Matrix Games Forums

War in the West gets its first update!Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm version 2.08 is now available!Command gets huge update!Order of Battle: Pacific Featured on Weekly Streaming SessionA new fight for Battle Academy!Buzz Aldrin's Space Program Manager is out for Mac!The definitive wargame of the Western Front is out now! War in the West gets teaser trailer and Twitch Stream!New Preview AAR for War in the West!War in the West Manual preview
Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

RE: New Alt 1941-45 CG Scenario Request

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> RE: New Alt 1941-45 CG Scenario Request Page: <<   < prev  1 [2]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: New Alt 1941-45 CG Scenario Request - 2/25/2012 8:22:16 PM   
Aurelian

 

Posts: 2319
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jazman


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian
Unfortuantely the campaign victory conditions are hard coded


This game looks at modders and tweakers with a brutal, ruthless gleam in its eyes.




And yet, quite a lot can be edited. One can even add, say, a Maus.

Or: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2998371

< Message edited by Aurelian -- 2/25/2012 11:47:59 PM >

(in reply to jazman)
Post #: 31
RE: New Alt 1941-45 CG Scenario Request - 2/25/2012 11:06:01 PM   
Oloren

 

Posts: 48
Joined: 3/24/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Aurelian:
Unfortuantely the campaign victory conditions are hard coded


Just because it's hard coded doesn't mean it's difficult to implement, especially if we are only talking about a single total value like VP.

(in reply to Aurelian)
Post #: 32
RE: New Alt 1941-45 CG Scenario Request - 2/25/2012 11:34:29 PM   
jazman

 

Posts: 367
Joined: 1/20/2007
From: Crush Depth
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Oloren

quote:

Aurelian:
Unfortuantely the campaign victory conditions are hard coded


Just because it's hard coded doesn't mean it's difficult to implement, especially if we are only talking about a single total value like VP.


Didn't I see somewhere someone say that optional rules are hard to implement here? So we're left with one-size-fits-all?


_____________________________

BS, MS, PhD, WitP:AE, WitE

(in reply to Oloren)
Post #: 33
RE: New Alt 1941-45 CG Scenario Request - 2/25/2012 11:43:22 PM   
Aurelian

 

Posts: 2319
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Oloren

quote:

Aurelian:
Unfortuantely the campaign victory conditions are hard coded


Just because it's hard coded doesn't mean it's difficult to implement, especially if we are only talking about a single total value like VP.


So take it up with Joel. Being that they are his words. Words such as "and getting them into the editor is not a trivial task."

So something that is not a trivial task is easy?

(in reply to Oloren)
Post #: 34
RE: New Alt 1941-45 CG Scenario Request - 2/26/2012 1:54:20 AM   
Oloren

 

Posts: 48
Joined: 3/24/2007
Status: offline
Clone the scenario and edit the new one. The program is likely very well written and organized. It should not be rocket science, assuming they have resources available to work on it.

(in reply to Aurelian)
Post #: 35
RE: New Alt 1941-45 CG Scenario Request - 2/26/2012 2:17:20 AM   
AFV


Posts: 372
Joined: 12/24/2011
From: Dallas, Texas
Status: offline
I find it quite hard to believe that changing a "292" to a "260" would be a major undertaking. I'm not saying they will do it, should do it, or want to do it- but certainly if they decided to, it would be rather routine. The length of the scenario might be more difficult.
I doubt they would have even made the posts if it was not possible to make those type changes.

(in reply to Oloren)
Post #: 36
RE: New Alt 1941-45 CG Scenario Request - 2/26/2012 2:30:09 AM   
gradenko_2000

 

Posts: 861
Joined: 12/27/2010
Status: offline
I don't think it's the difficulty of changing 292 to 260. It's probably all the re-coding involved in moving that particular variable from being in the executable to instead being read off a user-defined setting in the editor.

Having said that, I do agree that they probably wouldn't have asked if they didn't think it was a plausible venture, even if for something that would only come into play by War in the West.

(in reply to AFV)
Post #: 37
RE: New Alt 1941-45 CG Scenario Request - 2/26/2012 2:54:34 AM   
Aurelian

 

Posts: 2319
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AFV

I find it quite hard to believe that changing a "292" to a "260" would be a major undertaking. I'm not saying they will do it, should do it, or want to do it- but certainly if they decided to, it would be rather routine. The length of the scenario might be more difficult.
I doubt they would have even made the posts if it was not possible to make those type changes.


