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RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt

 
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RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 2/3/2012 7:08:53 PM   
Mad Russian


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The German infantry are right in the middle of the movement path for the entire 2nd Tank Company.

Good Hunting.

MR




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RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 2/3/2012 7:37:08 PM   
Rick

 

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I think if I were sitting in an open field and that tank company started advancing, I'd skedaddle too. I'm anxious to see if you are able to synchronize your two flanks to catch those elephants. I think if you aren't, you could be in for trouble.

Thanks
rick

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RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 2/3/2012 10:05:16 PM   
Mad Russian


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The results of the action so far are interesting to say the least.

Good Hunting.

MR

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Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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Post #: 213
RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 2/3/2012 10:09:54 PM   
Mad Russian


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As the tanks from 1st Tank Company open fire the Elephant buttons up.

At this point there are Soviet tanks on three sides of this elephant. All well under 1000 meters range.

Good Hunting.

MR




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Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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Post #: 214
RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 2/4/2012 2:30:13 AM   
heinrich55

 

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I'm with Rick. Seeing a whole company of T-34s rolling towards me and with only the cloth of my uniform for protection, I'd be moving fast in the other direction.

In this case, they are running towards our other wave of the ambush.

This should be very interesting.

Heinrich55

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RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 2/4/2012 4:44:44 AM   
Mad Russian


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Our tankers are not stupid. Lt. Moiseev's tank platoon of 1st Tank Company reverses while firing at the elephants.

Good Hunting.

MR




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Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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Post #: 216
RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 2/4/2012 4:57:27 AM   
Mad Russian


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While 1st Tank Company duels with an Elephant, 3rd Tank Company races down the western flank. One platoon holds it's ground and also engages an Elephant.

Now both 1st and 3rd Tank Companies have tanks firing at Elephants at under 600 meters.

Who will score the first hits?

Good Hunting.

MR




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_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

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Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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Post #: 217
RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 2/4/2012 4:59:35 AM   
Mad Russian


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Orders for 3rd Tank Company take them a bit further north. To a position that will bring them in against the rear quarter of the Elephants when the turn and race at them from the west.

Good Hunting.

MR




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The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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Post #: 218
RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 2/4/2012 5:08:09 AM   
Mad Russian


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Between 1st and 3rd Tank Companies they score the first hits of the battle.

Ominously, neither of them are penetrating hits!

Good Hunting.

MR




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The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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Post #: 219
RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 2/4/2012 5:13:26 AM   
Mad Russian


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The Germans would only sit still and be targets for so long.

Then the huge guns open fire! The report was loud enough to be heard miles away.

Good Hunting.

MR




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Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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Post #: 220
RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 2/4/2012 5:22:02 AM   
Mad Russian


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The shell screamed through the air and slammed into good Soviet steel plate! With a loud clang the round impacts but somehow it doesn't penetrate!

Good Hunting.

MR




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Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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Post #: 221
RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 2/4/2012 5:27:01 AM   
Mad Russian


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Again, we fired at the huge targets. Again, we hit!

Soviet gunners are doing a tremendous job!

But again the hit doesn't penetrate!

How can this be? How can we continue with this?

We have outshot the Fascists 3 to 1 and yet no damage to their assault guns?!

Good Hunting.

MR




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Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 2/4/2012 5:34:22 AM   
Mad Russian


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As Lt. Moiseev's platoon reverses away the Elephant's gun fires one more time!

You can even see the round in flight just beyond the end of the barrel.

Good Hunting.

MR




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< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 2/4/2012 6:19:40 AM >


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

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Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 2/4/2012 5:48:23 AM   
Mad Russian


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There is silence in the tank after the second hit. Nothing. No smoke, no fire, no life.

Nothing.

We get three hits for nothing and the Germans with only their second hit have killed one of our tank crews! There is no justice in thee world!

Good Hunting.

