Matrix Games Forums

New Screenshots for Pike & ShotDeal of the Week Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations WOTYCommand: Modern Air/Naval Operations WOTY is now available!Frontline : The Longest Day Announced and in Beta!Command gets Wargame of the Year EditionDeal of the Week: Pandora SeriesPandora: Eclipse of Nashira is now availableDistant Worlds Gets another updateHell is Approaching Deal of the Week Battle Academy
Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Drop ASL/WiF to dive in WitP-AE

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Drop ASL/WiF to dive in WitP-AE Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Drop ASL/WiF to dive in WitP-AE - 2/7/2012 8:42:40 PM   
Blind Sniper


Posts: 760
Joined: 8/9/2008
From: Turin, Italy
Status: offline
Hello folks,

Advanced Squad Leader, World in Flames and War in the Pacific AE even if different have all a thing in common, they are a second job, wonderful but still very time consuming.

I'm just wondering if someone drop to play ASL/WiF for WitP, forced for time constrain to choice only a game, and if so why.

Personally I know one guy that left WitP for ASL (I played with him a small scenario) but not the opposite.

Btw, I'm an ASL player that every so often come back to WitP but never have found enough time to play this game as should deserve.

_____________________________

Advanced Squad Leader; Grand Tactical Series; Buzz Aldrin's Space Program Manager; War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition

Post #: 1
RE: Drop ASL/WiF to dive in WitP-AE - 2/7/2012 9:16:57 PM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4567
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline
I cannot tell about ASL/WiF because I never tried them. But I have quite a list of games with either tactical or strategic
- mostly WWII - background I dropped for WitP AE, and tbh I doubt I would ever make a different choice.

Leaves not enough time for HOI III FTM, Distant Worlds and some others I regard as in the same league with my favourite game - in their own way,
but WitP simply is the Queen of strategy. And noone drops the Queen.

_____________________________

S**t happens in war.

All hail the superior ones!

(in reply to Blind Sniper)
Post #: 2
RE: Drop ASL/WiF to dive in WitP-AE - 2/7/2012 9:27:03 PM   
Andav

 

Posts: 180
Joined: 5/8/2007
Status: offline

I am the other extreme I guess. I am fortunate to have a 2x2 where I am partnered with my ASL buddy against witpqs and Wobbly. I also have another DBBs CG going against witpqs.

As for ASL, one day during the week we play with a group of 6 and one weekend a month we play ASL with the city wide group. Yes I also have a wife, a couple of teenage boys and a full time job. Come to think of it, maybe that is why I play ASL AND AE!

Wa

(in reply to LoBaron)
Post #: 3
RE: Drop ASL/WiF to dive in WitP-AE - 2/7/2012 9:43:40 PM   
fcharton

 

Posts: 951
Joined: 10/4/2010
From: Nemours, France
Status: offline
Hi,

I'm not sure ASL is a good comparison, since it models a different scale (and with shorter playing times). But World in Flame, Europa, or even VG Pacific War, work on similar levels as WITP/AE

I see three reasons why I play WITP. First, I don't need a special room, cat and kid free, to set the game for several months, and I can play anywhere, anytime, so long I have my laptop with me. Second, I don't think I could handle that level of detail in a wargame. In terms of number of units and map size, WITP is on par with the largest wargames ever done, which would usually only be played by teams (I mean those huge 4 maps 2000 counter things). Third, the machine actually handles a lot of details which get boring in complex wargames, ie all the table lookup, die rolls, bookkeeping.

On the other hand, when playing WITP there are several things which make me regret paper wargames. First, the game has lots of hidden parts. One of the charms of wargames is that all the system is here for everyone to ponder. In WITP, you can try to guess what the machine does, what the actual rules are, but it is only guessworks. Second, the best wargames design have a form of elegance which is lacking in AE. No offense meant, it is just that computer games tend to be calculation intensive, whereas paper wargames will resort to abstraction to keep playable, and this sometimes lead to very elegant ideas. Third, to me at least, it is much more fun to spend 3 hours playing a turn looking at a map, rolling dice, and pushing counters, than clicking and mousing over a screen...

This said, I mostly play AE these days, and my wargames are collecting dust until I have time to play them again.

Francois

< Message edited by fcharton -- 2/7/2012 9:46:58 PM >

(in reply to LoBaron)
Post #: 4
RE: Drop ASL/WiF to dive in WitP-AE - 2/7/2012 10:16:23 PM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 8092
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline
I got the whole ASL system before Avalon Hill got gobbled up by the toy empire.  I used to play a lot, but haven't touched it in more than 20 years now. 