Nobody said it isn't possible. Just not a trivial task.

But I think it will be in WiTW.

(in reply to AFV)
Post #: 38
RE: New Alt 1941-45 CG Scenario Request - 2/26/2012 2:57:17 AM   
Aurelian

 

Posts: 2319
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Oloren

Clone the scenario and edit the new one. The program is likely very well written and organized. It should not be rocket science, assuming they have resources available to work on it.


Yeah, sure. If was that easy, it would be a trivial task. And yet "it is not a trivial task."

(in reply to Oloren)
Post #: 39
RE: New Alt 1941-45 CG Scenario Request - 2/26/2012 2:58:20 AM   
Aurelian

 

Posts: 2319
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: gradenko_2000

I don't think it's the difficulty of changing 292 to 260. It's probably all the re-coding involved in moving that particular variable from being in the executable to instead being read off a user-defined setting in the editor.

Having said that, I do agree that they probably wouldn't have asked if they didn't think it was a plausible venture, even if for something that would only come into play by War in the West.


IIRC, it is supposed to be in WiTW.

(in reply to gradenko_2000)
Post #: 40
RE: New Alt 1941-45 CG Scenario Request - 2/26/2012 3:24:23 AM   
Oloren

 

Posts: 48
Joined: 3/24/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Yeah, sure. If was that easy, it would be a trivial task. And yet "it is not a trivial task."


Ok, it would also involve an interface change in the executable. I've been developing software for over 30 years and while it may not be trivial, it does not sound like it would be especially difficult. Most likely, it is a matter of resources.

(in reply to Aurelian)
Post #: 41
RE: New Alt 1941-45 CG Scenario Request - 2/26/2012 4:23:00 AM   
gradenko_2000

 

Posts: 861
Joined: 12/27/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Oloren
Ok, it would also involve an interface change in the executable. I've been developing software for over 30 years and while it may not be trivial, it does not sound like it would be especially difficult. Most likely, it is a matter of resources.

Resources would probably be a better descriptor, yes. When your devs are knee-deep in making the next game, you don't/won't spend as many man-hours going back to the released, aside from specific pain-points, under-utilized devs that deal with a particular subject, or features that you're making in the next game with the intent of back-porting it later on.

(in reply to Oloren)
Post #: 42
RE: New Alt 1941-45 CG Scenario Request - 2/26/2012 5:38:59 AM   
Aurelian

 

Posts: 2319
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline
And this paticular issue isn't a pain point.

Quite possible, it can be back ported after WiTW.

Ageod has done that with AACW. Backporting some things from RoP.

(in reply to gradenko_2000)
Post #: 43
RE: New Alt 1941-45 CG Scenario Request - 2/26/2012 5:49:26 AM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 21928
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: online
Ok, here's what we've done based on what we felt we could do quickly and relatively safely, while also trying to please the most people based on the polls (and realize that the 100 or so people that answered the polls are a tiny sample size of WitE players, but we do listen to the opinions of the serious players).

We've created an alternate campaign 41-45 scenario that ends at the start of turn 212 (first turn of July). In this scenario, the German auto victory is set to 260 (remember, Leningrad/Moscow/Stalingrad is about 245, so this requires a bit more than just those cities). The Soviet Major Victory now ends 3/31/45, while a Soviet Minor can be won until 6/30/45. This required some code changes, and the end date change in the scenario file. I've tested an AI vs AI game and made sure it ended at 260 (passed that test). I'm now running a test to see if it will give the right victory levels with a Soviet win. This will take awhile as it can take a long time to get to 45. Gary says the change made should be safe and shouldn't screw up the normal scenario, but testing that would also take some time. Remember, every time a code change is made, there is a chance for a bug. Even the simplest of code changes can get screwed up and not be visible for some time. So at some point, probably in a week or so, assuming it passes the tests, we'll have the ability to release this alternate scenario. I don't know exactly when this will get out to the public, but it's a safe bet that sometime within the next month this will go out unless it turns out to fail in test, at which point we probably would have to give up on it for now.

