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Elephant Hunt: Semi-Interactive AAR

 
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Elephant Hunt: Semi-Interactive AAR - 1/14/2012 2:34:36 PM   
Mad Russian


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Status: offline 		Well, here we are. Finally, the research is done, the map is made, the scenario has an OOB and objectives.

I'm doing one last save and adding the grass textures to the map.

Once that's done we can playtest this.

I'll put the units on the map and I will take my orders from you guys. We'll see how this works.

I should have a tactical map up here for us to look at and formulate a plan with by the end of the day.

Good Hunting.

MR

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 1/16/2012 4:46:34 PM >

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RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/15/2012 1:11:22 PM   
Mad Russian


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Status: offline 		This section of ground that I have chosen for our map has 3 hill masses on it, as well as two small sections of trees.

I've created a tactical map that shows the basic areas of the hill masses in relation to the roads in the area and the sections of trees.

Good Hunting.

MR






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< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 1/15/2012 1:20:06 PM >

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RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/15/2012 1:29:25 PM   
Mad Russian


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Status: offline 		Operational Situation:

With the attack stopped near Ponyri Station and the Germans turning their attention to Ol'khovatka, a stalemate situation is developing. 4th Panzer Division has been ordered to restart the offensive and punch a hole in the Soviet 70th Army area of operations. 19th Tank Corps has been ordered to stop the German offensive on the northern shoulder once and for all.

This is in the area of the 70th Army. The Soviet armored unit in the area at that time was the 19th Tank Corps.


Intelligence Report:

German forces identified in this area are the 4th Panzer Division. The division has begun intensive attacks moving steadily towards Ol'khovatka. The 19th Tank COrps will defend this area vigorously. The Germans have been in constant combat for two days. Their formations should be at the breaking point.



19th Tank Corps Orders:

To stop the 4th Panzer Division. 19th Tank Corps, lead by Major General I. D. Vasil'ev, will counterattack with the 101st Tank Brigade. Colonel I.V. Kurdupov , commander of the 101st Tank Brigade, who was awarded Hero of the Soviet Union for his part in the defense of Mtsensk in 1941, will advance to contact from northwest of Ol'khovatka from the blocking positions around Hill 253 and defeat the German offensive in this area.



Lt. Yerokhin will lead 2nd Company, 1st Battalion of the 101st Tank Brigade to engage the enemy. It will be your job to scout the way to the German advancing elements. The T-34's will have no problem dealing with the older, less capable German tanks.








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< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 1/15/2012 1:44:11 PM >

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RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/15/2012 1:55:00 PM   
Mad Russian


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Status: offline 		2nd Battalion, 101st Tank Brigade is at full strength. 3 companies of 10 T-34/76 Model 43's each.

We also have 2 platoons of infantry from the 26th Motor Rifle Brigade in front of our main positions near the two road intersections at the base of Hill 254.






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RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/15/2012 1:59:29 PM   
Mad Russian


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Status: offline 		What are your recommendations for deployment of our forces?

Infantry can only be deployed in the area next to the road at the base of Hill 254. No tanks can be deployed in this area but at some point tanks could load that infantry if we choose to.






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RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/15/2012 5:20:13 PM   
Ratzki

 

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Status: offline 		What is the approx. range that our units will be able to spot the enemy at?

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RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/15/2012 7:50:55 PM   
Mad Russian


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Status: offline 		The range will more than likely be determined by the LOS block of the hills.

This is definitely not flat ground.

Good Hunting.

MR


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RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/15/2012 9:50:27 PM   
dazoline II


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Status: offline 		Is the final objective hill 253?
What sort of artillery is to be expected?

It would be nice to get a lay of the land shot looking north west from the base of hill 253.

Without it...

I'd place some infantry near enough to the intersection to the right to get the most LOS on the ground between 248 and 254.
If there's any anti tank squads I'd put them in the woods close to the left intersection facing north and east.

I'd put one company of t34s on the reverse slope of 254 to the west.
I'd put the second company of tanks into any dead ground as seen from the north to the south of the eastern woods aimed and ready.

I'd put the command company of tanks along the reverse eastern slope of 254 on the road hidden by the woods.


I imagine 254 will be the major battle site probably right at the intersection on top of 254. unless the Germans drive right for 253. Then it will be the east most intersection or before it on the road. Also the winning tactics will be for the Russians to keep at least one company of tanks unengaged while the other two fix the attacking armor in place then using the unengaged company to flank the heavy armor. All armour elements should use reverse slope movement and prepare to be as mobile as possible.


