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RE: PCO Add Ons

 
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RE: PCO Add Ons - 4/28/2012 6:54:20 PM   
Ratzki

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

Simple enough to do. Fill out the unit rosters for the leaders and then give them command radius.

A company commander can only affect his company. If he's killed he's replaced by one of the officers from the same company and that officer gets a replacement leader from a random replacement pool.



How would you fill them out? Are we talking just more step losses, or for the leaders would it be more information on the skills ect. that the leader and each of his subordinates would have?

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 31
RE: PCO Add Ons - 4/29/2012 10:42:26 AM   
Panzerbri


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I've just had a look at Operation Star, on You Tube. The graphics on that look good, so can the next Panzer Command game have graphics like that ?

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Post #: 32
RE: PCO Add Ons - 4/29/2012 9:34:06 PM   
Mad Russian


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ratzki


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

Simple enough to do. Fill out the unit rosters for the leaders and then give them command radius.

A company commander can only affect his company. If he's killed he's replaced by one of the officers from the same company and that officer gets a replacement leader from a random replacement pool.



How would you fill them out? Are we talking just more step losses, or for the leaders would it be more information on the skills ect. that the leader and each of his subordinates would have?



Tactical games should have leaders. I would add the leaders to the game. Give them individual ratings. Fill out the Command Roster with them and add them to the game.

But that's not my call.

Good Hunting.

MR

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Ratzki)
Post #: 33
RE: PCO Add Ons - 5/1/2012 3:16:40 AM   
Ratzki

 

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Sounds like a plan MR, can't you use some of your pull to get that done? I like the idea of keeping things abstract somewhat, but leaders would help as well as sqauds showing manpower on screen. No need to do one to one as far as gameplay goes, but it would be great to see squads with the correct number of soldiers on screen and as they take step losses to represent them with subtracting from the squads on screen men.

PanzerBri, I do not know how much computing power it would take to come up with graphics like those you mentioned. It would be pretty, that's for sure.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 34
RE: PCO Add Ons - 5/1/2012 6:41:15 PM   
Panzerbri


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Thanks for that Ratzki. I think most people have good machines these days. If the next game, in the PC series worked my machine too much. I would get an upgrade, that's how much I like these games.

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Post #: 35
RE: PCO Add Ons - 5/2/2012 5:33:27 PM   
Ratzki

 

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What makes PC great is the armour combat. Why?... because it is all fleshed out and therefore it feels right. It is able to draw you in to the action, that immersion that was mentioned earlier is present. Maybe the infantry combat model is good already, but it seems to stumble a bit when transferring the action that is happening behind the scene to the images that we see on the screen. I feel that it is a lack of information made ready to the player during combat is what prevents me from this immersion during infantry combat. To go along with what MR has said, leaders and squads should be fleshed out, we as the players should be able to tell what is going on during combat without having to click on units and take us out of the illusion of being there.

(in reply to Panzerbri)
Post #: 36
RE: PCO Add Ons - 5/3/2012 4:35:05 PM   
Mad Russian


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ratzki

Sounds like a plan MR, can't you use some of your pull to get that done?


You can take my pull and $5 and get a cup of coffee anywhere in town.

The ones you want to talk to are Rick and Erik. They are the decision makers on this game series.


Good Hunting.

MR

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Ratzki)
Post #: 37
RE: PCO Add Ons - 5/3/2012 9:45:33 PM   
Rick

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ratzki

Sounds like a plan MR, can't you use some of your pull to get that done?


You can take my pull and $5 and get a cup of coffee anywhere in town.

The ones you want to talk to are Rick and Erik. They are the decision makers on this game series.


Good Hunting.

MR



MR understates his influence -- this team functions in an interesting combination of consensus and independent action. which I suppose is one reason it takes a while for things to move forward.

thanks
rick

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 38
RE: PCO Add Ons - 5/4/2012 7:41:37 PM   
Ratzki

 

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So if we could get the squads fleshed out and improve the command structure for the parts of the leaders the infantry combat would be better. How does everyone feel about the actual results that the game produces when the infantry does do battle?

(in reply to Rick)
Post #: 39
RE: PCO Add Ons - 5/4/2012 7:58:40 PM   
Mobius


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There's pretty much a problem with HQ team units in battle. As they are smaller they can be identified by the opponent and targeted first. Or they have to be made unrealistically large so as to look like a normal squad.

(in reply to Ratzki)
Post #: 40
RE: PCO Add Ons - 5/4/2012 9:11:46 PM   
Mad Russian


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Hmmm...the exact same problems HQ units have in real life.