MR




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_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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Post #: 224
RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 2/4/2012 6:02:09 AM   
Mad Russian


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Again, the attacking T-34's score hits on the Elephants. Again, only to have the hits not affect them.

Good Hunting.

MR




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Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 2/4/2012 6:13:58 AM   
Mad Russian


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At this rate we are hitting the Germans at a rate of 2 for 1. That may still work to our advantage if they take 2 shots to kill each T-34 they fire at.

Unfortunately, for 2nd Tank Company the Elephant that opens fire on them requires only a single shot to turn a T-34 into a funeral pyre!

The attack plan is working. Each time the Germans swing to fire at one of our tanks they open their flank to shots from other T-34's. The problem is not getting good shots or even hits, but penetrating rounds through their armor plates.

Good Hunting.

MR




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< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 2/4/2012 6:14:42 AM >


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Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 2/4/2012 4:46:43 PM   
heinrich55

 

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"Dammit, STAVKA assured us that we had the best AT rounds available and that they would destroy anything the facists brought to the battle."

"Zhukov himself echoed this. Have we been deceived at the highest levels? How is this possible?"

"Heads will roll alright.....OUR heads!!!"

Quote attributed to Gunner Stavros Michevesky, 3TC, 2nd platoon, 3rd tank

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RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 2/4/2012 4:55:14 PM   
Yoozername

 

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I had hoped that MR would fix the Germans from one flank and then hit with the other two companies.  He needs to get into range which is probably 200-300 meters.  The main chance of penetration is the lower side hull and possibly parts of the upper superstructure at close range and a square hit.  Has he stopped the companies? 

If the Germans just pull back, they could possibly get away especially if they have guns behind them like marder or stug or panzer IV.  The iron might be getting cold.

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RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 2/4/2012 5:21:12 PM   
Mad Russian


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We're far from finished. Remember the Hero of the Battlefield took his elephants at longer range than we are firing from now.

We have them in the crossfire we were trying to achieve. Next will be to close the range to point blank.

So far our losses have not been prohibitive. So far we are out shooting them and have 4 hits to the Germans 3. If we can keep doing that we should have a good chance at taking these beasts out.

But you know, the best laid plans are only good until the first shot is fired and some interesting things are afoot....

Good Hunting.

MR

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 2/4/2012 5:23:00 PM >


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Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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Post #: 229
RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 2/4/2012 5:38:06 PM   
Mad Russian


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As 2nd Tank Company rushed forward the German infantry squad was machine gunned and they all dropped to the ground. As the 2nd Tank Company rushed forward, the German Elephants sensed the threat and turned to meet them.

As the firs Elephant fired and the shell went screaming past SSgt Makhno's driver lost his nerve and threw the tank into reverse. The Sergeant dropped down inside the tank and demanded that the tank move forward again....NOW!

The driver whose nerves were on edge slammed the tank in gear and turned hard right to avoid the next shell the Germans would fire.

In the meantime the rest tanks in the platoon also stopped. When they saw SSgt Makhno's tank stop the too stopped. What they saw was not the Elephant but another German HT. Thinking this was the new target after machinegunning the German infantry they opened fire on the HT!

Good Hunting.

MR






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< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 2/4/2012 5:41:34 PM >


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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Post #: 230
RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 2/4/2012 5:44:31 PM   
Mad Russian


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In the process of stopping, restarting, turning and engaging the German HT the 2nd Tank Company gets all bunched together.

Still we have a good crossfire on the Elephants. Notice the red targeting lines that go out to them from different directions.

We have them firmly in the trap! Now to slam the door shut!!

Good Hunting.

MR




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< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 2/4/2012 5:45:24 PM >


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 2/4/2012 5:46:17 PM   
Rick

 

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I hope your T34s get lucky. I think those elephants have the advantage at that range. you'll need some luck, even with side shots I think, and I doubt even luck will help once they turn to put their front armor toward you. And I don't know how you can get much closer in that terrain....I hope those T34s crews have their affairs in order.

