Matrix Games Forums

Buzz Aldrins Space Program Manager is now available!Space Program Manager gets mini-site and Twitch SessionBuzz Aldrin: Ask Me Anything (AMA) on redditDeal of the week Fantasy Kommander: Eukarion WarsSpace Program Manager Launch Contest Announced!Battle Academy 2 is out now on iPad!A closer look at rockets in Space Program ManagerDeal of the Week - Pride of NationsA new update for Piercing Fortress EuropaNew screenshots for War in the West!
Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Japanese Tsukushi-class Survey Ship

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Scenario Design and Modding >> Japanese Tsukushi-class Survey Ship Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Japanese Tsukushi-class Survey Ship - 2/23/2012 3:10:53 PM   
FDRLincoln


Posts: 742
Joined: 11/22/2004
From: Lawrence, KS
Status: offline
Has anyone added this ship to their mod, or is it in the standard game and I just don't see it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsukushi_class_survey_ship

This is an historical ship that could be a nice little escort/scout....carried a floatplane, some armanent, not bad speed at 21 knts.

_____________________________

Fear God and Dread Nought
Post #: 1
RE: Japanese Tsukushi-class Survey Ship - 2/23/2012 3:54:50 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41361
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
I seem to recall having put it into my stock mod oooooodles of years ago. She's a good little tub, which could conceivably have been turned into an ASW escort.

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to FDRLincoln)
Post #: 2
RE: Japanese Tsukushi-class Survey Ship - 2/23/2012 3:57:06 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7168
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline
I've actually added it into the DB and made an upgrade for it post the historical sinking date.

IIRC, I removed the aft 120mm gun and added a DC rack or two for the upgrade. I'd have to look it back up in my editor to remember exactly what I did to it. I do know I tried to keep it some what realistic/believable.

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to FDRLincoln)
Post #: 3
RE: Japanese Tsukushi-class Survey Ship - 2/23/2012 4:27:02 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41361
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
She was originally left out because there was no way to show her role correctly. I could conceivably see her coming in as an ASW escort somewhat later in the game, sans her airplane (which was not for offensive patrolling anyway).

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 4
RE: Japanese Tsukushi-class Survey Ship - 2/23/2012 4:31:08 PM   
FDRLincoln


Posts: 742
Joined: 11/22/2004
From: Lawrence, KS
Status: offline
Yeah it seems that if she had survived long enough, she could have made a decent ASW platform....not too slow, long range. I will put her in my personal mod

_____________________________

Fear God and Dread Nought

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 5
RE: Japanese Tsukushi-class Survey Ship - 2/23/2012 4:32:33 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41361
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
Take the aircraft facilities off and replace with a couple of DC throwers. She had no catapult, so would have been less than useful with a plane in an ASW convoy escort role.

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to FDRLincoln)
Post #: 6
RE: Japanese Tsukushi-class Survey Ship - 2/23/2012 5:12:52 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7168
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Take the aircraft facilities off and replace with a couple of DC throwers. She had no catapult, so would have been less than useful with a plane in an ASW convoy escort role.


So trade the A/C facilities for DC throwers. Would you do like I did and also remove the aft 120mm for DC racks or additional throwers?

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 7
RE: Japanese Tsukushi-class Survey Ship - 2/23/2012 5:23:06 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41361
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
Probably not. I can see two DCT's and two DCR's, along with the original 12cm weapons fit.

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 8
RE: Japanese Tsukushi-class Survey Ship - 2/23/2012 6:37:47 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7168
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline
Here is my take on it. Comments welcome.






PS, looks like I messed up my MVR rating, seems a bit high. Probably typo'ed it.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Shark7 -- 2/23/2012 6:39:16 PM >


_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 9
RE: Japanese Tsukushi-class Survey Ship - 2/23/2012 6:44:34 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41361
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
Are you sure about the range? I read 8K NM at 16 knots, but thought it a bit high. Also, the displacement is too high; 1575 is full displacement, and you go into dock at normal displacement (in this case ~1400 tons). Docking calculations are what tonnage is used for.

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 10
RE: Japanese Tsukushi-class Survey Ship - 2/23/2012 7:29:36 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7168
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline
Well the info did come from Wikipedia...its great for some things, but always prone to innacuracies.

I'm thinking maybe 3k-4.5k range is more appropriate?

