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OT: Seattle taking a pounding.

 
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OT: Seattle taking a pounding. - 1/20/2012 12:22:33 AM   
sventhebold


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From: MN The browning fields
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Just heard from my daughter in Kent WA. The power is out till Saturday. It is too icy to walk. They are moving their cars as trees are snapping off randomly because of the ice storm.

Any of our forum members in that area have anything to report????
Worried Father.

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RE: OT: Seattle taking a pounding. - 1/20/2012 12:39:29 AM   
5thGuardsTankArmy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sventhebold

Just heard from my daughter in Kent WA. The power is out till Saturday. It is too icy to walk. They are moving their cars as trees are snapping off randomly because of the ice storm.

Any of our forum members in that area have anything to report????
Worried Father.




As I live in the Scandinavien part of the world I have seen alot of winterstorms, A Lot of them but never experienced to much Ice for you to be able to walk...
I understand they can move their cars arround there in Seattle so thats a good sign. If you can open the front door of your house without digging your way out its actually pretty good conditions and no reason to complain.

Try Scandinavia..


  

Finally they start claring the track, has been stuck for 49 Hrs!








Summerski Center (to much snow in winter, so this ski senter is open Summers ONLY.








A Hot day in July ... The snow has melted at road but still 2 months untill snowalls are reduced... and in 3 months the winter starts over agian..











27th September - E16 High Way









March 19th in a warmer part of the country (a lot less snow).






Mountens..


< Message edited by 5thGuardsTankArmy -- 1/20/2012 1:19:16 AM >

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Post #: 2
RE: OT: Seattle taking a pounding. - 1/20/2012 1:25:42 AM   
TulliusDetritus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: 5thGuardsTankArmy

As I live in the Scandinavien part of the world I have seen alot of winterstorms, A Lot of them but never experienced to much Ice for you to be able to walk...
I understand they can move their cars arround there in Seattle so thats a good sign. If you can open the front door of your house without digging your way out its actually pretty good conditions and no reason to complain.

Try Scandinavia..


Once in Irkutsk -one of the coldest URBAN places in the world, along with Ulan Bator in Mongolia- a Russian guy (from that Siberian town) had told me the problems with cars... Apparently problems started at -18 Celsius... He was explaining the different problems at -22, - 26, then finally said: "if it's -34 C [NOT uncommon over there] you better don't get that car..."

If you think Minnessota is cold you got all wrong Irkutsk and Ulan Bator, now THAT'S cold

< Message edited by TulliusDetritus -- 1/20/2012 1:28:05 AM >


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RE: OT: Seattle taking a pounding. - 1/20/2012 1:29:52 AM   
jazman

 

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I'm in Kent. It's nasty, for us. All the trees are being proof-loaded, and the weaklings are failing all over. The light rain/sleet/snow is supposed to continue through the night, so I'm worried about a couple of trees in my yard (this is why you don't have trees next to the house). Tomorrow it should go up into the mid-40s, so that'll end the tree problem.

Another problem is we don't get much practice driving in snow and ice, so it's best to stay home, but a lot of people don't and spin out somewhere. We have a lot of hills around, so there are lots of steep roads.

< Message edited by jazman -- 1/20/2012 1:32:19 AM >


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RE: OT: Seattle taking a pounding. - 1/20/2012 1:31:31 AM   
wdolson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sventhebold

Just heard from my daughter in Kent WA. The power is out till Saturday. It is too icy to walk. They are moving their cars as trees are snapping off randomly because of the ice storm.

Any of our forum members in that area have anything to report????
Worried Father.


I lived in Kent for 14 years. I live near Portland now. We got about 4 inches of snow, but it turned to rain yesterday afternoon and it's around 40F now. The cold front over Seattle didn't break down like it did to the south. That happened last winter too.

I have a friend in Tukwila who is snowed in.

The western cities of the Northwest do get snow about every other winter on average, but the snow usually only lasts a day or two, so there is not much need to invest in snow plows. There are only enough plows to keep the major streets clear. Side streets are rarely plowed. Seattle is also very hilly, which makes plowing even tougher.