As I've said previously, the ideal solution is to have campaign victory conditions in the editor (like the scenario victory conditions are). If they are in the editor, then any number of alternate scenarios can be created. We will look into trying to get that to happen in War in the West, and hopefully in the future in WitE 2.0.

For those of you that wished we had set the AV level to something lower, or the end date to May, I strongly suggest you use house rules to pick the victory conditions that you want to play with. Assuming this alternate scenario makes it out of test, I will be very interested to track how many games are played using this campaign versus the original campaign 41-45. This is something we can track on the server for those that play Multiplayer. We'll let you know when this scenario passes test, or if it fails. Thanks to all those who voted and shared their opinions. I hope the alternate scenario will make it out and that some of you will let us know through AAR's if it makes for a better gaming experience.


_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to gradenko_2000)
Post #: 44
RE: New Alt 1941-45 CG Scenario Request - 2/26/2012 6:08:55 AM   
Michael T


Posts: 2409
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline
Thank you very much Joel. I will be playing that 'alt' scenario in my next game for sure, no matter which side I play.





_____________________________

'Deus le Volt!'
------------------

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 45
RE: New Alt 1941-45 CG Scenario Request - 2/26/2012 6:16:23 AM   
Oloren

 

Posts: 48
Joined: 3/24/2007
Status: offline
Thank you so much! It's amazing how well supported the game is.

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 46
RE: New Alt 1941-45 CG Scenario Request - 2/26/2012 7:19:10 AM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 3157
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline
Thanks Joel! For my next GC, I will definitely use the modified campaign. And I intend to play the Soviets!

_____________________________

Read my AAR:s ye mighty, and despair!
41Ger
41Sov
41Ger
42Ger
42Sov

(in reply to Oloren)
Post #: 47
RE: New Alt 1941-45 CG Scenario Request - 2/26/2012 7:42:32 AM   
76mm


Posts: 2219
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Moscow
Status: online
Sounds great, I will also try this as Sovs. Thanks guys!

< Message edited by 76mm -- 2/26/2012 7:43:26 AM >

(in reply to Tarhunnas)
Post #: 48
RE: New Alt 1941-45 CG Scenario Request - 2/26/2012 7:56:15 AM   
AFV


Posts: 372
Joined: 12/24/2011
From: Dallas, Texas
Status: offline
Very impressive! Thank you for listening and working on this, this is excellent support. I will use this, regardless of side I play.

(in reply to Tarhunnas)
Post #: 49
RE: New Alt 1941-45 CG Scenario Request - 2/26/2012 8:59:19 AM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 3157
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

Sounds great, I will also try this as Sovs. Thanks guys!



Pity that you want to play the Sovs, I would have liked to go up against you. Or, we could both be Soviets, I'll be the trotskyites

_____________________________

Read my AAR:s ye mighty, and despair!
41Ger
41Sov
41Ger
42Ger
42Sov

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 50
RE: New Alt 1941-45 CG Scenario Request - 2/26/2012 1:10:23 PM   
pzgndr

 

Posts: 1698
Joined: 3/18/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Assuming this alternate scenario makes it out of test, I will be very interested to track how many games are played using this campaign versus the original campaign 41-45. This is something we can track on the server for those that play Multiplayer.


Yes indeed, this will be very interesting to track.

quote:

As I've said previously, the ideal solution is to have campaign victory conditions in the editor (like the scenario victory conditions are). If they are in the editor, then any number of alternate scenarios can be created. We will look into trying to get that to happen in War in the West, and hopefully in the future in WitE 2.0.


+1

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 51
RE: New Alt 1941-45 CG Scenario Request - 2/26/2012 4:44:01 PM   
Wild


Posts: 310
Joined: 12/10/2007
Status: offline
Thank you to 2by3 for finally listening to people who wish to give the axis at least a small chance to win the game.

I know the usual suspects are terrified of this because they think they will no longer find axis players to play the original scenario and be their whipping boy.This might actually force them to play the game instead of the game playing itself to the inevitable conclusion.

This still hasn't gone far enough as the axis still need to be able to build support units and both sides need to have control over which tanks go to which units, and i probably won't go back to playing until that happens, but it is a big step in the right direction.