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 11
RE: Japanese Tsukushi-class Survey Ship - 2/23/2012 7:49:54 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41361
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
I don't know. She was built to have a very economical power plant, and had three screws (rare for a ship this small) to aid in low-speed cruising. On the other hand, 8000 miles at 16 knots on 266 tons of diesel... Seems wrong somehow. Split the difference? 5K at 14 knots with 20 knots max speed.

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 12
RE: Japanese Tsukushi-class Survey Ship - 2/24/2012 12:08:52 AM   
Dili

 

Posts: 2948
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline
Compare with Kaibokan ranges/fuel

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 13
RE: Japanese Tsukushi-class Survey Ship - 2/24/2012 12:27:03 AM   
Terminus


Posts: 41361
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
Solid point. She WAS basically one, after all. Just use the diesel-powered Kaibokans as reference.

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Dili)
Post #: 14
RE: Japanese Tsukushi-class Survey Ship - 2/24/2012 2:15:24 AM   
Shark7


Posts: 7168
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline
Well Kaikoban Type C is 6500 nm range at 15 knts on 200 fuel. Shimushu, which is of the same time period is 6000 nm on 150 tons of fuel at 16 knts by some online sources and in the editor as the team put it in, 8000 nm on 300 tons of fuel.

The difference was that Tsukushi was designed to 'cruise' on one shaft at 2.2 knts in order to actually carry out here survey functions.

From the sounds of it, 6500 to 8000nm on 250 tons of fuel at 15-16 knts is not all that unreasonable. Unless someone can come up with a more accurate set of stats?

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 15
RE: Japanese Tsukushi-class Survey Ship - 2/24/2012 10:21:50 AM   
LargeSlowTarget


Posts: 2820
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: The deepest, darkest pit of hell
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

She was originally left out because there was no way to show her role correctly.


This is one of the aspects which (sadly but understandably) has not been modelled in AE (or any other game of that kind). Many areas of the AE map were poorly charted, which affected operations. The lack of naval support and seaborne resupply during the Buna campaign for fear of risking ships in reef-infested and little-known waters comes to mind. It would be a nice addition to enforce some caution when planning bomardments and invasions and may slow-down operations a bit.

I was briefly toying with the idea to create a "reefs" mine device and poorly charted areas in form of minefields, with survey vessels modelled as MSW classes sweeping the minefields corresponding to surveying and charting. But then I figured this would not work in face of "minefield decay", the fact that any ship capable of minesweeping could do the "surveying", that small shallow-draft vessels like barges which would be able to operate in reef-infested areas would nevertheless be affected by those "reef mines", and the inability to modd proper in-game messages like "ship xy struck reef" and "charted channel through reef" instead of "hit mine" and "cleared path".


_____________________________

Carpe Cerevisiam



WitP AAR "Six Years of War"

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 16
RE: Japanese Tsukushi-class Survey Ship - 2/24/2012 10:22:48 PM   
Dili

 

Posts: 2948
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline
Note also this survey ship is a bit bigger 79x10.6x3.65 vs 77x9.1x3.05 so that should penalize its range. 1422t vs 955t http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikura_class_escort_ship for example.

Shark7 Note that type C have a much less powerful engine and also is tinier at 757t displacement.
From the data you posted i would doubt the values for Shimushu vs Type C. Type C should be more economical to operate of the two. The game data seems to be more logical. Shimishu was bigger ship. At 8000nm/300t makes 26.6nm/t while Type C at 6500nm/200t makes a 32.5nm/t . 6000nm/150 would make a way out of line at 40nm/t for Shimishu. For the survey ship i would put the consumption maybe at in low 20nm/t. More data about other ships will be helpful too. At 255t and say 23nm/t makes 5610nm.


(in reply to LargeSlowTarget)
Post #: 17
RE: Japanese Tsukushi-class Survey Ship - 2/25/2012 2:08:39 AM   
Shark7


Posts: 7168
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline
Aren't SWAG fun?

OK, I'll go with a close to 23nm/t by simply making it 550nm at 255 tons. Seems best at this point.

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to Dili)
Post #: 18
RE: Japanese Tsukushi-class Survey Ship - 2/25/2012 6:33:08 PM   
Dili

 

Posts: 2948
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline
Scientific Wild Ass Guess? took me a while to found out

Btw i am sure a look at nm/t in ships and km/kg ranges of some airplanes will show some crazy impossible things. One of worse are the submarines and their capability to put fuel in ballast tanks making almost impossible to know how much fuel they really have to go range xxxxxx.

And there is also the fuel consumption while in harbor reducing the range maybe 5% ...