There is a cycle of weather in the Pacific region only discovered a few years ago. It's called the Pacific Decodal Oscillation. The cycle is about 60 years long. It has 30 years in which the West Coast of the US is warmer with more El Nino winters and then 30 years of colder winters. The up cycle lasted from about 1975 to 2005 and we've had much colder and wetter winters since.

Last year the rainy season lasted until mid-July (it usually ends in May) and we had the wettest spring on record. In December 2008 we had the worst snow event in Portland history where we broke the record for the longest with snow on the ground (about three weeks). Our city was using anything they could to move snow. They finally cleared our street enough to get out with back hoes.

Last winter was the first since 2005 where Portland didn't get a major snow storm, but Seattle got hit.

The cold spring in the Northwest also contributed to the bad tornado season the Midwest had last spring. The air making it over the Rockies off the Pacific was about 10 degrees cooler than normal, which mixed with the warm air coming up from the Gulf of Mexico, which was a bit warmer than usual. That created conditions perfect for tornadoes.

I believe the prediction is that the warmer air causing just rain in Portland will push north and warm up Seattle in the next day or two. The Pacific is also generating a lot of precipitation right now, so until the cold front breaks down, Seattle will probably get more snow. Then the Seattle area needs to worry about flooding. Kent isn't much of a risk unless you live on the valley floor and even then it's mostly the remaining farmland that floods. Up north of Seattle the Monroe area tends to drown whenever there is a major snow melt, or a pineapple express tropical front.

Most of the population of Kent lives in the hills. Is she in one of the hills?

I lived on the east hill on SE 223rd Dr.

Bill

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RE: OT: Seattle taking a pounding. - 1/20/2012 1:44:06 AM   
sventhebold


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Yes she told me she lives up on a hill and getting around has been tough. They have been invited to stay at another house that has a fireplace.


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RE: OT: Seattle taking a pounding. - 1/20/2012 1:48:01 AM   
5thGuardsTankArmy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

quote:

ORIGINAL: 5thGuardsTankArmy

As I live in the Scandinavien part of the world I have seen alot of winterstorms, A Lot of them but never experienced to much Ice for you to be able to walk...
I understand they can move their cars arround there in Seattle so thats a good sign. If you can open the front door of your house without digging your way out its actually pretty good conditions and no reason to complain.

Try Scandinavia..


Once in Irkutsk -one of the coldest URBAN places in the world, along with Ulan Bator in Mongolia- a Russian guy (from that Siberian town) had told me the problems with cars... Apparently problems started at -18 Celsius... He was explaining the different problems at -22, - 26, then finally said: "if it's -34 C [NOT uncommon over there] you better don't get that car..."

If you think Minnessota is cold you got all wrong Irkutsk and Ulan Bator, now THAT'S cold









I think it depend on car brend alot, also if you have it on Electric heating over the night. (connected to 220volt power stations on most parcing lots) it solves most problems as it keeps the Engine Block hot over night, and also the cocpit worm.




-34C (- 29F) is not really that cold. My local temp varies between -22c (- 7F) and up to -38c (-36,4F) in winter. I think Irkuklst is the by far coldest avverage temperature all across the year though.



The Problem with the tempareture is when trains get snowed in like on Picture above on post nr 2, as often that can cause large problems with evacuation. (not easy to store 500 people if your a 4 hour walk from nearest road) and not easy to get food and wather to the trains who are stuck all over the plase for up to 3-5 days at the time.


This is when you deploy an army of this ones...







< Message edited by 5thGuardsTankArmy -- 1/20/2012 2:15:18 AM >

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RE: OT: Seattle taking a pounding. - 1/20/2012 1:55:14 AM   
TulliusDetritus


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5thGuardsTankArmy, I am talking about BIG places, not some small or random desert place in the arctic. Ulan Bator has 1.5 million people. The thing is getting above - 30 C IS normal in these two places, not a weird, exceptional anomaly. Moscow itself is er Florida...

By the way, I love your nick! I just got my 1st Tank Army HQ on my WitE game (first july 1942 turn). On next turn I'll be buying the 2nd Tank Army. I already have the Tank Corps which will be attached to these Armies HQs. But to earn the Guards status I will need lots of victories Come 1944 I should be having some Guards Tank Armies, full of Guards Tank and Mechanized Corps!

