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To ditch XP or not?

 
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[Poll]

To ditch XP or not?


Ditch support for XP
  79% (71)
Retain support for XP
  20% (18)


Total Votes : 89
(last vote on : 2/22/2012 3:20:39 PM)
(Poll ended: 2/25/2012 7:00:00 AM)
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To ditch XP or not? - 2/11/2012 3:28:12 AM   
Arjuna


Posts: 17488
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Canberra, Australia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

We are considering options for the future. We would like to improve the user interface with such things as transparent map overlays and dynamic text fields that support multiple font sizes. To do so while supporting Windows XP would require a major rewrite of the UI - basically ditching our existing UI based on MFC. This is not an attractive or economically viable option for us. Alternately, we can take advantage of the many new features now supported in the latest version of MFC but these do not work under Windows XP. If we were to go this route then it probably would not manifest for at least a year or two.

So would you be in favour of ditching support for Windows XP?



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www.panthergames.com
Post #: 1
RE: To ditch XP or not? - 2/11/2012 4:37:54 AM   
ZoomBoy27


Posts: 75
Joined: 8/13/2001
From: Vancouver BC Canada
Status: offline 		Currently use Windows7

quote:

This is not an attractive or economically viable option for us.

This doesn't leave much room for change unless you can go without revenue for that extra time
Some Matrix developers see this more as a part-time job. I do not know enough to make that decision. These are internal questions

When I currently play on 1920x1080, the fonts are teeny tiny - is this a major concern for the XP Exit and to others in your customer base?
If ditching XP cannot be done economically, can the UI and art-work be re-worked - or even better - re-imagined by a professional designer or artist?
Maybe by just accepting a maximum size of 1600x900 and maximizing UI effort at that level, you'll have a more polished final product.

(in reply to Arjuna)
Post #: 2
RE: To ditch XP or not? - 2/11/2012 4:57:34 AM   
Arjuna


Posts: 17488
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Canberra, Australia
Status: offline 		To support larger fonts without dynamic dialog support you would have to increase the minimum screen size from the current 1024 x 768 or dominate the scren with the side bar at the expense of the battlemap. i don't think the latter is a good option and the former one would disenfranchise a lot of notebook customers.

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www.panthergames.com

(in reply to ZoomBoy27)
Post #: 3
RE: To ditch XP or not? - 2/11/2012 7:30:41 AM   
Joe 98


Posts: 4002
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Wollondilly, Sydney
Status: offline 		I vote for ditching XP

All the games to date run on XP.

It just means that future games will not.

.





(in reply to Arjuna)
Post #: 4
RE: To ditch XP or not? - 2/11/2012 7:46:52 AM   
Tony_A

 

Posts: 116
Joined: 2/7/2008
From: Arlington, TX
Status: offline 		Voted to ditch support.

I'd rather you didn't cripple your product in order to support an OS that most people have already moved on from.

FWIW I say "most people" as the latest Steam survey shows XP (adding both 32 and 64-bit versions) as a little over 18% of its installed base.

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

...then it probably would not manifest for at least a year or two....



^ Especially as you're talking about 2013-14.

(in reply to Arjuna)
Post #: 5
RE: To ditch XP or not? - 2/11/2012 1:12:34 PM   
phoenix

 

Posts: 1567
Joined: 9/28/2010
Status: online 		XP was a long time ago. I don't think Microsoft supports it any longer...

< Message edited by phoenix -- 2/11/2012 1:14:38 PM >

(in reply to Tony_A)
Post #: 6
RE: To ditch XP or not? - 2/11/2012 1:22:52 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 22313
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

Currently in the world about 50% of all MS Operating Systems are still Windows XP...

I still use it at home (WinXP SP3) - at work I use Windows Vista - on my laptop I have Windows 7...


Leo "Apollo11"

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Post #: 7
RE: To ditch XP or not? - 2/11/2012 4:25:00 PM   
oldspec4

 

Posts: 677
Joined: 11/1/2004
Status: offline 		Gotta go with Win 7 here.

(in reply to Arjuna)
Post #: 8
RE: To ditch XP or not? - 2/11/2012 4:35:50 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12867
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

Currently in the world about 50% of all MS Operating Systems are still Windows XP...

I still use it at home (WinXP SP3) - at work I use Windows Vista - on my laptop I have Windows 7...


Leo "Apollo11"


I'll guess that a lot of that 50% is businesses that don't want to spend the money for new OS and any training plus legacy software that won't work with 7.

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Post #: 9
RE: To ditch XP or not? - 2/11/2012 5:51:03 PM   
vsadek


Posts: 104
Joined: 1/3/2010
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		According to MS, support for Win XP(SP3) is until April 8, 2014.

