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RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt

 
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RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/25/2012 5:21:03 PM   
Yoozername

 

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It seems the enemy got eyes on us. The HT have backed off. The attack may be as simple as 'hey-diddle-diddle-strait-up-the-middle'. They are heading for flags.

I think this is illustrating one of the finer points of the game. Intel is key to making tactical decisions. The enemy, obviously, is not just 'over-there'.

I would want 1TC to get away from that forward slope in that formation. I was surprised at the LOS of that HT. It appears to be 900 meters or closer??? I still would want a platoon from 1TC to roll back and come up the back hill to dominate LOS, even for just a turn. Give them a cautious SOP so they fall back from heavy AT fire. The rest of 1TC can move up and hug the woods and deploy for a defensive stand.

2TC might re-arrange so that they can give flanking fire to the enemy attack that might be coming strait down the middle. 3TC would be the flanking attack once the enmy main force is discovered and 'fixed'. If they swing around the hill at the right moment, they could get the flank shots that spell doom for the heavy German armor.

I would not hold fire at this point. If the enemy has AFV like marders or stugs or turreted afv, they need to be taken out quickly before the Ferdinands are dealt with.






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< Message edited by Yoozername -- 1/25/2012 5:25:24 PM >

(in reply to Mad Russian)
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RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/25/2012 9:19:17 PM   
Mad Russian


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I'm concerned with putting a tank platoon back on Hill 253. That would put those tanks in a flank/rear orientation for a good part of the move if there are German AT assets on Hill 254. If we get LOS to them they will more than likely get an LOS to us. If they do, it will give them the best shots of this whole engagement. Not to mention the German guns are excellent at long range while ours are not.

I will do as ordered but I don't like those orders at all.

I would rather push the infantry forward instead. Leap them forward again to gain more LOS to the rest of Hill 254.

I have no problems with reorganizing 1st Tank Company further forward in the shadow of the trees.

Another issue I have, is to push the 3rd Tank Company forward with no reports of any kind what may be on the west side of Hill 254. We have no eyes on that side of the hill. There could be anything on that hill and I'd rather not deploy a single tank company forward, with little to no chance to support it, without some kind of recon effort first. Pushing 3rd Tank Company to the north at this time will isolate it in the extreme.

This would be very much an all or nothing kind of maneuver. If the Germans are coming down the east side of Hill 254 then 3rd Tank Company would hit them in the flank with devastating effect. However, if there are German AFV's on the west side of the hill the company would be left to fight alone.

Comments?

Good Hunting.

MR


< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 1/25/2012 9:28:17 PM >


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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Post #: 92
RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/25/2012 10:07:28 PM   
Yoozername

 

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I don't think anyone has suggested sending 3TC over/around the hill at this point.  I said to have this as an option: "3TC would be the flanking attack once the enemy main force is discovered and 'fixed'. If they swing around the hill at the right moment, they could get the flank shots that spell doom for the heavy German armor. Again, that depends on the Germans committing themselves forward.  I suspect the Germans will continue to probe forward but with heavier armor.

I think Mad Russian can't be as objective as the people giving the orders.  He DOES know what the Germans have.   But I want others to weigh in on what orders seem reasonable given the situation.  It seems that MR wants to get intel before doing anything but has issues with going to places on the map that might provide it.  If he wants to keep sending those infantry forward, I have no problem with that.  It's not like we came here with a battalion of tanks to save them.

To be honest, the Germans have not taken anything that most people have not conceded.  We have seen two half tracks.  They have backed off.  Again, I see no real need besides waiting for the Germans to commit. 

The Soviets more than likely have greater numbers and definitely have greater mobility.  The main goal, to me, is to use a concentration of force, hitting the Germans on 3 sides and drawing more blood than they do.

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RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/25/2012 10:43:06 PM   
Mad Russian


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I do know what they have. But I'm not sure how they will use it. This is the first playtest of this scenario. So, for me there's nothing other than the OOB that I know more than you do.

I will do what the rest of you want. I didn't say I wouldn't send tanks to the west. I just said I didn't think it was a good idea. If you send the 3rd Tank Company over there and they find German tanks there is a very high likelyhood that we could lose them. But again, if they advance unengaged then they will be in a tremendous position for a flank attack.

I think an infantry recon gone bad is cheaper than if a tank recon goes bad.

The same holds true about reversing a 1st Tank Company platoon and sending up the side of Hill 253. I don't think that's a good idea but if that's what you want to do, the orders will be given.

