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Stats for G10N Fugaku and art of G5N

 
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Stats for G10N Fugaku and art of G5N - 2/12/2012 7:42:51 PM   
traskott

 

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Hello to everyone

Two questions:

- Anyone has the stats of the G10N ? I have looking around but don't finde any suitable data to add this plane.

- I need the art of the G5N. I can't find it, although i'm sure I have saw it anywhere..


Thank you in advance !!!

Post #: 1
RE: Stats for G10N Fugaku and art of G5N - 2/12/2012 8:09:47 PM   
kirk23


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Japanese G5N Heavy bomber art




Attachment (1)

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RE: Stats for G10N Fugaku and art of G5N - 2/12/2012 8:21:09 PM   
Terminus


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You don't want the G8N instead? The G10N had NO CHANCE WHATSOEVER to be built.

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RE: Stats for G10N Fugaku and art of G5N - 2/12/2012 8:21:14 PM   
traskott

 

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Thanks!

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RE: Stats for G10N Fugaku and art of G5N - 2/12/2012 8:29:52 PM   
traskott

 

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Well, Terminus, I'll take G8N

Edit: BTW: I'm cutting and pasting from one set of art to another... what's the size of individual plane? ( top/top alpha ). Thanks !!

< Message edited by traskott -- 2/12/2012 8:30:55 PM >

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RE: Stats for G10N Fugaku and art of G5N - 2/12/2012 9:07:34 PM   
Halsey


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Planesides are 150x60 pixels with the border.


Tops and shils are 60x75 pixels.

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RE: Stats for G10N Fugaku and art of G5N - 2/12/2012 9:12:15 PM   
traskott

 

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Thanks. Now I'm looking for the G8N stats....

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RE: Stats for G10N Fugaku and art of G5N - 2/12/2012 9:32:26 PM   
Terminus


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Okay, here we are.




Note that this is my take on it, nothing definite as usual. Also, while the Renzan had Nakajima engines, it didn't use the Ha-45.

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< Message edited by Terminus -- 2/12/2012 9:38:49 PM >


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G10N - 2/12/2012 9:57:37 PM   
Shark7


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OK, since this aircraft never even made it past the mock-up stage, and no prototype ever existed, the best I can do is take the projected info out there and make a SWAG.

This is what I came up with...its definitely up for discussion, as nothing I've done is 'set in stone'. I'm sure I've made some errors that others will point out.

Also Terminus is 100% correct on this...Japan could never have made enough of these to matter...in fact no prototype ever existed because Japan lacked the resources to continue the project, hence its cancellation.






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RE: G10N - 2/12/2012 11:24:47 PM   
traskott

 

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Thank you very much, both of you guys !!!

Well, I have made a mod with plenty of 4E models for both sides, it will be interesting to see if Japan can build and mantain a good number of those monsters. USAAF has B-27s, B-39, B-30, even B-35, IJAAF have G5, G8, G10, and some german models. This scen would be LeMay wet dream. ...

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RE: Stats for G10N Fugaku and art of G5N - 2/15/2012 3:33:11 AM   
Halsey


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G8N1 Rita






Attachment (1)

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https://sites.google.com/site/aewitplandairartwork/home/ae-witp-bitmap-downloads

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RE: Stats for G10N Fugaku and art of G5N - 2/15/2012 9:39:41 AM   
traskott

 

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Thank you !! Added...

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RE: Stats for G10N Fugaku and art of G5N - 3/1/2012 8:13:58 PM   
elcid

 

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Terminus is correct in any historical mod, without doubt. The G10N1 was more or less a "Japanese B-36" -
and even the B-36 - a wartime design - didn't make production for the war. [In part, priority was low,
as the potential need - being thrown out of Europe and Asia altogether, didn't happen. Similarly the Hughes
Flying Boat was not well funded - and continued more as a private project due to lack of requirement.]
But in Japan, it was different: this was a paper study, for future developments, pending the development,
above all, of engines with the required power. In fact, the original design called for engines of twice the power
as were finally settled on for an initial production version - the later engines (if memory serves) being actually
an engine pair in the same nacile. But the design does show remarkable similarity to the B-36 insofar as both
contemplated a similar number of engines of similar size (although tractor vice pusher in layout).

