RE: Third Reich

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RE: Third Reich

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Norm Koger's The Operational Art Of War III >> RE: Third Reich

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RE: Third Reich - 1/21/2013 6:45:47 PM

Crossroads

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Glad to observe you blitzkrieging from one version to next!

Are there any random effects on these calculations? Like a die roll or anything like that? Just asking :)

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Post #: 151

RE: Third Reich - 1/21/2013 9:04:48 PM

sPzAbt653

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quote:

Are there any random effects on these calculations?

Not in any of the events that I've put in, if that's what you mean.

(in reply to Crossroads)

Post #: 152

RE: Third Reich - 1/21/2013 10:02:30 PM

Crossroads

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Just curious how you've calculated the various effects of these TOs, and if there was a random factor there or not.

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Post #: 153

RE: Third Reich - 1/21/2013 11:43:33 PM

sPzAbt653

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Ok, well, I wouldn't say that its random, because everything has been calculated based on the BRP system and Combat Factors from the original. For example, in my notes each country has an entry that looks like this :

Germany 87 Inf, 48 Arm, 30 Air [165] .527, .290, .181 150/38 20.02, 11.02, 6.87 20.02, 11.02, 6.87 BRP's allows for 6.67 inf, 1.37 arm, 2.29 air units. Replacement equalivalent: 701 inf, 69 arm, 115 Fighter, and 114 bomber.

Using these numbers as a base, all expenditures can be translated into TOAW Basic Replacement Points. The same for any affect that any action would have on a country's BRP's (i.e., Britain losing Gibraltar or Suez, or Germany conquering France). Sometimes the results are a little wacky, in which case I do randomly/arbitrarily make adjustments (for example, Axis Replacements are probably still too high, but this conclusion is based only on three playtests I've done, none of which has produced historical results with respect to Axis casualties).

In the case of Strategic Warfare, we have 'made up' some effects as discussed earlier in order to accomodate the BRP system. For example, in TOAW the Axis player can't actually expend BRP's to increase U-Boats, so in the scenario chosing a TO to 'Increase U-Boat Production' will cost replacements in other categories. These replacement costs take the form of units I call 'hogs'. A Hog unit will contain different types of equipment, for example: 1/400 Axis Fighter Units, and 1/100 Axis Armor Units. Hogs are not playable units and will arrive in a 'Not in Play' area of the map any time a player expends BRP's, thus 'hogging up' the players replacements.

Maybe you are sorry that you asked now.

(in reply to Crossroads)

Post #: 154

RE: Third Reich - 1/22/2013 6:21:21 AM

Crossroads

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Quite the contrary! After all, you are talking to someone who, at the time, willingly labored to get on top of 3R ruleset ;)

Thanks, that was interesting to learn. Good job, again. And forcwhat its worth, take a mediocre player such as myself and the Axis has anything but a free reign on the map :)

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Post #: 155

RE: Third Reich - 1/22/2013 6:45:03 AM

sPzAbt653

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quote:

the Axis has anything but a free reign on the map

Well, I'd like to see the Allies invade France in 1943-44 across the channel instead of thru Spain, and Egypt not be so easy to get. If the changes in v1.4 didn't do it, I will continue to try.

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Post #: 156

RE: Third Reich - 1/22/2013 8:59:07 AM

Crossroads

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That's what they did to me in my previous game, although it was the one where I was simply having fun by going hell bent on conquering Moscow. As a result I had quite a weak force in France.

I think I've seen them going through Spain as well.

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Post #: 157

RE: Third Reich - 1/22/2013 9:36:27 AM

sPzAbt653

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Here's a shot from the last turn of the game I played yesterday. Not really a strong Axis garrison in France, but the PO has stacks of fresh Allied units sitting idle across the channel and lots of fleets. Plus the entire US Air Force sitting idle in the States, when they should be in England. I guess I'm up against some sort of game engine calculation that is telling the PO not to do an invasion, but I should still be able to get him to do better than that.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 158

RE: Third Reich - 1/22/2013 11:54:50 AM

Crossroads

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I agree the beaches of Normandy should be seeing some action there soon. I had like half of your forces there when they actually decided to move on with the invasion.

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Post #: 159

RE: Third Reich - 1/25/2013 2:44:25 PM

sPzAbt653

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v1.5 now available.

Tinkered more with weather. Still getting some mud though, even with the 'no precipitation' setting.

Added a Russian Winter Rule - On the first Winter Turn following an Axis attack on the U.S.S.R., no Axis unit other than Finns may attack any hex within the U.S.S.R. (a news event will remind).

Added a rule for Para Drops:
Embarked Airborne Units in TOAW have a range that will allow then to drop anywhere on the map. The original Third Reich game allowed Airborne Units to drop only within 6 hexes of the base that they started the turn in. Its a good idea to impose this guideline while playing.

Big changes to the replacements, something like this :
All base rates have been lowered. [Base rates are still supplemented by Captured Country BRP's and affected by SW]. Axis grow by 35% each Spring turn from 1941 on. Allies grow by 33% in Spring 1941 and Spring 1942, 40% in Spring 1943, 45% in Spring 1944, 50% in Spring 1945. Allied Bombing reduces Axis rates by 18% in Spring 1943, 1944 and 1945. Axis Increases in Air Defense can cancel the Spring 1943 reduction, and reduce the 1944 and 1945 effect by 8%.

So, the player should now have a little trouble getting built units up to full strength unless there is some conquering going on.

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Post #: 160

RE: Third Reich - 1/26/2013 12:42:02 PM

shunwick

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Steve,

Just a quick note. 3R.zip does not contain the equipment file. The original v1 did but since then...

