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Late War British Aircraft

 
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Late War British Aircraft - 2/7/2012 4:43:25 PM   
Don Bowen


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There is some wonderful artwork for late war aircraft at: http://www.alternatewars.com/Mods/WITP_AE/WITP_AE.htm (Thank you, but the way).

Does anyone have AE specs for these aircraft, especially the ones that would have come into service in 1946??
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RE: Late War British Aircraft - 2/8/2012 3:35:14 PM   
Terminus


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Here's some stuff for you, Don. SWAG warning in effect, as per usual:




Attachment (1)

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RE: Late War British Aircraft - 2/8/2012 3:35:37 PM   
Terminus


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And the Sea Fury:




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RE: Late War British Aircraft - 2/8/2012 3:40:22 PM   
Don Bowen


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Many thanks. I'm working on a scenario (for myself) that runs through 1946...

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RE: Late War British Aircraft - 2/8/2012 3:46:16 PM   
Terminus


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No problem. Let me know if you want anything else.

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RE: Late War British Aircraft - 2/8/2012 3:49:12 PM   
Don Bowen


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Thanks. Let me ask your opinion. If the war had gone on through the end of 1946, what planes would the British have deployed to the Pacific?

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RE: Late War British Aircraft - 2/8/2012 3:52:01 PM   
Terminus


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I actually doubt they would have gone ahead with a great many land-based aircraft. Tiger Force and what-not was a Churchill pet project, and he got kicked out of office in 1945.

But if they did, then we're obviously talking long-range types. The Lanc and Linc, Mossie bomber and NF types. Perhaps a Catalina or two, mainly for ASR.

If the war had continued, we must assume that the British offensive to retake Malaya would have gone ahead too, which would have represented the major commitment for their land-based air.

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RE: Late War British Aircraft - 2/8/2012 3:58:51 PM   
Don Bowen


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Sounds good. I think I've got a good selection. Might need to look at early jets.

Appreciate all the help.

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RE: Late War British Aircraft - 2/8/2012 4:43:39 PM   
Terminus


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I would call a Meteor deployment to our game area HIGHLY unlikely. It didn't do well at airfields of less than European or CONUS standard, and its range was comparatively short.

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RE: Late War British Aircraft - 2/8/2012 5:00:57 PM   
Sardaukar


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I think Hawker Tempest had enough range for Pacific, so might find some of those around in 1945-46.

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RE: Late War British Aircraft - 2/8/2012 5:16:02 PM   
Terminus


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More likely in Malaya.

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RE: Late War British Aircraft - 2/8/2012 5:55:31 PM   
AW1Steve


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What about Vampires? Or SeaVampires? Both were in production (although it had been slowed down and deliberately delayed) the 1st SeaVampire CV landing was Aug. 1945.

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RE: Late War British Aircraft - 2/8/2012 6:31:08 PM   
Dixie


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IMO, Almost certain:

Tempest Mk II
Spitfire Mk XVIII
Spitfire Mk XXI/Mk XXII
Lancaster BI
Lincoln BI

Sea Fury
Hornet
Sea Hornet
Firebrand

Possibilities:
Halifax
Spiteful
Seafang
Brigand


A good guide (IMO) would be to consider what types the Indian and Pakistani air forces started their existence with. Vampires and Venoms are likely to be the only jets deployed (if any), it would have been a struggle to get off the ground in the climate of the Far East with the earliest marks of jet aircraft. The arrival of Tiger Force would possibly bring at least some elements of 100 Group as well, Mosquitos etc. Obviously the newer marks of Spitfires would be sent east if the war continued on.

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RE: Late War British Aircraft - 2/8/2012 7:10:48 PM   
Terminus


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I'd say the sending of high Mark-number Spits would depend on how much of the IJAAF would be faced. The Spit wasn't as good a ground attack plane as the Thunderbolt and the Hurricane.

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RE: Late War British Aircraft - 2/8/2012 7:31:37 PM   
Dixie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

I'd say the sending of high Mark-number Spits would depend on how much of the IJAAF would be faced. The Spit wasn't as good a ground attack plane as the Thunderbolt and the Hurricane.


Indeed not, but would that really stop the RAF from sending them? Spitfires would likely have gone, because we had them, regardless of their actual capabilities in the likely role as fighter bombers.

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RE: Late War British Aircraft - 2/8/2012 8:09:25 PM   
Terminus


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True, but Tempest and Typhoon would also be available in some numbers, both of which could spank the impertinence off a Spitfire...

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RE: Late War British Aircraft - 2/8/2012 8:50:24 PM   
Don Bowen


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I'm too ignorant to be in this conversation. But when it is over, I'd appreciate help with artwork and stats. Getting most extra artwork from the altwars site.

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RE: Late War British Aircraft - 2/8/2012 11:44:39 PM   
Terminus


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Here's a few more:




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RE: Late War British Aircraft - 2/8/2012 11:45:05 PM   
Terminus


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And...




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Post #: 19
RE: Late War British Aircraft - 2/9/2012 1:01:25 AM   
kfsgo

 

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Durability #s seem rather low - keeping existing aircraft as a baseline:

Tempest II is currently a 36; Sea Fury is about the same size/weight, so would go with that in that case.