Even in developing several layers of "an enhanced Japan mod" for RHS in WITP days, I was never able to justify
the G10N1 - and not much interested since, if I could have done, it would have been very late arriving - certainly
not better than the B-36 achieved in the extreme best case. But there is no actual end date for a mod, and
it might be possible to rationalize for post 1945 appearance. If that is tempting, let me describe what happened when
we put a German bomber into Japan in an ahistorical mod for WITP: Nemo found it ate too many supplies to be
worth having in numbers. Since players rarely notice the use of supplies by aircraft, this indicates the impact of huge
planes in the game system. In part - the reason the Me-264 used so many supplies is because of its gigantic
fuel capacity - something that surely would apply to a G-10 - and I modeled this by defining the max load - and
using much of it for what might be called "internal drop tanks" - so they would have a supply cost. We had to rationalize
why the Japanese didn't get the Condor (which they paid for FYI - and licenced - but the jigs and prototypes didn't make
it to Japan; in any case the Condor isn't impressive by Pacific standards - although remember it was an early development
and was relatively better when designed than later) - but funded the 264 instead? Messerschmidt, Hoenkel and FW all had
development teams in Japan - Hoenkel himself lived there for a while and his He-100 was also licenced there - as was the
Me-109E - although in the event only 3 of each were obtained and none were built. The required engine was put into production,
and it was only the judgement the Ki-44 was better that killed prospects for both. The engine ended up being used in the Ki-61s.
Anyway - it might be possible to rationalize the Me-264 - and Nemo loved it - but I ended up removing it (slots were too rare in
WITP days) - because it was too marginal. For one thing, building more than two engine bombers costs too many engines for Japan
to afford in numbers.

Another bomber that might be possible is the G7. This plane - rejected because it was impossible to achieve what the navy wanted on two engines
of the power available - leading to G8 development - COULD have been built to a lesser specification (that is, what the two engines could support).
It would be available sooner than a G8 - although lacking its range and sheer lift - but be similar in terms of protection and defensive armament
technology. Think of it as a super Betty.

I have art for all these projects - done by Cobra years ago - as well as specs - if you want them.

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 13
RE: Stats for G10N Fugaku and art of G5N - 3/2/2012 9:48:44 AM   
traskott

 

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From: Valladolid, Spain
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Thanks, I got the art and now I'm currently testing ( playing!!! ) the mod...

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Post #: 14
RE: Stats for G10N Fugaku and art of G5N - 3/2/2012 3:38:00 PM   
Shark7


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From: The Big Nowhere
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quote:

ORIGINAL: elcid

Terminus is correct in any historical mod, without doubt. The G10N1 was more or less a "Japanese B-36" -
and even the B-36 - a wartime design - didn't make production for the war. [In part, priority was low,
as the potential need - being thrown out of Europe and Asia altogether, didn't happen. Similarly the Hughes
Flying Boat was not well funded - and continued more as a private project due to lack of requirement.]
But in Japan, it was different: this was a paper study, for future developments, pending the development,
above all, of engines with the required power. In fact, the original design called for engines of twice the power
as were finally settled on for an initial production version - the later engines (if memory serves) being actually
an engine pair in the same nacile. But the design does show remarkable similarity to the B-36 insofar as both
contemplated a similar number of engines of similar size (although tractor vice pusher in layout).