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 19
RE: Japanese Tsukushi-class Survey Ship - 2/27/2012 12:33:40 AM   
Don Bowen


Posts: 8148
Joined: 7/13/2000
From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Status: offline

So, anyone got any artwork.

(in reply to Dili)
Post #: 20
RE: Japanese Tsukushi-class Survey Ship - 2/27/2012 1:38:06 AM   
Gary Childress


Posts: 5697
Joined: 7/17/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


So, anyone got any artwork.


I gots some...



Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Favorite/Awesome games from Matrix

War in the Pacific/AE
Panzer Corps
Commander Europe at War
John Tiller's Campaign Series
The Close Combat Series (all versions)

(in reply to Don Bowen)
Post #: 21
RE: Japanese Tsukushi-class Survey Ship - 2/27/2012 1:39:27 AM   
Gary Childress


Posts: 5697
Joined: 7/17/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
Here's the preview.




Based on this line drawing...



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Gary Childress -- 2/27/2012 1:41:34 AM >


_____________________________

Favorite/Awesome games from Matrix

War in the Pacific/AE
Panzer Corps
Commander Europe at War
John Tiller's Campaign Series
The Close Combat Series (all versions)

(in reply to Gary Childress)
Post #: 22
RE: Japanese Tsukushi-class Survey Ship - 2/27/2012 1:43:58 AM   
Don Bowen


Posts: 8148
Joined: 7/13/2000
From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Status: offline

Thanks.

Ya got any other ship art I wish I had?

(in reply to Gary Childress)
Post #: 23
RE: Japanese Tsukushi-class Survey Ship - 2/27/2012 2:07:53 AM   
oldman45


Posts: 2266
Joined: 5/1/2005
From: Jacksonville Fl
Status: offline
Thats a loaded question Don.

_____________________________


(in reply to Don Bowen)
Post #: 24
RE: Japanese Tsukushi-class Survey Ship - 2/27/2012 2:11:29 AM   
Don Bowen


Posts: 8148
Joined: 7/13/2000
From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Status: offline

Net Tenders?

Australian Kookaburra, British "Bar" series, US Aloe and Bitterbush...

(in reply to oldman45)
Post #: 25
RE: Japanese Tsukushi-class Survey Ship - 2/27/2012 2:55:36 AM   
Gary Childress


Posts: 5697
Joined: 7/17/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


Net Tenders?

Australian Kookaburra, British "Bar" series, US Aloe and Bitterbush...


Got any line drawings? Also ship length OA would help.

_____________________________

Favorite/Awesome games from Matrix

War in the Pacific/AE
Panzer Corps
Commander Europe at War
John Tiller's Campaign Series
The Close Combat Series (all versions)

(in reply to Don Bowen)
Post #: 26
RE: Japanese Tsukushi-class Survey Ship - 2/27/2012 2:12:34 PM   
Don Bowen


Posts: 8148
Joined: 7/13/2000
From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Status: offline

Here's a start. I'll dig for more.

Thank You.






Attachment (1)

(in reply to Gary Childress)
Post #: 27
RE: Japanese Tsukushi-class Survey Ship - 2/27/2012 2:17:28 PM   
Gary Childress


Posts: 5697
Joined: 7/17/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
I'm off to work in a few. I'll try to get some done tonight if I can swing it. I'm also a little behind on some online classes I'm taking...


quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


Here's a start. I'll dig for more.

Thank You.






< Message edited by Gary Childress -- 2/27/2012 2:18:45 PM >


_____________________________

Favorite/Awesome games from Matrix

War in the Pacific/AE
Panzer Corps
Commander Europe at War
John Tiller's Campaign Series
The Close Combat Series (all versions)

(in reply to Don Bowen)
Post #: 28
RE: Japanese Tsukushi-class Survey Ship - 2/27/2012 2:21:38 PM   
Don Bowen


Posts: 8148
Joined: 7/13/2000
From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Status: offline

I remeber work. Got in the way of a lot of fun, as I recall.

Anyway, I appreciate it. Here's the Bar class. I'll see if I can find a better picture.






Attachment (1)

(in reply to Gary Childress)
Post #: 29
RE: Japanese Tsukushi-class Survey Ship - 2/27/2012 2:25:30 PM   
Don Bowen


Posts: 8148
Joined: 7/13/2000
From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Status: offline

And Kookaburra...






Attachment (1)

(in reply to Don Bowen)
Post #: 30
Page:   [1] 2   next >   >>
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Scenario Design and Modding >> Japanese Tsukushi-class Survey Ship Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.111