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The Rubix Cube that is WitE.

 
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The Rubix Cube that is WitE. - 2/13/2012 5:11:37 PM   
Pelton

 

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The Rubix Cube that is WitE.

8421 1.05 Lost Leningrad and held Moscow
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2962633
Turn 24 SHC OOB: 4,780,000 Enemy KIA:3,419,000
Turn 53 SHC OOB: 6,978,000 Enemy KIA:4,713,000

M60 1.05 Lost Leningrad and Moscow during snow and took it back early in Blizzard.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2920420
Turn 25 SHC OOB: 5,472,000 Enemy KIA:2,989,000
Turn 53 SHC OOB 6,696,000 Enemy KIA: 4,393,000

TVD 1.05 Held both Leningrad and Moscow.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2902711
Turn 25 SHC OOB: 4,876,000 Enemy KIA:3,019,000
Turn 53 SHC OOB: 5,369,000 Enemy KIA:4,542,000

As I play games I track each one. What makes me keep coming back for more is how many different ways there are to play as the Russian player.
As a German only player I have found some things that work. I basically stick to my general plan and make adjustments based on what the Russian player gives me. I also try and take advantage of any mistakes that the SHC player might make during the 41-45 GC.

My game plan is basically set in stone as there is not much I can really do to effect the game in any way large or small as I have tried several different game plans and keep coming back to old fateful.

On the other hand I see huge differences in strategy on the SHC side of things. The SHC player is given allot more rope, in some cases the player has a clear understanding of the game mechanics and uses the extra rope to milk allot more out of the game system. In other cases the SHC player does not have that clear of an understanding of the game mechanics and uses the extra rope to hang themselves so to speak.

TVD by far had the better 1941, one of the best ever I have played against. Low losses and held both Leningrad and Moscow.
M60 lost Moscow, but kept his losses low.
8421 suffered allot of losses more then normal and got 72 units destroyed after November 1st 1942. My best snow 1941 O ever.

TVD then followed up his great summer by pocketing 30 German divisions and 20 minor allied units. Again the worst blizzard I have ever suffered. This totally under the "nerfed" blizzard rule set of 1.05.
M60's blizzard O was average.
8421 blizzard O was "poor" and started withdrawing in February.

One would think that TVD would be in a very strong position come the Summer of 1942. Massive German losses, low German morale and allot of ground taken back, but as can be seen his OOB is low, very low for June 1942. It appears he out ran his railheads and smoked allot of trucks. My OOB is climbing faster then his and I don't have any units in static mode yet.

M60 problems I believe were because he probably spent his AP pts on corp. and not divisions as Kamil, Hoooper and 8421 all did in 1941/1942.

8421 tactics completely canceled out the March madness. Simply retreating a few hexes a turn was all that was needed for him and not a patch. I was totally unable to do anything, until clear weather. This game is completely reflective of 1.06. 8421 has also been able to milk an extra 870,000 replacements out of the system compared to M60 between turns 24 and 54. Despite higher then normal loses for 1941, a weak Blizzard O and one of the worst 1942 springs I have seen ( 5 tank corp., 4 cav corp. and 51 rifle/tank/cav divisions pocketed and destroyed), yet he has the largest OOB of the 3 and his lines are much stronger then the other 2 by turn 54 despite his poor tactics to-date. 8421 has a much better understanding of logistics and what needs to be built and when to make up for his lack of tactics. 8421 over-all strategy is long term and very good as was Kamil and Hooopers.

Its clear to me the majority of players still have yet to figure out The Rubix Cube that is the Red Machine. Some have very good tactics, but their understanding of how the mechanics(strategy) of the game is there down fall in the long run. This in many cases is not the fault of the SHC players, because so few games get into 1942 as many German players quit. The learning curve on the German side is steep and is 100% unforgiving in all but a few cases.