Thank you 2by3 this can only be good for keeping a large player base. I will be keeping my eyes open for future developments.

(in reply to pzgndr)
Post #: 52
RE: New Alt 1941-45 CG Scenario Request - 2/26/2012 8:38:45 PM   
wadortch

 

Posts: 151
Joined: 3/19/2011
From: Darrington, WA, USA
Status: offline
Joel!
Thanks to you, Pavel (who crunched the code I expect) and to Gary for allocating the time to get this done.
I will play the scenario as soon as it is available.
Bravo.

_____________________________

Walt

(in reply to Wild)
Post #: 53
RE: New Alt 1941-45 CG Scenario Request - 3/7/2012 5:27:48 PM   
wadortch

 

Posts: 151
Joined: 3/19/2011
From: Darrington, WA, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Ok, here's what we've done based on what we felt we could do quickly and relatively safely, while also trying to please the most people based on the polls (and realize that the 100 or so people that answered the polls are a tiny sample size of WitE players, but we do listen to the opinions of the serious players).

We've created an alternate campaign 41-45 scenario that ends at the start of turn 212 (first turn of July). In this scenario, the German auto victory is set to 260 (remember, Leningrad/Moscow/Stalingrad is about 245, so this requires a bit more than just those cities). The Soviet Major Victory now ends 3/31/45, while a Soviet Minor can be won until 6/30/45. This required some code changes, and the end date change in the scenario file. I've tested an AI vs AI game and made sure it ended at 260 (passed that test). I'm now running a test to see if it will give the right victory levels with a Soviet win. This will take awhile as it can take a long time to get to 45. Gary says the change made should be safe and shouldn't screw up the normal scenario, but testing that would also take some time. Remember, every time a code change is made, there is a chance for a bug. Even the simplest of code changes can get screwed up and not be visible for some time. So at some point, probably in a week or so, assuming it passes the tests, we'll have the ability to release this alternate scenario. I don't know exactly when this will get out to the public, but it's a safe bet that sometime within the next month this will go out unless it turns out to fail in test, at which point we probably would have to give up on it for now.

As I've said previously, the ideal solution is to have campaign victory conditions in the editor (like the scenario victory conditions are). If they are in the editor, then any number of alternate scenarios can be created. We will look into trying to get that to happen in War in the West, and hopefully in the future in WitE 2.0.

For those of you that wished we had set the AV level to something lower, or the end date to May, I strongly suggest you use house rules to pick the victory conditions that you want to play with. Assuming this alternate scenario makes it out of test, I will be very interested to track how many games are played using this campaign versus the original campaign 41-45. This is something we can track on the server for those that play Multiplayer. We'll let you know when this scenario passes test, or if it fails. Thanks to all those who voted and shared their opinions. I hope the alternate scenario will make it out and that some of you will let us know through AAR's if it makes for a better gaming experience.


Hello Joel
Just wondering if this scenario passed the test you mention here and if we might be seeing it soon?


_____________________________

Walt

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 54
RE: New Alt 1941-45 CG Scenario Request - 3/7/2012 5:44:38 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 21928
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: online
Yes it passed most tests, then one AI vs AI test led to a crash (I had been seriously abusing the help levels to get odd situations). Gary's fixed it, but we haven't released a new version to test yet. I'm not sure when the next version will go to test, and when it will come out, but it does look like we are ready to put out an alternate scenario that ends on 212 (first July turn) with slightly adjusted victory conditions, and any campaign set to end on turn 212 will use these adjusted victory conditions:

260 Axis AV
Soviet Major Victory (Germany surrenders between 1/1/45 and 3/31/45)
Soviet Minor Victory (German surrenders between 4/1/45 and 6/30/45)
Draw if no surrender by 6/30/45

I can't give you an exact ETA yet on when the scenario will appear but sometime in the next several weeks/month would be my estimate.


_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to wadortch)
Post #: 55
RE: New Alt 1941-45 CG Scenario Request - 3/7/2012 7:44:13 PM   
wadortch

 

Posts: 151
Joined: 3/19/2011
From: Darrington, WA, USA
Status: offline
Thanks for the update. Good to read it is still in the works!

_____________________________

Walt

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 56
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> RE: New Alt 1941-45 CG Scenario Request Page: <<   < prev  1 [2]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.121