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RE: Pelton vs JV

 
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RE: Pelton vs JV - 2/13/2012 1:46:10 AM   
Pelton


Posts: 4374
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		AGS




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

On leave until 9/13

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 31
RE: Pelton vs JV - 2/13/2012 10:44:30 AM   
Pelton


Posts: 4374
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		Turn 10
German Arm PTs in pool= 47,000
German Manpower in pool= 160,000
Russian units destroyed after November 1st 1941 =
Russian losses this turn: 160,000 Total dead: 1,652,000
Russian OOB: 4,500,000
A net gain of: 0 men
Russian units currently in a pocket:
GHC OOB: 3,215,000
GHC net OOB change:0






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

On leave until 9/13

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 32
RE: Pelton vs JV - 2/13/2012 10:45:12 AM   
Pelton


Posts: 4374
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		AGC




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

On leave until 9/13

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 33
RE: Pelton vs JV - 2/13/2012 10:45:48 AM   
Pelton


Posts: 4374
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		AGS




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

On leave until 9/13

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 34
RE: Pelton vs JV - 2/14/2012 2:25:25 AM   
Pelton


Posts: 4374
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		Turn 11
German Arm PTs in pool= 47,000
German Manpower in pool= 270,000
Russian units destroyed after November 1st 1941 =
Russian losses this turn: 106,000 Total dead: 1,758,000
Russian OOB: 4,534,000
A net gain of: 0 men
Russian units currently in a pocket:
GHC OOB: 3,252,000
GHC net OOB change:0





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

On leave until 9/13

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 35
RE: Pelton vs JV - 2/14/2012 2:28:23 AM   
Pelton


Posts: 4374
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		Turn 12
German Arm PTs in pool= 7,000
German Manpower in pool= 218,000
Russian units destroyed after November 1st 1941 =
Russian losses this turn: 143,000 Total dead: 1,915,000
Russian OOB: 4,515,000
A net gain of: 0 men
Russian units currently in a pocket:
GHC OOB: 3,174,000
GHC net OOB change:0

Leningrad falls and 4th PZ and 18th army head south.






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

On leave until 9/13

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 36
RE: Pelton vs JV - 2/14/2012 2:29:23 AM   
Pelton


Posts: 4374
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		AGS pockets a few units.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

On leave until 9/13

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 37
RE: Pelton vs JV - 2/14/2012 1:24:45 PM   
AFV


Posts: 371
Joined: 12/24/2011
From: Dallas, Texas
Status: offline 		Turn 12 said 7,000 armament points in pool, that right or a typo and should be 47,000 ?

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 38
RE: Pelton vs JV - 2/14/2012 5:06:32 PM   
Pelton


Posts: 4374
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AFV

Turn 12 said 7,000 armament points in pool, that right or a typo and should be 47,000 ?


No just 7,000. Hmm thats not good. Thats a huge loss to big for 1 turn. I had better check out my other games. Hopefully the armament bug is not back.

Crap I have 2 games that both lost 40000+ in one turn. I have to check other ones to see if its a bad trend.

Thanks for picking up on that.

< Message edited by Pelton -- 2/14/2012 5:08:12 PM >

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

On leave until 9/13

(in reply to AFV)
Post #: 39
RE: Pelton vs JV - 2/15/2012 3:57:06 PM   
Savanniperkele


Posts: 64
Joined: 7/6/2005
Status: offline 		About the armaments hit. Isn't it so that the German divisions which were fatigued and some even pushed back during the supply shortage from parachute operation around turn 9 received their replacements now at one go when the rail lines were finally fixed?

Here's a screen capture from turn 12 soviet side. Pelton forgot to show off how well the Romanians are doing with Odessa still in the Soviet hands. The city is censored as after a month from this picture Odessa is still safe.

The allied troops have been beaten near Crimean peninsula as well. Lets see if Germans are called to help.

--

By the way, how many armaments points have you captured as I have messed my calculations already?






Attachment (1)

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 40
RE: Pelton vs JV - 2/16/2012 12:23:28 AM   
Pelton


Posts: 4374
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Savanniperkele

About the armaments hit. Isn't it so that the German divisions which were fatigued and some even pushed back during the supply shortage from parachute operation around turn 9 received their replacements now at one go when the rail lines were finally fixed?

