.

quote:

ORIGINAL: fcharton

If I read you correctly, to be able to fight 40 4E, in late 1942, with flak, radar (2 radar devices, in fact) and all that, over a large airbase, I need 3*50*1.5=225 fighters, plus some during the night (not that it makes much difference). Say, around 300... That's just one base, and my opponent has much more than 40 4E (even though he has to rotate them)

Right now, I have about 1000 fighters (discounting the nates, but including KB squadrons), some are restricted, some are at sea, I probably can't muster much more than 600 on front line duty. So, basically, I can defend two bases at a time, against 40 4E each...

This doesn't seem right and I believe it proves that something is wrong with the air model itself. Such results are just too extreme and one sided.

And in any case, it makes it very difficult for me to take the game seriously. I have spent a while learning the system, I don't think I'm brighter than others, but I don't think I'm dumber either, and not being able to prevent 40 4E to interdict Rabaul in late 42 unless I commit about half the japanese airforce to it, doesn't fit my definition of an interesting gaming experience, or even a steep learning curve. The word "futile" is the one that springs to mind, actually.

And I am beginning to fear that embarking on such a long PBEM campaign was a very wrong move...

Francois

Correct and this is exactly the dilema that the IJ faced. The IJ did not have fighters in '42 designed to go after the B17. Germany didn't either initially and the FW109 was born for that role.

So the IJ kept going piecemeal against the 4E's losing whenever they did. Their saving grace was that the USAAF wouldn't risk them nearly as much as allied players will. I actually think that 4E's should be worth 16VP's each, it would better represent how the allies felt about risking them and I think would help game balance.

But, let me get back on topic. Now that you know how to beat them, it is up to you to set the trap and kill them. In '42 the allies are only getting ~36 4E/month. not that many. you put together 2 -3 days of traps each month, and your opponent has just lost his months (and then some) replacement pool.

Francois, I am sorry to say, you have now hit the point where (if you recall I saluted you as a far better man than me) PDU OFF is a real challenge The issue with PDU OFF, as you now know, is that it locks you into the historic IJ tactics/strategy with regards to reacting to 4E's. This is ok if the allied player uses the 4E's historically (with trepidation, rarely except in support of major moves, for patrol/recon purposes exclusively until mid '44). But if the allied player is aggressive with them early, as your opponent is, then you are severely constricted as to what you can do to oppose that. You need/want to change plane types to a better defender against the 4E's, but you can't. Frustrating.

This is why I won't play PDU OFF.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to fcharton)
Post #: 486
RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J) - 5/18/2013 11:25:38 PM   
fcharton

 

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Hi Pax,

I understand your points, but I think I disagree on two counts, flak and the effect of PDU off.

I’ve read that 60% of US combat mission casualties were due to anti-aircraft fire (here, page 9, http://www.anesi.com/ussbs01.htm
“Aggregate United States plane losses during the course of the Pacific war, not including training losses in the United States, were approximately 27,000 planes. Of these losses 8,700 were on combat missions; the remainder were training, ferrying and other noncombat losses. Of the combat losses over 60 percent were to antiaircraft fire”) Game results diverge from this analysis: almost all our losses are combat mission losses, in fact half of them are air to air, and flak losses are very low, even when one includes some of the ops losses. I believe this suggests flak is underpowered. Also, note that the main role of flak was not to shoot bombers (although that was a nice premium), but to prevent them from hitting their target by causing them to lose formation. In practice, this made even a small amount of flak very efficient even against large raids (except for area bombing, which was in a way, a response to flak efficiency), and there was a tendency, on all sides, to penny packet their flak (this is why the Japanese have so many small AA units in the game). The idea that flak must be very concentrated to make any difference, which the game model upholds, makes little sense to me.

I believe AE tends to overestimate combat, and especially air to air, casualties at the expense of all other causes, and this creates the extreme results we often observe (as flak and non-combat losses are a balancing factor).

As for PDU off, I am not sure I follow you. Do you mean you’d use the Nick as your main fighter, to have enough of them when the 4Es attack? In PDU Off, I have 110 Nicks right now, and could double their numbers by upgrading (and buying) more squadrons. With PDU On, I could have some more, but then my opponent would have more front line 4E squadrons (the Allies have a lot of restricted 4E squadrons, which they could upgrade to fill the pools…) I do understand the limits of PDU off when it comes to Helens, or Tojos, but not really for Nicks.


October 16th 1942

This turn was the most uneventful in the war so far. The combat report is only 190 lines long, featuring three night attacks: six Sallies over Imphal, causing one supply hit, six Wellingtons over Mandalay, met by four Tojos, for no damage, five B17-F over Rabaul, met by seven Zeroes 3a, four Zeroes lost. I forgot to escort my CAP, silly me!

During the day there was one small sweep over Burma, where 12 Oscars IIa shot down one P40-K. This is my 36th, amounting to a third of all P40-K produced so far.

Finally, in China, the last KMT stack was attacked again. The fourteen remaining units are mere shells, but they will not surrender. One regiment reinforced the attackers today, it will shock attack tomorrow while the others rest.

Enemy carriers were detected again north of Fiji, together with a large surface force. In the South Pacific, my opponent is building Rossel Island. There are no signs of enemy activity elsewhere.

I believe the next enemy move will be against the Gilberts. Tarawa is my main base there, with level six forts, and two regiments on their way.



(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 487
RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J) - 5/19/2013 2:00:24 AM   
PaxMondo


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Joined: 6/6/2008
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You are correct in the AA losses, but they weren't 4E losses at +10,000 ft. They were fighter/bomber, DB, and 2E on low altitude missions. Those were the most hazardous, but also the only way then to perform tactical bombing ... you had to be low and slow ... perfect for AA.

If PDU ON, at this point you would have 2nd gen Tojo by now and George researched. Both of those are much better than Zero against 4E due to higher DUR.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to fcharton)
Post #: 488
RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J) - 5/20/2013 10:38:27 AM   
fcharton

 

Posts: 951
Joined: 10/4/2010
From: Nemours, France
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October 17th 1942

Something is definitely cooking in the central pacific. Today, one submarine raided Vaitupu and put a torpedo into a Heywood class transport.

Submarine attack near Vaitupu at 138,145
Japanese Ships
SS I-6

Allied Ships
AP Fuller, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Allied ground losses:
Vehicles lost 1 (1 destroyed, 0 disabled)


Although AP Fuller is not reported sunk, she’s probably out of the game for a while.

My opponent seems to use Ellice Islands as his staging base. Ships are spotted again and again, including large transports like this one, and several carriers are keeping watch near the archipelago. I am sending more submarines to try and damage the buildup, but if the CVs remain, I might as well send the KB in this area, and try to kill a few more transports.

I don’t understand the logic of using Ellice Islands. Those are 6k atolls, with no facilities worth building, using there for buildup means delays, overstacking, long commitment of enemy carriers and more time for me to reinforce Tarawa. I’m not complaining.


