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RE: Modding Smaller Scenarios using DaBabes

 
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RE: Modding Smaller Scenarios using DaBabes - 2/18/2012 7:28:54 PM   
US87891

 

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SNLF and Guard Units are all different and do not work within the game environment well. Guadalcanal OOBs always put the 81st Guard Unit on the island, but that unit was not there. According to Hanada, there was a detachment of 116 men in what was called the 81st Special Dispatched Landing Unit. The name, in Japanese, is similar to 81st Naval Guard Unit, or 81st Special Naval Landing Force, so the confusion is understandable, but it was neither of these. It was composed of communications, medical, and survey sections from actual 81st Guard Unit formations, a water unit drawn from 84th Guard Unit formations, and a security unit (platoon size, and acting as infantry), drawn from an AA unit, of the 84th, without AA weapons. It was under command of Ens Siichi Hironose, from staff company 81st Guard, so there is another source of confusion.

3rd Kure, at Tulagi/Gavutu is equally misunderstood. According to Suzuki Masaaki (the commander), he had 2 SNLF infantry platoons, a gun unit, an AA unit, an intendence unit, a survey unit, an 81st Guard detachment for security duties, and a transport/boat unit. All fighting as infantry. Is this 3rd Kure - No, not even a third of it.

The Japanese assault on Milne Bay is incredibly informative. The units used and their composition go very far towards explaining the TO&Es of these transitional Units. John doesn't quite get it yet, but I think he'll get there.

Matt

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Post #: 31
RE: Modding Smaller Scenarios using DaBabes - 2/19/2012 1:08:22 AM   
Mac Linehan

 

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Matt, JWE -

Was off line for some time, am now just catching up on the forums.

Am so very grateful that your team is working thru the challenges and chugging along. I respectfully submit that there are a good number of folks who are very interested in all things Babes; but whom may not post on a regular basis - if at all.

Of course, you do the work and we enjoy the results; please know that you are very much appreciated - your work is always professionally done and First Class; with great attention to detail. Men who give their all (voluntarily and unpaid!) to such time consuming projects - do so because of their love and passion for history and desire to refine AE to the fullest extent possible. How remarkable that a game released in 2009 (based on an earlier release!) was so well coded and designed that it can be continuously improved more than two years later.

When I think of the AE developers, and, more currently the Babes Team, one of my favorite quotes comes to mind:

"Integrity First, Service before self, Excellence in all we do"

Mac





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RE: Modding Smaller Scenarios using DaBabes - 2/19/2012 5:54:37 PM   
JWE

 

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Thank you Mac. You are always the Gentleman. So, for them of ya'll who who just want to check it out:

I do actually 'get it', but I'm being a bit intransigent about effective structure. Besides, Matt is so much fun to tweak, it pushes him to heights I don't really consider. Matt and I are negotiating furiously about how to slice and dice the various units and make them work as the scenario period progresses. This was the time frame where SNLF/Guard/SBF/whatever units were undergoing the transition from the simple early war ground combat/security model to the point defense/security model.

So, just for fun, here's how the 8th Combined SNLF is working out. It was the Kure 6th and Yokosuka 7th with a bunch of AAA and CD. They started out as detachments from guard units and had a small infantry unit, a AAA unit, and a CD gun unit. Then they got fleshed out with a bit more infantry, and a bit more robust AAA and CD units. When fully constituted, 8th Combined was 35% bigger than an equivalent IJA Regiment. I'm splitting/combining the heavy units out of K6 and Y7 into 8th Combined AAA and 8th Combined CD Units. The vestiges are expressed in the DB as K6 and Y7 infantry units. The beautiful thing is that adding everything together gives you what you would expect, in terms of troop/weapon count, and allows for mobility options for the infantry components.

So much fun!! Been having a ball. Woof!! Reading the latest translations is so informative. In Japanese, a battery is a battery, or a platoon, or a company, or a regiment, or every gd gun on a gd island (from 2 to 196). So units have these commander guys, and a unit might have an AA "Unit" commander (so look at his rank) and have platoon "Unit" commanders under him. So search the names and see what kind of guns they were humping, and you get a good idea as to who was doing what, and what that means to the OOB.

Just a thought. Ciao. John

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RE: Modding Smaller Scenarios using DaBabes - 2/19/2012 6:31:38 PM   
Sardaukar


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This is sounding better and better.

I am especially happy about the fact that smaller scenario would be perfect introduction to DaBabes, without newer players having to start Grand Gampaign and be overwhelmed.

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RE: Modding Smaller Scenarios using DaBabes - 2/20/2012 3:49:01 AM   
Mac Linehan

 

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JWE -

I love the background history and how it breaks down into game terms - Thank You for taking the time to explain the "why" and "therefore"!

It's a three day weekend, decided to start a new DBB Scn28 C v10; have spent the day happily editing with enthusiasm.

