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Loss of Port Moresby

 
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Loss of Port Moresby - 2/14/2012 12:40:31 AM   
NAVMAN

 

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Hi All,
Playing scen 7 as Allies vs Jap. It's mid-Feb '42 and I'm about to lose PM to Japs.
Is this a game breaker for Allies or something that can be overcome.
Don't want to continue if the game is effectively over.

Thx.
Post #: 1
RE: Loss of Port Moresby - 2/14/2012 12:43:41 AM   
Terminus


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That's not even with shouting distance of being a "game breaker".

The Jap player gains nothing but a hard-to-supply base on a malarial hellhole of an island. This early in the game, he won't have a lot of power projection options that aren't tied up elsewhere. Stick it out.

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Post #: 2
RE: Loss of Port Moresby - 2/14/2012 12:46:33 AM   
Numdydar

 

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Seriously, you think the game is over as the Allies if you lose PM? I assume against the AI correct? As the Allies you can let the Japs overrun almost anything and still recover really easy. Especially against the AI. You could even lose most of OZ and STILL come back and crush the Japs.

If it's mid '43 and have not taken PM back, THEN you maight have an issue. But is is waaaayy to early to give up as the Allies (unless you have lost a bunch of CV's then I would reconsider).

(in reply to NAVMAN)
Post #: 3
RE: Loss of Port Moresby - 2/14/2012 1:08:31 AM   
wdolson

 

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I had to look up which scenario was scen 7.  In a long campaign, there are few early losses that would be a game breaker.

Having Port Morseby in Japanese hands gives your planes based in northern Australia something to do.  If you're playing the AI, you can turn the waterway in between NG and Aus into a shooting gallery basing a lot of bombers there set to naval attack and pick off supply ships that try to keep the base in supply.  With B-17s based in Aus, you can keep PM closed down until you take it back.

PM is a difficult base for the Japanese to hold.

You may be a little behind historical positions for a little while, but it's far from a game breaker.

Bill


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Post #: 4
RE: Loss of Port Moresby - 2/14/2012 1:31:09 AM   
vettim89


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PM is an anathema for both sides. As Japan it is a tough base to not go after because the Allies can threated the rest of PNG and Bismarks from there. Once you take it you will quickly find it is on the "wrong side of the hill" and is a bear to keep supplied. As mentioned earlier, it becomes target practice for Allied bombers.

As Allies, you can and do often lose it early in the war (esp in PBEM). Once you do move to the offensive, you cannot ignore it. If you bypass it, you have a potential large AB on your flank or rear. If Japan heavily reinforces it, it is tough to reconquer. If you are able to hold it, then you are the one trying to resupply it under a heavy enemy air presence

The base is just a pain in the butt no matter which side you are playing.

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RE: Loss of Port Moresby - 2/14/2012 1:34:23 AM   
n01487477


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NAVMAN

Hi All,
Playing scen 7 as Allies vs Jap. It's mid-Feb '42 and I'm about to lose PM to Japs.
Is this a game breaker for Allies or something that can be overcome.
Don't want to continue if the game is effectively over.


Thx.

I'll try not to allow my wry smile to overcome what face value this Q seems has.


A serious Terminesque type answer in what could be comedic heaven. NO.

PS. Game breaker


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Post #: 6
RE: Loss of Port Moresby - 2/14/2012 1:58:03 AM   
NAVMAN

 

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Gentlemen,
Thx to you who answered my question without the sarcasm and superior attitudes.
I asked the question in "good faith". This is the first camp I have attempted to see
thru. My playing time is limited. Replies using words like "seriously", etc. are
not called for, in my view.
Thx to those who offered strategic views about this and d/n consider it a potential
comedy subject.
I'm glad my squadron CO d/n reply to questions in the same tenor as some I've
just seen.

(in reply to n01487477)
Post #: 7
RE: Loss of Port Moresby - 2/14/2012 2:08:42 AM   
n01487477


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Maybe if you posed a questions without the histrionics you'd get a reply in the vein you want.

Replied to in the manner the question was posed and dispatched accordingly.
"Effectively over" and "game breaker" certainly make the tenor of your question unwarranted.

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(in reply to NAVMAN)
Post #: 8
RE: Loss of Port Moresby - 2/14/2012 2:21:15 AM   
NAVMAN

 

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noi487477,
Well, I suppose I could have put the "offending" words/phrases within quotatations so
you would not read into it more than was there. "effectively over" seems to be a reasonable usage of words to describe a situation as to whether or not it was still
viable to play long term.
I don't know what you consider to be "histrionics", but for my part, I don't use them
when I talk about a game. Nor have I used them when flying and losing an engine.
Your use of thew word "dispatched" is interesting, as though my question was so
far beneath you that it was not worthy of you.