Thanks
rick

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RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 2/4/2012 5:55:50 PM   
Mad Russian


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Another German HT is spotted and fired on. Another HT destroyed!

But, the stopping and starting of SSgt. Makhno's tank in front of an Elephant is not good!

As the Elephant's continue to take hits they fight back.

The 2nd report of the Elephant's gun results in a hit. The tank is thrown violently to the right side. Mikhail Ivanovich tells the crew to abandon the tank. With the crew on the ground and crawling to the rear one more sharp report from the German cannon shows the good sense of the tank commander and crew. The T-34 explodes in a ball of fire.

Good Hunting.

MR




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< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 2/4/2012 5:56:45 PM >


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

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Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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Post #: 233
RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 2/4/2012 6:07:38 PM   
Mad Russian


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The 2nd Tank Company is stalled in front of the Elephant. There is no movement in two of it's platoons. Sitting in front of the German assault gun something must be done.

Lt. Mashkov's driver sees that SSgt Makhno's tank is hit and he starts to back around the damaged tank.

The Lt. is screaming for his gunner to fire at the Elephant that is so close as to be able to hit it with a rock. We must do this NOW!

But before the gunner can fire the Elephant gunner fires again. He's only had to move the gun but a few degrees from his last kill!

The hatches of L. Mashkov's tank are blown open but no movement is seen.

More of 2nd Tank Company tries to withdraw. The company is disintegrating.

All the while more and more Soviet shells hit the Germans. Over and over again! So far, to no avail.

Good Hunting.

MR




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_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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Post #: 234
RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 2/4/2012 6:10:51 PM   
Mad Russian


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The engagement has gone hard since the firing started. So far we have continually hit the German vehicles but have not gotten a single penetration.

The Germans on the other hand have killed 4 of our T-34's. The good news is that we are in a position to close the range and see if we can yet take these Fascist machines out!

Good Hunting.

MR




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The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

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Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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Post #: 235
RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 2/5/2012 3:51:28 PM   
Mad Russian


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yoozername

I had hoped that MR would fix the Germans from one flank and then hit with the other two companies.  He needs to get into range which is probably 200-300 meters.  The main chance of penetration is the lower side hull and possibly parts of the upper superstructure at close range and a square hit.  Has he stopped the companies? 



Our Hero claims to have killed the Elephant/Ferdinand at 1400 meters.

Remember our Hero went forth in the dark to examine the knocked out assault gun. Here is the excerpt from his report:


This is what they found: four of their shots had gouged the armoured side over the running gear and left big pits. Considering that they were shooting at the thick armour at a range of 1400 meters this wasn't surprising. But yet the machine had caught fire. Why? The reason was obvious once Yerokhin and the crewman looked in through a round hatch in the rear armour plate. Right were Yerokhin had hit the vehicle with his shells was an auxiliary fuel tank. The violent shell strikes had caused the fuel to ignite and the burning fuel was what had burned out the tank, even though it's armour had not been penetrated. He also saw that there was no way any tank shell would penetrate the vehicle's glacis. But the sides could be penetrated at close range and at longer distances, the next best thing was to shoot for the area of the auxiliary fuel tank. And once this was determined the fate of the Elephant was sealed.


We have gotten much closer than 1400 meters. We've hit the Ferdinands from every angle. Not only have we not gotten penetrations we've lost several tanks doing it.

As far as "fixing" the Germans go, that would mean to take the fire of all 3 Ferdinands against just 10 tanks. In about a minute you would have 10 burning T-34's while having returned fire at the frontal armor plate of the assault guns. You're right, I didn't see that as being much of an option. So, we attacked from all three sides simultaneously and had the T-34's shoot past the elephant that was targeting their own company. Into the side and rear of a German machine.

I saw that as the only tactic that had any chance against the German machines. Of course as the range decreases the impact of those 88mm rounds increases just as our 76mm guns can better penetrate. All the Elephant/Ferdinands have to do is hit a T-34 once. The T-34's have to drive past the German machine that has targeted their company to get into the inner circle.