@junk2drive

Yes, you are right. I work in such a company with 250+ desktops still running on XP(SP3) and at the moment they just don’t want to spend any money and legacy software is greatest concern.

(in reply to junk2drive)
Post #: 10
RE: To ditch XP or not? - 2/11/2012 5:59:50 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12867
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		One might think that in a year or two, someone that can afford an $80-100 game would have a newer computer that came with 7 installed. But you never know what a groggy core group of fans will surprise you with. They might have paid extra to have 7 replaced with XP.

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Post #: 11
RE: To ditch XP or not? - 2/11/2012 8:34:26 PM   
wodin


Posts: 7639
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: online 		All OS have there day and I feel it's time to say good bye to XP. I don't want an old OS holding back development to be honest. When Win8 arrives you'll be able to get Win 7 cheap, plus it's a damn fine OS.

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Post #: 12
RE: To ditch XP or not? - 2/11/2012 8:37:15 PM   
wodin


Posts: 7639
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: ZoomBoy27

Currently use Windows7

quote:

This is not an attractive or economically viable option for us.

This doesn't leave much room for change unless you can go without revenue for that extra time
Some Matrix developers see this more as a part-time job. I do not know enough to make that decision. These are internal questions

When I currently play on 1920x1080, the fonts are teeny tiny - is this a major concern for the XP Exit and to others in your customer base?
If ditching XP cannot be done economically, can the UI and art-work be re-worked - or even better - re-imagined by a professional designer or artist?
Maybe by just accepting a maximum size of 1600x900 and maximizing UI effort at that level, you'll have a more polished final product.


Arjuna said it wouldn't be viable supporting XP not the other way around.

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Post #: 13
RE: To ditch XP or not? - 2/11/2012 11:33:48 PM   
springel

 

Posts: 78
Joined: 1/2/2005
From: Groningen, the Netherlands
Status: offline 		I am running XP, and I plan to keep using it for at least another year, but probably till the end of the support period.

So you would lose me as a customer for some time (but maybe it will take that time to come up with a new product?)



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Post #: 14
RE: To ditch XP or not? - 2/11/2012 11:44:42 PM   
Deathtreader


Posts: 685
Joined: 4/22/2003
From: Vancouver, Canada.
Status: offline 		Hi,

About XP all I can say is HASTA LA VISTA BABY!!

Win 7 all the way.............

Rob.



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Post #: 15
RE: To ditch XP or not? - 2/11/2012 11:51:52 PM   
wodin


Posts: 7639
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: springel

I am running XP, and I plan to keep using it for at least another year, but probably till the end of the support period.

So you would lose me as a customer for some time (but maybe it will take that time to come up with a new product?)






Well your planning to update in a year and I don't think the new game will be out in a years time anyway.

So you'll be fine. Surely you can see it would be holding back the series if they kept XP support up?

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Post #: 16
RE: To ditch XP or not? - 2/12/2012 1:09:58 AM   
rosseau

 

Posts: 956
Joined: 9/13/2009
Status: offline 		This is probably an issue that goes far beyond Command Ops, with other devs thinking the same thing. I have stuck with XP because of all the problems I read about years ago with the newer operating systems. And it has served me well. So when everyone goes to Win 7, I just need to buy a second computer when there's enough games worth playing on it. For now, I have too many as it is.

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 17
RE: To ditch XP or not? - 2/12/2012 2:56:24 AM   
wodin


Posts: 7639
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: online 		Win7 is the best OS MS have made (well as good as XP was in it's day). WIn8 looks pretty poor though, that is one upgrade I'm staying away from.

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Post #: 18
RE: To ditch XP or not? - 2/12/2012 5:05:04 AM   
GoodGuy

 

Posts: 1501
Joined: 5/17/2006
From: Cologne, Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

To support larger fonts without dynamic dialog support you would have to increase the minimum screen size from the current 1024 x 768 or dominate the scren with the side bar at the expense of the battlemap. i don't think the latter is a good option and the former one would disenfranchise a lot of notebook customers.


Most notebooks these days have widescreen displays. Looking at the current poll result (not representative tho), I'd say it would be wiser to increase the minumum size, especially since many of the remaining CRTs (and 4:3 TFTs) still in use are either ending up on the junkyards these days or will get there pretty soon.

My excellent EIZO F56 17" CRT, which I bought in 1996, died in Summer 2010 (!). I'd consider this to be a miracle, being used daily for 14 years, crystal clear image with no loss of visual quality (just had to raise the brightness lvl some more, as it got darker on norm. settings), if I wouldn't have heard about a number of EIZO F56 CRTs at SHELL Germany, being used for some 10 yrs in 2008 (still there afaik, used 24/7 by their IT dep.).

