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RE: 'Third Reich 1942-1945' - Your thoughts?

 
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RE: 'Third Reich 1942-1945' - Your thoughts? - 8/17/2012 6:15:53 AM   
Crossroads


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Roger. Good things are worth a wait, eh :)

Regarding 3.5, what's the latest on it?

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RE: 'Third Reich 1942-1945' - Your thoughts? - 8/17/2012 1:00:17 PM   
sPzAbt653


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quote:

Regarding 3.5, what's the latest on it?


Not being an ass or anything like that, about all I can say is that work continues. Nothing juicy to report.

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Post #: 62
RE: 'Third Reich 1942-1945' - Your thoughts? - 8/18/2012 8:10:41 AM   
Crossroads


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Fair enough.

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Post #: 63
RE: Tired of Waiting ? - 1/7/2013 7:24:48 PM   
sPzAbt653


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Ok, enough waiting. I squeezed this into 3.4 and it can be had at :

http://www.dizium.net/TOAW


Look for the '3R' link. The .zip contains a folder that goes in the graphics folder (if anyone doesn't know the routine, let us know). GJK's awesome graphics are included, thanks GJK !! (let me know if its not ok to include this in the .zip and I'll take it out).

Its a BETA, I've only run it thru once to make sure there were no fatal flaws. If anyone wants to tinker around with it, go ahead. I intend to go thru the original manuals to see what I can add. Any suggestions are very welcome. There are some things that I don't think can be overcome (crazy complex rules for Axis deployments in Afrika) and Elmer does some goofy things at times. The BRP (Basic Resource Point) dynamic has been changed to a Basic Replacement Point dynamic. In the original your Resources would grow as you conquered stuff, in this one your Replacements will grow.






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Post #: 64
RE: Tired of Waiting ? - 1/7/2013 8:33:29 PM   
Crossroads


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Looks great! Kudos! I downloaded and got it working, but won't have time to have a look at it until weekend...

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Post #: 65
RE: Tired of Waiting ? - 1/7/2013 8:55:54 PM   
Rodia


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The map looks sweet, thanks for the scenario.

I'm playing a game atm.


EDIT:

Ah yes, sPzAbt. I was wondering what the red units did.

Mini AAR:

I'm arriving late to all Operations and I got Fall Rot + D-day.

Having fun!


< Message edited by Rodia -- 1/7/2013 11:37:12 PM >

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Post #: 66
RE: Tired of Waiting ? - 1/7/2013 11:21:04 PM   
sPzAbt653


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Thanks Crossroads - I'll have fixes in by the weekend (first two things, the weather works terribly, and the Western Allies are a bit docile).

Thanks Rodia ! Ignore the red units at the bottom left, they are left over from an aborted idea.

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Post #: 67
RE: Tired of Waiting ? - 1/9/2013 6:24:34 PM   
Rodia


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First game finished, sPzAbt.

Loved the TOs, I managed to get a draw after being late all the game (the Soviet Union had to declare war on me).

Except for the in command of Axis, everything worked great.

The only thing, the English Navy wiped easily all my garrisoned troops in the English Channel, I had to put them one hex back.

Is this WAD, to help the AI with allied invasions? I noticed the Navy doesn't get past the Netherlands so it's not a great nuissance.

BTW, I'm planning REVENGE.

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Post #: 68
RE: Tired of Waiting ? - 1/9/2013 6:35:08 PM   
sPzAbt653


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Hi Rodia ! Yes, the Elmer run Allied fleets create a mess, but as you say it helps the Allies get ashore. So the player has to keep some reserves in France once you get into 1943, or there might be quick trouble.

For v1.1, I've got the weather fairly straightened out, and adjusted Elmer based on what I've seen so far (Africa is a PITA). I'm redoing the replacement system (it was only roughed in like everything else).

quote:

I managed to get a draw after being late all the game


Yeah, I'm usually pretty bad at this one, often not getting France until well into 1941. For v1.1 I hope to get it where you really do have to ATTACK-ATTACK and keep ATTACKING.