Here's a screen capture from turn 12 soviet side. Pelton forgot to show off how well the Romanians are doing with Odessa still in the Soviet hands. The city is censored as after a month from this picture Odessa is still safe.

The allied troops have been beaten near Crimean peninsula as well. Lets see if Germans are called to help.

--

By the way, how many armaments points have you captured as I have messed my calculations already?







I have not been counting sorry. I haven't bothered the last few games as most poeple rail them out now.
Basicly go after Manpower centers is all one can do as German now.

You have to post your own good stuff, heheh

Feel free to post away.


_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

On leave until 9/13

(in reply to Savanniperkele)
Post #: 41
RE: Pelton vs JV - 2/16/2012 12:28:27 AM   
Pelton


Posts: 4374
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		Turn 13
German Arm PTs in pool= 0,000
German Manpower in pool= 180,000
Russian units destroyed after November 1st 1941 =
Russian losses this turn: 86,000 Total dead: 2,001,000
Russian OOB: 4,577,000
A net gain of: 65,000
Russian units currently in a pocket: 10
GHC OOB: 3,250,000
GHC net OOB change:+74,000

AGN: Goals meet and operations are done other then moving lines east. 18th and 4PG are headed to AGS
JV has allot more troops then he should have up here
Hopefully I can find the weak spots that he will have in his lines to the south or possibly center.






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

On leave until 9/13

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 42
RE: Pelton vs JV - 2/16/2012 12:30:05 AM   
Pelton


Posts: 4374
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		AGC: Goals meet other then pushing east, unless he gives me something. 2nd and 3rd PG headed to AGS.
Hoping for big things in south with a possible thrust from south towards Moscow.





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

On leave until 9/13

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 43
RE: Pelton vs JV - 2/16/2012 12:33:39 AM   
Pelton


Posts: 4374
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		AGS: The most to gain now is in the south so I am transferring 2-4 PG and 18th to this area of operations. Moscow for now is out of reach plus there are far more manpower centers from Tula south then around Moscow. Easyer Terrain also.
Come the summer of 1942 all these forses will need to be in south anyways. I will pocket what I can and roll up as much land as possible so I can give it back during blizzard.
Recon has detected a soft spot in the SHC lines several hundred miles long and we have 2 rail heads in the area.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

On leave until 9/13

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 44
RE: Pelton vs JV - 9/9/2012 10:02:48 AM   
Savanniperkele


Posts: 64
Joined: 7/6/2005
Status: offline 		Pelton,

Its time to face the music or admit your defeat. It's not very pretty when you go on posting day after day that you won all the games you ended in 1941. Now you are losing even before winter. Your losses are manageable thou, at most couple of divisions. Your attack plan has faced a serous setback but are you a coward and only abuse the game mechanics and mistakes made by others when you are winning? Or can you stand up and face the music?

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 45
RE: Pelton vs JV - 9/9/2012 1:36:51 PM   
Pelton


Posts: 4374
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Savanniperkele

Pelton,

Its time to face the music or admit your defeat. It's not very pretty when you go on posting day after day that you won all the games you ended in 1941. Now you are losing even before winter. Your losses are manageable thou, at most couple of divisions. Your attack plan has faced a serous setback but are you a coward and only abuse the game mechanics and mistakes made by others when you are winning? Or can you stand up and face the music?


First off to be blunt I had several reports from other players that you are a possible reloader.

2nd its only turn 13, not sure what turn it is as I deleted game long ago and called it a draw. Thats what the 3 draws are.

3rd I appear to be doing better then norrmal not worse.

If you like to restart a server game I be more then happy to play you once 1 of my other 5 games is over, other wise I am not going to waste 100's of hours of play time on someone I and others are not sure about.

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

On leave until 9/13

(in reply to Savanniperkele)
Post #: 46
RE: Pelton vs JV - 9/9/2012 1:53:05 PM   
Savanniperkele


Posts: 64
Joined: 7/6/2005
Status: offline 		An Outrage from loosing Pelton!

