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Actively disbanding sov units pre nov 41

 
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Actively disbanding sov units pre nov 41 - 2/7/2012 1:44:00 PM   
Walloc

 

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A question i cant seem to find an too answer in manual nor conclusivly by trial and errror. It seems when the sov tank divs convert into bde's. That they still tend to hold on to the excessive vehicles for support purposes-. Some times 1000+ vs the new formed 100-300ish vehicles. If i actively disband those tank bdes to "free" up the surplus vehicles, will those bde come back for free as if they had been destroyed?
Assuming this is done pre nov '41.

TIA,

Rasmus

< Message edited by Walloc -- 2/7/2012 1:45:22 PM >
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RE: Actively disbanding sov units pre nov 41 - 2/7/2012 1:46:37 PM   
Flaviusx


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Nope. Disbanded tank brigades are gone for good.

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(in reply to Walloc)
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RE: Actively disbanding sov units pre nov 41 - 2/7/2012 2:01:56 PM   
Walloc

 

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Thx Flav!

Rasmus

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RE: Actively disbanding sov units pre nov 41 - 2/8/2012 4:20:24 AM   
Farfarer

 

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You have hit upon one of the big conundrums as an aggressive Sov player - what is the risk -reward ratio for all those vehicles ( in beta .60 and beyond).

My 2 cents is oh yeah get your counter attack armies together, but NEVER do anything that could lead to the surrender of a Motorised Inf Divsion, and to a lesser extent a tank division. You are going to destroy 100,000 trucks in the blizzard.

(in reply to Walloc)
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RE: Actively disbanding sov units pre nov 41 - 2/8/2012 7:03:59 AM   
gingerbread


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Keep at most 10 of the at-start Tank Divisions and disband the rest, the sooner the better.

It's a very good lesson to set up an attack in sand-box mode and have a couple of Tank Divisions make an attack on a German Division with an SP Flak attached. You will see the Cavalry Tanks and others cut to pieces and the balloon deflate. After that, you can disband an 8 CV unit knowing you're making the right choice.

You can pick some that got the luck of the draw in the set up, which translates to high morale and at least fair experience for the T-34 slot, and feed the T-34 production to these. They can possibly earn some honour in the 2nd or even 3rd row behind the choice crossing spots on the lower Dnepr. Just don't bet the farm that they will hold...

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RE: Actively disbanding sov units pre nov 41 - 2/8/2012 9:01:24 AM   
randallw

 

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I'm having a little trouble picturing a visual deployment of this just in my head.

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RE: Actively disbanding sov units pre nov 41 - 2/8/2012 9:34:44 AM   
Walloc

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Farfarer

You have hit upon one of the big conundrums as an aggressive Sov player - what is the risk -reward ratio for all those vehicles ( in beta .60 and beyond).

My 2 cents is oh yeah get your counter attack armies together, but NEVER do anything that could lead to the surrender of a Motorised Inf Divsion, and to a lesser extent a tank division. You are going to destroy 100,000 trucks in the blizzard.



quote:

ORIGINAL: gingerbread

Keep at most 10 of the at-start Tank Divisions and disband the rest, the sooner the better.

It's a very good lesson to set up an attack in sand-box mode and have a couple of Tank Divisions make an attack on a German Division with an SP Flak attached. You will see the Cavalry Tanks and others cut to pieces and the balloon deflate. After that, you can disband an 8 CV unit knowing you're making the right choice.

You can pick some that got the luck of the draw in the set up, which translates to high morale and at least fair experience for the T-34 slot, and feed the T-34 production to these. They can possibly earn some honour in the 2nd or even 3rd row behind the choice crossing spots on the lower Dnepr. Just don't bet the farm that they will hold...


My main intend was to save vehicles there for saving as many the tank/mot divs. Especially those 1-2 CV ones that still have 800-1000 vehicles in em. First thot was just to disband em as to release the vehicle and if its 1-2 CV divs not like u can use them for any meningful counter attacks later on. My assumtion was they'd come back that way as new free divs/bde's. My testing made me question that tho. Hench my question.

There is a bit more too it than that tho. First off its not a particular problem for the mot divs it seems. When they convert into rifle divs they dont have any more vehicles than normal rifle divs after that. My assumtion is that the surpluse vehicles goes to the pool as if i had disbanded em.