Actually Ulan Bator is colder than Irkutsk. But the city is above 1.000 meters above sea level.

< Message edited by TulliusDetritus -- 1/20/2012 2:02:27 AM >


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RE: OT: Seattle taking a pounding. - 1/20/2012 2:01:55 AM   
5thGuardsTankArmy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

5thGuardsTankArmy, I am talking about BIG places, not some small or random desert place in the arctic. Ulan Bator has 1.5 million people. The thing is getting above - 30 C IS normal in these two places, not a weird, exceptional anomaly. Moscow itself is er Florida...

By the way, I love your nick! I just got my 1st Tank Army HQ on my WitE game (first july 1942 turn). On next turn I'll be buying the 2nd Tank Army. I already have the Tank Corps which will be attached to these Armies HQs. But to earn the Guards status I will need lots of victories Come 1944 I should be having some Guards Tank Armies, full of Guards Tank and Mechanized Corps!





HiHi Nice ^^

Well, may be that we are living far away from society out here, but I would say at least a few Million people lives as I described above,
most Urban Citys effected in this way don't usually have more then 150 000 - 250 000 people in them though.

1st Tank Army HQ ^^ Not bad at all.



< Message edited by 5thGuardsTankArmy -- 1/20/2012 2:04:48 AM >

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RE: OT: Seattle taking a pounding. - 1/20/2012 2:30:02 AM   
Cap Mandrake

 

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Places that don't get a lot of ice storms dont do as well.


Got down to 39 F here last night. That's positively Arctic

If we had 4 feet of snow down here, 5 million people would get frostbite or die.

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Post #: 10
RE: OT: Seattle taking a pounding. - 1/20/2012 2:33:03 AM   
wdolson

 

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The rest of the world that gets snow regularly laugh at the wimpiness of Northwesterners when it comes to snow.  But a big factor is that houses tend to be built for the climate where they are situated, and cities provide services appropriate to the typical weather seen during the year.  Typical winter weather in the Northwest US rarely gets below about 30 F (-1C) and summers are mild.  Seattle's all time high temperature is 100 F (38C) and typical is more like 80F in the summer.  Typical winter temperatures are in the 40s F.

We get a lot of rain, but it tends to be spread out over a long time.  .2 inches an hour is heavy rain. It's notable when we get an inch in a day.  A large number of American cities get more rain per year than Seattle, but Seattle has more days of rain per year than most.

Houses here are built for colder winters than California, but their heating systems struggle to keep up when temperatures stay below freezing for more than a few hours.  Back in 2008 when we had the three weeks of snow, I was bundled up like an eskimo with the heat running 24/7 and I was still cold.  The heat is usually fine when the temps are in the 40s though.  No house around here would be able to manage a Siberian winter, or even a Minnesota winter.

The cities and states here also don't have the infrastructure to handle snow for more than a day.  When the it snows and sticks for several days, people can die.  Every time we have a major snow storm that lasts for several days, people die from the cold, stupid heating ideas and traffic accidents on roads that were not well plowed with drivers who have little experience driving in the conditions.

I have a friend from Boston who was calling Portlanders wimps after the first snow.  When we had a multi-day snow thing, she changed her tune.  She has all the skills to drive in snowy conditions, but even she had a lot of trouble getting around after a serious snow storm. 

Places like Houston and Miami occasionally get snow.  Maybe once per decade.  It's usually mild even by Northwest standards, but people there have serious problems because those cities are designed for tropical weather, not arctic and the cities become paralyzed.

Seattle and Portland probably should invest more in snow removal equipment.  Especially with the PCO in a down cycle which will bring more snow.  But these cities are designed for the typical winter weather which is light steady rain and temperatures in the 40sF.  Get outside those parameters for more than a day or two and it gets unlivable.

Bill


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RE: OT: Seattle taking a pounding. - 1/20/2012 2:33:37 AM   
TulliusDetritus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: 5thGuardsTankArmy
1st Tank Army HQ ^^ Not bad at all.