To the rest who replied in an informative manner, thx again.




(in reply to n01487477)
Post #: 9
RE: Loss of Port Moresby - 2/14/2012 2:28:09 AM   
n01487477


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I don't wish to escalate this any further ...

Have an enjoyable day.

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EconDoc
TrackerAE
Tutes&Java

(in reply to NAVMAN)
Post #: 10
RE: Loss of Port Moresby - 2/14/2012 2:31:21 AM   
NAVMAN

 

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n01487477:
Agreed. Have a nice day as well.


Edit for spelling.

< Message edited by NAVMAN -- 2/14/2012 2:32:58 AM >

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Post #: 11
RE: Loss of Port Moresby - 2/14/2012 6:37:13 AM   
Roger Neilson II


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Loss of Port Moresby can be a PITA for the Allies. In one of my PBEMs it proved that way for a while. I held Horn island and all the Oz bases and was subject to very annoying air raids and fast Cruiser bombardments from there and Terapo.

It was just a case of sitting and taking the kicks for a while. It became very predictable and although for a while it proved pretty impossible to sail any supplies or other forces through to northern Oz that way I am now able to do so quite happily as my own covering fighters are in number and also my opponent has had to look elsewhere at my movements.

Its almost to be expected that if a Jap opponent wants to take PM they can - as already been mentioned its a pain for both sides - almost one of those 'must visit' spots on a holiday that you actually would prefer not to go near.

Roger

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Post #: 12
RE: Loss of Port Moresby - 2/14/2012 7:05:01 AM   
castor troy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NAVMAN

Hi All,
Playing scen 7 as Allies vs Jap. It's mid-Feb '42 and I'm about to lose PM to Japs.
Is this a game breaker for Allies or something that can be overcome.
Don't want to continue if the game is effectively over.

Thx.


a game breaker would be if you would lose the whole East Coast

edit: oops, don't know what scen 7 is, so forget about my comment

< Message edited by castor troy -- 2/14/2012 7:06:18 AM >


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Post #: 13
RE: Loss of Port Moresby - 2/14/2012 2:19:40 PM   
sandman455


Posts: 201
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From: 20 yrs ago - SDO -> med down, w/BC glasses on
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NAVMAN

Gentlemen,
Thx to you who answered my question without the sarcasm and superior attitudes.
I asked the question in "good faith". This is the first camp I have attempted to see
thru. My playing time is limited. Replies using words like "seriously", etc. are
not called for, in my view.
Thx to those who offered strategic views about this and d/n consider it a potential
comedy subject.
I'm glad my squadron CO d/n reply to questions in the same tenor as some I've
just seen.





S E R I O U S L Y ? ?

The CO of Air Anti-Submarine Squadron 32 once threw a phone at me. He missed and hit the Maintenance Officer. Nobody like him or the MO so it was cool. That skipper is still one of my favorites though. He had character and was a ASW god. He always ranked me #1 or #2 so he must of like me too.

The CO of Strike Fighter Weapon School Atlantic hated the FA18 RAG CO so much that he would over schedule the simulators for the FA18 and then send over stash ensigns (freshly commissioned awaiting orders to the training command) to play in them. They and their staff would have shouting matches that would nearly break into fights. He once despised one commander who was transitioning from A7's to FA18's so much that, he sent over a S-3 NFO to run his ACM dome event (He was bad, I shot him down 6 times out of 19). The weapon school CO literally laughed so hard that he started spitting up, when I told him that I was pretty sure that he never figured out that I was a NFO from an entirely different aircraft.

So what community has these CO's that reply to questions without yelling and insults? Air Force I bet.