Can't help doing so because:

> Don puts up screen shots of his light craft and other babies to tempt me;

> FDRLincoln has posted his Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" - and T (whom, along with Don and the Babes Team, I consider to be only slightly lower than the Disciples of Christ in all things Naval) actually chimes in with two whole sentences - (which tells me that the Cruiser is a go in my scenario!)...

Edit:

Gents, In my excitement I have forgotten my manners, and shall ask FDRLincoln for permission to use his ship.

Life is Good <grin>

Mac



< Message edited by Mac Linehan -- 2/20/2012 11:10:10 PM >


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RE: Modding Smaller Scenarios using DaBabes - 2/21/2012 3:49:07 PM   
Don Bowen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mac Linehan
...

> Don puts up screen shots of his light craft and other babies to tempt me;

...


Who, me?







Attachment (1)

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RE: Modding Smaller Scenarios using DaBabes - 2/21/2012 5:43:28 PM   
Terminus


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It's what he does. He's The Don.

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RE: Modding Smaller Scenarios using DaBabes - 2/21/2012 9:44:17 PM   
Shark7


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What a tease.

Interesting ship list there though.

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RE: Modding Smaller Scenarios using DaBabes - 2/22/2012 11:30:35 AM   
dwg

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: US87891

We have a special map modification that we use for the Solomons. Slight displacements of Guadalcanal and Bougainville Islands allow Guadalcanal to span 3 hexes, Tassafaronga in the NW, Lunga in the center, and Taivu in the SE; the SE tip of Bougainville is expanded to span 2 hexes, Buin on the SE tip of Bougainville, and Shortlands right next door. It does tend to make things a little more interesting during the opening moves of 1942.


Oddly enough I was looking at Bougainville last night and thinking pretty much the same thing, so I'll be very interested to see precisely how you've handled the map.

And while we're in the area, can anyone confirm that Shortlands was in the British Solomons, rather than the German Solomons with Bougainville, immediately pre-WWI? It comes up in some what-iffery I'm playing with, but I can't seem to find an actual listing of which island was in which group at what time (and just to complicate things it did change pre-WWI).

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RE: Modding Smaller Scenarios using DaBabes - 2/22/2012 4:28:23 PM   
JWE

 

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This is what our Solomons map looks like. Threw in Fauro Island between Pirumeri and Choiseul. The speck in the middle is Ballele. Also stuck Savo Island in there. Scenario will have the regular map and regular bases however.

Think Shortlands group went to Britain in 1899 as part of the Samoa swap thing. Germany kept Bougainville. Mr Wikiwonka has a map from 1911 showing the Shortlands group as part of the British area. Dividing line goes right through the Buin Straight. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Map-Kaiser-Wilhelms-Land-und-Bismarck-Archipel.png




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by JWE -- 2/22/2012 10:09:46 PM >


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RE: Modding Smaller Scenarios using DaBabes - 2/23/2012 6:48:25 PM   
JWE

 

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Well, this is looking to be an exceptionally balanced scenario, all things considered. Just about done, only need some Brasso here and there. Definitely a BigBabes primer.

Transport ships are far and few between. Most of the x models are xAKLs, damn few xAKs and even fewer AKs. Players will have choice between moving supply, moving troops, or invading; there’s enough for one and a fraction.

Because the Allies get the Guad TransRon with a bunch of APs and AKs, and most of them were supposed to withdraw, for which there is no mechanism in the scenario, all Allied units arrive at Fiji, Tonga, or NZ (with no transport), so one must use those assets to go fetch them. That also uses lots of fuel and time, both of which are at a premium.

Japanese get some high value (very high value) AKs, for the October and November convoys, but that’s about it. Lose them and there ain’t jack else coming. Heck, there’s more cruisers in this scenario than AKs and biggish xAKs. So, as the Last Knight said, “one must choose wisely.”

Lots of Babes-type ships in this. YPs, YMSs, YOs, KPM coastals, CalTex TKLs, Gozans, Kujiras, Ku’dais, woof !! A veritable Spring of Don’s Babies extruding forth from the Winter loins of a ‘big ship – big gun’ experience.

There’s also Japanese shipping engineer units, port and anchorage units, all the stuff that a knowledgeable player can use to play Mr barge transport (hopefully better than Oka). Tons of hidden stuff that will reveal itself to a logistically smart player (if anybody got our DEI scen from the site, and got Jeremy’s white paper on it, this follows exactly).

HQs don’t have squat. Poop for Sup, AvSup, NavSup. An HQ is nothing but an Admiral, or a General and their staff. Just think US Federal Govt; they do nothing except consume supply and extend their influence. That is actually quite sufficient. There’s quite a few HQs, but they bring nothing to the party except influence; a good thing. HQs also allow for a creative restriction matrix; also a good thing.

There’s extremely few “real” Base Forces. I personally hate the AI cheats for type = BF, so got rid of the swine. Lots of things ‘called’’ BFs, but aren’t denoted as such in the DB. Thoughtful folks will see it.