But I'd consider this kinda quality and longevity to be rare. Most CRTs will be gone. Even many old notebooks have native resolutions of around 1100 something (so above 1024) and/or higher. My Lenovo IdeaPad S10 netbook has a native res of 1024x600, a widescreen resolution, so the netbook would produce blurry fonts under 1024x768 anyway, IF that particular widescreen format is not supported. Newer IdeaPads have native resolutions of 1440 x something, afaik.

Even older Notebooks, say like my IBM ThinkPad T30 (from 2002 or 2003?) with 1400 x 1050, have higher native resolutions.
I don't think you'd loose a lot of notebook customers.

I voted "no" (don't ditch XP), as I have to stick with XP on the netbook and on at least 1 of my laptops, for at least 1 or 2 yrs (job, college).

< Message edited by GoodGuy -- 2/12/2012 5:26:17 AM >

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Post #: 19
RE: To ditch XP or not? - 2/12/2012 5:43:45 AM   
Nick Schieben

 

Posts: 107
Joined: 11/18/2006
From: Canada
Status: offline 		I vote YES - ditch it. Let's move forward, and not got bogged down supporting the legacy stuff.

Regards

(in reply to ZoomBoy27)
Post #: 20
RE: To ditch XP or not? - 2/12/2012 2:07:04 PM   
AndrewKurtz

 

Posts: 524
Joined: 9/20/2006
From: Greenville, SC
Status: offline 		Agree. Corporations may choose not to upgrade, but I don't play this game on my company computer.

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Post #: 21
RE: To ditch XP or not? - 2/12/2012 2:41:16 PM   
wodin


Posts: 7639
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: online 		Everyone needs to think of the future not just one or maybe two years away. Lets not forget the next title is at least a year away. So why restrict the game so people can play it for what maybe a year on their net books etc. Really doesn't make sense to me. Fair enough if we where talking five years or something but 1 or 2 and the next game not likely to be here for another year anyway?

Come on lets think of the future for this series and give it all the extra leg room it needs.

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Post #: 22
RE: To ditch XP or not? - 2/12/2012 5:10:37 PM   
Grim.Reaper


Posts: 1109
Joined: 12/31/2009
Status: offline 		I haven't used XP in years, so I have no issue with not supporting it. Of course people that own XP might have a different opinion:)

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Post #: 23
RE: To ditch XP or not? - 2/12/2012 7:22:11 PM   
Hertston


Posts: 3419
Joined: 8/17/2002
From: Cornwall, UK
Status: offline 		Ditch it. No doubt some players are still XP but now MS themselves are ending support I don't think it's reasonable to lumber others with the disadvantages of continuing to support it. It's coming to the end of it's life-cycle; end-of. A good O/S, but it's had a good run.

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Post #: 24
RE: To ditch XP or not? - 2/12/2012 8:40:30 PM   
JW

 

Posts: 1015
Joined: 8/12/2000
From: Monroe, LA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Win7 is the best OS MS have made (well as good as XP was in it's day). WIn8 looks pretty poor though, that is one upgrade I'm staying away from.


MS seems to screw up every other new OS, to the point where I have begun to wonder if it is deliberate.

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Post #: 25
RE: To ditch XP or not? - 2/12/2012 9:20:52 PM   
Prince of Eckmühl


Posts: 2449
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		It's time to let the old girl die.

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Post #: 26
RE: To ditch XP or not? - 2/13/2012 10:20:21 AM   
RangerX3X


Posts: 297
Joined: 11/21/2007
From: Jacksonville, FL USA
Status: offline 		XP is still supported by MS and will be through 2014 (SP3). Personally, I have no intention to upgrade my rig and OS until Windows 8 is released (not 7, 8).

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Post #: 27
RE: To ditch XP or not? - 2/13/2012 3:24:37 PM   
wodin


Posts: 7639
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: online 		Win8 seems very dumbed down for me, trying to give it a mobile type interface. Fine if you have a touch screen. Win 7 I know I can rely on.

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Post #: 28
RE: To ditch XP or not? - 2/13/2012 3:41:25 PM   
AndrewKurtz

 

Posts: 524
Joined: 9/20/2006
From: Greenville, SC
Status: offline 		I believe Win8 has the metro interface as an option.

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Post #: 29
RE: To ditch XP or not? - 2/13/2012 6:45:20 PM   
Peter Fisla


Posts: 784
Joined: 10/5/2001
From: Canada
Status: offline 		I have been very happy with Win7 64bit ever since the OS came out in 2009, I voted to ditch XP and move on. Win7 runs all my XP games even good old Close Combat 1 (once I modded the install). Win7 will be with me for a lont time as I don't like the direction Win8 is heading.

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Post #: 30
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