I was an avid cardboard counter player in my teens, but I've lacked opponents since then and I'm too lazy to play by mail.  I'm also not sure how the mate would think about having a game set up for months at a time, though she's generally pretty tolerant of my eccentricities (she's got her own, so it's a glass house kind of thing).

Bill


_____________________________

WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer

(in reply to fcharton)
Post #: 5
RE: Drop ASL/WiF to dive in WitP-AE - 2/7/2012 10:46:01 PM   
SqzMyLemon


Posts: 2891
Joined: 10/30/2009
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline
I think a good Avalon Hill game that could be comparable to this kind of scope would be "Rise and Fall of the 3rd Reich." I was an avid boardgamer too in my teens and 20's. I miss moving the counters around and dice rolling, but I certainly don't miss the tabulation of odds and combat modifiers and such.

I think the biggest sacrifice I've made with playing WitP AE is to my model building hobby. I can always find time to play WitP AE, or some Combat Mission or any other number of computer games, but the evenings spent working on a model are almost a thing of the past. I can get so caught up in finishing a turn that the next thing I know it's time for bed or my eyes are too tired.

My boardgames sit collecting dust in a closet. Every now and then I think of pulling one out, re-reading the rules and calling my buddy up to play, but then WitP AE calls my name and I'm sucked in once again.

_____________________________

Luck is the residue of design - John Milton

Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)

(in reply to wdolson)
Post #: 6
RE: Drop ASL/WiF to dive in WitP-AE - 2/7/2012 10:47:08 PM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8251
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline
I would love to have a monthly ASL get-together - or even just two to four times a year. Unfortunately, none of my local friends are into it and so my ASL collection (I had purchased the whole system, but not the deluxe scenarios) has at unattended for the last fifteen-twenty years.

WITP-AE covers my favorite military campaign and has the wonderful advantage of being quick to set up and take down so that it doesn't occupy needed household space for years at a time. Besides that, it is the best "grand operational" level game I have ever played...

_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to wdolson)
Post #: 7
RE: Drop ASL/WiF to dive in WitP-AE - 2/8/2012 1:00:25 AM   
Empire101


Posts: 1957
Joined: 5/20/2008
From: Coruscant
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: fcharton

Hi,

I'm not sure ASL is a good comparison, since it models a different scale (and with shorter playing times). But World in Flame, Europa, or even VG Pacific War, work on similar levels as WITP/AE

I see three reasons why I play WITP. First, I don't need a special room, cat and kid free, to set the game for several months, and I can play anywhere, anytime, so long I have my laptop with me. Second, I don't think I could handle that level of detail in a wargame. In terms of number of units and map size, WITP is on par with the largest wargames ever done, which would usually only be played by teams (I mean those huge 4 maps 2000 counter things). Third, the machine actually handles a lot of details which get boring in complex wargames, ie all the table lookup, die rolls, bookkeeping.


I agree. I was a big SPI War In Europe and ADG World in Flames player, but these games required a room in the house/flat to be taken out of commission for months if not years on end, and although my regular opponent was as nutty as me about them, circumstance's/ jobs/ moving around the country etc eventually ( after about 15 years ) conspired to stop us playing, although we are still in touch.

quote:


On the other hand, when playing WITP there are several things which make me regret paper wargames. First, the game has lots of hidden parts. One of the charms of wargames is that all the system is here for everyone to ponder. In WITP, you can try to guess what the machine does, what the actual rules are, but it is only guessworks. Second, the best wargames design have a form of elegance which is lacking in AE. No offense meant, it is just that computer games tend to be calculation intensive, whereas paper wargames will resort to abstraction to keep playable, and this sometimes lead to very elegant ideas. Third, to me at least, it is much more fun to spend 3 hours playing a turn looking at a map, rolling dice, and pushing counters, than clicking and mousing over a screen...

This said, I mostly play AE these days, and my wargames are collecting dust until I have time to play them again.

Francois


One of the admirable things that computers offer us is a very real sense of the Fog of War, so I'm not so bothered about the 'hidden parts' thing, and to some degree it stops ( almost) some particular types of players analysing the hell out of the rules to bend the game to their advantage.

With regard to the last section of your quote I could'nt agree more. Paper and table wargames do lead to some fantastic and elegant ideas and strategies. And the social aspect of the paper wargames cannot be ignored either, I mean, what is better, than after 10 hours of battering each other round the head with baseball bats,
( metaphorically speaking of course ), you go down the pub and drown your sorrows, or bath in the glow of victory together .

