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RE: ...or perhaps...

 
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RE: ...or perhaps... - 9/4/2012 7:08:03 PM   
John 3rd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Well I tried to goad you into invading New Zealand quite a while back strictly for entertainment value of the AAR, so you know my vote!


I thoroughly understand!


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RE: ...or perhaps... - 9/4/2012 9:35:23 PM   
Q-Ball


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Ceylon is easier, and has the added benefit that you'll rack up alot of points when the troops surrender. That happens in New Zealand too, but it will take awhile to clear the last base to make that happen.

New Zealand, however, would be more entertaining, so I vote for that!

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RE: ...or perhaps... - 9/4/2012 10:05:03 PM   
John 3rd


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OK. I am going to throw rationality out the window and ask for a vote from the readership.

As I see it there are three options:
1. Ceylon

Good:
a. Short Ground Campaign with LOTS of surrenders.
b. Attritional Air Campaign Potential
c. Opportunity to wipeout more Fleet assets.
d. Keep the pressure OFF of Burma

Bad:
a. Forces left there will be LEFT there.
b. Supplying the base and AF.

2. New Zealand

Good:
a. Takes away THE staging base to campaign against Australia
b. LCU Forces, supply, and airpower nearby.
c. Longer Ground Campaign but large surrenders as well.
d. Isolated from any form of quick Allied response.

Bad:
a. Emergency reinforcements
b. Little chance of Fleet engagement or large number of ships being sunk.

3. Suva--Canton--Pago Pago Campaign
Good: Fairly Obvious

Bad: LOTS of fuel needed and a long way from friendly Ports.


This is your chance to be a strategic and tactical genius. Place your vote and WHY!

Have fun...


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RE: ...or perhaps... - 9/4/2012 10:22:26 PM   
Kitakami

 

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Hmm... Ceylon is the obvious choice... so I'd go with one of the other two, while trying to seem to be going for Ceylon. As for which, probably Suva/Canton/Pago Pago, but that is just me :)

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RE: ...or perhaps... - 9/4/2012 11:26:47 PM   
ny59giants


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Just finished 4th turn for day. Hope to get in one more.

Just did #6 for day!!

< Message edited by ny59giants -- 9/5/2012 3:19:42 AM >


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SCRATCH One Flattop! - 9/5/2012 7:28:16 AM   
John 3rd


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June 2, 1942

YES! The sunken ship list grows ever larger:






Attachment (1)

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SCRATCH One Flattop! - 9/5/2012 7:37:27 AM   
John 3rd


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Late night right now so I will detail the combat tomorrow morning but here is the sunk ship list for June 2nd's day of operations. QUITE nice and there shall be a bunch of CAs and CLs added to this list with tomorrow's action. Day SEVEN of the Battle off Enggano...






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by John 3rd -- 9/5/2012 7:38:49 AM >


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RE: ...or perhaps... - 9/5/2012 11:30:30 AM   
kjnoel

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

OK. I am going to throw rationality out the window and ask for a vote from the readership.

As I see it there are three options:
1. Ceylon

Good:
a. Short Ground Campaign with LOTS of surrenders.
b. Attritional Air Campaign Potential
c. Opportunity to wipeout more Fleet assets.
d. Keep the pressure OFF of Burma

Bad:
a. Forces left there will be LEFT there.
b. Supplying the base and AF.

2. New Zealand

Good:
a. Takes away THE staging base to campaign against Australia
b. LCU Forces, supply, and airpower nearby.
c. Longer Ground Campaign but large surrenders as well.
d. Isolated from any form of quick Allied response.

Bad:
a. Emergency reinforcements
b. Little chance of Fleet engagement or large number of ships being sunk.

3. Suva--Canton--Pago Pago Campaign
Good: Fairly Obvious

Bad: LOTS of fuel needed and a long way from friendly Ports.


This is your chance to be a strategic and tactical genius. Place your vote and WHY!

Have fun...




Why are these three options? You need to think bigger

Ceylon AND NZ....