In China, our shock attack managed to destroy one enemy unit. A fresh division arrived today, and will shock attack tomorrow while the others rest. I suspect I have found the correct way to eliminate those large stacks of depleted units. As their AV is very low, one division fragment is enough to cause damage, and you can rotate those, shock attacking day after day. This is probably one case where splitting divisions into components make sense.


Elsewhere, I am moving units, and pilots, and planes, and trying to figure a strategy for my defense of the Pacific. I want to garrison every base, even lightly. The battle for Ndeni showed that an island with an SNLF company could mobilize a lot of US resources. I believe I have enough very small units for that, and this is my first priority now.

I’m also ramping up ASW. Dedicated Helen squadrons, with skilled pilots, are now flying around Japan and Truk, I also increased ASW patrol settings on my search squadrons, and this is getting lots of submarines detected. My ASW vessels are not being very efficient, though, I need to find out which classes do best, and assemble dedicated groups for hunting detected subs. So far I’ve noticed PB hardly ever hit anything, SC sometimes manage, but rarely, E and DD seem to work better, but not all of them.

Finally, I have been looking at pilot training, and realized that the split of pilot pools between IJN and IJA was partly responsible of my current difficulty manning squadrons. Until now, I had committed IJA to the continent and defense of the DEI, and IJN to defense of the Pacific. But this means most of my IJN fighter squadrons are on the front lines, and I don’t have enough units to train pilots. I am in the process of retiring some squadrons and use them for training. I might also consider resizing those squadrons I have in the home Islands (and maybe some in Manchuria). I am trying to figure some training to front line ratio for all types of units and pilots.

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 489
RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J) - 5/28/2013 10:14:17 PM   
fcharton

 

Posts: 951
Joined: 10/4/2010
From: Nemours, France
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October 18th 1942

Air ASW


My two Helen squadrons are now fighting enemy submarines around Truk and Kobe. Many enemy ships are spotted, and we get a few attack reports every day, and even some hits. Today, air attacks againt SS Tarpon, Grouper and Peto were reported. SS Peto was hit, and is now reported sunk.

So, ASW patrols seem effective, and pilots in those squadrons seem to improve their ASW skill at a very good rate. I will probably add a few Sally squadrons, man them with decent ASW pilots, and go hunting in the Pacific, around Japan, and probably in the East Indies.

Ankang

The last KMT stack, lost in the forests south of Ankang, is slowly yielding to pressure. Today, two units surrendered. This means twelve are left, but it is a good start.

Air Losses

… were 13 to 6 today (I’m the 13, of course). I lost half a dozen zeroes to three P39-D during a sweep over Merauke, the rest are ops losses.


October 19th 1942

Off the coast of Northern Australia


My opponent is supplying his coastal bases by sea. I suspect supplies don’t flow that well. I have a small destroyer squadron in Koepang, which I sometime use to raid his shipping. We got an xAK today, off Windham, not a great victory, but everything counts.

Japanese Ships
DD Maikaze
DD Nowaki
DD Nokaze
DD Numakaze

Allied Ships
xAK Aldinga, Shell hits 5, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk


Rossel Island

I have been detecting ships there for a while, so a submarine was sent to investigate. There was a pretty large bombardment force, and I-33 missed BB Idaho, and was crippled in return. KB is on its way, let’s see if I can break the buildup.

Sub attack near Rossel Island at 105,137

Japanese Ships
SS I-33, hits 16, heavy damage

Allied Ships
BB Idaho
CA San Francisco
CL Honolulu
CL Boise
CL St. Louis
DD Bagley
DD Clark
DD Lamson
DD Mugford

SS I-33 launches 6 torpedoes at BB Idaho


Air losses

Sixteen to four, today. I caught three swordfishes over Trinkat. I’m not sure where the 16 were lost, since there were almost no air battles.

Ankang

Ten units surrendered today, we’re almost done with the last KMT stack, only one unit left…

Kalemyo

The enemy attacked the Imperial Guard division, which just moved in, not very efficiently. My tanks are now in Prome, moving north towards Akyab. Infantry is closing on Lashio.

Ground combat at Kalemyo (59,42)
Allied Shock attack
Attacking force 19129 troops, 280 guns, 543 vehicles, Assault Value = 747
Defending force 12858 troops, 106 guns, 42 vehicles, Assault Value = 463
Allied assault odds: 1 to 1

Japanese ground losses:
504 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 44 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled

Allied ground losses:
940 casualties reported
Squads: 8 destroyed, 189 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 32 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 30 disabled
Guns lost 23 (2 destroyed, 21 disabled)
Vehicles lost 22 (1 destroyed, 21 disabled)


October 20th 1942

China

In Ankang, the last unit surrendered today. I have now conquered China, and destroyed all the KMT. I suppose that means the Japanese will now reinstall the Qing dynasty, probably under a different name, start a new era, and rule by proxy.

Could this really happen? Let’s say I have my doubts, but then, we’ve seen the Allies invading Hokkaido in 1943, the Japanese stuck in Singapore, not having secured Sumatra or Java in late 1942, most of India under Japanese control in mid-42, so why not China…

Gamewise, I believe conquering China is the best strategy for Japan. I’m PDU off, but I don’t have PP for border restrictions, and could reinforce with Manchukuo units, and China needed very additional commitment, save perhaps some supplies from Japan (but China also produces a lot).

Burma is the next target. My opponent still has one attempt near Akyab, but if he fails to dislodge my troops, I believe his counteroffensive in Burma will be over, and we get the initiative in about a month.

Air losses

33 to 40 today, yes, I did shoot more planes down than I lost, game is borked I tell you.

The enemy had a bad day over Trinkat. I have a cargo there unloading supplies. Yesterday, three swordfishes from Port Blair were shot down by my Oscars. My opponent upped the ante today, and sent twelve Vengeance I dive bombers. None of them flew back.

Over Kalemyo, Oscars and Tojo had a field day against Martlett II, Hurricanes and P40K. We shot down over twenty, for a handful of fighters.

Over Rabaul, it was the opposite. Bombers fly unescorted, as usual, and kill whatever oppose them, but P38-F had a field day too. 16 P38 sweeping at long range (eleven hexes from PM, that means extended range with drop tanks) against 63 zeroes and Oscars, resulted in 5 zeroes and Oscars lost, for one P38. Real results are double that, of course. Later sweeps had nine P38-F vs 32 zeroes, with four zeroes lost to nothing. I have 120 fighters in Rabaul, with support, and supply, but it seems a bit pointless.

I believe this turn is relatively typical of late 42 air battles. I’m losing over 100 planes a week these days, for an average exchange rate around 1:4. My industry can sustain that, but navy pilots are becoming a problem. I’m fighting over my bases, yet I lose too many of them. I need to replace the zeroes with IJA Oscars, and switch the zeroes to training.