But all said and done, I just cannot put WitP AE down. Its myriad of strategies, deployment, FOW and absolutely nail biting tension almost every combat phase cannot be beaten.

Huzzah for AE, that what I say.


_____________________________

Our lives may be more boring than those who lived in apocalyptic times,
but being bored is greatly preferable to being prematurely dead because of some ideological fantasy.
- Michael Burleigh


(in reply to fcharton)
Post #: 8
RE: Drop ASL/WiF to dive in WitP-AE - 2/8/2012 1:52:25 AM   
oldman45


Posts: 2261
Joined: 5/1/2005
From: Jacksonville Fl
Status: offline
The only thing I miss about the board and table top games is the face to face interactions. I have some fond memories of the times in by pals garage playing with the "toy soldiers" as my better half liked to call them. Of the giant board games we had a group that met once a week to do some turns but in the end, the paper work just took the fun out of them. Playing AE is good because I can have a monster game, play it when I want, and all I need is a note pad if I feel like it.

_____________________________


(in reply to Empire101)
Post #: 9
RE: Drop ASL/WiF to dive in WitP-AE - 2/8/2012 2:21:12 AM   
nashvillen


Posts: 2803
Joined: 7/3/2006
From: Christiana, TN
Status: online
I play Federation and Empire. It is a strategic level game, although a fictional setting, but some of the same things, economic management, moving of fleets around, etc. I know several here that also play. We are getting 20-25 of us together in late June in Cincy for a mini-con that is going to last eight days. This is due to the movement of Origins to a time period we cannot do. So, short answer is that yes, you can find time outside of WITP:AE to do other things difficult as it is...

My wife sometimes thinks I am spending too much time on the computer, but she likes to have her alone time after work also. The computer is in a public area of the home so, I do interact with my family to some extent...

Now, some of the guys in F&E think I am not paying enough attention to their needs and I do need to spend more time with that... Then there is my model railroad hobby...

_____________________________


(in reply to oldman45)
Post #: 10
RE: Drop ASL/WiF to dive in WitP-AE - 2/8/2012 3:10:19 AM   
crsutton


Posts: 7182
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline
I went to ASL Winter Offensive in my native Maryland a few weeks ago. It is still the best game ever made. That said, I spend most of my time playing AE these days-the best game ever made for computer. ASL is the only board game that I still play after 40 years of gaming. And, I don't play it enough these days. The real problem is that it is an aging hobby and most all of the players are getting fairly old. Younger players are on the computer. Of the two games, ASL is definitely the hardest to master. AE is just as complex but the computer does so much for you.

I love them both.

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to nashvillen)
Post #: 11
RE: Drop ASL/WiF to dive in WitP-AE - 2/8/2012 5:09:52 AM   
rjopel

 

Posts: 582
Joined: 12/19/2007
From: Peterborough, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: nashvillen

I play Federation and Empire. It is a strategic level game, although a fictional setting, but some of the same things, economic management, moving of fleets around, etc. I know several here that also play. We are getting 20-25 of us together in late June in Cincy for a mini-con that is going to last eight days. This is due to the movement of Origins to a time period we cannot do. So, short answer is that yes, you can find time outside of WITP:AE to do other things difficult as it is...

My wife sometimes thinks I am spending too much time on the computer, but she likes to have her alone time after work also. The computer is in a public area of the home so, I do interact with my family to some extent...

Now, some of the guys in F&E think I am not paying enough attention to their needs and I do need to spend more time with that... Then there is my model railroad hobby...



I get on his case for both not getting his WITP:AE turn done in our game and not answering my questions in F&E.

(in reply to nashvillen)
Post #: 12
RE: Drop ASL/WiF to dive in WitP-AE - 2/8/2012 6:00:27 AM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4567
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: oldman45

The only thing I miss about the board and table top games is the face to face interactions. I have some
fond memories of the times in by pals garage playing with the "toy soldiers" as my better half liked to
call them.


I never played board wargames more complex than Shogun sadly (don´t know, maybe its even the grandfather
of todays computer game), as most of my friends were not into strategy games , but I fully agree! I miss the
special atmosphere of those evenings, this is difficult to top with something on a screen. I don´t know if
its the suiting word in English, it felt a bit "ceremonial" in a good way.


< Message edited by LoBaron -- 2/8/2012 6:01:39 AM >


_____________________________

S**t happens in war.

All hail the superior ones!