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RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/15/2012 10:08:16 PM   
Mad Russian


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dazoline II

Is the final objective hill 253?
What sort of artillery is to be expected?


With the Germans advancing normal German artillery support may be expected. Keep in mind that during the initial operations of the German offensive Soviet artillery and air strikes targeted all known German artillery locations. Since that time their artillery support has been at a much lower participation level than normal.

We don't want to lose any of the ground we already own if possible. If we are to take the fight to the enemy we will need to advance toward the north edge of the battle zone. Gaining ground is secondary to destroying enemy units.

quote:


It would be nice to get a lay of the land shot looking north west from the base of hill 253.

Without it...

I'd place some infantry near enough to the intersection to the right to get the most LOS on the ground between 248 and 254.
If there's any anti tank squads I'd put them in the woods close to the left intersection facing north and east.


Being on the reverse side of Hill 254 all you would see would be the hill in front of you. As often as possible defenders used the reverse slopes of hills to limit the attackers concentration of fire on observed targets.

During the initial setup we can put them wherever we want and a platoon near each road intersection is a good plan. If we want we can move them forward or leave them where they are as the action starts to develop.

quote:


I'd put one company of t34s on the reverse slope of 254 to the west.
I'd put the second company of tanks into any dead ground as seen from the north to the south of the eastern woods aimed and ready.

I'd put the command company of tanks along the reverse eastern slope of 254 on the road hidden by the woods.



quote:


I imagine 254 will be the major battle site probably right at the intersection on top of 254. unless the Germans drive right for 253. Then it will be the east most intersection or before it on the road. Also the winning tactics will be for the Russians to keep at least one company of tanks unengaged while the other two fix the attacking armor in place then using the unengaged company to flank the heavy armor. All armour elements should use reverse slope movement and prepare to be as mobile as possible.



Staying as mobile as possible is a good idea.

That would indicate a central location but the Ferdinands will be invulnerable to our tank guns from the front. Which means we will need to flank them to bring effective fire on them.

Do you prefer your stated initial deployment for this?

Good Hunting.

MR

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RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/15/2012 10:21:00 PM   
junk2drive


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Status: offline 		Does the blue arrow indicate the German advance and the red boxes the Soviet setup zone?

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RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/15/2012 11:14:59 PM   
heinrich55

 

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Status: offline 		I like dazoline IIs thoughts on this. I'd keep the infantry in the woods on 254, but in sight of the two intersections closest to the woods, as noted for visibility.

I'd have one armor company to the far left, reverse slope of 254 with anticipated thrust up the left map edge and potential flanking of the main German push across the top of 254.

I'd set the center tank company in the sharp bend of the road along the back side of the woods, for a possible push through the woods onto 254 which would give them a little cover if they face off with German armor coming across 254. They could also pick up the infantry forward of them in the woods if feasible.

The third armor company would be off to the right, maybe on hill 253 if that was higher than 254. They'd be far enough back where they couldn't be seen by advancing German units coming across 254. This would allow them to rush up the right side of the map if the German advance were discovered pushing down our left flank, and allow them to take the enemy on the flank from that side.

I hate to split them up so much but it is a reconnaissance in force and we are trying to locate the enemy push.

Heinrich55

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RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/15/2012 11:23:00 PM   
Yoozername

 

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Status: offline 		Are there Victory Locations (flags)? 

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RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/15/2012 11:24:50 PM   
Mad Russian


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Status: offline 		Our Order of Battle then is:

2nd Battalion 101st Tank Brigade.
Cpt Levchenko - 1 tank - veteran

1st Company
SLt Belov -1 tank - veteran
Lt Moiseev - 3 tanks - veteran
Lt Svetiuk - 3 tanks - veteran
Sgt Linev - 3 tanks - green

2nd Company
Lt Yerokhin - 1 tank - elite
Lt Mashkov - 3 tanks - veteran
SSgt Makhno - 3 tanks - veteran
Sgt Volodin - 3 tanks - veteran

3rd Company
SLt Breslovets - 1 tank - veteran
Lt Lipichev - 3 tanks - green
SSgt Skvortsov - 3 tanks - green
Sgt Gushchin - 3 tanks - veteran


1st Company, 1st Battalion, 26th Motorized Rifle Brigade
1st Platoon
SLt Serduik - 3 squads - veteran

2nd Platoon
Lt Puzyrev - 3 squads - veteran

Good Hunting.