(in reply to fcharton)
Post #: 490
RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J) - 5/29/2013 4:07:00 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 5761
Joined: 6/6/2008
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Congrats on China. That releives a lot of pressure now, and a whole lot later in the game when SOV activates.

You've got a lot of units that you can now re-deploy. What are your thoughts for all of those? How many will you commit to Burma? Manchuria? PacIsles?

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to fcharton)
Post #: 491
RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J) - 6/12/2013 11:06:39 PM   
fcharton

 

Posts: 951
Joined: 10/4/2010
From: Nemours, France
Status: offline
Sorry for the long delay, people, exchange rate went low in the recent weeks as one of my daughters was ill and I had lots of difficulty concentrating on anything, game or work. Which ouf course meant less time for the game when she was back home and I needed to catch up with the work. The game has reached the end of October, now, so here is some catch up information.

October 21st 1942

Silent Service


My Helen squadrons are reporting a few hits every day. Today, SS Amberjack, patrolling off the coast of Japan, and attacked yesterday by sub chasers, was hit and is reported as sunk. It might be so, or not, but it is nice anyway.

In Ontong Java, an enemy submarine, S-41, sank an unloading cargo, but got a couple of hits in return. Near Milne Bay, I-41 was attacked by three destroyers, and failed to torpedo them.


Air losses

Eleven to seven today, more of the same. We shot down a couple British planes over Burma, Wellingtons, mostly, and lost more zeroes over Rabaul.

The Judy 1 advanced research to December. I am moving the factories to the next model, and will have 500 engines in the bank in a few days.

Next month should be interesting, as the Tony, A6M5 and Oscar IIb are entering production. I have lots of repaired factory reading to begin production. Then in December, we get the Judy, Sally IIb and TojoIIb, and in January the Nick Ic (Ib is a non event with PDU off) and Lilly IIb.


October 22nd 1942

The Hiryu is beginning upgrade in Tokyo. This is the last summer 42 upgrade for KB. I have not been very serious about upgrading my navy, and should work on that in the upcoming turns.

In Trinkat, SS Truant sank a light cargo, but got sunk in return. Like S-41 yesterday, I suspect my opponent gave him a much too aggressive commander, who tried to finish off my merchant ship in the face of two enemy destroyers.

In Kirakira, an unloading light cargo was sunk by Dauntlesses from Ndeni. We’ll have a CAP trap someday…

Air losses were four to five, today.

Finally, my opponent attacked on the road to Akyab. He has 880 AV, but my reinforced division, now under level two field forts, and with tanks, held.

Ground combat at 55,46 (near Akyab)
Allied Deliberate attack
Attacking force 22734 troops, 456 guns, 443 vehicles, Assault Value = 887
Defending force 15070 troops, 159 guns, 239 vehicles, Assault Value = 525

Allied adjusted assault: 275
Japanese adjusted defense: 623
Allied assault odds: 1 to 2

Japanese ground losses:
227 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 17 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled
Vehicles lost 53 (4 destroyed, 49 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
1651 casualties reported
Squads: 18 destroyed, 215 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 30 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 37 disabled
Guns lost 44 (5 destroyed, 39 disabled)
Vehicles lost 14 (1 destroyed, 13 disabled)


My tanks are a few hexes away, and this is probably the last enemy attempt to take this hex. Initiative is shifting, in Burma.

October 23rd 1942

Disappointing KB


KB tried a sneak raid on Rossel island, where an enemy build-up is taking place. Unfortunately, only two Val squadrons managed to fly, part because of bad settings, part because of the weather, and we barely managed to hit CA Australia a couple of times. She’s probably damaged, but not very much, unfortunately.

I will try another attack tomorrow, but I suspect those ships will escape, and the bad weather will probably not help.

Plane losses

A bad day today. Sweeps over Lae destroyed a dozen Zeroes, and Warhawks 40-K were quite effective over Akyab, for a change. I lost 38 planes, mostly fighters, to six enemies, on no really large engagement, just a bad day, as I said.

My plane pools are quite fine, but I’m getting low on pilots. I need to reorganize my training


October 24th 1942

Not much to report today. I lost six planes to one enemy, Lae was bombed, but I had no planes there, and with troops under cover and behind forts, the enemy is mostly wasting his bombs.

Today, with 27 B17 and as many B24 and B25, only one non combat squad was disabled, and two B17 were damaged. Maybe I should just let him bomb, after all…

As expected, the Australian navy managed to escape KB, and nothing was found around Rossel Island.


October 25th 1942

More of the same… A dutch sub was damaged in Dili, and cargo sunk by bombers from Darwin. Enemy bombers tried to attack Rangoon, but I had CAP there, and of a squadron of 11 Hudsons, no plane returned to base. I lost 8 planes to 15 enemies, overall.


October 26th 1942

I lost four planes to eight enemy, not hardly as bloody as I’d like, but still a decent ratio. Very little is happening. My opponents loses a few planes over Burma, my Chinese troops are marching in, the Allies are bombing New Guinea, for little effect, and KB has retired safely from the sub infested waters near the Solomons.


October 27th 1942

Today was our weekly raid on Rabaul. P-38F 32k feet sweeps managed to shoot down quite a few Zeroes, I need to fly higher, but we did shoot a good number of them, and a handful of B17 and B24. I now have a squadron of Nicks, which seem to make a difference.

This final tally was 29 japanese to 17 allies, still not excellent but better than what I used to have. I doubt there will be a follow up strike tomorrow, as fatigue is probably high already.

Near Akyab, the British bombarded my troops, with little effect, but this might suggest an attack is due soon. My tank reinforcements are two days away, if my opponent waits one more day, he is in for a bad surprise. Bombers in Rangoon are in alert, as enemy battleships might decide to bombard the hex.

Near the Home Islands, a US submarine was sunk by Helens. The ASW war is going well, with two reported sinking per week.

October 28th 1942

Akyab was calm today. No bombardment task force sailed in, the british didn’t attack, and my troops will be reinforced.

Near Dili, four destroyers sailing to intercept an enemy submarine near Babar were found by Dauntlesses from Darwin. I had forgotten to LRCAP them from Dili, which is silly, and a destroyer was sunk. The rest will probably escape. I am trying to set up a CAP trap tomorrow, but I doubt my opponent will fall for it.

Plane losses were five to six. I’m not complaining.


(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 492
RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J) - 6/12/2013 11:14:57 PM   
PaxMondo


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Joined: 6/6/2008
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Francois, Good to see you! Trust your daughter is fully recovered. Is this the same one who had her exams?