I'll post v1.1 on Friday morning.

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Post #: 69
Third Reich - 1/11/2013 3:05:53 PM   
sPzAbt653


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v1.1 is now posted. If you already have all the graphics files, go to the second link '3Rsce', that will give you the scenario only.

http://www.dizium.net/TOAW

The weather works pretty good, although the northern area gets progressively colder and by the end at turn 24 it is frozen solid up there.

The Replacement (BRP) system for the Axis has been reworked. Its all based on percentages and stuff from the original. There are base replacement rates, plus the Axis player gets bonus replacements for conquering countries. These bonuses are received each Spring turn, and are in the form of disbandable units. Hopefully this isn't a pain to deal with, it should be fun getting those goodies. So far it seems that if you go to the reinforcement screen and click on the first one (which brings up that unit on the map) then disband it, the engine will jump to the next one to be disbanded. I haven't tested it deeply yet, so I'm not positive about that. The units are identified by the 'coast artillery' icon and all have '0' supply and readiness. Disband them on the Spring turn, because in the summer turns they are withdrawn automatically and you will lose them.

The Base Replacement Rate that you can see in the Inventory and Replacement screen may be too high, so they might get adjusted in future versions. The point is that at least for the beginning of the scenario, the player should have issues with not enough replacements to fill all the units (depending on how many the player brings in).

The Allied PO replacements are so far based on simple percentages. Conquer a country and Elmer losses some, let Elmer conquer a country and he gains some.

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RE: Third Reich - 1/11/2013 3:14:09 PM   
sPzAbt653


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Fighting the Fickle Fleets :

So far the turns in this scenario are very quick, even though Elmer likes to play with his boats and move them all around. I've put some of them in reserve status so this will help a little. I also found that moving the two German fleets on turn 1 to the pictured positiions protects Kiel and Breman, and keeps Elmer out of the Baltic.

If he annoys you too much, you can get temporary revenge by using your Bomber units, which have a high anti-ship capability and will usually sink an enemy fleet easily.

Sometimes Elmer seems very focused on one hex, and will use his fleets to blast any units you have there. I've found that placing a spare German Pz unit in such a hex will discourage Elmer to a good extent.




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RE: Third Reich - 1/11/2013 3:19:06 PM   
sPzAbt653


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Sometimes your units will reconstitute in odd places (a lot seem to like a vacation in Rome). This can be avoided by using 'fixed' reconstitution in the editor, but I don't like doing this in general. However, if units arrive in improbable locations I will do it that way. Let me know if you come across any instances like this and I can fix it.

Let me know if you have any issues or opinions. Thanks guys and hope you have fun with it.

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Post #: 72
RE: Third Reich - 1/11/2013 4:16:13 PM   
Rodia


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Yay, it's 3Riday!

Thanks, sPzAbt. That replacement system you mention sounds intriguing. I will try AVSAP.


EDIT:

After declaring war to Soviet Union (turn 10) I got these two Theater Options: "Build Italian Folgore..." and "Build Italian Naval Fleet RM6", but I did not activated Italy yet.

Summer 1942: Of course I had to try, activated RM6 without Italy, used it to take Gibraltar. Britain BR. 9 Corp is in South of Madrid.

GIBRALTAR FOR THE ITALIAN!




EDIT 2:

How ungrateful! Franco has declared the war on me.

BTW, most of Spanish units have incomplete names: Cordob, Granad. Also, on the map "Bilboa" should be "Bilbao".

I have to ask: how can I invade Great Britain?

The Navy in this version seems a lot better, my fortified units do not evaporate anymore, unless all the allied navy, USA as well, concentrates in the English Channel, and even then they seem to hold or survive and retreat.

Finally I got the BRP system, but I fail to see any advantage to it.


EDIT 3:

Finished. Great game, a bit crazy but not broken crazy.

I did not take Moscow for one hex but I managed to retain Gibraltar. Beware of nazi Gibraltar!