I like most people vs. TVD would have run up the white flag. But after reading some AAR’s and getting some advice from Russian players about trucks and supplies I wanted to see what would happen come 1942 at least for the fun of it. I might still lose the game, but it is sure fun to make a comeback from smoking heap that was the German Army on March 1st 1942. Not really because of anything I have done, but because of TVD over reaching during the Blizzard.

As can be seen 2by3’s job of balancing out the game along historical lines and allowing for historical "what ifs" is a daunting task. AI vs. AI play can help to model the game, but once you throw in player vs. player much (not all) of the AI vs. AI modeling goes out the window as players look under the hood at the game mechanics/system and take advantage of any loop holes in the system.

Each patch closes many loop holes, fixes balancing issues, clears up bugs and creates a few more of each, but in general each patch has been positive.

WitE is a Rubix Cube that the player base and dev’s are still trying to solve. With each passing AAR, detected bug and patch the solution is that much closer for everyone.

With 14 games closed and 6 on going, I am still finding the 20th 41-45 GC as interesting, complex, fun and frustrating at times as the first PvP 41-45 GC game I played.




< Message edited by Pelton -- 2/13/2012 10:25:02 PM >


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15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
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8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


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Post #: 1
RE: The Rubix Cube that is WitE. - 2/13/2012 5:24:33 PM   
paullus99


Posts: 1595
Joined: 1/23/2002
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Pelton - great post. I appreciate your insight written up in a very comprehensive and reasoned manner. There are still quite a lot of areas of the game that need to be explored - some of which may create situations where some flaw in the code is found that should be addressed.

I also agree that tactics / strategies have evolved and changed - and that there doesn't seem to be a "silver bullet" that guarantees any one single result more than that single time. I've seen very large Red Army OOBs, but because of deficient force structure, even this large force is unable to make adequate headway against a good German defense.

It will also remain true that a German strategic victory will be rare - but at the same time, I believe a Russian strategic victory will be just as rare. There is a very delicate balancing act here - which rests as much on us as players as it does on the developers.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 2
RE: The Rubix Cube that is WitE. - 2/13/2012 5:28:09 PM   
Speedy

 

Posts: 14371
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From: Reading, England
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Agreed Pelton and good post. I think this shows firstly how complex the machine is but also secondly that there's no magic bullet for this. Sure we all know there's certain right and wrongs but the complexity of the game and the different way in which people play can create totally different situations.

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Post #: 3
RE: The Rubix Cube that is WitE. - 2/13/2012 7:59:42 PM   
darbymcd

 

Posts: 273
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This is a very interesting post. I am also curious about your experience with the TVD game. It really shows one of the difficulties with balancing WitE. As you said, you were put in a very terrible position, and most players would quit and maybe say the game was broken. But as you played on you saw that he paid a price for his success, and maybe this gives you opportunities. It is this kind of experience you have with the long game that can be very valuable to making the game better. Seeing what the long term implications of differing strategies is what the game is about, and because the system is designed to be highly stochastic and long running this kind of insight you have is the only way to really understand changes. Thank you.

(in reply to Speedy)
Post #: 4
RE: The Rubix Cube that is WitE. - 2/14/2012 3:48:41 AM   
AFV


Posts: 371
Joined: 12/24/2011
From: Dallas, Texas
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Where is Pelton and what have you done with him???

Sorry, could not resist. This is an excellent post. As a relative newcomer, it is good to see the game is making improvements over time. They can't make everyone happy but as long as they are working on it, that is a really good sign.

Not to say there are not things with this game that irritate me- like HI and fuel meaning nothing (just remove it until you are ready to fix it), but its very encouraging they continue to try. Not everything they do will hit the bullseye but it does seem, for the most part, they are going in the right direction.

(in reply to darbymcd)
Post #: 5
RE: The Rubix Cube that is WitE. - 2/14/2012 3:37:53 PM   
bwheatley

 

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Joined: 12/13/2004
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I think your points will be more well received. Thank you for toning down the angst. :) <3

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