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RE: Don't blame our virtual admirals...real ones are.... - 1/17/2012 6:19:36 PM   
GreyJoy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

The Italian Coast Guard is apparently after the Captain's head:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2017257923_apeuitalycruiseaground.html

Schettino has insisted that he stayed aboard until the ship was evacuated. However, a recording of his conversation with Italian Coast Guard Capt. Gregorio De Falco that emerged Tuesday indicates he fled before all passengers were off - and then resisted De Falco's repeated orders to return.

"You go on board and then you will tell me how many people there are. Is that clear?" De Falco shouted in the audio tape.

Schettino resisted, saying the ship was tipping and it was dark. At the time, he and his second-in-command were in a lifeboat and the captain said he was coordinating the rescue from there. He also said he was not going back on board the ship "because the other lifeboat is stopped." Passengers have said many lifeboats on the exposed port side of the ship didn't winch down after the ship had capsized.

De Falco shouted back: "And so what? You want to go home, Schettino? It is dark and you want to go home? Get on that prow of the boat using the pilot ladder and tell me what can be done, how many people there are and what their needs are. Now!"

"You go aboard. It is an order. Don't make any more excuses. You have declared 'Abandon ship,' now I am in charge," De Falco shouted.

At one point, De Falco vowed "I'm going to make sure you get in trouble. ...I am going to make you pay for this. Go on board, (expletive)!"

Schettino was finally heard agreeing to reboard on the tape. But the coast guard has said he never went back, and had police arrest him on land.




If you only could listen to his voice...his tone...damned coward...11 deaths confirmed by now and 20 more people still missing...

(in reply to bradfordkay)
Post #: 31
RE: Don't blame our virtual admirals...real ones are.... - 1/18/2012 2:30:19 PM   
chesmart


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Agreed Greyjoy heard the recording on the coriere site, Schettino should be imprisoned for a long time. He and his officers lied repeatedly to the Italian coastguard by refusing to declare an emergency when they hit the rocks and then by abandoning ship and leaving the coast guard S&R officer who landed by helicopter by himself to finish the rescue. The Coastguard captain is the real hero of the story. He started S&R before the captain declared an emergency and had his assets in place before an emergency was declared and they where ready to take over from the ships officers who panicked and left the crew and passengers aboard. Moments like these show the professionalism of the marina millitare.

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Post #: 32
RE: Don't blame our virtual admirals...real ones are.... - 1/18/2012 2:37:35 PM   
cohimbra


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Hi, I don't think that the Coastguard captain is an hero (don't misunderstand me), simple he is a military,
and he did what he had to do...the other captain...well, it's evident.

< Message edited by cohimbra -- 1/18/2012 2:39:46 PM >

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Post #: 33
RE: Don't blame our virtual admirals...real ones are.... - 1/18/2012 6:08:29 PM   
chesmart


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Cohimbra he started S&R before a distress call was sent by the ship if he waited for the distress more people would have died. He took the decision after calling the ship and the officers on deck told the coast guard that every thing is ok and that it was a minor electrical problem. The first call the coast guard received was by a passenger who said the ship hit something and they lost electricity. Imagine if he waited for the distress call from the ship.

(in reply to cohimbra)
Post #: 34
RE: Don't blame our virtual admirals...real ones are.... - 1/18/2012 7:27:30 PM   
crsutton


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quote:

ORIGINAL: 21pzr
All it will do is be used by Costa Cruises to deny responsibility and throw the Captain and the officers under the bus: "We have written policies about this, obviously the Captain did not follow them, so how could we know and be responsible for this awful tragedy". Just watch and see.

Bill


Bill,

I made this exact same comment to my wife yesterday. The only letter to the editor that I ever wrote (well, that got published) was to Time Magazine following their article on the Exxon Valdes accident. (Hazlewood was on the cover) In it I said that the captain was always responsible no matter but also something to the effect that reduction of the crews and outside pressure on the captain and crew to move cargo no matter what was the real reason for the disaster.

This captain will hang, but this is not all his fault and many won't hang who should.

Thanks for the info. A merchant ship bridge is a lot different from the last time I was on one (1985) The saddest part is that with voice recorders and video cameras, the (ahem) typical sailor conversations found on the bridge back then would have to be suppressed. Lot of philosopher kings to be found on the midnight to 4 watch... And many a discourse that would not suit the recorded record.


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(in reply to 21pzr)
Post #: 35
RE: Don't blame our virtual admirals...real ones are.... - 1/18/2012 7:35:33 PM   
crsutton


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sandman455


quote:

ORIGINAL: 21pzr

. . . His main failure was abandoning the vessel before the passengers. . .


Here is a different perspective.