Nah, you don't earn them. Starting in july 1942 you CAN create these Armies HQs (as per history and as long as you spend administrative points) Earning the Guards status, this yes, requires hard work: you have to have a minimum of victories.

Still I managed to get the 1st Guards Army (rifle) duing the 1941-42 blizzard offensive (aka first winter aka Moscow Counter-Offensive), and this yes, it was rather weird

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RE: OT: Seattle taking a pounding. - 1/20/2012 2:43:46 AM   
wdolson

 

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From: Near Portland, OR
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Places that don't get a lot of ice storms dont do as well.


Got down to 39 F here last night. That's positively Arctic

If we had 4 feet of snow down here, 5 million people would get frostbite or die.


If Los Angeles got a couple of inches of snow it would create chaos. My parents always talked about 1949 when it snowed in Los Angeles. It was only about 1/2 inch, but the city was paralyzed. The only snow plows in the entire region were up in the mountains and they were busy.

Bill

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RE: OT: Seattle taking a pounding. - 1/20/2012 2:46:03 AM   
mike scholl 1

 

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Much depends on what is normal for an area. Siberia is really nasty..., but those who live ther know and expect such weather. The real circus starts when a nasty cold snap and ice storm arrives somewhere it isn't normal---like Atlanta or Dallas. Those are roads you really don't want to drive on until all the locals have spun themselves into a ditch...

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RE: OT: Seattle taking a pounding. - 1/20/2012 3:15:33 AM   
5thGuardsTankArmy


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Question, Im qurius to know how the situation regarding driving ect is over there,
Do those locations you mention who get some light  winter conditions  have laws forcing them to use Winter Tires  from X date to X date?  



Here its law saying you must use it from latest 1 November to earliest 15 April or big big fine for you!
It does help alot though, especially on Ice. There are different types of winter tires, both with sharp metal and without.
Point is it can't be the hard rubber used for Sommer tires, but must be a far softer type of rubber.





In Norway Trucks are required to bring with them this steel wires (don't know name on english) and its required for them by law to have acces to
for each truck / trailer and X amount for them to put on when neccesary.







How is it in the US on this area?

< Message edited by 5thGuardsTankArmy -- 1/20/2012 3:26:10 AM >

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RE: OT: Seattle taking a pounding. - 1/20/2012 3:39:34 AM   
Feinder


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Florida snow on Clearwater Beach...

(* grin *)

-F-




Attachment (1)

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RE: OT: Seattle taking a pounding. - 1/20/2012 4:00:37 AM   
wdolson

 

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In Oregon and Washington it is required to carry chains or have snow tires in the mountains during snow storms, but at lower elevations you can have snow tires during winter.  They are not required and must be removed by April 1.  Snow tires rip up the streets, so they are not encouraged.

Unless you do mountain driving during the winter, it usually isn't necessary.

Bill

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RE: OT: Seattle taking a pounding. - 1/20/2012 4:35:21 AM   
Knyvet


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I'm in Alaska and the most surprising thing I learned about cars in the winter is that in Fairbanks, for example, where it gets around 40 below (not unusual/very common in the winter) your tires end up flat. Block heaters and chains on tires I know - not being able to keep your tires inflated because it is too cold was a new one for me.

As for Seattle - kinda tough to deal with a snow storm when the city doesn't have plows.

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Post #: 18
RE: OT: Seattle taking a pounding. - 1/20/2012 4:51:46 AM   
SqzMyLemon


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Just had three days of -28 to -32 Centigrade here and yet we are expected to reach 0 on Sunday. I couldn't imagine not having winter tires or a block heater during these cold snaps.

< Message edited by SqzMyLemon -- 1/20/2012 4:52:42 AM >


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RE: OT: Seattle taking a pounding. - 1/20/2012 5:36:09 AM   
5thGuardsTankArmy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

In Oregon and Washington it is required to carry chains or have snow tires in the mountains during snow storms, but at lower elevations you can have snow tires during winter.  They are not required and must be removed by April 1.  Snow tires rip up the streets, so they are not encouraged.

Unless you do mountain driving during the winter, it usually isn't necessary.

Bill



Ok Thanks.