For the tank divs some seem to hold on to its vehicles after the convert into bde even after doing the oct '41 OOB change, plus not all divs are converted by then in my experience.

No problem u just disband em. Ok, but if u dont get em back for free u essentially just lost quite a few APs. One thing u in constand need of so any way to conserve em is good. Lets say its 10 mot divs and 10 tank div/bde u just lost 150 AP worth of free divs/bde's.

Way around that is simple for mot divs. U just drive/rail em back to where ever wait for em to covert into rifle divs. Vehicles and AP both saved.
Problem is the tank divs. Even if u drive em back where ever and wait for convertions u dont get those vehicles free'ed and if u start using 1000 vehicle tank bde as combat units, u can just write off those vehicles. So not really an option as the whole point of the excercise is to save the vehicles.
Next idea was is to drive those particular bde's way back and wait for tank corps to be formed. Form the first ones from those particular bde.

Just seem a bit much to do for some thing that prolly should have happened by it self. I mean when the tank divs convert into bde they should release the surpluse vehicle as the mot divs does.

Just a few thots,

Rasmus

< Message edited by Walloc -- 2/8/2012 9:36:47 AM >

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RE: Actively disbanding sov units pre nov 41 - 2/8/2012 10:34:27 AM   
Flaviusx


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What you could do with these overstrength tank brigades is this: set them aside for tank corps. Park them somewhere safe in the rear, and hook them up with a couple of freshly minted guards tank brigades (or your highest morale ones from the blizzard) in April of 42. They'll need those extra vehicles. And the first tank corps TOE is short on afvs, so if these tank brigades are also overstrength in tanks (as will likely be the case) that's a nice bonus.

Don't disband them.

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RE: Actively disbanding sov units pre nov 41 - 2/8/2012 10:38:25 AM   
Walloc

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

What you could do with these overstrength tank brigades is this: set them aside for tank corps. Park them somewhere safe in the rear, and hook them up with a couple of freshly minted guards tank brigades (or your highest morale ones from the blizzard) in April of 42. They'll need those extra vehicles. And the first tank corps TOE is short on afvs, so if these tank brigades are also overstrength in tanks (as will likely be the case) that's a nice bonus.

Don't disband them.


quote:

Next idea was is to drive those particular bde's way back and wait for tank corps to be formed. Form the first ones from those particular bde.


Flav, read my entire posts!

Rasmus

< Message edited by Walloc -- 2/8/2012 10:39:39 AM >

(in reply to Flaviusx)
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RE: Actively disbanding sov units pre nov 41 - 2/8/2012 10:41:16 AM   
Flaviusx


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Well then, you know what to do!

Honestly, I've always liked those overstrength tank brigades just for this reason. They're wonderful little packages for novice tank corps.



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RE: Actively disbanding sov units pre nov 41 - 2/8/2012 6:30:44 PM   
randallw

 

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If you are keeping just a few tank divisions, because of truck worries, what do you do with the cadre tank brigades?

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RE: Actively disbanding sov units pre nov 41 - 2/8/2012 8:02:26 PM   
Schmart

 

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What I usually do especially with the weak Tank Divs (and some Mot Divs), is I use them as rear area diggers. Put them in my 2nd or 3rd line, they dig fortifications, stay out of combat and don't lose too many trucks, and if the Germans break through, either use them then or just keep shifting them back to the new 2nd/3rd defense line. Once they flip to Bdes, the excess trucks seem to bleed off relatively quickly, so those trucks then go to the pool. No need to disband, I get as many Bdes as possible, and save lots of trucks. And you don't really need the trucks in 1941. You're saving them for 1942 when you start building Tank Corps.

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RE: Actively disbanding sov units pre nov 41 - 2/8/2012 9:29:01 PM   
randallw

 

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Unfortunately they aren't strong in sappers and built forts fairly slowly. It takes four or five turns just to increase the fort level by 1.

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RE: Actively disbanding sov units pre nov 41 - 2/9/2012 12:03:36 AM   
Schmart

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: randallw

Unfortunately they aren't strong in sappers and built forts fairly slowly. It takes four or five turns just to increase the fort level by 1.


Granted, but it's a combination of benifits: Dig, defence in depth, and lose less trucks. They do dig slow, which is why I gradually pull them east of the Dniepr to work on building my stand fast line.

(in reply to randallw)
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