(in reply to oldman45)
Post #: 13
RE: Drop ASL/WiF to dive in WitP-AE - 2/8/2012 1:05:55 PM   
oldman45


Posts: 2261
Joined: 5/1/2005
From: Jacksonville Fl
Status: offline
The Axis and Allies, Shogun, those were "beer and pretzel" night games and were always so much fun. I am glad you brought that up LoBaron.

_____________________________


(in reply to LoBaron)
Post #: 14
RE: Drop ASL/WiF to dive in WitP-AE - 2/8/2012 1:42:49 PM   
Blind Sniper


Posts: 760
Joined: 8/9/2008
From: Turin, Italy
Status: offline
LoBaron: surely play face to face has a particular feeling, is more funny for me.
Anyhow do you only play WitP?

Andav: you lucky bastard!
My regular FtF opponent is MIA but thanks to meeting/tournaments I can still move counters around the map.

Francois: I did not want to make any comparison, I just named the best WWII games per genre (IMHO of course).
I agree with your comments especially the last one, nothing is better that rolling dice in a beautiful dicetower, but you spent more time in AE than other boardgames and I understand very well your reasons as well.
I have an internal conflict, I really want to play both but I'm not able to do that, one will be relegate...

Bill: if you want to play ASL you can use VASL, in fact without this software I would play very few games in a year.
My sweetheart is very tolerant too but sometimes she is not so sweet , anyhow I think to be a lucky man, not easy live with a wargamer.

SqzMyLemon: you were a boardgamer too, why are you a WitP player?

Brad: VASL is your solution if you want to play again ASL, but 2-4 games in a year are very very few to keep the "knowledge" of the game, I think.
About WitP I agree completely, therefore I have this dilemma.

Empire101: you are right, WiF is more difficult to handle respect ASL, I know a regular group that lock a room playing it for a whole year.
Anyhow you are a WitP addicted

Oldman45: so true, social interactions are very important also for geek like us.

Nashvillen: I tryed to play SFB, another beautiful game that requires a lot of time to master.

Crsutton: I think exactly the same thing, therefore I'm so wavering...though decision...

_____________________________

Advanced Squad Leader; Grand Tactical Series; Buzz Aldrin's Space Program Manager; War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition


(in reply to LoBaron)
Post #: 15
RE: Drop ASL/WiF to dive in WitP-AE - 2/8/2012 2:20:47 PM   
nashvillen


Posts: 2803
Joined: 7/3/2006
From: Christiana, TN
Status: online
Also, I played ASL when it wasn't ASL and just Squad Leader. I was so excited when Cross of Iron came out with all the AFVs. I sold all that off years ago before MMP took over, but still keep an ASL rulebook up to date. I also have quite a few of the other MMP publications. They are a good game company.

_____________________________


(in reply to Blind Sniper)
Post #: 16
RE: Drop ASL/WiF to dive in WitP-AE - 2/8/2012 2:24:17 PM   
jeffk3510


Posts: 4015
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Kansas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

quote:

ORIGINAL: oldman45

The only thing I miss about the board and table top games is the face to face interactions. I have some
fond memories of the times in by pals garage playing with the "toy soldiers" as my better half liked to
call them.


I never played board wargames more complex than Shogun sadly (don´t know, maybe its even the grandfather
of todays computer game), as most of my friends were not into strategy games , but I fully agree! I miss the
special atmosphere of those evenings, this is difficult to top with something on a screen. I don´t know if
its the suiting word in English, it felt a bit "ceremonial" in a good way.



I agree with you 100%.

I play Europa Universalis HTTT with my brother on multiplayer and it is very enjoyable, and we live in the same town hahaha.. just not enough space and time to dedicate a room to a board game anymore..

_____________________________

Follow our WiTPAE team PBEM game against bilbow and hartwig.modrow http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2965846&mpage=1&key=?

Follow my WITPAE PBEM game against Schanilec. http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3495605

(in reply to LoBaron)
Post #: 17
RE: Drop ASL/WiF to dive in WitP-AE - 2/8/2012 2:35:03 PM   
Blind Sniper


Posts: 760
Joined: 8/9/2008
From: Turin, Italy
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: nashvillen

Also, I played ASL when it wasn't ASL and just Squad Leader. I was so excited when Cross of Iron came out with all the AFVs. I sold all that off years ago before MMP took over, but still keep an ASL rulebook up to date. I also have quite a few of the other MMP publications. They are a good game company.


Never played SL but I understand what you mean. MMP is good, as operational games it sells the Operational Combat System (The Gamer's), a very good one.