_____________________________

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AOCS 1985, VT10 1985-86, VT86 1986, VS41 1986-87
VS32 1987-90 (NSO/NWTO, deployed w/CV-66, CVN-71)
VS27 1990-91 (NATOPS/Safety)
SFWSLANT 1991-93 (AGM-84 All platforms, S-3 A/B systems)

(in reply to NAVMAN)
Post #: 14
RE: Loss of Port Moresby - 2/14/2012 2:49:34 PM   
Canoerebel


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Navman, in my combined five WitP and AE PBEM as the Allied player I've managed to lose the Aluetians, Midway, Pago Pago, Suva, Tahiti, Noumea, Luganville, Port Moresby, Townsville, Rockhampton, Brisbane, Perth, Darwin, Calcutta, Trincomalee, Colombo, and Madras (not all in one game, mind you) and haven't lost yet.  :)  Playing the Allied side is quite forgiving.  Losing PM is routine in a PBEM - against most experienced IJ players there is no way for the Allies to defend it.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 2/14/2012 2:50:49 PM >

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Post #: 15
RE: Loss of Port Moresby - 2/14/2012 3:21:28 PM   
crsutton


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From: Maryland
Status: offline
Yep, you can pretty much assume that it is always going to be lost. Not a problem at all. Lose all six carriers in June of 42-then you got a problem...

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Post #: 16
RE: Loss of Port Moresby - 2/14/2012 3:46:05 PM   
Roger Neilson II


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From: Newcastle upon Tyne. England
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One man's problem is another man's challenge.......

Lol

Roger

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Post #: 17
RE: Loss of Port Moresby - 2/14/2012 4:06:00 PM   
JocMeister

 

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Hehe,

GreyJoy lost China, most of Inda and half of OZ (I might have forgotten something more he lost) and still came back and invaded the HI. Very entertaining AAR. I recommend you read it!
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2761796

I don´t think anything is a gamebreaker as the allied against the AI.

(in reply to Roger Neilson II)
Post #: 18
RE: Loss of Port Moresby - 2/14/2012 5:32:45 PM   
bradfordkay

 

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"I don´t think anything is a gamebreaker as the allied against the AI."


Well... maybe losing the United States... but I can't picture that ever happening!

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fair winds,
Brad

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Post #: 19
RE: Loss of Port Moresby - 2/14/2012 6:18:26 PM   
vettim89


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From: Toledo, Ohio
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As a confirmed AFB, I would agree with those that say you can those about anything short of the WCUSA and go on to win. In my 2x2 with Nomad as my partner we lost PM, all of the New Hebrides, New Caledonia, Fiji, the Tonga Islands, and all of Samoa by May 1942. I just yawned. In a way, it made my life easier as I had less to worry about protecting. The AE map is big enough that you can work around almost any Japanese conquests.

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Post #: 20
RE: Loss of Port Moresby - 2/14/2012 9:45:28 PM   
NAVMAN

 

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Hi All,
Thx for your comments. So far, PM is holding out. Horn Isl is gone after a brief struggle.
I formed a relief force from troops in Brisbane and sent it off to PM, but after
reading some of these posts, decided to return it to Brisbane. BTW, part of that force
was Repulse and POW, which I manged to extricate from Singapore, which just fell
(2/27/42).
I still hold Java. As a poster mentioned, with Horn gone and most likely PM,
a problem may develop as to how to supply the north coast of Qz, including
Darwin. Also, should further evacuations become needed in Java, the loss of PM combined
with the loss of Horn, may make that difficult in not unrealistic.
My only effective bombers at this point in Oz have been the A24s based at PM which
have done well. The P40s have suffered significant attrition, but they have to be
withdrawn soon anyway.
Major CV battle at Midway in Jan. Japs lost 2 CVs, I lost Enterprise. Sara is in the shipyard at PH for repairs which will take approx 5 mos.
I've sunk 3 Jap CVs in total, 2 CVEs and 2 CVLs. Lost Enterprise and Lex.
Japs now attempting to take Canton Isl, but I have level three(3) fort and a marine
defense unit there. First landing attempt wiped out.
Re: squadron co, I was navy so compared to the gent who related his experience(s),
I guess I lucked out, although some of the XOs tended to be somewhat brusque, shall we say.

Thx again, very helpfull.

Edit for grammar,spelling

< Message edited by NAVMAN -- 2/14/2012 9:47:24 PM >

(in reply to vettim89)
Post #: 21
RE: Loss of Port Moresby - 2/14/2012 9:48:20 PM   
Terminus


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From: Denmark
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You've done well so far. If it takes PM, you're not in deep trouble.

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Post #: 22
RE: Loss of Port Moresby - 2/14/2012 11:04:39 PM   
Alfred

 

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Players who abandon a game whenever it reaches a so called "breaking point", will never improve their play to any significant degree. Most lessons are better learnt from careful analysis of defeats than from victories. Playing beyond a so called "breaking point" forces one to be more creative, and to learn the interrelationships of assets and plans. To stop at that point is usually the mark of a lazy player who just wants the easy life.