Good Hunting.

MR

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mobius)
Post #: 41
RE: PCO Add Ons - 5/4/2012 10:44:06 PM   
Rick

 

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Yes, I think this could be a problem. Maybe we need to make them part of a regular unit, but add the ability to transfer them to another unit.

Or maybe an addition layer of FOW so that the leader units appeared to be "squad sized" until some level of critical observation occurred?

Rick

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 42
RE: PCO Add Ons - 5/4/2012 10:44:40 PM   
Rick

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ratzki

So if we could get the squads fleshed out and improve the command structure for the parts of the leaders the infantry combat would be better. How does everyone feel about the actual results that the game produces when the infantry does do battle?


I'm interested in hearing the response to this.

thanks
rick

(in reply to Ratzki)
Post #: 43
RE: PCO Add Ons - 5/5/2012 3:46:14 AM   
Ratzki

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rick


Yes, I think this could be a problem. Maybe we need to make them part of a regular unit, but add the ability to transfer them to another unit.

Or maybe an addition layer of FOW so that the leader units appeared to be "squad sized" until some level of critical observation occurred?

Rick


Having the HQ units being singled out and shot at is fine, you could FOW all units a little more. I think that when the lead starts flying one would be a whole lot less able to ID other units. Other then maybe an estimate as to the number of men in a squad, but other then this and a little more knowledge as to what type of gun is firing back, I think that you would just start shooting at whoever is shooting at you. With just the number of men showing, it would not take too long and after some losses there would really be no way to determine the makeup of any squad or HQ unit or ID them at all.
You could also give the HQ's a better chance of hiding and causing the enemy to lose contact.
Anyhow, I think that if used properly, the enemy will have enough to worry about with your attacking squads to not take too much time singling out the HQ's for too many turns.
Didi not the forward Platoons and Companies take terrible losses in men and leaders during combat?

(in reply to Rick)
Post #: 44
RE: PCO Add Ons - 5/5/2012 5:23:17 AM   
Mad Russian


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ratzki


Did not the forward Platoons and Companies take terrible losses in men and leaders during combat?


Yes, and they still do today.

Good Hunting.

MR


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Ratzki)
Post #: 45
RE: PCO Add Ons - 5/5/2012 3:12:04 PM   
Mobius


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The only way to do it is to make the AI take over targeting so even if the player knows which is the HQ section he can't do anything about it. So it becomes like watching a movie of a game rather than playing it.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 46
RE: PCO Add Ons - 5/5/2012 7:14:22 PM   
Mad Russian


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Or you could have it where the leadership values affect the units within his command radius with his command attributes. Like in actual combat situations. A company commander doesn't set every gun to fire. He adds his knowledge to the events. If you choose a squad, gun or vehicle to fire and a leader is with them then they get his added effects. If they are having their morale tested he can effect that.

There are DOZENS of wargames that have leadership modifiers applied that aren't just sit back and watch the movie reels.

What we are talking about here that is different from most is that the leader would only affect those under his command. The 1st Platoon Leader wouldn't affect the units of 2nd Platoon even if he was standing right next to them. Adding the chain of command would take a bit of coding but is far from impossible and would give an added layer of immersion.

At least that's my take on it.

Good Hunting.

MR

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mobius)
Post #: 47
RE: PCO Add Ons - 5/5/2012 7:49:03 PM   
Ratzki

 

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So the leader would only be able to influence those under his command. How about only being able to direct fire on those units that the HQ has LOS to. That way if the player wants to expose the HQ squad more for a better chance at directing fire and modifying effects, it is the player's choice to do so and will pay the possible consequences in the enemy being able to target the HQ squad with more units.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 48
RE: PCO Add Ons - 5/5/2012 7:59:34 PM   
Mobius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian
What we are talking about here that is different from most is that the leader would only affect those under his command. The 1st Platoon Leader wouldn't affect the units of 2nd Platoon even if he was standing right next to them. Adding the chain of command would take a bit of coding but is far from impossible and would give an added layer of immersion.

At least that's my take on it.
We have the rubber bands where the colors show some kind of affect. On the down side if the leader stays only with one squad like it is now if a different squad routs there is no way for the leader can run back and cheer lead it back to health.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 49
RE: PCO Add Ons - 5/5/2012 9:26:47 PM   
Mad Russian


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What you have now is a leader that is assigned to a squad. Not his entire platoon. He is with one squad and one squad only. You as the gamer do not determine where he is. If those men of his platoon are close enough he affects their actions. But if you want to move him you have to move the entire squad he's with. Which is slower than a command group of one or two men moving. And takes longer to activate a squad than it should a command group.