Your choice.

Good Hunting.

MR




< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 1/25/2012 10:57:22 PM >


_____________________________

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Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/25/2012 11:00:48 PM   
Mad Russian


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yoozername

I don't think anyone has suggested sending 3TC over/around the hill at this point.  I said to have this as an option: "3TC would be the flanking attack once the enemy main force is discovered and 'fixed'. If they swing around the hill at the right moment, they could get the flank shots that spell doom for the heavy German armor. Again, that depends on the Germans committing themselves forward.  I suspect the Germans will continue to probe forward but with heavier armor.



You're not the only putting forth suggestions.

How about slowly moving 3TC westward around the near hill and prepare for the possibility of flanking enemy armor.

Again, I don't think that moving the 3rd Tank Company forward at the moment with no recon of that side of the hill is a good idea.

As the Battalion Commander I do have a say in whether I like my orders or not. But, like all good Soviet commanders if the order stands we will execute it.

Good Hunting.

MR

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 1/26/2012 2:35:31 AM >


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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Post #: 95
RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/26/2012 12:07:06 AM   
Yoozername

 

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I will let other people weigh-in at this point.  I will just state the following:

If you don't want to move a tank platoon over that far,,,then just leave one tank platoon from 1TC where it is (one that CAN see something) and just get the rest of 1TC off the parade ground formation and closer to the woods.  Put the 1TC platoon in cautious SOP but give it a Fire order. 

All units should have a Fire order or at least a good-shot status.  I see no point in using hold-fire at this point.

Leave 3TC where it is (as I have said all along).  Give it an agressive SOP and a Fire order.

Arrange 2TC in an ambush stance facing NW so that it can fire at any Germans that come into the 'attack-arrow'.  I would be OK with using one platoon from 2Tc as rear security and even using one tank as a woods-recon.

The infantry platoon can be used as recon but I would want the other platoon to stay where it is.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 96
RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/26/2012 1:25:25 AM   
heinrich55

 

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I'm good with continuing to push the infantry further forward to see what is there.
Consolidation of the flanking force on the right flank is also good.

I'd like to ease 1TC forward gently into the woods behind the infantry there. The woods will give them a little cover and if the Germans see them first, they may not get eyes on the flank force. Perhaps they would be pinned forward, allowing the flank force to get in their licks first. Also, they could reverse back through the woods if the enemy force seemed too overwhelming.

Ready 3TC for a dash around the left side of 254. If the enemy force is pinned by 1TC and hit by the flank force, they will be in a quandry as to which way to turn. This would be the time that 3TC could shine by flanking from the other side. If there was a way to just push one tank forward around the edge of the hill, that might give us eyes if the Germans are also pushing down our left flank.

Heinrich55

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RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/26/2012 2:17:27 AM   
Mad Russian


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We can send a single tank from 3rd Tank Company to the west side of the hill if you like. We have that capacity. It would be the Company Commander.

Good Hunting.

MR


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The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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Post #: 98
RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/26/2012 2:33:54 AM   
Mad Russian


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I have my orders as:

Consolidate 2nd Tank Company to the east of Hill 254. Standard SOP with Good Shot Rules of Engagement(ROE).

Consolidate 1st Tank Company into the woods to north of their current position. Move 1 Platoon to the northeast and forward to get a better LOS of the hill. Main Body Standard SOP with Good Shot ROE. Recon element Cautious SOP with Good Shot ROE.

3rd Tank Company sends a single tank to the northwest of Hill 254. The rest of the company holds position. Aggressive SOP with Good Shot ROE.

1st Platoon moves forward 100 meters. Standard SOP with Close Assault ROE.

2nd Platoon hold position. Standard SOP with Close Assault ROE.

If there is anything that needs changed to the orders as I see them please clarify.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 1/26/2012 2:37:01 AM >


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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Post #: 99
RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/26/2012 5:19:32 AM   
Yoozername

 

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Good enough for me, roll dem bones.

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Post #: 100
RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/26/2012 5:37:19 AM   
eggmansdaddy

 

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No Offense, MR, but did you ever consider mapping your moves with milsketch?

You can find it here...

http://www.historicalsoftware.com/HSC/HSCmilsketch.htm

There's an example on Matrix here...

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2990518&mpage=1&key=�


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Post #: 101
RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/26/2012 6:30:46 AM   
Mad Russian


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No, what I've used are either the Map Maker terrain display or the terrain display blended with the height map.