_____________________________

Advanced Squad Leader; Grand Tactical Series; Buzz Aldrin's Space Program Manager; War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition


(in reply to nashvillen)
Post #: 18
RE: Drop ASL/WiF to dive in WitP-AE - 2/8/2012 2:42:38 PM   
Blind Sniper


Posts: 760
Joined: 8/9/2008
From: Turin, Italy
Status: offline
ASL vs WitP

Several comments reading this thread and personal opinions.

ASL
Pros:
you exactly know how the game works
rolling dice and pushing counters
social interactions
very complex and challenging game
complete, you can use all nations in every theater of war
you can find player all around the world and usually all are friendly
third party products, sometimes they are better then official ones

Cons:
old game with more older players
the system will never change (good or bad decision is still a static system, no chance to see an evolution)
FOW, no matter wich trick you can use, the player will be always omniscient
you need space (a lot) and to be organized (really tons of stuff)
much much expensive...
you have to study a not so clear rulebook

WitP
Pros:
is enough a pc to play it, with some spreadsheets or another software as support
very complex and challenging game
"only" PTO
continuous improvements
strong community
money spent : hours played = absolutely a bargain
FOW very satisfactory

Cons:
sometimes you don't know how the game works
lack human interactions
difficult to learn because there are obscure areas that no one know
manual not complete, you have to examine this forum

I feel like a woman in front of a shop-window during seasonal sale, I can't decide...I want it all!


Alessandro

< Message edited by Blind Sniper -- 2/8/2012 2:43:48 PM >


_____________________________

Advanced Squad Leader; Grand Tactical Series; Buzz Aldrin's Space Program Manager; War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition


(in reply to Blind Sniper)
Post #: 19
RE: Drop ASL/WiF to dive in WitP-AE - 2/8/2012 4:16:27 PM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8251
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline
One of the joys with WITP is that I have found a gaming partner who not only has a similar gaming style as I have but also doesn't scream "where's my turn" if I need to take a day or two off. One of my old tabletop gaming buddies form college and I started playing Squad Leader and then BOTR PBEM and he would be very aggressive at demanding turns daily. Right now, ChezDaJez and I are averaging 5.5 turns a week, which is just about perfect.

ASL I would prefer to save for actual tabletop playing. The advantage to it is that the scenarios will generally only take a few hours to play out - you can play a scenario in a single sitting.

_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to Blind Sniper)
Post #: 20
RE: Drop ASL/WiF to dive in WitP-AE - 2/8/2012 7:15:24 PM   
Empire101


Posts: 1957
Joined: 5/20/2008
From: Coruscant
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blind Sniper

WitP
Pros:
is enough a pc to play it, with some spreadsheets or another software as support
very complex and challenging game
"only" PTO
continuous improvements
strong community
money spent : hours played = absolutely a bargain
FOW very satisfactory

Cons:
sometimes you don't know how the game works
lack human interactions
difficult to learn because there are obscure areas that no one know
manual not complete, you have to examine this forum

I feel like a woman in front of a shop-window during seasonal sale, I can't decide...I want it all!


Alessandro


I agree with you wholeheartedly on the pros Blind Sniper ( interesting avatar by the way ).
The cons.... well you maybe right, but this is what the forum is for. Most people on here will answer your question quickly and accurately. The manual could be improved but...
The important thing is there is loads of ongoing support for this marvellous 'game' both from Matrix, and a myriad of skilled and gifted individuals, who enhance, educate us and polish WitP until it shines out from amongst all the others..


_____________________________

Our lives may be more boring than those who lived in apocalyptic times,
but being bored is greatly preferable to being prematurely dead because of some ideological fantasy.
- Michael Burleigh


(in reply to Blind Sniper)
Post #: 21
RE: Drop ASL/WiF to dive in WitP-AE - 2/9/2012 11:00:16 AM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4567
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blind Sniper

LoBaron: surely play face to face has a particular feeling, is more funny for me.
Anyhow do you only play WitP?


Mostly, because of RL time constraints. If I got the time there are a couple of others,
my favourites besides WitP are:

HOI III FTM (it is for sure not the same attempt at historical WWII simulation as WitP, but
it is a nice alternate history approach that gives the player much freedom to rewrite the story
of a random country 1936-1950(?)). I was a huge fan of Europa Universalis series too, which basically
tries the same from around 1450-1800, but I missed the detail level on military actions there.