Firebrand is a pretty large aircraft for being a single off carriers - size and weight-wise it's similar to the Skyraiders etc, so slightly larger and heavier than the 'big' fighters like Corsair, Thunderbolt; those are also mostly 36s, so probably 37-38?

Brigand is a deceptively large aircraft - about the size of a B-25 and a fair bit heavier. Beaufighter is a 38, B-25 is a 42; probably the latter number is sensible given less 'design survivability' but greater mass.

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RE: Late War British Aircraft - 2/9/2012 1:24:17 AM   
Terminus


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It's amusing to compare the stats of the Brigand and the Mitchell, which I should have done first. The British aircraft is indeed larger than the B-25, but able to carry a lot less firepower.

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RE: Late War British Aircraft - 2/9/2012 3:47:29 AM   
YankeeAirRat


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What no Washington B.1s in the list

Actually,

Thinking about it and I still wish I had a copy of what the invasion of Japan would have looked like. The US was going to accept the Tiger Force and the BPF but was looking more help from the Aussies, Canadians and the New Zealanders more. So I think the list would probably look like this:

Firefly Mk IV
MB Mk. 5
Supermarine Spiteful
Supermarine Attacker
Mustang Mk.X
Fairey Spearfish
Short Sturgeon
Short Shetland
Westland Wyvern

I would also hazard that F2G's, F7F's, F8F's, BTM Mauler, BT2D and some other immediate post war US aircraft into RCAF, RAAF, RANAF, RNZAF, RANZAF aircraft as well.

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RE: Late War British Aircraft - 2/9/2012 2:19:18 PM   
Terminus


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The Vampire might be a problem... None of the data I could find covers the Mk I very well; also, as Dixie said, these early jets were not good for tropic climates.

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RE: Late War British Aircraft - 2/9/2012 2:48:14 PM   
Sardaukar


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Vampire Mk. I is not covered well, indeed..but something like barebone stats are here:

http://ww2drawings.jexiste.fr/Files/2-Airplanes/Allies/3-UK/01-Fighters/DeHavilland-DH100Vampire/DH100Vampire-Mk1.htm


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RE: Late War British Aircraft - 2/9/2012 3:17:33 PM   
Terminus


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Also, precious little sense in the USAAF allocating B-29s to the RAF; and the USN/USMC would not be giving their newest types to minor Commonwealth air forces. Not a chance.

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RE: Late War British Aircraft - 2/9/2012 4:59:03 PM   
Dixie


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The RAF would not have got Washingtons during the war.  They were only a stopgap whilst Bomber Command waited for the new jets to enter service, if the Lincoln had had sufficient range then the B-29 would probably not have seen RAF service at all.

As for the jets, the performance figures available would be for 'ideal' conditions above NW Europe for British jets.  It'll be difficult (or impossible) to find figures that pertain to tropical conditions even for later jets.  As a compromise if someone is desperate to see Vampires and Meteors in the game then the max range and load capacities should be reduced to represent the engines struggling to lift the aircraft off the deck.  This would mean that the early marks of jets would have a range of almost 5 yards   IMO, nothing before the MkIV Meteor and the Derwent V would be worth sending out for combat.

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RE: Late War British Aircraft - 2/10/2012 12:29:37 AM   
YankeeAirRat


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I know that the B-29's wouldn't have made it into RAF hands at all during the war. I was just being tongue in cheek.

As to the late war US aircraft making it to Canucks, Kiwis, Ozzies and a few others might have been on the recieving end of a few of the newer US aircraft that were coming out near the end of 45 and into early 46. It was just a suggestion as to possible aircraft and it might be interesting to see an F8F, F7F, F-82, in Canadian or New Zealand color scheme as a what-if.

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RE: Late War British Aircraft - 2/10/2012 4:33:24 PM   
Shark7


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quote:

ORIGINAL: YankeeAirRat

I know that the B-29's wouldn't have made it into RAF hands at all during the war. I was just being tongue in cheek.

As to the late war US aircraft making it to Canucks, Kiwis, Ozzies and a few others might have been on the recieving end of a few of the newer US aircraft that were coming out near the end of 45 and into early 46. It was just a suggestion as to possible aircraft and it might be interesting to see an F8F, F7F, F-82, in Canadian or New Zealand color scheme as a what-if.


But they would likely have been export versions, with older avionics. Sort of like the difference between the Brewster F2A Buffalo and the B.339 Buffalo...same airframe, but the B.339 wasn't quite as good.

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RE: Late War British Aircraft - 2/10/2012 4:54:18 PM   
Terminus


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The US would not allow planes like Bearcat, Tigercat or Super Corsair to go anywhere except frontline USN/USMC squadrons. If anything, they'd give away the planes that were replaced by them, i.e. older model Corsair and Hellcat. The others? Not a chance in hell.

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RE: Late War British Aircraft - 2/10/2012 4:56:00 PM   
Shark7


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

The US would not allow planes like Bearcat, Tigercat or Super Corsair to go anywhere except frontline USN/USMC squadrons. If anything, they'd give away the planes that were replaced by them, i.e. older model Corsair and Hellcat. The others? Not a chance in hell.


Exactly, at best a very stripped down export version, which in truth wouldn't have been as good as the hand me down older aircraft. But cutting edge front line aircraft like the 3 you mentioned, no way they'd even sell an export version (until something newer came along).

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