How come? Please come forward as that is a a utter lie from you. You cannot name anyone to support your claim as you have invented this from your head! Outrageous. I demand apologies for your utter fiction.

The truth is that you are loosing this game and ran and now you are making up poor lies!

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 47
RE: Pelton vs JV - 9/9/2012 2:00:22 PM   
Savanniperkele


Posts: 64
Joined: 7/6/2005
Status: offline 		Please name someone supporting your smear!

The truth is that, and what you might not have known:

There is only one real friend apart from you that I have played e-mail game so your lies are very sadly founded as everyone can see: That friend do not know even my identity in this forum so he possibly cannot have contacted you apart from me playing fair with him as everyone else. Your throwing up dirt like this is a grave insult without apologies and withdrawal of this attempted smear on my reputation.


(in reply to Savanniperkele)
Post #: 48
RE: Pelton vs JV - 9/9/2012 3:06:05 PM   
Savanniperkele


Posts: 64
Joined: 7/6/2005
Status: offline
And about your claim of doing "better" in this game you unilaterally ran from. Its turn 15. We all know you attempted your vain armaments grapping strategy. Soviet Union has 380 armament factory points compared to 370 they start with. So with your strategy you have an increase of 10 armaments factories to soviet side. (Didn't count how many you could take, not many as everyone can see).

The game was in state in which the Leningrad was hard to hold and you could take it with Smolensk and Dnepropetrovsk. You failed to take even Odessa. Your attempt of encircling the Kharkov with your exploitation of game engine of using only Romanian railroads has met a disaster as 2/3 of your forces including all of your mobile forces have been cut out from supply. You were already demonstrated the effect of soviet paratroopers acting en masse and you were reminded of how you have left your supply vulnerable with game tactics of feeding most of the attacking forces trough only one railroad, but you didn't care or you failed to understand what you were told. You were lured in a trap to central Russia where I knew I should be able to cut your supply. Now you are loosing big time and you dare to claim that you were doing better then average. If anyone wants to believe this, please go ahead and listen to the Peltons outrageous claims of him having "had several reports from other players that [I am] a possible reloader." as he dishonorably lies.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton


quote:

ORIGINAL: Savanniperkele

Pelton,

Its time to face the music or admit your defeat. It's not very pretty when you go on posting day after day that you won all the games you ended in 1941. Now you are losing even before winter. Your losses are manageable thou, at most couple of divisions. Your attack plan has faced a serous setback but are you a coward and only abuse the game mechanics and mistakes made by others when you are winning? Or can you stand up and face the music?


First off to be blunt I had several reports from other players that you are a possible reloader.

2nd its only turn 13, not sure what turn it is as I deleted game long ago and called it a draw. Thats what the 3 draws are.

3rd I appear to be doing better then norrmal not worse.

If you like to restart a server game I be more then happy to play you once 1 of my other 5 games is over, other wise I am not going to waste 100's of hours of play time on someone I and others are not sure about.





Attachment (1)

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 49
RE: Pelton vs JV - 9/10/2012 3:17:16 AM   
Ketza


Posts: 2029
Joined: 1/14/2007
From: Columbia, Maryland
Status: offline 		Board drama.

Woohoo!

(in reply to Savanniperkele)
Post #: 50
RE: Pelton vs JV - 9/10/2012 8:01:37 AM   
Savanniperkele


Posts: 64
Joined: 7/6/2005
Status: offline 		Yeah Ketza,

I skinned Pelton and when he ran without a word and dropped the game like a child I earned the right to call him Peltoff. Even before I called him that (as this is the first time), he started inventing some little green men, who he tells us are vouching for that I cheated! He cannot produce a single witness to he's outrageous case as he's one I play email. My other opponent is very honorable and he has sent me supportive message in this already.

I am seriously thinking that Freud could help us here. Who has shown himself being morally capable of spreading spiteful lies and who started to accuse someone playing cleanly. Perhaps Pelton himself is a notorious reloader as he is smearer of someones reputation with lies.

I seriously recommend anyone considering playing with Pelton to quit because:
1. If you win - he wont admit it.
2. He might start spreading lies about some invisible reporters (non existent) telling him that you are suspected cheater by reloading!
3. And when all this is cleared he will start pretending he's deaf.