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to fcharton)
Post #: 493
RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J) - 6/12/2013 11:53:24 PM   
fcharton

 

Posts: 951
Joined: 10/4/2010
From: Nemours, France
Status: offline
Hi Pax,
No, that's the second one, 10 years old. She's home now, so it is better, but they don't know what she has (she sort of faints, from time to time, for no reason), so we're probably in for many more tests, exams, and maybe trips to the hospital throughout the summer. Kids, y'know...


October 29th 1942

A bad day for the Royal Navy


So it turns out that the British wanted to bombard my units on the road near Akyab, but were intercepted on their way from Chittagong, by Betties from Rangoon. At such long range, I believe I was pretty lucky.

Morning Air attack on TF, near Chittagong at 52,41
Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 5
G4M1 Betty x 16

Allied aircraft
Martlet II x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 9 damaged

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
BB Revenge, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
BB Resolution, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage


Both battleships are reported sunk but the VP tally says otherwise. I believe Resolution is a very bad shape, and Revenge might need a while in the yards. Unfortunately, we couldn’t catch them again in the afternoon.

More bombers are on alert, and several task forces have been detected in the bay of Bengal. There is something that might be a lone carrier near Calcutta, the damaged BB near Chittagong, and another large force, apparently going for Port Blair. A surface group from Georgetown has been sent to try and intercept her. Tomorrow should be an interesting day.

As for Akyab, the hex has been reinforced, and the damage on battleships, after the sinking (or maybe not) of BB Valiant a month ago, will probably the the Royal navy a bit cautious.

Empty handed KB

For several days, ships had been detected in Funafuti, but there was no one home when KB arrived. Oh well… you can’t get lucky over both oceans on the same day.


October 30th 1942

Laming the limey


We didn’t catch the British BB, maybe they’re gone. However, a cruiser squadron materialized in Port Blair, together with CAP. My first wave of bombers went in unescorted, but flew low, and Hurricanes and Warhawks were very high, so we had a pretty lucky shot.

Morning Air attack on TF, near Port Blair at 46,58
Weather in hex: Overcast
Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 3,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G3M3 Nell x 18
G4M1 Betty x 18

Allied aircraft
Hurricane IIc Trop x 26
P-40K Warhawk x 19

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M3 Nell: 10 damaged
G3M3 Nell: 1 destroyed by flak
G4M1 Betty: 4 damaged
G4M1 Betty: 1 destroyed by flak

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
CL Birmingham, Torpedo hits 1
CA Dorsetshire, Torpedo hits 1
CA Cornwall, Torpedo hits 1
DD Van Galen


I don’t know what a torpedo hit can mean for a CL or CA, but this is a nice result.

Unfortunately, the second, escorted, raid, from Rangoon, flew at 7000 feet, and enemy fighters had lots of notice. My bombers did fine, but the escort suffered and no enemy ship was hit.

Morning Air attack on TF, near Port Blair at 46,58
Weather in hex: Overcast
Raid detected at 75 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 26 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G3M3 Nell x 5
G4M1 Betty x 9
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 25

Allied aircraft
Hurricane IIc Trop x 26
P-40K Warhawk x 19

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M3 Nell: 2 damaged
G4M1 Betty: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 7 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Hurricane IIc Trop: 1 destroyed
P-40K Warhawk: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
CA Cornwall
CA Dorsetshire, on fire


Dorsetshire and Birmingham are reported sunk. Most of it is probably FOW, but I will claim those two days as a victory.

Now who’s lame?

The afternoon was, unfortunately, much less favorable, as I made a number of mistakes. First, the surface force on its way to Port Blair wasn’t properly capped. It was close to Trinkat, and all I had were three rerouted Oscars, and enemy bombers had a field day.

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Car Nicobar at 45,62
Weather in hex: Overcast

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 3

Allied aircraft
Beaufort I x 3
Hurricane IIc Trop x 5

Allied aircraft losses
Beaufort I: 2 damaged

Japanese Ships
CL Kinu, Torpedo hits 1



Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Car Nicobar at 45,62
Weather in hex: Overcast

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 1

Allied aircraft
Vengeance I x 16

Allied aircraft losses
Vengeance I: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
CA Tone
CL Kiso, Bomb hits 2, on fire
DD Ikazuchi
CL Kinu, Bomb hits 2, on fire


Kinu and Kiso will probably make it back to Georgetown, but this could have been avoided.

Even worse, most of my fighters from Rangoon chose to escort three (!!!) Nells on a raid on Chittagong. There was a lot of CAP, and I lost a dozen planes.

Total losses are 44 japanese planes for 11 allied, most of the 44 could have been avoided. I lost 21 Oscar IIa today, which is not too bad, as I have about 250 more in the pools.

Yet, I am satisfied with those two days, as enemy naval forces around India have definitely been reduced.


(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 494
RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J) - 6/13/2013 1:03:22 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 5761
Joined: 6/6/2008
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Kids, argh, I know. My little was fine, running playing for several hours Friday evening with friends. Then in 2 mins, he comes up to his mother and says he doesn't feel good. All night fighting a fever running 101.8 -> 102.5F Not reallly high, but high enough to worry and he is sick. Go to doc in morning, office is full of kids with exact same thing. What is it? No one knows, including doc. By 4pm that same day, he is fine, running around like nothing ever happened. Kids!

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to fcharton)
Post #: 495
RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J) - 6/17/2013 9:36:29 PM   
fcharton

 

Posts: 951
Joined: 10/4/2010
From: Nemours, France
Status: offline
October 31st 1942 – Port Blair, the third day

Oscars sweeping from Bangkok took some revenge from the Hurricanes and Warhawks. This is something I have noticed with allied fighters, or perhaps the way my opponent uses them: they tend to be very dangerous on the first day, but often put up a very bad show on the second day. Fatigue, maybe…

Anyway, today a first sweep downed half a dozen enemy fighters, and we lost an equivalent number.

Morning Air attack on Port Blair , at 46,58
Weather in hex: Severe storms

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 29

Allied aircraft
Hurricane IIc Trop x 29
P-40K Warhawk x 8

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 5 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Hurricane IIc Trop: 3 destroyed
P-40K Warhawk: 1 destroyed


Then, an escorted raid sank a light cargo, and shot down more Hurricanes (note the diminishing number of fighters)

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Port Blair at 46,58
Weather in hex: Severe storms

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 13
G3M3 Nell x 13

Allied aircraft
Hurricane IIc Trop x 18
P-40K Warhawk x 5

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed
G3M3 Nell: 3 damaged
G3M3 Nell: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
Hurricane IIc Trop: 2 destroyed
P-40K Warhawk: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
KV Fritillary
xAKL Louisianan, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
KV Cyclamen


And finally, a third raid went in unescorted, and unopposed…

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Port Blair at 46,58
Weather in hex: Severe storms

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 6

Allied aircraft
Hurricane IIc Trop x 7

No Japanese losses
No Allied losses

Allied Ships
xAKL Memphis City, Bomb hits 1, on fire
xAKL Mabella, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage


Overall, we shot 21 enemy planes down, for 27 ours. I am fine with such exchange rates. So far, the Allies have lost 74 P40-K, out of 130 produced, and 61 Martlett II, which is pretty much all they produced. We also have shot down 83 Hurricanes II-c, but they produce a lot of those.

