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Hungry Paratroopers

 
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Hungry Paratroopers - 1/16/2012 7:01:01 PM   
Rasputitsa


Posts: 1463
Joined: 6/30/2001
From: Bedfordshire UK
Status: online 		Just dropped a German para unit on Malta, 3 German TAC air units on Sicily, 10 Italian cruisers and 1 BB in the 'Coast of Tunisia', 8 Italian cruisers in the 'Central Mediterranean', which are adjoining sea areas, however para unit is now out of supply for two turns. Why no supplies

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RE: Hungry Paratroopers - 1/16/2012 7:53:55 PM   
freeboy

 

Posts: 8330
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline 		that is odd, it should jump with supplies for two turns??? or three, cannot remember

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RE: Hungry Paratroopers - 1/16/2012 9:58:10 PM   
Rasputitsa


Posts: 1463
Joined: 6/30/2001
From: Bedfordshire UK
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: freeboy
that is odd, it should jump with supplies for two turns??? or three, cannot remember


The unit info is showing 'out of supply for 2 turns', I thought that they would have 'alternative supply' from either, the TAC air (3 of them available), or Italian fleets in both of the adjoining sea areas. Can Italian fleets supply German forces, which should be possible, but would not be surprised if they don't, however, I thought the German air units on Sicily would cover it.


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RE: Hungry Paratroopers - 1/17/2012 2:51:58 AM   
JLPOWELL


Posts: 371
Joined: 5/5/2011
From: Pacific Time Zone
Status: offline 		Doesn't sound right. Besides airborne should not be subject to the same supply rules anyway. Unlike most units they are set up to be resuplied by air (training and light weapons very few very light vehicles) As high value units they were given priority as well. They should loose less effectiveness when out of supply than other units and should get pretty much full supply if weather is clear and have air superiority.

All that said they are a bit cheap and too easy to use and too effective at level 1. Perhaps not too cheap at higher levels, but still too effective.

I am not sure if they can drop on an enemy occupied hex (except thru the magic of events...) very small German Airborne units battalion and smaller performed some pretty spectacular things (covered by the ToF events in Belgium and Norway) and they succeded at Crete. but against a prepared enemy they were never as good as they can be in the game. Allied large formation airborne efforts had mixed success, The two main examples are DDay mostly a success with limited objectives an Market Garden a failure but not nessaraly of the airborne alone trying for a very ambitous objective. Luck played a MAJOR role an all the airborne assaults I have read about. The two German early war efforts could have been fiascos very easily so could have Crete for that matter. And Market Garden would have had a pretty good chance if some pretty strong GE units were not in the wrong (or right depending on the perspective) spots.

IMO they should take a more severe (and highly random) damage when dropped particularly if into bad weather (if that should even be permitted) and should take very signnificant damage if intercepted (up to 100%)

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RE: Hungry Paratroopers - 1/17/2012 3:16:25 AM   
freeboy

 

Posts: 8330
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline 		I do remember reading, manual or in forums, that once dropped they where treated like invasions from sea and had several turns .. ok.. one more for the patch

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RE: Hungry Paratroopers - 1/17/2012 6:11:51 AM   
aspqrz

 

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Joined: 7/20/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JLPOWELL
... and they succeded at Crete ...


So well did they succeed at Crete that they were never again used in massed airdrop operations. Hitler was so horrified by the losses they took and at how close run a thing Operation Merkur was that he decided "never again" ... to borrow a phrase from somewhere else ...

I agree, however, that they should have at least one turn at minimal supply as part of any airdrop ... but not at full supply, or anywhere near it ...

Phil

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RE: Hungry Paratroopers - 1/17/2012 2:27:40 PM   
Rasputitsa


Posts: 1463
Joined: 6/30/2001
From: Bedfordshire UK
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: freeboy
I do remember reading, manual or in forums, that once dropped they where treated like invasions from sea and had several turns .. ok.. one more for the patch


Which is why I have fleets in both sea areas that adjoin Malta, unless Italian ships cannot supply German units, which historically they should be able to do. When I shipped a German unit by sea, it created a German Transport Group, but German ships cannot enter the Med, when the British hold Gibraltar. Although German subs did operate in the Med, perhaps they should be able to force a passage, with an odds calculation on losses suffered during the attempt.

I know this is all abstracted, but Italian and German fleets should be able to supply each others' units. I don't know why air supply is not working, unless it kicks in later when the para unit's own supply runs down. I need to run some more turns to check.

The RN has aircraft carriers in the Med (I damaged some and they withdrew, but now they are back), so maybe there is a balance of air power to be considered. I know that a lot goes on under the hood, but it would be nice to have some indication of the results of these calculations in each turn. Like the discussion on an abstracted air interdiction feature, you need to know the balance of air power, in any turn, so that you can take action and move in more air units.

You cannot fix a problem that you don't know you have.

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RE: Hungry Paratroopers - 1/17/2012 4:59:28 PM   
LiquidSky


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Joined: 6/24/2008
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Paratroopers don't require supply when they drop as they have full strength and AP's available.

Just smack the unit in port with air, and shore bombardent until it has a defense of 0.2, then attack it with your paratrooper. Your loaded transport can then move into the port, and unload next to it...all before the enemy can react.

Turns are a quarter month long (bit longer then a week). Paratroopers are not meant to out of contact with your lines for more then a day or two, and bad things happen when you stretch the time. Look at the British paratroopers at Arnhem. Even the US paratroopers at Bastogne didnt have to hold out for more a week, and it is considered an accomplishment that they did.. Thats one turn in Fury.

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RE: Hungry Paratroopers - 1/17/2012 6:49:22 PM   
Rasputitsa


Posts: 1463
Joined: 6/30/2001
From: Bedfordshire UK
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: LiquidSky
Paratroopers don't require supply when they drop as they have full strength and AP's available.

Just smack the unit in port with air, and shore bombardent until it has a defense of 0.2, then attack it with your paratrooper. Your loaded transport can then move into the port, and unload next to it...all before the enemy can react.

Turns are a quarter month long (bit longer then a week). Paratroopers are not meant to out of contact with your lines for more then a day or two, and bad things happen when you stretch the time. Look at the British paratroopers at Arnhem. Even the US paratroopers at Bastogne didnt have to hold out for more a week, and it is considered an accomplishment that they did.. Thats one turn in Fury.


Probably went too early and need more preparation, also using the Italian fleet to help the movement through El Alemein, can't run the two operations at the same time. I have another para unit preparing in Sicily, so will have to try again in a few turns, after I had a chance to neutralise the British aircraft carriers.

New Year's resolution, be more patient.


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