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< Message edited by Rodia -- 1/11/2013 10:12:19 PM >

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Post #: 73
RE: Third Reich - 1/12/2013 12:50:58 PM   
Crossroads


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I just started the campaign with the newer version.

It might take me a while to get up to speed with TOAW again, but I am at least happy to report Poland is conquered pretty much on schedule.

Looks great so far. Very much the proper feel with amounts of units available. The map looks great as well! The only suggestion there is to actually put the Gulf of Finland in at 33,15 34,14 and 35,14. You might also consider putting in the great lake Peipus in Estonia, roughly on 38,14. (Look at the original 3R map in my opening post)

Small gripes I know

I will continue to report on my slow progress.

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Post #: 74
RE: Third Reich - 1/12/2013 7:00:40 PM   
sPzAbt653


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quote:

After declaring war to Soviet Union (turn 10) I got these two Theater Options: "Build Italian Folgore..." and "Build Italian Naval Fleet RM6", but I did not activated Italy yet.


Oops, rogue Italians ! Good catch, I'll fix it.

quote:

... activated RM6 without Italy, used it to take Gibraltar.


Yeah, I did the same thing. I guess the TOAW fleets carry marine landing party's.

Do you think its important enough to put a permanent British Garrison unit there ? I have no objections if you guys think it should be done.

quote:

most of Spanish units have incomplete names: Cordob, Granad.


That's the way they are in my original boardgame. I guess they had a six letter limit on their counters in 1974. The question is, does anybody care that they look original, or is it more important for them to look correct ? Its up to you guys.

quote:

on the map "Bilboa" should be "Bilbao".


Got it, thanks !

quote:

how can I invade Great Britain?


Let me look .... ok, you can't ! Sorry about that, I/we will have to come up with a reasonable solution. Any ideas ? Off the top of my head, I'd say that the Axis currently have enough Sea Transport to assault with (and reinforce any successful landing with) three Infantry units or 1/2 Pz unit per turn. There's no interception in TOAW 3.4, so if the Germans get a clear shot they could do it (although currently there is no Axis Supply point in Britain). So maybe I just need to add a Supply Point somewhere ? What do you guys think ?

quote:

The Navy in this version seems a lot better




quote:

Finally I got the BRP system, but I fail to see any advantage to it.


Could you elaborate a little ?

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Post #: 75
RE: Third Reich - 1/12/2013 7:12:55 PM   
sPzAbt653


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quote:

... put the Gulf of Finland in at 33,15 34,14 and 35,14. You might also consider putting in the great lake Peipus in Estonia.


Because they are hexside features.

I can't do them without changing the moves that could be made on the original map, that's why I used Escarpments (a hexside feature). Unfortunately, ZOC's extend across them. I think I can turn them blue, if that helps.

quote:

Small gripes I know


No worries, I welcome them and will try to resolve them all, where possible. No Gripe Too Small ! Our creative minds should be able to overcome anything here with a reasonable solution.

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Post #: 76
RE: Third Reich - 1/12/2013 7:22:53 PM   
sPzAbt653


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I'm working on adding a Murmansk Convoy box. If it works out, Convoy units full of equipment would stop here for one turn on their way to the USSR. That would give the Germans one turn to bomb them with Air units stationed in Norway, reducing the amount of equipment that the USSR gets.




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Post #: 77
RE: Third Reich - 1/12/2013 7:29:35 PM   
Telumar


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

I'm working on adding a Murmansk Convoy box. If it works out, Convoy units full of equipment would stop here for one turn on their way to the USSR. That would give the Germans one turn to bomb them with Air units stationed in Norway, reducing the amount of equipment that the USSR gets.





Nice idea - provided the units are spotted. You might want to add Axis 'observers' in an adjacent hex.

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RE: Third Reich - 1/12/2013 8:07:54 PM   
sPzAbt653


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HaHa !! Read the Briefing - Fog of War = OFF. (lol). Thanks Telu, but the original boardgame dynamics were all units visible. I think even the computer version was like this.