You also only have platoon leaders in the game. There are no steps above him. We have battalion sized fights and even some regimental sized fights. Those leaders aren't in the game at all.

Good Hunting.

MR



_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mobius)
Post #: 50
RE: PCO Add Ons - 5/7/2012 1:33:01 AM   
Ratzki

 

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Mobius and MR, you guys hit the nail on the head. A separate Command Squad for a platoon is needed, as well as some to represent Battalions ect.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 51
RE: PCO Add Ons - 5/7/2012 3:44:27 AM   
Mobius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ratzki
Mobius and MR, you guys hit the nail on the head. A separate Command Squad for a platoon is needed, as well as some to represent Battalions ect.
I don't see what a separate command squad would do for a battalion during the battle.

(in reply to Ratzki)
Post #: 52
RE: PCO Add Ons - 5/8/2012 8:55:53 PM   
Ratzki

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mobius

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ratzki
Mobius and MR, you guys hit the nail on the head. A separate Command Squad for a platoon is needed, as well as some to represent Battalions ect.
I don't see what a separate command squad would do for a battalion during the battle.

For a start, a Battalion HQ would provide command control over sections and platoons that are not normally in a Company but are under the Battalion HQ's control. An example would be an early Russian Rifle Battalion has a two gun AT Platoon and six 82mm Mortars that are under the Battalion HQ's control to be assigned somewhere or kept under his command.
Plus, as some have been stating, it would be an idea to build a functioning Chain of Command with orders suited to each level.

(in reply to Mobius)
Post #: 53
RE: PCO Add Ons - 5/9/2012 1:36:04 AM   
Mad Russian


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As in real life, the battalion command section would add it's support to company level units. So if there was a company commander in the game, which there isn't it would add his leadership to that company unit. Just as the company commander would add his leadership to those platoons under him.

Why is there a chain of command in the military? For many of the reasons they are there in real life they could be in the game.

1) Artillery fire direction, actual artillery direction and not just every squad leader, or single sniper on the entire map being equipped with a radio as the game now has it.

2) Morale support in the event of units taking fire. For the leader if far enough away, and for the unit they are stacked with directly.

3) Reduction in order delays. It takes no time at all for a platoon leader to be activated to move/fire if the battalion commander is standing right next to him. Much less time than if the battalion commander has to issue those orders to a company commander, who in turn has to issue them to the platoon commander.

Even Balck, Rommel and Guderian, to name a few, were in the location of the heaviest fighting so that they could personally influence the outcome.

4) Tactical prowess. These guys have "been there, done that". They are the ones who have a grasp of the tactics and how to apply them. They can and do make a difference by being in the thick of the fighting.

As has been mentioned, that's the exact reason so many junior officers and NCO's become casualties. They are the ones that are in the thick of the fighting and they are some of the ones that become casualties.

Good Hunting.

MR

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 5/9/2012 1:39:36 AM >


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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Post #: 54
RE: PCO Add Ons - 5/13/2012 4:10:35 AM   
Ratzki

 

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So would it be enough to just have the various leaders modify different events in the game like morale? Or would some leader specific "orders" be needed as well?
Also, how do you feel about the results with infantry combat the way that it is now?

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 55
RE: PCO Add Ons - 12/10/2012 5:56:03 PM   
Panzerbri


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Any news for the troops ?

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Post #: 56
RE: PCO Add Ons - 12/17/2012 7:41:22 AM   
Rick

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Panzerbri

Any news for the troops ?


things have been a bit busy with several members of the team, so there hasn't been much additional work done.

Thanks
rick

(in reply to Panzerbri)
Post #: 57
RE: PCO Add Ons - 12/20/2012 7:20:31 PM   
Yoozername

 

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I would rather see a wargame model Command Posts instead of having to model every 'Butter-Bar' in the field. For most company sized infantry units, a single command post would suffice. It could be tied into the abstracted ammunition and morale effects. Having a Command Post move onto an objective could be factored into more 'victory points'.

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Post #: 58
RE: PCO Add Ons - 12/20/2012 8:33:46 PM   
Mobius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yoozername
Having a Command Post move onto an objective could be factored into more 'victory points'.
Like a Brain-Bug Mr. Rico?

I'd separate that into a immovable re-supply point and a staff car that can go claim flags for more points.

< Message edited by Mobius -- 12/21/2012 3:04:05 PM >

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Post #: 59
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