Distant Worlds Legends - also by matrix games (I always had a weak spot for 4x games, and since the good
old days of Master of Orion this is simply the best there is. I love the automation features and the
really nice AI for a game this scale. The real fun is you can only play a small role in your empire if you
like, and assign everythign else to the AI. Command a single exploration ship or special design, focus
on diplomacy or tech only while leaving the military aspect to the AI and so on.)

Besides that theres always one or the other game that I am interested in for a while, but usually
I default back to the games mentioned above.

These times its so difficult to find people with time and interest in good old board games that I stopped trying
long ago, sadly. As oldman said, those "beer and pretzel" evenings rocked!

_____________________________

S**t happens in war.

All hail the superior ones!

(in reply to Blind Sniper)
Post #: 22
RE: Drop ASL/WiF to dive in WitP-AE - 2/9/2012 3:17:40 PM   
Titanwarrior89


Posts: 3086
Joined: 8/28/2003
From: arkansas
Status: offline
I guess I am one of the lucky ones. I play WitpAE and have a gaming table set up in my game room. I just finish a game of VGs The Pacific War(from Dec 41-Mar 43 short campaign(a draw)) and now have my Roman miniatures set up. Kidds all moved out, no cats except for one good Dog. I leave the game set up as long as I need(board/tabletop miniatures.). And the wife gives me NO problems. Last but not least I just retired.....So as for the hobby of wargaming in the areas that I enjoy, I am one lucky boy.
quote:

ORIGINAL: fcharton

Hi,

I'm not sure ASL is a good comparison, since it models a different scale (and with shorter playing times). But World in Flame, Europa, or even VG Pacific War, work on similar levels as WITP/AE

I see three reasons why I play WITP. First, I don't need a special room, cat and kid free, to set the game for several months, and I can play anywhere, anytime, so long I have my laptop with me. Second, I don't think I could handle that level of detail in a wargame. In terms of number of units and map size, WITP is on par with the largest wargames ever done, which would usually only be played by teams (I mean those huge 4 maps 2000 counter things). Third, the machine actually handles a lot of details which get boring in complex wargames, ie all the table lookup, die rolls, bookkeeping.

On the other hand, when playing WITP there are several things which make me regret paper wargames. First, the game has lots of hidden parts. One of the charms of wargames is that all the system is here for everyone to ponder. In WITP, you can try to guess what the machine does, what the actual rules are, but it is only guessworks. Second, the best wargames design have a form of elegance which is lacking in AE. No offense meant, it is just that computer games tend to be calculation intensive, whereas paper wargames will resort to abstraction to keep playable, and this sometimes lead to very elegant ideas. Third, to me at least, it is much more fun to spend 3 hours playing a turn looking at a map, rolling dice, and pushing counters, than clicking and mousing over a screen...

This said, I mostly play AE these days, and my wargames are collecting dust until I have time to play them again.

Francois



_____________________________

"Before Guadalcanal the enemy advanced at his pleasure. After Guadalcanal, he retreated at ours".

"Mama, There's Rabbits in the Garden"

(in reply to fcharton)
Post #: 23
RE: Drop ASL/WiF to dive in WitP-AE - 2/9/2012 4:32:09 PM   
rev rico

 

Posts: 140
Joined: 5/7/2010
Status: offline
I was an avid ASL player. I had just about every module and expansion, went to Winter Offensive every year, used VASL to play online, and even taught my son to play. About 5 years ago I started playing HPS Panzer Campaigns for a different operational feel and my ASL time suffered. 3 years ago I stopped playing ASL altogether for a variety of reasons - job change, VASL opponents kept on disappearing, easier to boot PC than set up maps & counter. Last year I dove into WITP:AE and now that pretty much dominates my gaming time. I still have all my ASL stuff in a tote right here in my office; even have a few recent mods left unopened. Someday I may dive back in.

Bob

(in reply to Titanwarrior89)
Post #: 24
RE: Drop ASL/WiF to dive in WitP-AE - 2/9/2012 4:52:33 PM   
Blind Sniper


Posts: 760
Joined: 8/9/2008
From: Turin, Italy
Status: offline
Thanks for your answers guys

Titanwarrior89: you are too lucky, please disregard this thread

Rev rico: don't sell your stuff and buy Festung Budabest!

Anyhow I make my own decision...I believe...

_____________________________

Advanced Squad Leader; Grand Tactical Series; Buzz Aldrin's Space Program Manager; War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition


(in reply to rev rico)
Post #: 25
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Drop ASL/WiF to dive in WitP-AE Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.109