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Taking it on the chin - the sequel - vicberg(GER) vs Cheerfully Insane (SOV)

 
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Taking it on the chin - the sequel - vicberg(GER) vs Ch... - 2/15/2012 4:56:05 AM   
vicberg

 

Posts: 568
Joined: 4/19/2008
Status: offline 		Turn 13

I'm starting this AAR, again, on Turn 13. Didn't want to waste time if I disastered everything up to this point. Right now, things are OK.

Cheerfullyinsane and I restarted the game. Way too many major mistakes in the beginning.

The panzer groups need rest and refit, but otherwise, I've been able to gain ground. Cheerfullyinsane does a defense in depth and has kept his lines in good order, so any thrust that I made was met with an orderly withdrawl. The net result is that I haven't had to do much combat up to now. On my next turn, I'll post the OOB and ask ppl if I'm in good shape there or not.

In the north, Leningrad is about to fall. I've pulled the 4th PZG off line for refit. They are just south of this picture. I'm not sure if they will be needed or not. The troops facing Leningrad are getting pretty tired, but morale is quite high.






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RE: Taking it on the chin - the sequel - vicberg(GER) v... - 2/15/2012 4:59:03 AM   
vicberg

 

Posts: 568
Joined: 4/19/2008
Status: offline 		The good news. I finally was able to punch through. I've realized that to get a breakthrough requires concentration of infantry corps to punch the initial hole. I put a couple infantry corps on HQ buildup as well as Panzer Group 3 and I'm drinking beer in the Kremlin. This is the first real opportunity that Cheerfully insane has given me so far. I was lucky.




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RE: Taking it on the chin - the sequel - vicberg(GER) v... - 2/15/2012 5:01:04 AM   
vicberg

 

Posts: 568
Joined: 4/19/2008
Status: offline 		This is the rest of AGC and AGS.





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< Message edited by vicberg -- 2/15/2012 5:02:39 AM >

(in reply to vicberg)
Post #: 3
RE: Taking it on the chin - the sequel - vicberg(GER) v... - 2/15/2012 2:00:40 PM   
Seminole


Posts: 491
Joined: 7/28/2011
Status: offline 		Please toggle enemy hexes (hotkey: e) so we can see what you've taken.
thanks.

Was Moscow empty?

(in reply to vicberg)
Post #: 4
RE: Taking it on the chin - the sequel - vicberg(GER) v... - 2/15/2012 3:50:59 PM   
vicberg

 

Posts: 568
Joined: 4/19/2008
Status: offline 		Yes, Moscow was empty. I don't blame him at all. Up until now, I've haven't been able to punch a hole for the armor, anywhere. I push and may get a hex or two behind his lines, but that's it. He then retreats his lines a few hexes , rinse, repeat. Very effective strategy. He's not running away, while maintaining his defenses accross the entire front. There's been 3 lines of defense, everywhere, running angular with very few salient opportunities, entrenched and with lots of reserves. Setting the two infanty corps and PZG3 to HQ buildup and consolidating them around the breakout area made all the difference.

Lesson learned for the future.

< Message edited by vicberg -- 2/15/2012 3:51:22 PM >

(in reply to Seminole)
Post #: 5
RE: Taking it on the chin - the sequel - vicberg(GER) v... - 2/15/2012 3:54:39 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 5745
Joined: 9/9/2009
Status: online 		Sigh. Rookie mistake. (Even Q-ball has made it!)

Any city within a dozen or so hexes of the front line should be garrisoned, period. I put guys into Moscow as early as turn four as a matter of fact, just to get them digging ASAP.



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(in reply to vicberg)
Post #: 6
RE: Taking it on the chin - the sequel - vicberg(GER) v... - 2/15/2012 4:36:37 PM   
Seminole


Posts: 491
Joined: 7/28/2011
Status: offline
quote:

Any city within a dozen or so hexes of the front line should be garrisoned, period. I put guys into Moscow as early as turn four as a matter of fact, just to get them digging ASAP.


As early as possible I start putting units in every city I think can be reached by Nov '41.
Hopefully the SU is sending units straight from recruitment to the front lines. Give them a few turns as garrison in the back country to get their bearings, then rotate them forward and replace with new recruits.