If he hasn't re-inforced Ceylon then three divisions are enough to take it, with his naval losses your only risk there is LBA. Has he built up the airfields near to Ceylon? Probably not I would guess which means operations will be from Madras and Ceylon itself. You don't even need to actually take Ceylon, just drawing him into an attritional air battle will be a good result for you. 3 divisions plus plenty of eng to build up your beach (Koggala to minimize LBA from the mainland initially) initially covered by mini-KB which could retire as soon as the IJA is up and running. If you are successful you can withdraw the divisions quickly as it is control of the air and sea that defends Ceylon, not LCUs... If you're not successful you can still withdraw the divisions after atritting his airforce.

Meanwhile you have an isolated New Zealand that would take another 5-6 divisions for speedy(ish) conquest; supported by KB. Once again you can withdraw your LCUs as sea and air control is key and it is highly unlikely the Allies can present a threat for a significant amount of time to such an isolated area (indeed, would they even bother?). As for the reinforcements? More victory points for you the way this war is going!

Two operations at opposite ends of the map, mmmmmmm. Think of it as a victorious IJA and IJN vying with each other for glory. Thinkk of your readers

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RE: ...or perhaps... - 9/5/2012 12:30:49 PM   
MAurelius


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everony at HQ would have been shot by now... Churchill himself would have eaten one of his cigars... and Roosevelt... well... not going into that...

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RE: ...or perhaps... - 9/5/2012 2:21:29 PM   
John 3rd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Just finished 4th turn for day. Hope to get in one more.

Just did #6 for day!!


I only got in this one you YUTZ! On OTHER hand at least I can say I sank an Aircraft Carrier...

Can you say THAT! Hah. I scoff in your general direction.



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Post #: 790
RE: ...or perhaps... - 9/5/2012 2:22:15 PM   
John 3rd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MAurelius

everony at HQ would have been shot by now... Churchill himself would have eaten one of his cigars... and Roosevelt... well... not going into that...


Hey Sir. I just noticed the formerly part. What happened to your normal account Soli?


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Post #: 791
RE: ...or perhaps... - 9/5/2012 2:23:19 PM   
John 3rd


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kjnoel: You ARE insane! Not to say what you propose could not be done...


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RE: ...or perhaps... - 9/5/2012 3:13:53 PM   
MAurelius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd


quote:

ORIGINAL: MAurelius

everony at HQ would have been shot by now... Churchill himself would have eaten one of his cigars... and Roosevelt... well... not going into that...


Hey Sir. I just noticed the formerly part. What happened to your normal account Soli?




Hi - well... the usual - new mail addy - forgotten password... the whole she-bang... (usually it's safed - but I got a new PC - so that was lost too... )

anyway... back to the game - keep the pressure up - and do something completely crazy... just for the fun :D - maybe 1 month before '43 - so that auto-victory is not in question... :)

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RE: ...or perhaps... - 9/5/2012 3:55:30 PM   
John 3rd


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Should I land on East Coast USA? It MIGHT be a surprise!

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RE: ...or perhaps... - 9/5/2012 4:14:59 PM   
kjnoel

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Should I land on East Coast USA? It MIGHT be a surprise!


Not fair, this wasn't one of your options earlier!

This would be, by far, the most fun for us

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Post #: 795
RE: ...or perhaps... - 9/5/2012 4:52:23 PM   
John 3rd


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You are ALL evil and shall be destroyed.


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Post #: 796
Battle off Enggano: Day SEVEN - 9/5/2012 5:24:22 PM   
John 3rd


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Combat Report
June 2, 1942


The hits just keep on coming for this day. All eight CVs get into the fray and many Allied warships are hit and seriously damaged. They have nowhere to run.

Night
The Battleline (Yamato, Nagato, Ise, Hyuga) appears at Benkoelen and runs into BB Idaho, CAs Vincennes and New Orleans, CLs Caledon and Danae. The 8 round battle sees Idaho sunk by Yamato and Nagato while Danae is crushed under the weight of a 4 14" hit broadside from Hyuga. DD Conyngham goes down as well. Idaho hits Nagato and Ise once each before being smothered by 16" and 18" shells. All Allied ships take hits and most are in bad shape as the sun rises.