The enemy cruisers we damaged yesterday were nowhere to be seen. Three of them show up as sunk, but I have my doubts about that. Our damaged cruisers are now out of harm’s way, and slowly sailing back to Singapore for repairs.

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 496
RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J) - 6/21/2013 10:46:58 PM   
fcharton

 

Posts: 951
Joined: 10/4/2010
From: Nemours, France
Status: offline
November 1st 1942

Bombers over Burma


6 Wellingtons visited Mandalay yesterday night, and six returned home in damaged state. None was reported shot down, unfortunately, but I suspect those are the last Wellingtons my opponent has. According to Tracker, we shot down 42 of those, my opponent produced 42 since the beginning of the war, and received 17 as reinforcements.

There are less and less bombing runs over my bases, here, which suggests enemy pools are low. This is a good thing as the land offensive is about to begin.

New toys

I am getting three new fighter models this month. The Tony 1a is now available, as its engine entered production today. And then, we get the Oscar IIb and the A6M5.

Oscarwise, I am converting almost 250 factories from IIa to IIb, which means we’ll have a lot of those planes very soon. I have lots of IIa frames in the pools, so I want to keep those squadrons, upgrade some Nates and I-c to IIb, and retire most of the old models to training duty.

In the IJN, I will produce 80 A6M5 and keep as many A6M3a. I am very short on planes and pilots, there, and want to upgrade my carriers first. I intend to retire many squadrons now operating in Rabaul to pilot training mission in Japan (or to keep watch over less contested areas).

In other words, I used to have the IJN fight in the pacific, and the IJA in China and Burma, and this means the IJN was a bit strained, and lack sufficient training. Now that I have good IJA fighters, I want to deploy them in the pacific, and let the IJN train more pilots in the rear.

This should continue for a couple of months, as I am getting more army fighters in December (Tojo IIb), and January (Nick Ic).

I believe I am slowly beginning to understand how PDU off should be played. As you can’t upgrade squadrons as you wish, you need to rotate instead, sending new models to the front, and retiring old frames as they become obsolete. This also means you need to upgrade the old models too. Right now, I am slowly phasing out Nates, but I am keeping the Oscar Ic, which will upgrade in due time. Pools also play an interesting role. I have pools of IIa, which means I won’t upgrade those squadrons, anytime soon.

Finally, there is an interesting trade-off between upgrading factories at a cost and expanding existing ones. I still produce 270 A6M2 every month, and would rather expand my A6M3a and A6M5 factories, than convert A6M2 and repair them. I might stop the A6M2 at some point, and wait for the Sen Baku (now being researched) and5b.


Supply, Fuel and Oil

I have little to say about the economy. Supply levels are stable at around 5.4 million tons. Fuel stocks are up, around 7.7 million tons (more if you add ship bunkers), un 10k per day. Oil stocks are a little over 4 million tons, slowly diminsishing, and finally, we are producing a lot more resources than we need (, over 15 million tons now, thanks China and the lack of strategic bombing there).

HI stocks are a little over 1.8 million points, we are saving about 7100 points per day. So far, the economy wasn’t too difficult. I understand both scenario 2 and PDU off help a lot in this respect.


(in reply to fcharton)
Post #: 497
RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J) - 6/22/2013 12:50:06 AM   
obvert


Posts: 6993
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

Finally, there is an interesting trade-off between upgrading factories at a cost and expanding existing ones. I still produce 270 A6M2 every month, and would rather expand my A6M3a and A6M5 factories, than convert A6M2 and repair them. I might stop the A6M2 at some point, and wait for the Sen Baku (now being researched) and5b.


Wow.

That is a lot of A6M2! I tried to keep one factory until the Sen Baku came out, then later realized it was far too long a wait and the Sen Baku is not really needed anyway at that point.

I'm not sure how it is with PDU off, but if there is any chance to use a few groups of Georges and Jacks instead of the zero line after about mid-43 that will improve your chances. I'm interested as I'd like to play with PDU off sometime just to see what it's like.

_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to fcharton)
Post #: 498
RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J) - 6/22/2013 1:28:46 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 5761
Joined: 6/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: fcharton

I believe I am slowly beginning to understand how PDU off should be played. As you can’t upgrade squadrons as you wish, you need to rotate instead, sending new models to the front, and retiring old frames as they become obsolete. This also means you need to upgrade the old models too.


That's about the only thing I remember from my one game of PDU OFF. Nice to have my thoughts confirmed.

Your economy looks great.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to fcharton)
Post #: 499
RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J) - 6/22/2013 1:31:08 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 5761
Joined: 6/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

Finally, there is an interesting trade-off between upgrading factories at a cost and expanding existing ones. I still produce 270 A6M2 every month, and would rather expand my A6M3a and A6M5 factories, than convert A6M2 and repair them. I might stop the A6M2 at some point, and wait for the Sen Baku (now being researched) and5b.


Wow.

That is a lot of A6M2! I tried to keep one factory until the Sen Baku came out, then later realized it was far too long a wait and the Sen Baku is not really needed anyway at that point.

I'm not sure how it is with PDU off, but if there is any chance to use a few groups of Georges and Jacks instead of the zero line after about mid-43 that will improve your chances. I'm interested as I'd like to play with PDU off sometime just to see what it's like.

There are only a couple of groups for each model that can upgrade to those, and IIRC some of them are static to the HI. So in PDU OFF hardly worth the supplies to build them .... PDU OFF is a really different game. YOu will have quite a few units still flying Nates in late 44 and then they upgrade all the way to Oscar!

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 500
RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J) - 6/23/2013 1:14:56 AM   
fcharton

 

Posts: 951
Joined: 10/4/2010
From: Nemours, France
Status: offline
Hi Obvert,

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
That is a lot of A6M2! I tried to keep one factory until the Sen Baku came out, then later realized it was far too long a wait and the Sen Baku is not really needed anyway at that point.

I'm not sure how it is with PDU off, but if there is any chance to use a few groups of Georges and Jacks instead of the zero line after about mid-43 that will improve your chances. I'm interested as I'd like to play with PDU off sometime just to see what it's like.


With PDU Off (scenario 2) Jacks are almost useless in 1943. You have two groups that can convert to J2M2, but one arrived on the 30th of September (equipped with A6M2, which must convert to A6M5 and then to Jacks), and the other one arrives in February 44. I am accelerating the Jack in order to get later models, but that's at best a 44 plane, in this setting.

The Georges are pretty much the same : there is a squadron on map that can convert, but it is permanently restricted to the home islands. Three squadrons arrive in November 43. Again, it is more a 44 than 43 plane.

