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Is production from isolated cities working as intended?

 
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Is production from isolated cities working as intended? - 2/12/2012 3:35:51 PM   
wdkruger

 

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I was doing some testing to understand the production system and this is what I found. I'm concentrating on one soviet city Ivanov with 3HI and 3Arm points.

Turn 1 Ivanov on grid no adjacent to germans. One soviet unit (23 guards) in city.

Ivanov stats:
1656 Supply
2000 Resources
Manpower 15 0 damage

Unit stats:
31 Supply on hand.

Armaments production (based on log): 72000
Supply Production: 120500

Turn 2-Ivanov now isolated by Germans

Ivanov Stats
3474 Supply
0 Resources
Manpower: 16 0 damaged

Unit stat
28 onhand consumed 27

Armaments production (based on log): 72000
Supply Production: 120500



My interpretation is that the HI has converted the 2000 resources into supply and that 180 supply points were used. 150 were used by the armament factory and other 30 were used to supply the unit. Not exactly sure why numbers don't add up (seems like 6 supplies are "missing"). Also it seems like manpower starvation is not occuring in method described by manual.

Turn 3 Simply continued for another turn with nothing done.

Ivanovo
3304 Supplies
0 Resources
16 Manpower 0 damaged

Unit stas
24 supply on hand 23 consumed

Armaments production (based on log): 72000
Supply Production: 118500



Interpretation: 170 supplies used. 150 must have been used for armaments production (note armaments production has not gone down despite isolation. Do these isolated armaments point go into general pool? If so, does not seem right). Other 20 were used to supply unit (23 consumed, 20 from city, 4 less in amount "on hand". Again does not quite add up. Note Manpower is still 0 damaged.

Key Questions:

1) Why no Manpower starvation as described in manual?

2) Where do those isolated Armorment points go?
Post #: 1
RE: Is production from isolated cities working as inten... - 2/12/2012 6:09:48 PM   
Denniss

 

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Please check the equipment stats of your unit, it may have received some new items from ARM production in the city?

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RE: Is production from isolated cities working as inten... - 2/12/2012 6:58:02 PM   
wdkruger

 

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Just checked. No additional equipment in unit.

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RE: Is production from isolated cities working as inten... - 2/13/2012 3:41:58 PM   
wdkruger

 

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Bump. Joel any thoughts on why the Manpower is not changing despite being isolated? Also, are the ARM points produced by the isolated city going into the general pool?

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RE: Is production from isolated cities working as inten... - 2/13/2012 3:57:28 PM   
Helpless


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Isolation doesn't mean automatic starvation.

Armaments go to the pool. If no resources could be shipped it won't last for long.

Isolated units can construct forts - it is consuming supplies.

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RE: Is production from isolated cities working as inten... - 2/13/2012 4:47:45 PM   
wdkruger

 

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Dear Pavel;

Thanks for your response. It sounds like you are saying everything is working as intended. I will point out that Armament production requires supplies not resources, so in the case that I presented the city could be producing armaments for about 20 turns before it runs out of supplies. (Probably not likely, but in theory possible).

With regrards to starvation what you say directly contradicts what is written in section 20.5.1 pasted below. This should be changed if not true.

20.5.1. Manpower Starvation Damage
Every turn town, city and urban hexes must trace supply and will suffer a starvation damage percentage equal to the supply path MP cost minus 5. For example, for the supply trace path to Leningrad over Lake Ladoga in the summer the move path MP cost would be 13 (20.1.3), resulting in Leningrad adding 8 percent each week to its manpower damage percentage. Manpower factories recover 3 percent per turn (21.2), so the net increase in damage would be 5 percent per turn. If a town, city or urban hex cannot trace a supply path and is isolated it takes 25 percent starvation damage every turn. Manpower works just like factories in terms of producing manpower points based on the damage (some up to 50 percent, none once over 50 percent damaged). When a town, city or urban hex’s manpower reaches 100 percent damage, additional damage may cause the permanent loss of manpower factory points from the hex. Town, city and urban hexes will only take starvation damage if a supplied enemy unit is within four hexes of the hex. Also, town, city and urban hexes won't take starvation damage if they can trace a path of friendly ground hexes to a railhead of four hexes or less, regardless of enemy ZOC or the number of MPs to the railhead.

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Post #: 6
RE: Is production from isolated cities working as inten... - 2/13/2012 5:51:17 PM   
Joel Billings


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At 25% damage per turn, it would take 4 turns of isolation to reach 100% damage. Once at 100%, then there is a chance that a manpower center is destroyed from starvation, but it is not guaranteed. I think it also has to do with the size of the city. That is the larger the number of manpower centers, the greater the chance that 1 will be destroyed via starvation when at 100% damage.

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RE: Is production from isolated cities working as inten... - 2/13/2012 6:01:40 PM   
wdkruger

 

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Joel:

I let the game go several turns (human vs. human, no moves after initial isolation), and I can assure you that there was 0 damage to the manpower center in the city. It does not seem like this feature is working as described.

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RE: Is production from isolated cities working as inten... - 2/13/2012 6:23:43 PM   
Helpless


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quote:

I will point out that Armament production requires supplies not resources


I made one step back, since there should be no way how supplies could be shipped to the isolated city. In your example they could get in there by HI production.

I found the bug in starvation code, so it may not get kick in correctly. Will fix it. Thanks for the report.

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RE: Is production from isolated cities working as inten... - 2/15/2012 2:22:23 PM   
wdkruger

 

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Pavel;

Just downloaded the 1.063 patch and tried my test scenario for city isolation on manpower. Still does not seem to be working. After several turns isolated city still has 0 damage in manpower.

Warren

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Post #: 10
RE: Is production from isolated cities working as inten... - 2/15/2012 4:16:51 PM   
Helpless


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Do you have enemy (German) unit within 5 hexes? If yes, starvation won't get triggered.

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Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW Development

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Post #: 11
RE: Is production from isolated cities working as inten... - 2/15/2012 4:32:43 PM   
wdkruger

 

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Yes, I do have a german unit within 5 hexes. According to the rule, starvation should be triggered under those conditions.

quote:

Town, city and urban hexes will only take starvation damage if a supplied enemy unit is within four hexes of the hex.

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Post #: 12
RE: Is production from isolated cities working as inten... - 2/15/2012 4:43:22 PM   
Helpless


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quote:

According to the rule, starvation should be triggered under those conditions.


I think initially there was quite big discrepancy between how the starvation code was written and the way it was described in manual. As I can read the code the intention was to starve cities which get cut off from the rail line and are far away from the front.

I agree that current state is not logical and probably it should get fixed to match the manual.

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Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW Development

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Post #: 13
RE: Is production from isolated cities working as inten... - 2/15/2012 5:45:22 PM   
wdkruger

 

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I agree, probably should be changed to agree with written rules. While I am not a programmer, seems like it would be a simple thing to change.

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Post #: 14
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