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Post #: 20
RE: OT: Seattle taking a pounding. - 1/20/2012 5:37:32 AM   
5thGuardsTankArmy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Knyvet

I'm in Alaska and the most surprising thing I learned about cars in the winter is that in Fairbanks, for example, where it gets around 40 below (not unusual/very common in the winter) your tires end up flat. Block heaters and chains on tires I know - not being able to keep your tires inflated because it is too cold was a new one for me.

As for Seattle - kinda tough to deal with a snow storm when the city doesn't have plows.





Oh, this is intresting, do you use reguler Air in the Tires?
Here Nitrogen Gas is most usual.

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RE: OT: Seattle taking a pounding. - 1/20/2012 9:58:17 AM   
21pzr

 

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Several years ago, I was on a ship that brought a USMC Aviation Support Battalion to Bodo, Norway, in March. As we unloaded our cargo of Hummers and tactical vehicles, the Marines were having great difficulty keeping these EXPENSIVE, supposedly all-terrain vehicles from sliding around and into snow banks. Our agent took me into town for some errands, and we blithely passed stuck Hummers in his Volvo station wagon, fitted with studded snow tires. Once again, the US military proving that it can throw money at problems and still come up with something that doesn't do what it was designed to do!

Bill

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Post #: 22
RE: OT: Seattle taking a pounding. - 1/20/2012 12:02:20 PM   
OSO


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Here in Illinois it is currently illegal to use either chains or studded tires but we have plenty of snow removal equipment. The biggest problem now is money to pay for the salt to keep the roads clean. Aside from states located in the northern rockies, only states near the Great Lakes get a regular winter punishment and are prepared to deal with it.

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Post #: 23
RE: OT: Seattle taking a pounding. - 1/20/2012 3:35:19 PM   
AW1Steve


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quote:

ORIGINAL: 5thGuardsTankArmy

Question, Im qurius to know how the situation regarding driving ect is over there,
Do those locations you mention who get some light  winter conditions  have laws forcing them to use Winter Tires  from X date to X date?  



Here its law saying you must use it from latest 1 November to earliest 15 April or big big fine for you!
It does help alot though, especially on Ice. There are different types of winter tires, both with sharp metal and without.
Point is it can't be the hard rubber used for Sommer tires, but must be a far softer type of rubber.





In Norway Trucks are required to bring with them this steel wires (don't know name on english) and its required for them by law to have acces to
for each truck / trailer and X amount for them to put on when neccesary.







How is it in the US on this area?



Many US states DO have laws regarding snow tires, and when they may be on or off. We have 50 states (all the US Territories (except the District of Columbia) are in warm weather climates so they don't have such issues.

I've travelled in and lived in Scandanavian countries (for up to six months at a time) and must say that many of the Northern US states are equal to Scandanavian weather).

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RE: OT: Seattle taking a pounding. - 1/20/2012 3:36:17 PM   
AW1Steve


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sventhebold

Yes she told me she lives up on a hill and getting around has been tough. They have been invited to stay at another house that has a fireplace.



I'm glad she's safe!

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RE: OT: Seattle taking a pounding. - 1/20/2012 3:36:28 PM   
Sredni

 

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It's been -30ish Celsius (-22f I think) where I live for the past week, but no ice or snow. Alas my furnace gave out during the worst of it heh, I'm told I have to change those filters once in a while *shrug*. So I was left with 2 little electric heaters to keep the place warm for 4 days while I put off calling the furnace guy and diddled with the thermostat hoping it would start working again. Kept the temperature at around 10c (50f) fairly well. Finally gave the furnace guy a call and he said they had been running steady doing furnace repairs for the whole week of cold weather. Poor guy looked exhausted.

900 dollars later I've decided that I'll be changing the dust filter in the furnace regularly like I'm supposed to

I remember as a kid staying home from school during -40c days, but cars still run. Last year was record snow and there were all sorts of recriminations with the city snow removal service. This year snow is back to normal amounts. Cars run ok in the cold, you just need to have them plugged in. It'd be nice if the car designers at any of the major brands had cold weather in mind when they designed their vehicles, but alas they all seem to not care since their major customer source just doesn't get really cold weather. So it's hit or miss whether you get a car that defrosts well or not, and the battery is always just barely enough and ends up struggling in the cold.