With PDU off, in 1943, the IJN is mostly restricted to the Zero line. The IJA, on the other hand, gets Nicks, Oscar IIb, Tojo IIb, and a lot of squadrons that can convert. I believe the correct strategy (which I'll certainly implement in my next game) is to use your Zeroes in the early months of 42, then retire the IJN squadrons and assign them to rear area duties, while IJA planes, fresh from China and Burma, are rotated to the front. This gives you time to train the IJN pilots that will fight in 44, once your IJA pools (and especially their pilots) are depleted...

Which is another reason to keep the Zero factories. One thing I have noticed is that converting a factory out of the upgrade path means a lot of supplies, but also a very long delay. Large factories repair 1 point per day, which means those big zero factories, will need 6 months to convert. I might live to regret it, but I think I'd rather close them, wait for the Sen Baku, and the 5b, and have 200 factories (maybe more) producing 5b in early 1944.

Francois



< Message edited by fcharton -- 6/23/2013 1:15:20 AM >

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 501
RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J) - 6/23/2013 2:41:25 PM   
fcharton

 

Posts: 951
Joined: 10/4/2010
From: Nemours, France
Status: offline
November 2nd 1942

I have very little to report today. Enemy bombers attacked Rabaul, unescorted as usual, and shot fighters down

Morning Air attack on Rabaul , at 106,125
Weather in hex: Heavy cloud
Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 35
A6M3a Zero x 23
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 8
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 15

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 24
B-17F Fortress x 20
B-24D Liberator x 21

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed, 9 damaged
A6M2 Zero: 3 destroyed on ground
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 1 destroyed, 5 damaged
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 3 destroyed on ground
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 15 damaged
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 3 destroyed on ground

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 16 damaged
B-17F Fortress: 3 damaged
B-24D Liberator: 7 damaged


Final tally is 28:4, with zeroes taking most damage. I will reinforce Rabaul, and go on producing more and more fighters. I understand my opponent doesn’t produce B17 anymore (the next series is in 1945), but I will fight more B24 for the rest of the year. All this is getting a bit expensive, but I suppose there is no way around it. And whereas I am losing a lot of planes, so far, the air battle didn’t do the allies much good.

November 3rd 1942

Enemy bombers visited Rabaul at night. A B17 and a B24 were shot down by the flak, for a change.
Off Colombo, a british cargo was torpedoed and sunk.

ASW efforts seem to be paying. Enemy submarines detected around Truk get hit time and again. I don’t think I can sink them, but they are wasting their precious time covering their metallic bums, and not stalking at my shipping. A good trade.

November 4th 1942

Things are heating in Burma. My opponent seems to be evacuating the road hex south of Akyab. I bombarded today, and found 800 AV, on their way out. I cannot fight such an opposition, but if armored units retreat first, the rest is toast.

Ground combat at 55,46 (near Akyab)
Japanese Bombardment attack
Attacking force 13946 troops, 147 guns, 47 vehicles, Assault Value = 901
Defending force 22528 troops, 453 guns, 443 vehicles, Assault Value = 848

Allied ground losses:
25 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 3 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
7th Ind.Tank Brigade
13th Tank Regiment
3rd Tank Regiment
23rd Tank Regiment
10th Tank Regiment
14th Tank Regiment
11th Tank Regiment
5th Guards Division

Defending units:
23rd Indian Division
3rd Carabiniers Regiment
4th British Brigade
5th British Brigade
6th British Brigade
16th British Brigade
6th Medium Regiment


Here is a map of the situation in Burma. On the coast, I intend to move to the end of the road, and threaten to cut the road to Akyab and Cox Bazaar, hoping this forces my opponent to evacuate and provide me with a good supply base (Akyab) for my offensive on Chittagong. I have five infantry divisions and lots of tanks commited to this sector.

My main force is around Schwebo, marching on Kalemyo, held by half a dozen British and Indian units. Two smaller forces, In Katha and Myitkina, are marching to cut the road to Kalemyo. My targets are Kalemyo, and then Imphal and Dinapur, but a column could be sent from Kalemyo towards Chittagong, to put more pressure on Akyab and Cox Bazaar.

To summarize, my short term plan for Burma is to isolate and capture Akyab and Kaelmyo, then proceed on Imphal and Cox, and take and hold the jungle area (and the Ledo valley) by March 1943.






Attachment (1)

(in reply to fcharton)
Post #: 502
RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J) - 6/24/2013 9:00:42 PM   
fcharton

 

Posts: 951
Joined: 10/4/2010
From: Nemours, France
Status: offline
November 5th 1942

Success over Rabaul


Enemy bombers attacked Rabaul today, and we had a pretty good day. That might be the Nicks, the better organization of CAP, or just luck, but things went fine for a change.

It began with a high altitude sweep from P38-G. They probably fly from Milne Bay, which explains why they arrived before the bombers, and why my CAP was full. Odds were almost 8:1, which seems to be almost enough…

Morning Air attack on Rabaul , at 106,125
Weather in hex: Heavy rain
Raid detected at 39 NM, estimated altitude 29,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 45
A6M3a Zero x 23
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 8
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 40
Allied aircraft
P-38G Lightning x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 1 destroyed
Allied aircraft losses
P-38G Lightning: 2 destroyed


6 P38-G are reported lost, five to air to air, and one to damage. This is about 25% of the current stock the allies have… Good riddance. 15 fighters were lost or aborted at this point, so losses were probably close to 1:1.

Then, the bombers came in, probably from Rabaul, and escorted by P38-F. We still had 100 fighters, against 64 twin engine bombers, and 17 fighters.

Morning Air attack on Rabaul , at 106,125
Weather in hex: Heavy rain
Raid detected at 34 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 38
A6M3a Zero x 21
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 7
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 35
Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 16
B-25C Mitchell x 48
P-38F Lightning x 17

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed, 5 damaged
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed on ground
A6M3a Zero: 1 damaged
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 5 damaged
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 1 destroyed on ground
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 3 destroyed, 2 damaged
Allied aircraft losses
B-25C Mitchell: 1 damaged
B-25C Mitchell: 3 destroyed, 2 damaged
P-38F Lightning: 3 destroyed


Airbase hits 3
Runway hits 21

8 P-38F and 7 B-25C were reported shot down. I probably lost almost as many, but half of my CAP aborted at this point, when the 4 engine nasties arrived, unescorted of course… I still had 15 Nicks in the air, which probably were the reason why several bombers were shot down.