Best wishes,
Steve (no, the other one)

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Post #: 161

RE: Third Reich - 1/26/2013 5:53:33 PM

sPzAbt653

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Thanks Steve

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Post #: 162

RE: Third Reich - 1/26/2013 8:01:46 PM

Crossroads

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Locked and loaded! Glad you opened up the SW and BRP rules too. It is a bit easier to play with the SW TOs now :)

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Post #: 163

RE: Third Reich - 2/20/2013 2:28:24 PM

Crossroads

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Hmm, lessee here...

Sequence of Play

I. Year Start Sequence:

Year Start Sequence logic (he who has most BRPs will move first) not available as such.
Playing Axis Variants (6 & 10): while not available in a random fashion (one Variant only), variants such as activating Italy, activating other Minors via commencing with Barbarossa.
Strategic Warfare Resolution: done automatically
BRP Level Calculation (Basic Replacement Points vs Resource Points, liked it!): done automatically with disbandable units in conquered Capitols.
Strategic Warfare Construction: available as TOs

II. Game Turn:
A)Playing Axis Variants (9 & 10): again, some of them implemented into game.
B)Russian Winter dice roll: available as bad weather during the first winter after Barbarossa
C)Determination of Player turn: not applicable.

D) First Player Turn:

1) Axis Variant 3,4,5,7; Allied Variant 6
2) Declarations of War: available as TOs
3) Placement of forces of newly-attacked Minor Countries: Minors activate as a hostile unit spends a turn adjacent to their territory. Like it.
Plaement of forces as obtained with BRP points: new units available through TOs.
4) Option Selections (Attrition, Defense, Pass): Not applicable, or rather: implemented as how the player plays his turn.

5) Movement & Combat Phase of any Minors which have been attacked: Either player or Elmer does this.
6) Voluntary Destruction of Units: TOAW Disbanding units but as this refers to combat sequence: not applicable as such.
7) Movement phase: Battle and movement per TOAW round sequence.
8) Combat phase: Battle and movement per TOAW round sequence.
... [snip]...
BRP deductions if a Capital is lost: included within the last yearly turn, before new BRPs become available in Spring turn.
Victory Conditions such as French or Italian surrender: included.

9) Unit Construction Phase: available as TOs
10) Strategic Redeployment Phase: not available within TOAW, railways / fleets need to be used instead.
11) Removal of Unsupplied Units: TOAW supply rules
12) Removal of certain Bridgehead Counters: not applicable as such, some supply points created in areas where a bridgehead would be needed (Sealion for an example).
13) Possible Russian Surrender: Russians do not surrender, but it is possible to create a manned line to Eastern edge of the Map, keeping the Russian reinforcements out, and complying with the requirement for a strong occupation force in Russia as well.
14) Possible Repair of Keile Canal, Suez Canal: Not applicable.

E) Second Player Turn
F) Turn up all inverted air and naval counters: Not appicable. (Inverted counters, ... the memories lol )

And that's it!

I think you've done a magnificent job in migrating the game into TOAW. Being such a mediocre player, this remains a challenge for me, I have properly lost all the wars I've started as the Evil Empire. For a player of my skills, there is no need to tweak the balance. Also, it's been fun to try various strategies, such as commencing with Sealion before Barbarossa.

Like I said earlier: you deserve a medal for your efforts!

PS: As a side comment: I do not believe adding a random Variant to Axis player adds to the game, I just referred to them as they were in the manual.

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East Front: Forgotten Battles JTCS EF2 Add-on

(in reply to Crossroads)

Post #: 164

RE: Third Reich - 2/20/2013 3:15:14 PM

sPzAbt653

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Nice review Mr. Crossroads !! You and Mr. Rodia must share in the accolades.

In reference to the randomness of which player starts a turn, TOAW does have that and it should happen in this scenario, especially around the time that the USA enters. TOAW uses number of units on map to make the calculation, I think.

By starting in 'Hotseat Mode' the player can avoid the 'innitiative switches', but I haven't tried that with this scenario to see how it might affect the Allied side (as there are some formation orders that are canceled by starting in Hotseat).

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Post #: 165

RE: Third Reich - 2/20/2013 5:38:32 PM

Crossroads

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I was not aware TOAW had a capability for an initiative switch, that would be a nice addition and in compliace of the feared double-turn sequence with 3R.

Also, having read the manual through again, I believe the Axis and Allied Variants might be a cool addition, after all. Possibly have (some of) them available as a TO for the first turn, with a rule that a player may select only one of them?

This has been a fun ride so far

< Message edited by Crossroads -- 2/20/2013 5:39:22 PM >

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Gott Mit Uns! (Breitenfeld!)
Blitz callsign Battle Kat

East Front: Forgotten Battles JTCS EF2 Add-on

(in reply to sPzAbt653)

Post #: 166

RE: Third Reich - 2/22/2013 12:42:28 PM

sPzAbt653

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From: east coast, usa
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quote:

... I believe the Axis and Allied Variants might be a cool addition ...

Had to think about this one a bit. I wouldn't give the player the choice of which option, rather I would give the player the choice of having an option, and the computer would pick a random one. This would also trigger a random Allied option.

On the other hand, if I were the player and I really wanted to have Turkey as an Ally, I'd rather not go thru re-starting until I finally got that option. Seems kind of silly. So I'm stuck as to how to implement the options.

Back to what you suggested, having them as options and the player can pick which one. (No reason why the player wouldn't pick more than one if they really wanted to). The game will only display a few Theater Options at one time. As TO's are removed from the list new ones will take their place. The turn 1 TO list is full, so these options would have to wait a turn or two before appearing. If the player didn't choose enough existing ones, not all the new ones would appear on the same turn.

Still thinking ...