< Message edited by Savanniperkele -- 9/10/2012 8:02:38 AM >

(in reply to Ketza)
Post #: 51
RE: Pelton vs JV - 9/27/2012 6:38:59 PM   
Savanniperkele


Posts: 64
Joined: 7/6/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton
I deleted game long ago and called it a draw. Thats what the 3 draws are.


You have been resent the 15th turn again around a month ago, so you could continue if you dared. But you are still boasting straight 10 wins in your every post even with you fleeing the game without a word.

And you have refused to respond Erik about the lies you spread here. Shame on you.

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 52
RE: Pelton vs JV - 9/27/2012 8:22:40 PM   
Klydon

 

Posts: 1878
Joined: 11/28/2010
Status: offline 		My two cents as someone who doesn't have a dog in this fight and from just what I am seeing here.

First off, I would have quit on you Sav and not called it a "loss" either after the paratroop drop. You can be all upset about how some Germans may use "double" repair on a single line, but even if Pelton had played it "straight", all you need is a extra paratrooper on the other line to effective do the same thing if not worse. The absolute disruption this causes (effectively costs the Germans 2-3 turns easy) is so broken that it was fixed rather quickly not only by 2 by 3, but also the community in general when it became known it was being done. Players adapted house rules to prevent its use until a patch came out.

Next, while Pelton didn't make a big deal of it, there is mention of armaments pool issues, which has been known to plague games before and is grounds for a restart imo since it can't really be fixed in an exisiting game.

I can't speak to the charge that Sav is a reloader and won't because I simply don't know one way or the other and have not heard either way (not that anyone sees fit to send me a pile of PM's about how other players are).

As far as the game goes itself. holding Odessa really doesn't mean a ton at this point and Pelton could fix that issue rather rapidly. The rest of the game looks to be a toss up with the Germans capturing Leningrad and making good progress in the south. That the Germans didn't get further in the center speaks volumes of the disruption of the paratrooper brigade manuver. Still, Pelton is far enough there that he has room to fall back and if the Russians really want to chase him there, I am sure he would welcome it. In short, I don't see either side really crippled here, although the Germans are operating at a disadvantage because of the fallout from the paratrooper issues and possible armaments issues.

I would call this game more of a incomplete or draw and would suggest both players go for a rematch. If that should be a server game or a email game, that is up to the players.

(in reply to Savanniperkele)
Post #: 53
RE: Pelton vs JV - 9/27/2012 9:21:14 PM   
M60A3TTS

 

Posts: 794
Joined: 5/13/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Savanniperkele
And you have refused to respond Erik about the lies you spread here.


Under the circumstances, I think Erik would be justified in temporarily banning you from the WiTE forum for a cooling off period.

He closed the other thread in which you made your case and I think Erik's last message was pretty clear: enough is enough. But now you've chosen to take up the same arguments here.

I played Pelton too, all the way to the Summer of '43. At no time did I ever get the sense he was doing anything improper and for me it was the best way to get up the WiTE learning curve. I would certainly not now be playing Saper222 who may be an even better Axis player without my experience against Pelton.

He has offered to do a re-match with you once he can get clear of one of his current games. My advice to you is take him up on the offer, then do an AAR showing everyone how you beat him. You'll get far more support from the community than going down your present path.

(in reply to Savanniperkele)
Post #: 54
RE: Pelton vs JV - 9/27/2012 10:16:00 PM   
Aurelian

 

Posts: 1442
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: online 		Sav, as one who also has no dog in this fight, I'd advise you to let it go.

I've had people just disappear. I've had people who crow when winning and whine when losing.

Best thing to do is just not play them. And move on.

_____________________________



(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 55
RE: Pelton vs JV - 9/27/2012 11:19:59 PM   
Pelton


Posts: 4374
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Savanniperkele


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton
I deleted game long ago and called it a draw. Thats what the 3 draws are.


You have been resent the 15th turn again around a month ago, so you could continue if you dared. But you are still boasting straight 10 wins in your every post even with you fleeing the game without a word.

And you have refused to respond Erik about the lies you spread here. Shame on you.