The BBs don't find the transports but certainly serve to whittle down the remaining escorting protection of the shipping. Time to ship to smaller TF of CA--CL--DD.

Morning
Some Martlets try to provide CAP over Benkoelen and a Squadron of SNDs now appears at the base. All of it is swept away by the deluge that falls upon the Benkoelen area. EVERYTHING flies this day. There are 500 morning sorties alone in the morning. Here are the results near Benkoelen:

Ships hit: CAs New Orleans and Vincennes, CLs Emerald, Raleigh, CLAA Van Heemskerck, Ceres, Caledon, and Nashville, DD MacDonough is sunk, 3 DDs, 6 AK, and 6 AP

The army Lilys and Sallys strike at Benkoelen's AF and Port as well as troops trying to move out from the beachhead.

CV Hornet: KB-2 spots a moderately damaged Hornet roughly 200 miles away. A strike of 16 Zero, 10 Val, and 18 Kate attack. The carrier staggers under the weight of 4 more bomb hits. She is afloat but certainly crippled. Aboard Hiryu the very last TWO torpedos are loaded aboard a pair of Kates and they are sent (literally) by themselves to attack the carrier. At 180 miles away they find their flaming target. Hiryu carries the best air crews in the Fleet and these pilots show it as BOTH fish hit the carrier and they watch as Hornet rolls over taking 69 planes to her grave: BANZAI!

Afternoon
Another 500+ sorties fly in the afternoon. The massacre truly is well underway at this point team:

Shipping:
SUNK: CL Dauntless, DDs Isaac Sweers and Grayson, 5 AP, 3 AK, and an AVP.
DAMAGED: CA New Orleans (Vincennes sunk?), CLs Van Heemskerck, Hobart, and Caledon, 6 AP, 6 AK, and 2 DD.

Over 2,000 men are killed and LOTS of vehicles and guns are lost.

Plans:
CVL Shoho worsens her condition so she is sent to Padang to disband and immediately get the attention of an AR that is arriving this turn also. Zuiho and Soryu also head for Port but will not disband. They will fly CAP and limited sorties from there. Hiryu is sent to link-up with Kaga, Sho, Zui, and Ryujo coming up from the south.

Send the BBs back in to use their remaining ammo against the base. Add 2 BC and escorts from the Hiryu TF to really bring some firepower to the event.

CL Sendai is the only loss this turn. Her damage from the day before was simply too much. Nothing else is in sinking condition.

Vector my SS into the path it appears Yorktown and Formidable are taking towards Ceylon. My remaining CVs shall attempt to catch-up and finish off those two carriers.


PS: Lew wrote all depressed telling me how this invasion had miscarried and complained that 36 DB sat out the fight yesterday (Thank Goodness!). They did not sit out the fight. They were those old Helldiver DB and they didn't have the range to fly. I was honest with Lew saying that his timing was terrible as I was gathering the Fleet for a 'major IO Operation' and if he came in even a few days later that his TFs might NEVER have even landed.


< Message edited by John 3rd -- 9/5/2012 5:51:02 PM >


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RE: Battle off Enggano: Day SEVEN - 9/5/2012 7:02:03 PM   
Cribtop


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All that is left is to round up the prisoners and extend peace feelers.

Oh, and invade East Coast!

Concerning NZ and Ceylon, you could probably do both, but what's the harm in Ceylon, the Line Islands, Fiji, Pago Pago, etc? Maybe even Calcutta. I'm thinking VPs here, not sure whether you and Lew care about that.

While his tactical timing was unfortunate, IMHO Lew is hurting because he overcommitted to a smash and grab type raid. Has he expounded on his strategic thinking with this Op?

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RE: Battle off Enggano: Day SEVEN - 9/5/2012 9:45:48 PM   
House Stark

 

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This AAR was fun to read for awhile, but it now it just hurts. The sheer waste of Allied assets for no reason at all. And to think that this battle isn't over yet...Considering what when down in the transports, what you'll destroy at Benkolen, what was destroyed in Australia, and what you will destroy at Cocos, I don't think the emergency reinforcements should worry you terribly. So I say go for New Zealand, since that's done seen less often.