MR




< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 1/16/2012 4:37:33 PM >

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RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/16/2012 2:58:39 AM   
Mad Russian


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Status: offline 		Here are the objectives.

Good Hunting.

MR




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RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/16/2012 3:48:34 AM   
Yoozername

 

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Status: offline 		I believe the German density of indirect fire decreasing after the start of the offensive had more to do with the fact that many batteries were brought in to just be part of the opening barrage.  Including much 88mm FLAK batteries to fire indirect.  These were quickly shuffled back to where they came from since the Germans had left many areas woefully thin along the eastern front.  The Soviet pre-emptive bombardment was disruptive but I doubt it destroyed much in the way of artilly pieces themselves.

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RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/16/2012 4:01:17 AM   
Ratzki

 

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Status: offline 		It would be nice if we could get a platoon of infantry over to that other patch of woods, but with the hills looking like they do, this would likely be difficult. Plus we really have none to spare.
I too, like the flank idea presented earlier with some armor to the left of hill 254. I would place 1 & 2 Co. there, with 3 Co. on the road south of the infantry setup area with the woods as cover. If the enemy detects our suprise on the left flank we might be able to quickly move up the road and catch him facing the first 2 Co.'s.

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RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/16/2012 4:12:26 AM   
Yoozername

 

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Status: offline 		What is the scenario time length?  This may be a big factor for slow moving vehicles.

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RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/16/2012 4:21:35 AM   
junk2drive


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Status: offline 		There are no time limits in PCO.

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RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/16/2012 4:39:05 PM   
Mad Russian


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ratzki

It would be nice if we could get a platoon of infantry over to that other patch of woods, but with the hills looking like they do, this would likely be difficult. Plus we really have none to spare.



We could set an infantry platoon in the southeast of the infantry setup zone and have a tank platoon set up near them, load them and move them to the east woods if you like.

A big question to me is what do you think enemy intentions will be?

Will they advance rapidly? Come over the main part of Hill 254, move between Hill 248 and Hill 254? Secure Hill 254? Advance to Hill 253?

I would think that what you think the German intentions are would determine how you intend on stopping them.

If you think the Germans will move slowly then you have some time to reposition our infantry forces. Otherwise we may have to live with their blocking positions.

Good Hunting.

MR




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< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 1/16/2012 4:44:42 PM >

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RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/16/2012 6:36:04 PM   
Ratzki

 

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Status: offline 		I think tht we have to be ready to concede the three northern flagsalong the road. We have the best chances of defending the three flags closest to our setup zones. That leaves the one flag in the northeast where the road bends to be fought over. The trees can give some flank protection and with a platoon of infantry in the woods, we could have the troops take this flag as well as have somwhat of a jump point for any attacks westwards.

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RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/16/2012 7:05:23 PM   
Mobius


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Status: offline 		Are there any emplacements?

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RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/16/2012 7:56:25 PM   
Yoozername

 

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Status: offline 		Given the limited info on the Germans so far, I would go for the defensive scheme I sketched here.

I would expect the Germans to use long range overwatch from hill 248. The Germans will go for the flags and this channels the attack. I don't know how much time they have or if they get points for exiting AFV or units or what. Really hard to say anything definite given the limited info.

As the Soviets, I would conserve my forces and defend the 5 flags I seem to control. My ability to get a better victory might hinge on what happens in the KZ (killzone). I would want to hit the Germans on all sides there and even ram them if need be.

Again, I think that more map and unit information is needed to do anything but make general speculation.



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< Message edited by Yoozername -- 1/16/2012 8:02:41 PM >

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RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/16/2012 8:25:41 PM   
Yoozername

 

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Status: offline 		Another 'time' issue is how will the game be played as far as Orders/Reaction phases. 

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RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/16/2012 8:38:00 PM   
Mad Russian


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Status: offline 		The game is setup as a normal 40:40 sequence. 40 seconds for both the orders and reaction phases.

Good Hunting.

MR


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RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/16/2012 8:50:56 PM   
Mad Russian


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yoozername

Given the limited info on the Germans so far, I would go for the defensive scheme I sketched here.

I would expect the Germans to use long range overwatch from hill 248. The Germans will go for the flags and this channels the attack. I don't know how much time they have or if they get points for exiting AFV or units or what. Really hard to say anything definite given the limited info.