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Post #: 79
RE: Third Reich - 1/12/2013 8:43:25 PM   
Rodia


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About "Cordob", "Granad", I vote to keep all original errors.

I should point I never played the boardgame - but always wanted to - so I don't know exactly what you're trying to do with the BRP system. I just forget to disable the token units, and I don't see how this system is better than just spawning the units won by conquer.

Basically you're converting units into buttons. I don't mind if someone does that out of the map (in fact I think it's cool), but on the map, with the cool boardgame look you got, it just detracts from the experience.

Just my two cents and as I've said, I never played the game, so don't worry much about what I post.

PS: One vote for garrisoning Gibraltar!

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Post #: 80
RE: Third Reich - 1/12/2013 9:13:49 PM   
sPzAbt653


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quote:

About "Cordob", "Granad", I vote to keep all original errors.


Okie Dokie.

quote:

I just forget to disable the token units,


Drat, I figured that would happen, and its a very valid point because then you lose them.

quote:

Basically you're converting units into buttons. I don't mind if someone does that out of the map (in fact I think it's cool),


I thought it would make the player feel that he was actually accomplishing something. But like I said earlier, it could be a pain, and thats not the intention. I think the only alternative is the way it was in v1, all done behind the scenes by percentages.

quote:

One vote for garrisoning Gibraltar!


Done !

quote:

don't worry much about what I post.


Look, so far its up to you, me , Crossroads and Telumar. Telu may or may not be interested very much, I don't know (anything he says is very appreciated). I consider Crossroads to have the final say in stuff as it was his idea, I'm just putting this together, and you can say whatever you want, no worries. Like I said, we're all contributing to make it as close to as much fun as the original was.

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Post #: 81
RE: Third Reich - 1/12/2013 11:45:01 PM   
Rodia


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Thanks, sPzAbt :)

About reinforcements, I guess a message in the news could be enough?

How does it work in the Avalon Hill game?

Also how is Italy managed?

I ask this because I've found my Grand Strategy of not inviting Musso much like cheating... but on the other hand it was way cool.

I was getting every turn the message: "You have Theater Options". I know, lol.


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Post #: 82
RE: Third Reich - 1/13/2013 2:29:19 AM   
sPzAbt653


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quote:

About reinforcements, I guess a message in the news could be enough?


An obvious idea, sorry I missed it, and I will add it. Then we can see if over the next few plays it isn't too much of a problem (the manual disbanding of units thing).

quote:

How does it work in the Avalon Hill game?


In the boardgame the player kept track of it on separate cards. In the computer version, there was a Year Start Sequence in the Spring turns, the computer did the calculations, and a screen would flash up showing how your BRP level has progressed.

quote:

Also how is Italy managed?


In the originals, Italy was a neutral operating on its own until either it declared war on a country at war with Germany, or a country at war with Germany declared war on it. Generally, the Axis player would bring Italy in to help defeat France, or Britain would attack Italy in order to knock the Axis out of Africa early. In TOAW this is impossible (no neutrals). What we have now is a German Theater Option to bring Italy in whenever the player feels like it. The Allied PO has no option to attack Italy as I think we can't trust Elmer with such decisions.

quote:

... not inviting Musso much like cheating


I didn't feel that it was cheating because if Italy isn't activated, the Germans are almost shut out of Africa. However, I hadn't considered never activating Italy, in which case I should come up with an alternate strategy for the Allied PO. That's a ****ly problem, though.

quote:

"You have Theater Options".


Even with the message (which we can't stop) I often forget to use them.

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Post #: 83
RE: Third Reich - 1/13/2013 4:34:41 PM   
Crossroads


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
Look, so far its up to you, me , Crossroads and Telumar. Telu may or may not be interested very much, I don't know (anything he says is very appreciated). I consider Crossroads to have the final say in stuff as it was his idea, I'm just putting this together, and you can say whatever you want, no worries. Like I said, we're all contributing to make it as close to as much fun as the original was.


Unfortunately, I am pretty much still a novice with TOAW... But I'll try my best!