I have all the information at my fingertips for using those and don't have to create a map to use.

Not sure how the milsketch would do at a level of 2km x 2km. That small an area often loses it's detail. So, I just went with what I already have available.

Good Hunting.

MR


< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 1/26/2012 6:31:51 AM >


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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Post #: 102
RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/27/2012 3:09:15 AM   
eggmansdaddy

 

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Hey, I'm not griping, just suggesting!

The important thing is the insights, not the eye candy!

Good luck, BTW.

Barry

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Post #: 103
RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/27/2012 3:54:12 AM   
Mad Russian


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I'll take a look at that tool though. I have some maps I could use displayed in another game....thanks for showing the the program in the first place.

I think eye candy is fairly important in an AAR. I tried to make this as much like being the commander on site as I could.

Good Hunting.

MR


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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Post #: 104
RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/27/2012 3:38:11 PM   
Yoozername

 

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I would request that there are more 'down-low' screenshots that show the T34s from right behind and what they are looking at/covering.

I don't consider MR the battalion commander.  More like the XO!

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Post #: 105
RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/27/2012 5:12:15 PM   
Mad Russian


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Okay, I'll get you more low level screen shots.

Good Hunting.

MR


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Yoozername)
Post #: 106
RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/27/2012 6:32:08 PM   
Mad Russian


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First things first. The business end of our Hero's tank.

Good Hunting.

MR




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_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 107
RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/27/2012 9:08:39 PM   
Yoozername

 

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Maybe hold off on the pics till after you burn the next turn.

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Post #: 108
RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/27/2012 9:12:55 PM   
Mad Russian


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I've done the next turn.

I'm just finishing up some things before I go in and convert the screen shots to jpg files. I have them all renamed and then I'll start converting them and adding them here. I just thought a picture of our hero was a good place to start.

Good Hunting.

MR


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Yoozername)
Post #: 109
RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/27/2012 10:22:13 PM   
Mad Russian


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As the 1st Platoon of infantry follows orders and moves up Hill 254 it can see the 2nd Tank Company in the distance. Both the Recon element and the main body trying to form back up to the east.

Good Hunting.

MR




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_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 110
RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/27/2012 10:24:34 PM   
Mad Russian


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Looking from the east down the line formation of 1st Infantry Platoon.

Good Hunting.

MR




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_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 111
RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/27/2012 10:26:49 PM   
Mad Russian


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Here is the overall move to engagment order for 1st Infantry Platoon.

Good Hunting.

MR




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_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 112
RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/27/2012 10:29:29 PM   
Mad Russian


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1st Tank Company plays hide and seek with the advance German units. Now you see them....

Good Hunting.

MR




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< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 1/27/2012 10:33:20 PM >


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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Post #: 113
RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/27/2012 10:31:41 PM   
Mad Russian


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....and now you don't.

Units with any kind of a movement order also are set wit a Take a Good Shot - ROE.

Good Hunting.

MR




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< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 1/27/2012 10:32:46 PM >


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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Post #: 114
RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/27/2012 10:36:05 PM   
Mad Russian


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1st Tank Company moves to rearrange it's combat formation with a single platoon forward and to the east, with the other two platoons forward and behind the trees.

Good Hunting.

MR




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_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 115
RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/27/2012 10:39:26 PM   
Mad Russian


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The Soviet tankers of 2nd Company rush forward to consolidate on what appears to be the German flank. Here they glimpse a German HT for a moment as they move to the northeast.

Radio messages are filling the airwaves as both sides try to find the enemy. As both sides maneuver to get into the best possible position before the shooting starts.

Who will win this all important battle of positioning before the fighting starts?

Good Hunting.

MR




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< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 1/27/2012 10:40:49 PM >


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 116
RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/27/2012 10:44:33 PM   
Mad Russian


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2nd Tank Company is moving as fast as it can to consolidate. The two segments are close to coming together.

Good Hunting.

MR




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_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 117
RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/27/2012 10:45:17 PM   
Mad Russian


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2nd Tank Company overall orders.

Good Hunting.

MR




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_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 118
RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/27/2012 10:48:14 PM   
Mad Russian


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3rd Tank Company Commander orders the company to remain in place as he does a personal recon of the west side of Hill 254.

Good Hunting.

MR




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_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 119
RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/27/2012 10:49:57 PM   
Mad Russian


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3rd Tank Companies position in the woods just to the southwest of Hill 254.

Good Hunting.

MR




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_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 120
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