Morning Air attack on Rabaul , at 106,125
Weather in hex: Heavy rain
Raid detected at 39 NM, estimated altitude 19,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 19
A6M3a Zero x 15
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 5
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 15
Allied aircraft
B-17F Fortress x 7
B-24D Liberator x 15
Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed
A6M3a Zero: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 1 destroyed
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-17F Fortress: 1 destroyed, 5 damaged
B-24D Liberator: 1 destroyed, 4 damaged


The next waves of bombers were fought by less and less fighters…

Morning Air attack on Rabaul , at 106,125
Weather in hex: Heavy rain
Raid detected at 19 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 8
A6M3a Zero x 2
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 4

Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 9

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D Liberator: 2 damaged

Morning Air attack on Rabaul , at 106,125
Weather in hex: Heavy rain
Raid detected at 35 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 3
A6M3a Zero x 1
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 2

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 14
B-17F Fortress x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 2 damaged
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 1 destroyed on ground
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 1 destroyed on ground

No Allied losses

Morning Air attack on Rabaul , at 106,125
Weather in hex: Heavy rain
Raid detected at 20 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 1
A6M3a Zero x 1
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 1
Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 9
Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed on ground
Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 2 damaged


Overall, the enemy lost 8 P-38F, 6 P-38G, 7 B25, 3 B24, 2 B17F and 2 B17E, 28 planes. I lost 10 Nicks, 8 A6M2, 6 A6M3a, and 4 Oscar IIa, 28 planes too. I am quite satisfied with this outcome.

Enemy forces were quite impressive too: I counted 32 fighters, 64 B-25C, 34 B-24, and 40 B-17. Knowing that not all every 4E bombers flew (Rabaul is a level 6 airfield, there must be a penalty), and that more are probably repairing, this certainly says something about Allied focus on Rabaul.

I have more Nicks on the way, I will be trying my first Oscar IIb squadron in a few days, and I am trying to pull a Tojo Sentai back. This means I could probably phase the A6M2 out.

I will probably regret writing this, but I’d like to think the reign of enemy bombers over Rabaul has come to an end…

And your usual blunder

Deep inside the AE code, there must be some special subroutine which checks, every turn, that every success is compensated with a failure. Call it the wargaming equivalent of the action-reaction principle.

Today, a squadron of Lilies from Kunming, which I had ordered to bomb Ledo and forgotten after they failed to take off on several occasions, decided to fly… and were met by a strong CAP… 17 Lilies are lost. I will survive this, but it hurts nevertheless.


(in reply to fcharton)
Post #: 503
RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J) - 6/24/2013 11:44:46 PM   
obvert


Posts: 6993
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
Nice work against the Rabaul strikes! Getting 1:1 is a rare day and you are doing well with what you have there. Early on if he's using those P-38s to escort, that is great for you. They're vulnerable there having to stay close in to the bombers.

About your Lillies. I remember those days fondly now. The agony of a missed setting and half a group shot down. It hurt every time. Now, my last two turns, just to put things in a later game perspective:

545 losses and 467 losses!

_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to fcharton)
Post #: 504
RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J) - 6/24/2013 11:57:29 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 5761
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: fcharton

Today, a squadron of Lilies from Kunming, which I had ordered to bomb Ledo and forgotten after they failed to take off on several occasions, decided to fly… and were met by a strong CAP… 17 Lilies are lost. I will survive this, but it hurts nevertheless.



Yeah, this is something that bites me all the time ... exactly this way. Weather stops the bombing run, I forget about them, and then they do fly and get creamed. It ain't the airframes, its the pilots. Especially bomber pilots which take my much longer to develop than fighter pilots.

Argh!!



_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to fcharton)
Post #: 505
RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J) - 6/26/2013 11:31:31 AM   
fcharton

 

Posts: 951
Joined: 10/4/2010
From: Nemours, France
Status: offline
@obvert: 500 planes a day… how long can both of you last at this rate? Or do you have tens of thousands in pools?

November 6th 1942

Burma now


For a few days, my opponent was seen evacuating the road hex south of Akyab. Today, as I was expecting his tanks to be gone, and his infantry to have lost their field fortifications, we tried a deliberate attack.

It began with a naval artillery preparation

Night Naval bombardment of Akyab at 55,46
Japanese Ships
BB Fuso
BB Nagato
CA Tone
CL Natori
CL Nagara

Allied ground losses:
75 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 3 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 13 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 2 (1 destroyed, 1 disabled)


This is a bit disappointing, but then, it might have helped with disruption, and so we got:

Ground combat at 55,46 (near Akyab)
Japanese Deliberate attack
Attacking force 20001 troops, 159 guns, 919 vehicles, Assault Value = 904
Defending force 19420 troops, 411 guns, 341 vehicles, Assault Value = 674
Japanese adjusted assault: 534
Allied adjusted defense: 623
Japanese assault odds: 1 to 2

Japanese ground losses:
141 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 24 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 4 disabled
Vehicles lost 123 (6 destroyed, 117 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
1342 casualties reported
Squads: 3 destroyed, 121 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 20 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 36 disabled
Guns lost 57 (1 destroyed, 56 disabled)
Vehicles lost 17 (1 destroyed, 16 disabled)

Assaulting units:
7th Ind.Tank Brigade
14th Tank Regiment
13th Tank Regiment
23rd Tank Regiment
11th Tank Regiment
10th Tank Regiment
3rd Tank Regiment
5th Guards Division

Defending units:
4th British Brigade
23rd Indian Division
5th British Brigade
6th British Brigade
6th Medium Regiment

The timing was apparently correct, as we faced five units, compared to seven two days ago. Also, disruption is still reasonable despite the 1:2 odds, and disablements in bad supply flow country should significantly reduce enemy AV. I’m trying again tomorrow, with a little luck, there will be less units, and we can rout them.

Holidays

My opponent already left for his holidays, and we have nothing planned this summer. I was a bit late organizing this, and then the illness of the little one made scheduling a bit difficult. I am planning to work less, though, and am considering my hobby options.

My main hobbies, these days, are music and maths. I have found a good violinist living almost next door, and a lot of time is spent playing the piano (I’ll post links to pieces we’re playing). I think I like chamber music more than solo practice, a bit like PBEM vs AI, if you like. As for maths, I’m a big fan of project Euler (www.projecteuler.net), which is a good mixture of maths and programming.

But this probably leaves time to do something new this summer, and I was beginning to think about starting a game as the Allies. I have absolutely no experience, and thought a game (and most probably an AAR) about what being a Allied virgin is all about, might be fun (in a JFB masochistic kind of way, of course…). The alternative are a few translation projects (from the Chinese) I have on hold.

It is still a plan, so far, so if you play Japan, and are in no hurry, I read my PM and mail…



< Message edited by fcharton -- 6/26/2013 2:52:26 PM >

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 506
RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J) - 6/28/2013 11:21:19 PM   
fcharton

 

Posts: 951
Joined: 10/4/2010
From: Nemours, France
Status: offline
November 7th 1942

And Rabaul again


Today, enemy bombers visited Rabaul… and suffered again.

The first wave of bombers (B25C) was escorted. Most of my CAP was lower, and so we suffered, but took a couple of bombers.