Even in developing several layers of "an enhanced Japan mod" for RHS in WITP days, I was never able to justify
the G10N1 - and not much interested since, if I could have done, it would have been very late arriving - certainly
not better than the B-36 achieved in the extreme best case. But there is no actual end date for a mod, and
it might be possible to rationalize for post 1945 appearance. If that is tempting, let me describe what happened when
we put a German bomber into Japan in an ahistorical mod for WITP: Nemo found it ate too many supplies to be
worth having in numbers. Since players rarely notice the use of supplies by aircraft, this indicates the impact of huge
planes in the game system. In part - the reason the Me-264 used so many supplies is because of its gigantic
fuel capacity - something that surely would apply to a G-10 - and I modeled this by defining the max load - and
using much of it for what might be called "internal drop tanks" - so they would have a supply cost. We had to rationalize
why the Japanese didn't get the Condor (which they paid for FYI - and licenced - but the jigs and prototypes didn't make
it to Japan; in any case the Condor isn't impressive by Pacific standards - although remember it was an early development
and was relatively better when designed than later) - but funded the 264 instead? Messerschmidt, Hoenkel and FW all had
development teams in Japan - Hoenkel himself lived there for a while and his He-100 was also licenced there - as was the
Me-109E - although in the event only 3 of each were obtained and none were built. The required engine was put into production,
and it was only the judgement the Ki-44 was better that killed prospects for both. The engine ended up being used in the Ki-61s.
Anyway - it might be possible to rationalize the Me-264 - and Nemo loved it - but I ended up removing it (slots were too rare in
WITP days) - because it was too marginal. For one thing, building more than two engine bombers costs too many engines for Japan
to afford in numbers.

Another bomber that might be possible is the G7. This plane - rejected because it was impossible to achieve what the navy wanted on two engines
of the power available - leading to G8 development - COULD have been built to a lesser specification (that is, what the two engines could support).
It would be available sooner than a G8 - although lacking its range and sheer lift - but be similar in terms of protection and defensive armament
technology. Think of it as a super Betty.

I have art for all these projects - done by Cobra years ago - as well as specs - if you want them.


elcid, do you mind posting the art and stats for the G-7? I'd be interested in it as an optional path to the late war Betty.

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RE: Stats for G10N Fugaku and art of G5N - 3/2/2012 7:46:46 PM   
elcid

 

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Joined: 11/20/2002
From: Lakewood Washington
Status: offline
When I was home ported in Yokosuka, at one point my ship was in drydock, so for an extended period
I was assigned "perminant" (meaning more than one day) shore patrol duty, and was able to go visit
places in Japan, and to study Japanese (which, apart from three of the four ways to write it, is easy -
as is Romanji - writing it in the Roman alphabet). Among other places I visited was Mitsubishi, which
has a fine collection of vehicles, and there I met a JASDF captain with an interest in aircraft - which got
me started building a database of all Japanese period machines, including those not completed.

Later, as a civilian, I was a "resident computer engineer" at a USAF Software Integration Laboratory,
at a Boeing site - occasionally tasked to visit other Boeing sites in the Seattle (Kent/Renton/Everette)
area - and I learned about how to simulate aircraft performance. Since the G7 design study was rejected,
and no machines were built or tested, I had to "fill in the blanks" to some extent. The aircraft is more or less
an improved G4M with more powerful engines, designed from the outset with armor and better defensive
armament, and - critically - the ability to carry a 21 inch (vice 18 inch) torpedo - which (to my surprise) the
game engine handles just fine.

The earliest possible date to start production (I use a ramped production system starting at 1 so it takes time
to increase) is 6/44 - and that is very optimistic - in particular requiring advanced engines be developed.
The engine in question is 2460 hp - and is a bomber engine - something my devices permit one to know. Any
appropriate engine will serve in AE - it doesn't care - but it should be one the player must develop - likely
delaying production start.

I classify it as Type 04, Level Bomber,
Service 02 IJ Navy
Upgrade - none
Max Speed 321 KNOTS (I use knots - increase by 15% for mph)
Cruising Speed 200 KNOTS (same same - knots because the map is in Nautical Miles)
endurance 1021 minutes
Maneuverability 13
ROC 1627
Max Altitude 26136 (this is 90% of service cieling - an RHS convention for turbosupercharged propeller
engines - increase by 11% if you use service cieling)

There are twin 20mm Type 99-2 Top and Rear Turrets
There are 13mm Type 2 MG in the nose and on each side

The aircraft carries H-6 Airborne Surface Search Radar

and its normal load is a 53 cm Type 95 Torpedo

Max Range - 3402 NM (86 Hexes) [Note that in RHS we use actual transfer range for Max Range]
Extended Range - 1734 NM (34 Hexes)
Normal Range - 1633 NM (33 Hexes)

The medium bomber box is checked.

Use a Betty bitmap until I find a copy of Cobra's work for this plane.