As the Soviets, I would conserve my forces and defend the 5 flags I seem to control. My ability to get a better victory might hinge on what happens in the KZ (killzone). I would want to hit the Germans on all sides there and even ram them if need be.

Again, I think that more map and unit information is needed to do anything but make general speculation.



That works for me. There really is no more map information to give you. These are open fields with some woods.

Lt. Yerokhin says, according to the text in the book, that his unit was told to advance. According to the text he was in the advance element of a battalion of tanks sent to stop the German advance rather than wait in place for them.

The orders I created in this scenario, concerning enemy forces, location, direction of attack are all standard issue orders from when I was in the Army in the mid-70's.

Lot's of time, if not most of the time, the information you know about the enemy is "they are over there, go get them." Meeting Engagements, which the text for this action implies, are even more notorious for having scanty details about the enemy.

That's why,in the text, our hero was leading the recon troops. The Soviets didn't know where the Germans were. So, I'm playing along with what seems to be just about normal fare for the way the Soviets conducted some of their attacks/counterattacks.

Good Hunting.

MR

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 1/16/2012 9:45:36 PM >

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RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/17/2012 2:49:57 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 10238
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Status: offline 		Unless I hear differently this is where the units will be placed.

TC = Tank Company

Plt = Infantry Platoon

Good Hunting.

MR




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RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/17/2012 6:35:15 AM   
Ratzki

 

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Status: offline 		I'd like to see that 2TC over with the 3TC, but we can see what happens with it where it is now.

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RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/17/2012 2:28:13 PM   
Yoozername

 

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Status: offline 		I would want the 2nd TC as far forward and on the right as possible. This gives some eyes on all the road network without leaving the 2nd company exposed if the Germans get setup on the map and can see the unit right off the bat. Where the German mobile units are at the start will be a big factor. My goal would be to setup a mobile ambush so that at least one of the Soviet tank companies is hitting the enemy in the flank. For the Soviets to charge over/around hill 254 at the start of the scenario would throw away any advantage that they have right now.

Soviet recon for a tank battalion would be a 3 tank platoon typically. I will try to position 2nd Company:Lt Yerokhin - 1 tank - elite plus one vet platoon through the woods on the right. The other two vet platoons will hold firing positions that cover the KZ.

I have seen one source that states the 4th Panzer as having:

I./ PR 35 with 1 Pz Kw IV F; 95 Pz Kw IV Ausf. G and H; 6 Pz Bf Wg III.

I./ Pz GR 12 mechanized with Sd Kfz 251 (102).
II./ Pz GR 12 motorized with Sd Kfz 70, Opel Blitz and Maultier.

Pz GR 33 motorized.

I./ PAR 103 with Le FH 18.
II./ PAR 103 4 and 5 batteries with 6 Wespe each and 6. Battery with 6 Hummel.
III./ PAR 103 7. Battery with K 18 (100 mm) towed; 8. and 9. batteries with sFH 18 (150 mm) towed.

Pz Jäg Abt 49; 1, 2 and 3. companies with 8 Marder II each and 4. company with 8 pak 75 mm towed.

Plus 13 LIG 75 mm; 3 sIG 33 150 mm; 43 mortars 81 mm; 858 MG.

Manpower: 403 Offs; 2439 NCOs; 9972 Enlisted men; 258 hiwis and 94 officials.

Source: 4 Pz Division Kursk 1943. Wydawnictwo Militaria Nº 97. 1999.

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RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/17/2012 2:52:24 PM   
Mobius


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Status: offline 		The area looks typical of the Kursk Salient geography. Low rolling hill/ridges about 1-2 kilometers apart. The Russian could fortify the forward side of a hill with AT guns in emplacements. Their tanks could occupy the rear of the hill with their tanks to take on the Germans at short range when they rolled over the crest.

A tactic the German would use is to shoot from the crest of one hill to clear out the depression below them. That is when Soviet artillery could spot them and the German couldn't remain stationary for long before heavy artillery fell on.

Hopefully, MR gives the Soviets some artillery this time.

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Post #: 29
RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Elephant Hunt - 1/17/2012 4:36:12 PM   
Mad Russian


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From: Texas
Status: offline 		Sorry, the AAR from our Elephant hunter never mentions artillery. I'm sure the he wanted all the glory for himself.

Here then is the final setup as given to me.

Good Hunting.

MR




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