As a former officer in a navy and as a company owner I see the captain's main failure is that he totally disregarded his mission. Getting off the dying vessel too early isn't even on the radar. He totals a $500 million asset, kills some of his passengers and wrecks an entire industry. You realize he has left thousands unemployed and thousands more will follow. Everyone one with that company, cruise ship industry and the industries that support them will feel the pain. Ships sink and people die but not for getting closer to the shore so better pictures can be taken or so folks can actually see who they are waving at. This is an obscenity to all who have ever been entrusted with such responsibility.

It would have been 10x better if he was drunk and passed out on the Lido deck. At least then his employer and all who are following the story could relate to something classified as an illness. Something that could have been hidden. Instead all he had was bad judgment and that is exactly the stuff everyone tries so hard to weed out before they delegate so much responsibility to the individual. It is a nightare the few could understand unless you actually entrusted someone with so much.

A person in command of a vessel whether in a military or a civilian has responsibilities. They do not include making folks happy - ever. To think otherwise is to clearly not see it from the perspective of those who own that ship and fund his paycheck. They care about the passengers being happy, but they don't pay this man to worry about it. He's there to protect their investment and to carry out a mission that is as simple and as complex as getting them from point A to point B safe and sound. That is it.

When you completely disregard this all encompassing mission, it doesn't really matter if you push passengers out of the way to jump off first. It's inconsequential.



Well I agree with the exception that I doubt this will have very little impact on the industry overall. There have been plenty of cruise ship foul ups over the past decade but the industry has weathered the storm and should do just fine. I don't see people walking away from cruise ships as a result of this. The public generally has a short memory about these things. This was a scary accident but I don't think many view it as a major disaster.


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Post #: 36
RE: Don't blame our virtual admirals...real ones are.... - 1/19/2012 4:23:46 AM   
Chickenboy


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Thought of you lot when I saw this...




Attachment (1)

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RE: Don't blame our virtual admirals...real ones are.... - 1/19/2012 7:53:15 AM   
Oliver Heindorf


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Looking  at my Combat replay report as I read my tracker Alerts, I found out that his father probabply served in WWII as well. I lost AO Neches, sunk by unkown devices. Looking at the combat report the day before it says: "Fires are out of control at AO Neches. Ship cannot be saved." Thanks !!!




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RE: Don't blame our virtual admirals...real ones are.... - 1/19/2012 2:52:19 PM   
cohimbra


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quote:

ORIGINAL: che200

Cohimbra he started S&R before a distress call was sent by the ship if he waited for the distress more people would have died. He took the decision after calling the ship and the officers on deck told the coast guard that every thing is ok and that it was a minor electrical problem. The first call the coast guard received was by a passenger who said the ship hit something and they lost electricity. Imagine if he waited for the distress call from the ship.



you tell the truth, but he has done what is expected of a commander of captaincy or any other person with similar responsibilities. In my opinion you should not praise 'the norm', but rather to highlight the incompetence.

PS forgive me if I write mistakes, I find difficult to understand and write in english...
have not been a good student

(in reply to chesmart)
Post #: 39
RE: Don't blame our virtual admirals...real ones are.... - 1/19/2012 4:04:20 PM   
chesmart


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Se vuoi possiamo usare l Italiano.

Well he is part of the Marina Millitare which has always had very high standards for her captains so to an extent you are right.

(in reply to cohimbra)
Post #: 40
RE: Don't blame our virtual admirals...real ones are.... - 1/19/2012 6:54:53 PM   
bradfordkay

 

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Sometimes the job requires heroes. The coast guard captain did not wait for the distress call nor for orders from above. He moved decisively and rapidly to take control of a situation that was endangering many lives and as a result fewer lives were lost. The job required a hero, and he filled those shoes nicely.

Just one man's opinion...


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fair winds,
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(in reply to chesmart)
Post #: 41
RE: Don't blame our virtual admirals...real ones are.... - 1/20/2012 12:24:47 PM   
Apollo11


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Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Thought of you lot when I saw this...






Check this out - plotted course (including speed) of "Costa Concordia" - watch using 720p HD option for best detail!


Grounding of the Costa Concordia

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5mbKt7rQkQ


If this is genuine (and it looks that way) - this is simply terrible - absolute negligence on the behalf of the captain!


Leo "Apollo11"

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Post #: 42
RE: Don't blame our virtual admirals...real ones are.... - 1/20/2012 12:39:42 PM   
Sardaukar


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Post #: 43
RE: Don't blame our virtual admirals...real ones are.... - 1/20/2012 1:37:09 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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On the news you can see a video with a member of the crew telling the passengers "no problem, go back to your cabins"... I know this is unfair but when I thought about cruiser ships captains... I thought about carnival captains. In this case these guys are beyond parody. A carnival captain and crew.