Engineers are all over the map. Most Japanese engineers are ‘0’ or ‘4’, with some at ‘9’. Allied engineers are ‘4’ or ‘6’, with many at ‘10’ (and where WiTP gave you 48, Babes gives you 12). So forget everything you ever knew about building airfields. And everybody gets jack-all for AvSup. Your planes will wilt, they will wither, they will schlepp off to the boneyard. You will not have enough; you will not have enough, you will not have enough. Have fun !!

Made this as hard as I possibly could for both sides, given the constraints of the engine. Obviously had to give a teensy push to Japan in certain areas, but I think it’s working out as well as can be expected.


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RE: Modding Smaller Scenarios using DaBabes - 2/23/2012 6:59:25 PM   
Alfred

 

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JWE,

Are you sure this is Guadalcanal? The more you write it up, the more it seems like you are replicating Spartan doctrine and a battle from the Peloponesian War.

Alfred

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RE: Modding Smaller Scenarios using DaBabes - 2/23/2012 10:01:38 PM   
JWE

 

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Um Hmm. And ain't that just a darling of a scenario? You got Leo, with a bit more Spartans, and no Phocians. and the Athenians, with a bit more winkie and a bit less a$$ running the naval side, and poor ignorant, arrogant, godlike, Xerxes having to deal with Artaphernes and Mardonius? Woof !! But then Themistocles cleaned his clock, and off we go. Aristagorus would like you. Kinda think Memnon the younger would like you too. Hey, just think Xantippus and Tigranes at Mycale (479 BC, a wonderful year for olive oil).

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RE: Modding Smaller Scenarios using DaBabes - 2/24/2012 6:15:26 AM   
berto


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Really looking forward to the DaBabes Guadalcanal scenario.

Down the line, hoping against hope to see detailed, well-researched, grognardy DaBabes scenarios for all or any of these "sideshows":

  • DEI 1942 [reissued]
  • Papua/New Guinea 1942-1944
  • Philippines 1942
  • Philippines 1944-1945
  • Burma 1942
  • Burma 1944-1945

What are the prospects?




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RE: Modding Smaller Scenarios using DaBabes - 2/24/2012 11:39:02 AM   
dwg

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

This is what our Solomons map looks like. Threw in Fauro Island between Pirumeri and Choiseul. The speck in the middle is Ballele. Also stuck Savo Island in there. Scenario will have the regular map and regular bases however.


Nice, I may try something similar, it's quite a subtle change, but adds to the game 'feeling' right. Areas like Guadalcanal and Bougainville, with extended campaigns in geographically quite constricted terrain are awkward for WITP AE's ground scale to map easily and still retain the tactical complexity of the environment.

quote:

Think Shortlands group went to Britain in 1899 as part of the Samoa swap thing. Germany kept Bougainville. Mr Wikiwonka has a map from 1911 showing the Shortlands group as part of the British area. Dividing line goes right through the Buin Straight. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Map-Kaiser-Wilhelms-Land-und-Bismarck-Archipel.png





Seems right, and good catch on the 1911 map, I'd only found the more modern one with the Bougainville article. Weird to actually see Neu Pommern and Neu Mecklenburg on a map!

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RE: Modding Smaller Scenarios using DaBabes - 2/25/2012 5:13:44 PM   
JWE

 

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Couple dinky more bits of errata before this goes up on the site. As everybody knows, game doesn't work subs too well and, in a short scenario like this, sub deployment and withdrawal is simply not possible. So ...

7th SubRon is at Rabaul (5 boats), with Jingei, as it was. Then 3rd SubRon (6 boats), with an AS, is at Kwaj (with orders to support the SN-op). And that's it. SubDivs 1 and 3 from SubRon 8 (with Hie Maru) enter the game as reinforcements in Sept/Oct, and SubDiv 23 joins SubRon 7 in Dec/Jan. A gazillion others flowed in-and-out, but game can't deal with that, so what you get is an abstraction.

Same with Allies. Neither Christie nor English deployed their subs on a long-term basis. Christie had the the only tactical sub unit in SubDiv 201 (5 S-boats), his SubDiv 51 had other fish to fry. English's boats had strategic objectives, but SubDiv 43 was ordered to patrol around Truk and the Marshalls during the Watchtower operation. A gazillion others flowed in-and-out, but game can't deal with that, so what you get is an abstraction.

Japanese have a few more subs than the Allies: but they have more straightened support. Japan has 3 sub bases; Truk, Rabaul, and Kwaj. Those are the places where there's enuf NavSup and an AS to reload/service their SubDivs. Allies have the same hit, but there's some bigger ports in OZ that can do yeoman duty.

A bit o' this, a bit o' that, and life becomes a thought process, yeah?

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Post #: 46
RE: Modding Smaller Scenarios using DaBabes - 2/25/2012 5:36:12 PM   
JWE

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: berto
What are the prospects?

Think we might re-release the DEI Scen using the stuff discovered during Guad development. However, that will be a PBEM only, and only for players that understand the BigBabes concept. It is NOT a scenario for the nominal WiTP/AE player. Have a 41/42 PI scenario, but the same caveats apply, only more so.

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