No cities west of Moscow should be empty. He failed to garrison essentially level 6 and 8 forts in his capital. He let you parade through. Wonder how many factories he lost, nevermind manpower.

Too much focus on straight, pretty lines, and not enough focus on the forts that litter the map from word go. I don't worry about forming a line until the rains come. Before then, I'm buying time, and making the Germans pay as much MP as I reasonably can (staying out of the open save for behind rivers) for every inch they want eastward.

(in reply to Flaviusx)
Post #: 7
RE: Taking it on the chin - the sequel - vicberg(GER) v... - 3/23/2012 2:20:57 AM   
vicberg

 

Posts: 568
Joined: 4/19/2008
Status: offline 		It's time to update the AAR and acknowledge my shame.

How many German Generals does it take to make a total mess of a war? Answer: one. The guy holding the mouse.

After taking Moscow, I was so worried about Soviet troops ripping through my lines in winter, I gave it up (and it's 3 hexes of complete protection) without a fight.

I also didn't know that the Germans can conduct offensive during snow. I know now.

I had no idea about first year blizzard rules and a perceived Soviet onslaught, that I had ALL my troops in unprotected double lines, including my Panzers. After 500k of causalties the first turn of blizzard, I thought "I think I'm doing something wrong." Sure enough, I was. It took turns upon turns to sort the mess out.

But the biggest mistake of all was not pushing to close down the Crimea. I didn't think the Sovs could launch a meaningful offensive accross swamps and a major river, so that area was lightly held at best. Sure enough he pushed accross with TONS of troops and pushed me very far back.

So this is the OOB as of mid-summer, 1942. One word, OUCH.






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< Message edited by vicberg -- 3/23/2012 2:48:01 AM >

(in reply to Seminole)
Post #: 8
RE: Taking it on the chin - the sequel - vicberg(GER) v... - 3/23/2012 2:29:58 AM   
vicberg

 

Posts: 568
Joined: 4/19/2008
Status: offline 		After realizing all these mistakes, I did my best to shorten lines, pull out corps or armies for refit and prep for the summer season. Unfortunately the damage was already done. What I was up against was a solid soviet front line and 2 -3 lines of Soviets in reserve mode behind the lines.

If I had 2 stacks of 6 divisions attacking one stack, almost ALWAYS 2-3 more soviet divisions would join the battle. If I won the battle, which was about 50 percent of the time, those reserves hardly ever routed. It got so difficult to make headway, I moved armor behind my lines in offensive reserve mode to hopefully get 2 or 3 divisions of my own to join the battle. There were so many soviet units behind the lines, there was no way to "attack out" the reserves. They were everywhere. For anyone who thinks that reserve mode isn't worth it or Soviet Leadership can't handle them, I have to strongly disagree.

Now, my units were severly depleted from the blizzard. Facing a defense in depth in 41, I didn't chip away and go for small pockets, but tried to fist through the entire line, which was met by a steady Soviet withdrawl in good order, and I didn't threaten enough vital cities to force a real fight. Bottom line is that I didn't do enough damage in 41 during clear or snow. So that worked against me as well.

Here's the north.

Remember, I had Moscow and all those nice level 4 towns around it. Gave it up without a fight. If I take Moscow again in 41 in any other game, I'm not leaving it without a fight.




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< Message edited by vicberg -- 3/23/2012 2:48:26 AM >

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RE: Taking it on the chin - the sequel - vicberg(GER) v... - 3/23/2012 2:31:57 AM   
vicberg

 

Posts: 568
Joined: 4/19/2008
Status: offline 		Here's the Center. Tried to armor fist a pincher movements. After multiple multiple turns of clear weather, this was all I could achieve.




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RE: Taking it on the chin - the sequel - vicberg(GER) v... - 3/23/2012 2:35:08 AM   
vicberg

 

Posts: 568
Joined: 4/19/2008
Status: offline 		And finally the death knell. I was so unprepared for a Crimea counter attack that I had NO forts, so the forces I threw in front of him were in turn depleted more by the blizzard than by his troops. The soviet offensive here stretched my lines even thinner, making it very difficult to effectively concentrate infantry to support any offensive of mine.