< Message edited by elcid -- 3/2/2012 8:00:46 PM >

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Post #: 16
RE: Stats for G10N Fugaku and art of G5N - 3/2/2012 9:10:16 PM   
Shark7


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From: The Big Nowhere
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Interesting, thank you.

Since you didn't list it, I assume durability would be similar or slightly higher than the Betty? Also an armor rating of 1 for self sealing tank?

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RE: Stats for G10N Fugaku and art of G5N - 3/3/2012 4:58:07 AM   
elcid

 

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Joined: 11/20/2002
From: Lakewood Washington
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Turns out Cobra didn't do a G7M1 art version for RHS before - we simply used Betty art.

I found some art - and a slightly different set of specs and version of the story than I remember from
Mitsubishi in 1968. It appears there were different versions of the plane - including a proposal to go
with four engines - which was rejected by higher (at least until the study indicated the desired range
was impossible on two - by which time it was too late to do any 4 engine program - still - it implies
we might work up a 4 engine version of the G7 assuming the original proposal was not rejected).

Here is at least one form of art and a version of the tale:

G7M1 Taizan
April 27, 2011 0 Comments


Facing enemy fighters and a barrage of anti-aircraft artillery fire, the crew of this G7M1 Taizan bomber nevertheless continues their torpedo run against a US carrier. A failed successor to the famous G4M “Betty”, it never made it beyond the mock-up stage. created by Ronnie Olsthoorn


The G7M shown is Takahashi's version. The Japanese were investigating turboprops but the G7M as envisioned by Takahashi did not use them.
The G7M as designed by Kiro Honjo. There was a version designed first, however, by Kijiro Takahashi which was quite different from what Honjo came up with (which, basically, was a derivative of the G4M which he also worked on). Takahashi's design used two 24-cylinder, H-engines and had a nose not unlike the Heinkel He 177 (among other similar features) and used a tricycle landing gear system. The design was doomed when the needed machinery to produce the H-engines could not be imported. With Takahashi's project shelved, Honjo took over but, ultimately, even the G7M (and its competitor, the Kawanishi K-100) was canceled in favor of four-engined bomber designs.



As a note, the G7M was intended as a long range, strategic bomber, not a medium bomber like the G4M (despite its great range). In the end, the constant revisions to the G7M resulted in a design little better than the G4M which helped speed its demise.



Takahashi's design, with a lighter payload, was expected to meet the 4,598 mile range dictated by the 16-shi specification. The Dornier Do 17 couldn't even touch this kind of range. For reference, from Tokyo, Japan to Los Angeles, California is 5,478 miles.



With Takahashi's version of the G7M doomed, Honjo's version, while also estimated to be able to attain the 16-shi range, was wishful thinking. No doubt the Kaigun Koku Hombu realized to attain such a range would have resulted in a relatively worthless bomb load.



The G7M was a strategic bomber, not a heavy bomber. By strategic, we are talking about a plane capable of a very large operational radius.



Honjo's original concept for the G7M had four engines but just the mere suggestion of using four engines saw Honjo's idea squashed by the Kaigun Koku Hombu before it ever got anywhere. This is when Takahashi stepped up with his two engine design. It wasn't until the failure of the G7M1 (Honjo's two-engine design) and the K-100 to meet the 16-shi and 17-shi specifications respectively did the Kaigun Koku Hombu become more receptive to four engine bombers. Of course, by then, it was too little, too late.

Mitsubishi G7M1 "Taizan" Ground Bomber

(Type16 Experimental Ground Bomber "Taizan")

Length: 20.00m

Wing Span: 25.00m

All-Up Weight: 16,000Kg

Engine: Mitsubishi Ha42 Model 31 (2,400hp) X 4

Max Speed: 556Km/h

Range: 2,780Km

Crew: 5

Armament: 20mm Machine Gun X 2, 13mm Machine Gun X 6

Bomb: 800Kg X 1 or 500Kg X 2 or 250Kg X 6 or Torpedo X 1


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RE: Stats for G10N Fugaku and art of G5N - 3/8/2012 2:18:17 AM   
Commander Stormwolf

 

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putting a torpedo under a Ki-46-III would have been a good idea

faster than the P1Y frances, but less armor.. intereseting idea

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