?

boasting 10 striaght wins? heheh
I am not boasting.
I am guessing your english is not that good.

Looks like MT will be surrendering soon

To end the drama start up a server based game,

Alt 41CG scenario
Server game
Locked HQ Support
Non Random Weather
Full FOW

House Rules


No Para drops to break pockets or cut rail lines past 8 hexs from front( before moves).



No bombing of air bases more than 3 times a turn (after turn 1).



No bombing of HQ's when not stacked with combat units.



No landing west of S-Pool before 43.



I get to win :)

Just kidding on last one.

But not on MT surrendering

Anyways there is the offer take it or leave it.




< Message edited by Pelton -- 9/27/2012 11:20:31 PM >

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

On leave until 9/13

(in reply to Savanniperkele)
Post #: 56
RE: Pelton vs JV - 9/28/2012 10:08:41 AM   
Savanniperkele


Posts: 64
Joined: 7/6/2005
Status: offline 		The point mostly is not him losing the game or whatever - he just brings up these ridiculous arguments and claims that he won this in he's signature "10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)".

And all could have been discussed in civilized manner - I tried to contact Pelton many times and he refuses to respond as he has refused to Respond to Erik asking about he's false smearing campaing with proven lies.

Have you ever been accused of cheating with claims that are proven wrong? He says he had received many messages from players claiming I was suspected of cheating while I have played with none as described above.

quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

quote:

ORIGINAL: Savanniperkele
And you have refused to respond Erik about the lies you spread here.


Under the circumstances, I think Erik would be justified in temporarily banning you from the WiTE forum for a cooling off period.

He closed the other thread in which you made your case and I think Erik's last message was pretty clear: enough is enough. But now you've chosen to take up the same arguments here.

I played Pelton too, all the way to the Summer of '43. At no time did I ever get the sense he was doing anything improper and for me it was the best way to get up the WiTE learning curve. I would certainly not now be playing Saper222 who may be an even better Axis player without my experience against Pelton.

He has offered to do a re-match with you once he can get clear of one of his current games. My advice to you is take him up on the offer, then do an AAR showing everyone how you beat him. You'll get far more support from the community than going down your present path.


quote:

Odessa

(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 57
RE: Pelton vs JV - 9/28/2012 10:17:19 AM   
Savanniperkele


Posts: 64
Joined: 7/6/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

quote:

ORIGINAL: Savanniperkele
And you have refused to respond Erik about the lies you spread here.

Under the circumstances, I think Erik would be justified in temporarily banning you from the WiTE forum for a cooling off period.

He closed the other thread in which you made your case and I think Erik's last message was pretty clear: enough is enough. But now you've chosen to take up the same arguments here.


You might have not noticed that this argument has been here for long. I haven't brought up anything new but one point.

The only point the community was notified was that Pelton has failed to respond Erik Rutins for weeks now when he kindly asked him hes opinion of he's lie i have proven was false. He's inaction in the issues clearly speaks the truth for him. He's just pretending what he said is not here and everyone should have been led astray already. Cladly hes wrong.

I feel it rather odd that you ask me to be silenced in an issue I am accused of cheating in case where the accuser is using proveng lies. In effect you ask for he's "truth" to reign and the one wronged to be silenced.

P.S. I am not taking Peltons rematch as he has not apologized a lie he published and thus is a persona non grata. There are a lot of more less predictable players around here when I have time to play with some true gentlemen with some 'sisu'.

(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 58
RE: Pelton vs JV - 9/28/2012 12:49:19 PM   
Pelton


Posts: 4374
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		You been made and offer if your not going to take it up, cool.

I really could care less one way or the other.

So end the drama

Thanks

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

On leave until 9/13

(in reply to Savanniperkele)
Post #: 59
RE: Pelton vs JV - 9/28/2012 1:41:20 PM   
Savanniperkele


Posts: 64
Joined: 7/6/2005
Status: offline 		It not about he's offers but he's lie which he uses to tarnish my reputation. No one should be diverted by Peltons smoke screen in here.

edit: typo

< Message edited by Savanniperkele -- 9/28/2012 1:44:02 PM >

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 60
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