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RE: Taking it on the chin - the sequel - vicberg(GER) v... - 3/23/2012 2:43:49 AM   
vicberg

 

Posts: 568
Joined: 4/19/2008
Status: offline 		So, I gave cheerfully (anything but) insane the option to continue and have fun on his part. But we elected instead to do Barbarossa switching sides. That will be interesting.

Things I've learned.

Against defense in depth, concentrate infantry, go for small pockets, every turn pocket some amount of soviet troops
Never walk away from Moscow
Forts are nice against blizzards
Forts on railways are even nicer against blizzards as the units can refit quickly
Attack in snow
Refit in mud
Pull corps and/or armies off the line whenever possible for refit or redeployment
Take the crimea
Reserve mode is TOUGH to make progress against. Offensive reserve uses less MPs for armor in reserve status than a deliberate attack and that armor can still be used to encircle or move to the front to punch a hole.
Offensive reserve is a good way to try to get more divisions to the point of attack when only 6 divisions can attack 3 divisions and the soviets will add in another 2-3 reserve divisions making it 5 to 6 divisions in defense
As the Germans, you must damage the red army, significantly in 41. If you don't, it's very difficult in 42. Never stop attacking until the blizzard.




< Message edited by vicberg -- 3/23/2012 2:47:12 AM >

(in reply to vicberg)
Post #: 12
RE: Taking it on the chin - the sequel - vicberg(GER) v... - 3/23/2012 4:09:50 AM   
CheerfullyInsane

 

Posts: 177
Joined: 12/5/2010
From: Birkerod, Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Seminole

quote:

Any city within a dozen or so hexes of the front line should be garrisoned, period. I put guys into Moscow as early as turn four as a matter of fact, just to get them digging ASAP.


As early as possible I start putting units in every city I think can be reached by Nov '41.
Hopefully the SU is sending units straight from recruitment to the front lines. Give them a few turns as garrison in the back country to get their bearings, then rotate them forward and replace with new recruits.

No cities west of Moscow should be empty. He failed to garrison essentially level 6 and 8 forts in his capital. He let you parade through. Wonder how many factories he lost, nevermind manpower.

Too much focus on straight, pretty lines, and not enough focus on the forts that litter the map from word go. I don't worry about forming a line until the rains come. Before then, I'm buying time, and making the Germans pay as much MP as I reasonably can (staying out of the open save for behind rivers) for every inch they want eastward.


I'll freely admit that not garrisoning Moscow was something of a mistake. Chalk that one up to the inability of the Germans to get through my lines at any point until then.
Guess I got a little cocky.
In my defence I will say that Moscow was pretty much empty of factories. IIRC I lost the MiG-3s (who cares?), 3 Arm and a handful of HI.

But I will also say that my focus on 'straight, pretty lines' isn't because I like symmetry.
It's simply because those pretty lines are very effective when combined with liberal use of reserves.
Shoving units into every nook and cranny that offers terrain modifiers is all very well and good in the first 5-8 turns, but after that I'll revert to a linear defence any day of the week. Manning strong-points may make for a better CV, but they won't stop the German mobility, and they are too easily cut off and destroyed piece-meal.
Even river-lines will be abandoned if there's the slightest chance of it getting outflanked in the next turn.
I'm far more interested in keeping the Red Army intact than defending rivers and cities.
Ground can always be retaken as long as most of the factories have gone east.

_____________________________

"Something is always wrong, Baldrick. The fact that I'm not a millionaire aristocrat with the sexual capacity of a rutting rhino is a constant niggle"
- Edmund Blackadder

(in reply to Seminole)
Post #: 13
RE: Taking it on the chin - the sequel - vicberg(GER) v... - 3/25/2012 9:58:48 AM   
sillyflower


Posts: 1109
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: London
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Sigh. Rookie mistake. (Even Q-ball has made it!)

Any city within a dozen or so hexes of the front line should be garrisoned, period. I put guys into Moscow as early as turn four as a matter of fact, just to get them digging ASAP.



True, but players should live up to the names they give themselves

< Message edited by sillyflower -- 3/25/2012 9:59:06 AM >

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Post: I am always fearful that when I put this game down on the table and people see the box-art they will think I am some kind of neo-Nazi

Reply: They already know you're a gamer. What other shame can possibly compare?

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Post #: 14
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