Authentic captains and crews? Those in charge of fishing boats and merchant marine ships

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Post #: 44
RE: Don't blame our virtual admirals...real ones are.... - 1/20/2012 4:23:41 PM   
dorjun driver


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An interesting read from the Court of Grosseto. (PDF file)



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RE: Don't blame our virtual admirals...real ones are.... - 1/20/2012 5:24:17 PM   
Shark7


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quote:

ORIGINAL: che200

Cohimbra he started S&R before a distress call was sent by the ship if he waited for the distress more people would have died. He took the decision after calling the ship and the officers on deck told the coast guard that every thing is ok and that it was a minor electrical problem. The first call the coast guard received was by a passenger who said the ship hit something and they lost electricity. Imagine if he waited for the distress call from the ship.


It is a good example of some one who is a leader (the coastguard S&R Officer) and some one who had no business being in command (the ship captain). The Coastgaurd S&R officer realized the true extent of the situation and took the appropriate action, the ship's captain proved to be incompetent. Just my humble opinion.

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RE: Don't blame our virtual admirals...real ones are.... - 1/22/2012 1:13:14 PM   
Apollo11


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Hi all,

BTW, here is picture derived from the GPS track (of the video that I posted link above) - God only knows whet they tried to accomplish with the maneuvering after collision...




Leo "Apollo11"

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RE: Don't blame our virtual admirals...real ones are.... - 1/22/2012 2:30:21 PM   
Ambassador

 

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Try to reach Livorno or Genoa (or another bigger harbour than Giglio), before realizing that they couldn't make it ?  25 minutes between shock and U-turn, count several minutes of hesitation, several minutes for the captain to return to the bridge, time to discuss options, to get accurate information from the lower decks...  I'm not that surprised it took this time before admitting the ship was lost.

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Post #: 48
RE: Don't blame our virtual admirals...real ones are.... - 1/22/2012 2:36:06 PM   
cohimbra


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ambassador
Try to reach Livorno or Genoa (or another bigger harbour than Giglio), before realizing that they couldn't make it ? 


You're right, he say that he try to reach Savona (near Genova).


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Post #: 49
RE: Don't blame our virtual admirals...real ones are.... - 1/22/2012 3:01:20 PM   
Cyber Me

 

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According to dorjun driver's link to the Court of grosseto: the ship lost engine power after five of the engine rooms began to take on water. Also a blackout throughout the ship. The ship was on "inertia and rudders" so you would expect a slightly expected surprising course at first. The ship would have continued north while the captain was in contact with the company bosses to work out what to do. But after an hour it was obvious the the ship was lost and Schettino decided to beach the ship to make a rescue easier. Thus the 180 turn and headed onto the beach. Schettino had no intention of over seeing the evacuation of his passages and crew and stayed in a launch for more than an hour.




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RE: Don't blame our virtual admirals...real ones are.... - 1/22/2012 5:51:18 PM   
21pzr

 

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Interesting read from the court. As I've stated in previous post, the ship is most likely a "two compartment ship", so that if 5 compartments were flooding, there was never any hope of saving her. If the damage control reports correctly stated this, and the engine rooms are monitored by video camera as well as in person, as there are usually 12-16 watertight compartments in the engineering spaces, he should have realized immediately, that the only hope was grounding. I will have to search some, to see if I can find the statements of the Chief Engineer, as to why the ship lost power completely. It can happen, and does happen, but with the redundancy aboard cruise ships, I'm a little surprised. However, look at the Carnival ship that lost power for several days off Baja. The video I saw of the crewmember telling the guests to return to their cabins showed all lights on, which would only happen if the main power was on. As all cruise ships are diesel-electric propulsion, if a main generator was on, they should have been able to get at least steerageway on the main motors (or pods), or the thrusters at the very least. They would also have had full emergency bilge pumping cabability. The Chief Engineer, as the head of the technical department, and the Staff Chief Engineer as the "on scene commander" for all emergencies SHOULD have been in the Engine Control Room during a restricted water maneuver like this, and therefore would have been immediately aware of the danger. The Staff Chief can "recommend" abandoning ship to the captain, but the captain is the only one who can legally make that decision. Even if the captain was not on the bridge, he would normally have a pager, push-to-talk phone, or hand-held radio that the bridge watch could have notified him via. Sorry, while the time between striking the reef and the turn is not unreasonable, the guests should have been mustered as soon as there was reports of flooding. Even if they have to stand there several hours with their lifejackets on, at least there is some chance of having accountability for everyone. Very likely, some of the fatalities were from heart attacks caused by fear and stress. Keep the guests at station, and if the crew WERE to be successful and stem the flooding, send the guests back to their cabins with promises of free drinks for the rest of the voyage.

Bill

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Post #: 51
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