Morning Air attack on Rabaul , at 106,125
Weather in hex: Moderate rain
Raid detected at 39 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 28
A6M3a Zero x 29
Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 3
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 28

Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 31
P-38F Lightning x 17

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 7 damaged
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed on ground
Ki-43-IIb Oscar: 1 destroyed
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
B-25C Mitchell: 2 destroyed, 7 damaged


Then came the buffs, which made a mess of my fighters

Morning Air attack on Rabaul , at 106,125
Weather in hex: Moderate rain
Raid detected at 29 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 25
A6M3a Zero x 29
Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 2
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 27

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 23

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 4 damaged
A6M2 Zero: 3 destroyed on ground
A6M3a Zero: 1 destroyed
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 1 destroyed, 12 damaged


One B17 is reported shot down, but the final tally is three. 1:2 odds, but it is always nice to shoot a few B-17. But since that raid was not very large, and, more importantly, had no escort, mosty of my fighter remained in the air, and the next raid, unaccompanied Mitchells, had no chance

Morning Air attack on Rabaul , at 106,125
Weather in hex: Moderate rain
Raid spotted at 24 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 17
A6M3a Zero x 25
Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 2
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 23

Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 16

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3a Zero: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-25C Mitchell: 8 destroyed, 4 damaged


And then we had:

Morning Air attack on Rabaul , at 106,125
Weather in hex: Moderate rain
Raid detected at 21 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 10
A6M3a Zero x 15
Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 1
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 15

Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 13

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3a Zero: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-25C Mitchell: 4 destroyed, 4 damaged


Overall, we shot down 30 enemies, B25-C mostly, for 21 planes (most of them zeroes). That’s a month worth production of B25 in a day. I’m still far from depleting his pools, but every little bit helps.

Front lines

The more I look at my lines, the more I realize I am woefully unprepared right now. Of the 630 bases I hold, more than half are not garrisoned, and some areas, like Flores, and Timor, could fall very easily to a determined offensive. Fortunately, I believe my opponent was made prudent by the losses around Ndeni (the Lexington and a number of warships, just to take a small island held by a mere SNLF company, and is worried by the situation in Burma.

As a result, I am moving forward all the units I can find, and am trying to free more by moving restricted units from China into Indochina and Malaysia. The short term goal is to garrison, even lightly, all the front line bases I hold, to deny my opponent any free lunch. This is something I really should have done as I invaded: leave a unit, no matter how small, in every base you conquer that will be on your front line in late 42.

I believe I can correct this in a couple of months, February, say. My front line will not be as solid as I'd like, but it should be defendable. In the meantime, I intend to be as agressive as I can in Burma, and to show my carriers a bit, to try and dissuade my opponent.

Also, I also intend to slowly evacuate the southern Solomons, leave token garrisons, and move the troops to the Bismarck sea (and perhaps the northern Solomons). There is no point being cut off there, and I am happy leaving this area to my opponent in early 1943. In fact, I think I'd like him to notice the evacuation, and take advantage of it. Conquering Guadalcanal in early 43 achieves little, strategically, but if it can divert allies efforts while I repair my front lines, it is well worth the gambit.



< Message edited by fcharton -- 6/28/2013 11:30:25 PM >

(in reply to fcharton)
Post #: 507
RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J) - 6/29/2013 12:22:03 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 5761
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline
Ach, 11, 8, and 6 min warnings on those 3 attacks ... that is the key issue in your CAP. If you have to park some CA's that have gotten radar there to help .... you gotta get more warning or your luck is going to run out ...

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to fcharton)
Post #: 508
RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J) - 6/29/2013 12:53:54 AM   
fcharton

 

Posts: 951
Joined: 10/4/2010
From: Nemours, France
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
Ach, 11, 8, and 6 min warnings on those 3 attacks ... that is the key issue in your CAP. If you have to park some CA's that have gotten radar there to help .... you gotta get more warning or your luck is going to run out ...


A very good point! Looking back, I can see most of the raids that went very wrong had such short warnings.
In Rabaul, I have 2 Ta-Chi 3 and one Type 2 radars, but I dont seem to have ship radars now. In fact, apart from the Shokaku (which I won't park in in Rabaul), I haven't seen a radar abord, and the first upgrades with radars at in March 43.

Francois

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 509
RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J) - 6/29/2013 12:55:29 AM   
fcharton

 

Posts: 951
Joined: 10/4/2010
From: Nemours, France
Status: offline
November 8th 1942

Burma


South of Akyab, our troops attacked after a day of rest. Only three enemy units were left, in move mode, no match for my tanks and infantry. Interestingly, those units did not retreat north east; along the road towards India, but east, into the jungle. We are now moving into the road hex east of Akyab. If we can capture it before the three units can march in, those troops will be cut off.

This reatreat cuts both ways, though. Now, the guard division that just advanced east of Akyab, and forced those units to retreat into Burma, is cut off from its supply base.




November 9th 1942

The lone guardsmen

East of Akyab, the enemy attacked my lone division. It was costly, but we held our ground.

Ground combat at 55,45 (near Akyab)
Allied Deliberate attack
Attacking force 12361 troops, 225 guns, 504 vehicles, Assault Value = 513
Defending force 12568 troops, 121 guns, 47 vehicles, Assault Value = 402
Allied adjusted assault: 166
Japanese adjusted defense: 565
Allied assault odds: 1 to 3

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), supply(-)
Attacker: fatigue(-)

Japanese ground losses:
1165 casualties reported
Squads: 5 destroyed, 76 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 7 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 10 disabled

Allied ground losses:
85 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 8 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Vehicles lost 8 (2 destroyed, 6 disabled)

Assaulting units:
254th Armoured Brigade
3rd Carabiniers Regiment
4th British Brigade
6th British Brigade
16th British Brigade

Defending units:
6th Guards Division


Two tank regiments are arriving tomorrow, reopening the lifeline to Rangoon. More units will be there the day after. For my opponent, it is tomorrow or never.

Kido-Bait

Kido Butai is now five carriers strong. With Lexington sunk and Yorktown probably in yard for a while, this should be enough. My other carriers are relocating to Surabaya, to punish enemy attemps in this area.

Today, I had ordered KB to sneak south of Shortlands, and bombard Rossel Island, just in case we’d find more big ships there. Unfortunately, there was nothing to be bombed in Rossel, and KB was detected by LB-30 from Ndeni, on naval attack. Given the damage I have seen heavy bombers dealing, I was more than a little afraid, but it seems their very low maneuverability make them inefficient against ships. And for once, my CAP had a field day: seven LB-30 are reported shot down, for a total of 17 out of 24 produced.

KB will now retire, I am not trying my luck another day. But it might make my opponent prudent in this area, which suits me fine.




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< Message edited by fcharton -- 6/29/2013 12:56:54 AM >

(in reply to fcharton)
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