I very much like what you've accomplished so far! As far as I am concerned you should get a medal for this

My votes for garrisoning Gibraltar and for "wrong" unit names as well.

I am still in the 1940... Will continue later today. France backstabbed me while I was busy at Poland. Loved that! No sitzenkrieg as far as Elmer is concerned


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Post #: 84
RE: Third Reich - 1/13/2013 5:15:58 PM   
Rodia


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Even with the message (which we can't stop) I often forget to use them.

I also forget about them, but the message every turn is/was cool, it was like italians calling Germany each season. "Hey, we're here waiting! Can we join plz?"

BTW the schedule is so tight that it's great to squeeze TOAW rounds from each turn.

And one minor detail, again I don't know how is in the original game but capital cities are marked with a red star, even Berlin, lol, I find that's a bit discouraging.

Is like that in the Avalon Hill game? I can help with some minor graphic things if needed.

And like Crossroads, I also vote for a medal!


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Post #: 85
RE: Third Reich - 1/13/2013 5:38:20 PM   
Crossroads


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Yes, they were red stars... All resistance is futile lol.

The boardgamegeek has a few images of the board if you scroll further down this page: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/1563/rise-and-decline-of-the-third-reich

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Post #: 86
RE: Third Reich - 1/13/2013 5:47:11 PM   
sPzAbt653


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quote:

Unfortunately, I am pretty much still a novice with TOAW... But I'll try my best!


Usually I like to stay away from analogies but in this case I'll say that I can't bake a cake, but I know what tastes good.

quote:

My votes for garrisoning Gibraltar and for "wrong" unit names as well.


Ok, done and done. I'll remind later when 1.2 is posted, but will mention that the initial Gibraltar Garrison is on the puny side because I don't want it to be impossible to get, so we'll have to monitor the situation in future plays.

quote:

I am still in the 1940 ...


No worries, the great thing about working for ourselves is that there are no deadlines. Continue at your own pace and go as far as you like, voice your opinions/concerns and let me know when you want v1.2.

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Post #: 87
RE: Third Reich - 1/13/2013 6:09:01 PM   
sPzAbt653


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quote:

BTW the schedule is so tight that it's great to squeeze TOAW rounds from each turn.


In the original there was a Combat Phase followed by an Exploitation Phase. TOAW Rounds are a different dynamic, but with the settings we have for Maximum Rounds Per Battle and Attrition Divider, coupled with Movement Allowances and Combat Strengths, so far it seems that this is working out pretty well.

quote:

capital cities are marked with a red star


As Crossroads said, the same as in the original, although some cities had little black stars (like lisbon in Portugal). Since we don't have little black stars I've put red ones in those also. The original had contries without stars and you needed to capture all cities within them to gain the BRP's (for example, in Algeria you needed to get Oran, Algiers and Constantine). For the sake of simplicity I've tied most of those types of countries into one location. So for Algeria you need to only capture and hold Algers, but holding Kaf in Arabia gets you nothing (as in the original).

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RE: Third Reich - 1/13/2013 7:40:24 PM   
sPzAbt653


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quote:

I can help with some minor graphic things if needed.


It would be nice to have most placenames in Black, but I think that might require a separate .dll file.

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Post #: 89
RE: Third Reich - 1/13/2013 8:52:19 PM   
Crossroads


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Got a couple of turns more under the belt. Wish I can boast a Nazi Gibraltar soon as well!

I am not sure I understood the Finnish Gulf / hex side thing.

They are full hexes in the board game you could do the same? Movement was not allowed over them. At the moment it just looks wrong, a bit like the English Channel in the first draft you posted here. This is an easy comment to make though, that's why I am asking again :)

Apart from that, as I don't have that many TOAW games under my belt, I am struggling a bit trying to play with similar tactics as with the board game. Is there an easy way to move troops around?

From Poland to Netherlands and France for an example I just moved them as it was a relatively short trip to make. But is there a way to do something similar as in the deployment phase with board game, where you could place your troops in the beginning of a year sequence?

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