We always laugh at the people in victoria and vancouver when they get a rare snowfall and act like it's the apocalypse, but really it's all in what you're used to. The first snowfall where I live always results in countless cars in the ditch as well. Our houses are insulated for this weather, we plug our cars in, use winter tires, keep our antifreeze properly mixed. Our municipal services include adequate snow removal services (for teh most part), and we have the clothing and experience to deal with it.

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Post #: 26
RE: OT: Seattle taking a pounding. - 1/20/2012 3:40:21 PM   
AW1Steve


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quote:

ORIGINAL: 5thGuardsTankArmy

quote:

ORIGINAL: sventhebold

Just heard from my daughter in Kent WA. The power is out till Saturday. It is too icy to walk. They are moving their cars as trees are snapping off randomly because of the ice storm.

Any of our forum members in that area have anything to report????
Worried Father.




As I live in the Scandinavien part of the world I have seen alot of winterstorms, A Lot of them but never experienced to much Ice for you to be able to walk...
I understand they can move their cars arround there in Seattle so thats a good sign. If you can open the front door of your house without digging your way out its actually pretty good conditions and no reason to complain.

Try Scandinavia..


  

Finally they start claring the track, has been stuck for 49 Hrs!








Summerski Center (to much snow in winter, so this ski senter is open Summers ONLY.








A Hot day in July ... The snow has melted at road but still 2 months untill snowalls are reduced... and in 3 months the winter starts over agian..











27th September - E16 High Way









March 19th in a warmer part of the country (a lot less snow).






Mountens..




Seattle, like most of the Northern West coast , is on VERY hilly terrain. Not a problem usually in dry , warm weather. But Ice makes them extremely treacherous. YOU might never have seen ice that prevented you from walking , but I have. Take those same nasty scandavian roads, then put them on 40 degree incline!

As usual , you don't know what you are talking about and only want to bring pain an discomfort. You take a concerned fathers worries about his daughter and slime it. TROLL!!!!

_____________________________

"Geezerhood is a state of mind, attained by being largely out of yours". AW1Steve

"Quit whining and play the game. Or go home". My 7th grade baseball coach. It applies well to WITP AE players.

(in reply to 5thGuardsTankArmy)
Post #: 27
RE: OT: Seattle taking a pounding. - 1/20/2012 4:04:12 PM   
Schanilec

 

Posts: 3326
Joined: 6/12/2010
From: Grand Forks, ND
Status: offline
Blame Nikademus. He wished for snow or the weather that shall not be named, hereafter TWTSNBN. And I placed a curse on Washington.

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This is one Czech that doesn't bounce.

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Post #: 28
RE: OT: Seattle taking a pounding. - 1/20/2012 4:23:30 PM   
sventhebold


Posts: 298
Joined: 12/22/2006
From: MN The browning fields
Status: offline
I have been through just about every kind of weather there is and learned a BIG grain of caution is called for as
you watch the other IDIOTS drive on blythley like nothing can happen to them.

For instance a driver on I-29 south of Fargo ND went off the road in a storm and in bad conditions last year called and begged for help. He insisted they come and get him but they wanted to wait till morning. BUT then he told them he was only wearing shorts and a t-shirt in -40 WEATHER!!!!! I personally would have left his butt there.


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SSgt USAF 84-91 F-15 Ops Puke 525 TFS & 7th TFS

(in reply to Schanilec)
Post #: 29
RE: OT: Seattle taking a pounding. - 1/20/2012 4:24:30 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 12935
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: ME-FL-DC-GM-WA-NE-IL ?
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Schanilec

Blame Nikademus. He wished for snow or the weather that shall not be named, hereafter TWTSNBN. And I placed a curse on Washington.


I hope you are referring to Washington state. Many would argue that Washington DC has enough curses! (And is the root cause of many, many more!)

_____________________________

"Geezerhood is a state of mind, attained by being largely out of yours". AW1Steve

"Quit whining and play the game. Or go home". My 7th grade baseball coach. It applies well to WITP AE players.

(in reply to Schanilec)
Post #: 30
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