It's been interesting to watch the AI take a single Ferdinand and face it off against a Soviet tank company. So far the results have been devastating.

Our latest set of orders is to get the T-34's within a range of 200-300 meters. I don't know if any of them will live to see that range or what effect they will have if they make it but the next phase of the battle should be extremely bloody one way or the other.

The Soviets actually tried this tactic against the II SS Panzer Korps on the southern salient against a few Tigers, some PzIII' and PzIV's. The Germans shot the entire 5th Guards Tank Army to pieces when they tried it.


Good Hunting.

MR


< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 2/5/2012 3:57:08 PM >


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The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

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Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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Post #: 236
RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 2/5/2012 4:04:46 PM   
Yoozername

 

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I am not sure what the point of bringing up the 'Forty-Fiction'.  I have already posted a link in the other 'Elephant' thread that lists tanker-heroes and 'Our Hero' is listed there but it says 6 StuGs in two days.  The link actually shows that you had posted that information years ago.  I do not see any Soviet hero listed as taking out multiple Ferdinands or Elephants for that matter.

Again, using the map and terrain, I would have fixed the German attention against one of the 'side' tank companies with them having the chance of backing away (3TC).  It seems that you have not brought 2TC up against the sides but they appear to be at 10 o'clock to the Ferdinands.  I am not sure how 3TC is going to coordinate given its northward movement.

In any case, at this point, I do not see that the Soviets have hit the Ferdinands with sufficient hits or that they have hit them at close range.  Again, I would expect to put a hail-fire that would result in immobilizations and possible lower hull side hits.  Maybe you can just play out the remaining time (?) or break off a platoon from each flank and threaten flags deeper in the German area.


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Post #: 237
RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 2/5/2012 11:20:20 PM   
Mad Russian


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It was the Forty Fiction that started this whole project. To determine if that claim was even possible. I know of the Soviet Tank Aces list, I've referenced it on many occasions over the past few years.

The issue is, in open terrain the Soviets won't get close enough to the Ferdinands to destroy them. There is a single instance where a T-34 got a penetration but the round didn't detonate. So, after all that work they still didn't knock one out with a T-34.

At the moment we don't have a penetration of the armor either.

I see that you don't think that we've achieved enough hits to make a difference. However, at this point we have hit the Ferdinand's more often than they have hit T-34's.

The orders are for the T-34's to advance to point blank range. At this point you might as well move forward as to try to withdraw. Withdrawing means to stop and then reverse. I don't think the battalion would survive that action.

Good Hunting.

MR

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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Post #: 238
RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 2/5/2012 11:24:11 PM   
Yoozername

 

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How about a tac map?

i gotta go.  Giants fan.  y'know them?  the Cowboy-KILLERS!!!

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RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 2/6/2012 1:07:44 AM   
dazoline II


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For the Motherland all tanks forward! Urraah!
The Viet Minh General in We Were Soldiers: "We must advance and grab them by the belt buckle."

Reversal will just let the Germans follow at their leisure and pick off all the t34s at a comfortable range.




quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

It was the Forty Fiction that started this whole project. To determine if that claim was even possible. I know of the Soviet Tank Aces list, I've referenced it on many occasions over the past few years.

The issue is, in open terrain the Soviets won't get close enough to the Ferdinands to destroy them. There is a single instance where a T-34 got a penetration but the round didn't detonate. So, after all that work they still didn't knock one out with a T-34.

At the moment we don't have a penetration of the armor either.

I see that you don't think that we've achieved enough hits to make a difference. However, at this point we have hit the Ferdinand's more often than they have hit T-34's.

The orders are for the T-34's to advance to point blank range. At this point you might as well move forward as to try to withdraw. Withdrawing means to stop and then reverse. I don't think the battalion would survive that action.

Good Hunting.

MR



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