In AE there is no "breaking point", particularly if one is playing the AI. A player will have suffered a massive loss of the game, as per s.17 of the manual, long before anything remotely approaching a "breaking point" is reached.

Alfred

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Post #: 23
RE: Loss of Port Moresby - 2/14/2012 11:12:05 PM   
denisonh


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From: Northern Virginia
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I would highlight Greyjoy's AAR against Rader, as Greyjoy never quit and it provided not only great entertainment but a great venue to analyze setbacks and how to move forward.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Players who abandon a game whenever it reaches a so called "breaking point", will never improve their play to any significant degree. Most lessons are better learnt from careful analysis of defeats than from victories. Playing beyond a so called "breaking point" forces one to be more creative, and to learn the interrelationships of assets and plans. To stop at that point is usually the mark of a lazy player who just wants the easy life.

In AE there is no "breaking point", particularly if one is playing the AI. A player will have suffered a massive loss of the game, as per s.17 of the manual, long before anything remotely approaching a "breaking point" is reached.

Alfred



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Post #: 24
RE: Loss of Port Moresby - 2/15/2012 12:44:11 AM   
Titanwarrior89


Posts: 3079
Joined: 8/28/2003
From: arkansas
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I think one of your biggest problem's with be hanging in there, month after month(real months) getting pounded until you can get enough assets together to mount a major operation and successfully win it. Good luck.
quote:

ORIGINAL: NAVMAN

Gentlemen,
Thx to you who answered my question without the sarcasm and superior attitudes.
I asked the question in "good faith". This is the first camp I have attempted to see
thru. My playing time is limited. Replies using words like "seriously", etc. are
not called for, in my view.
Thx to those who offered strategic views about this and d/n consider it a potential
comedy subject.
I'm glad my squadron CO d/n reply to questions in the same tenor as some I've
just seen.




< Message edited by Titanwarrior89 -- 2/15/2012 12:46:23 AM >


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Post #: 25
RE: Loss of Port Moresby - 2/15/2012 1:17:04 AM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 7601
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sandman455
S E R I O U S L Y ? ?

The CO of Air Anti-Submarine Squadron 32 once threw a phone at me. He missed and hit the Maintenance Officer. Nobody like him or the MO so it was cool. That skipper is still one of my favorites though. He had character and was a ASW god. He always ranked me #1 or #2 so he must of like me too.

The CO of Strike Fighter Weapon School Atlantic hated the FA18 RAG CO so much that he would over schedule the simulators for the FA18 and then send over stash ensigns (freshly commissioned awaiting orders to the training command) to play in them. They and their staff would have shouting matches that would nearly break into fights. He once despised one commander who was transitioning from A7's to FA18's so much that, he sent over a S-3 NFO to run his ACM dome event (He was bad, I shot him down 6 times out of 19). The weapon school CO literally laughed so hard that he started spitting up, when I told him that I was pretty sure that he never figured out that I was a NFO from an entirely different aircraft.

So what community has these CO's that reply to questions without yelling and insults? Air Force I bet.


Swede Larson took over VT-8 after Waldron was killed at Midway. In the air, he was virtually fearless once going in alone against a large surface force and dropped on a cruiser. He also flew a TBF at Guadalcanal (VT-8 were put ashore there for a while) that was a Frankenstein's monster. The thing could barely get airborne, but Larson flew it anyway.

On the other hand, he was probably one of the worst leaders in military history. He was very capricious. He would chew some people out for virtually nothing and write off major issues with a shrug other times, though he was more likely to yell at people than shrug. He also demoted some men just because he didn't like them for no apparent reason. He came very close to getting shot in the back by his own men on at least two occasions. Other squadron members stopped the would be shooters before they could fire.

When VT-8 was disbanded after Guadalcanal I don't believe he ever had a command again.

Bill

_____________________________

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(in reply to sandman455)
Post #: 26
RE: Loss of Port Moresby - 2/15/2012 6:24:09 AM   
NAVMAN

 

Posts: 401
Joined: 12/31/2002
Status: offline
Thx to all for your continued comments, suggestions, etc. Most welcome.
Clark fell, no surprise there. Canton Isl held and the jap. thrust there is now heading
west. PM also holding. As a poster above noted, looks like the idea here is to hold
on, make limited offensive moves, where warranted, and defend essential areas.
Am massing forces, such as they are, at PH, Brisbane, Neumea(sp) and Luganville.
Will also review the noted aars.

(in reply to wdolson)
Post #: 27
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