No offense intended to your opponent John, but this looks like what the AI would do if it knew how to concentrate its forces. He should have known that you were going to be ready to meet him considering your constant attention to Cocos. And yet he still chose to launch a massive invasion in the region and stayed in the there for days despite having only 4 or so CVs (and some of them British). Did he really expect that he could fend off the LBA, or that no significant concentrations of IJN CVs would arrive? It will certainly be interesting when this is done to see why he thought this move was a good idea.

< Message edited by House Stark -- 9/5/2012 9:48:14 PM >

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RE: Battle off Enggano: Day SEVEN - 9/5/2012 9:56:29 PM   
zuluhour


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

All that is left is to round up the prisoners and extend peace feelers.

Oh, and invade East Coast!

Concerning NZ and Ceylon, you could probably do both, but what's the harm in Ceylon, the Line Islands, Fiji, Pago Pago, etc? Maybe even Calcutta. I'm thinking VPs here, not sure whether you and Lew care about that.

While his tactical timing was unfortunate, IMHO Lew is hurting because he overcommitted to a smash and grab type raid. Has he expounded on his strategic thinking with this Op?

quote:

All that is left is to round up the prisoners and extend peace feelers


+1

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RE: Battle off Enggano: Day SEVEN - 9/5/2012 10:15:28 PM   
janh

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: House Stark
Considering what when down in the transports, what you'll destroy at Benkolen, what was destroyed in Australia, and what you will destroy at Cocos, I don't think the emergency reinforcements should worry you terribly. So I say go for New Zealand, since that's done seen less often.

No offense intended to your opponent John, but this looks like what the AI would do if it knew how to concentrate its forces.


Naaah, I think AI would have screwed up much much worse, and would keep sending tiny TFs with entirely insufficient reinforcements now piecemeal into this fray.

It would be very interesting to read Lew's thoughts on this. I would bet he had a general plan in this region, a bold one, starting with the staging on Cocos. Already that has raised many eyebrows here, and was not understandable easily. I bet this Bengkoelen plan existed for a while, and it got screwed at the moment when he realized that focusing all three OZ IDs between Darwin and Kathrine was a bad idea. But then it was too late.

Seems Lew is very aggressive in his style, and this time tried to wrestle the strategic initiative from the IJ side too early. I would describe 1942 more as being about sticking needles into the IJ side, where it is not showing up in force, and delaying everywhere else. Essentially just counterattacking once it is clear the IJ assets are busy far far away. But not planning such a major offensive while it is not even clear where the KB and all the LCU freed after the collapse of OZ are going next. He probably should have just evacuated Cocos, and consolidated even with a grudge about his losses there.

It really will be interesting to hear from him after this AAR what he really was after. I hope he'll comment some time!

Else, I would say Pago Pago and so on sound more like a follow up campaign to either NZ or LI, or both. I probably would try both. As said, even from his emergency reinforcements there won't be much to fear for the next year plus, as long as there is no Allied Navy and lifting capacity. I have no lists, but from the losses so far you've taken away the majority of his amphibious capacity for the better of 43. I guess you'd even have time to take LI and Ceylon at leisure, and then shifting forces from both to an assault of NZ?

One thing I wondered about Ceylon, maybe some experience Allied players can answer: if you'd lost Ceylon, but the air battle there was finally turned in your favor and you could retake it with an invasion, would you do so at the expense of forces feeding the Burma offensive? Or would you invest Ceylon and use it as a bombing practice, rack up VPs and experience, and take it later? It would sound like taking it must delay the progress into Rangoon, but is that truly so?

< Message edited by janh -- 9/5/2012 10:18:50 PM >

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RE: Battle off Enggano: Day SEVEN - 9/5/2012 11:29:10 PM   
John 3rd


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If you guys want to ask him you should do so. His Forum name is Adm. Nelson and there was a companion AAR to this one. You'd probably find it about page 3 or so.


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RE: Battle off Enggano: Day SEVEN - 9/5/2012 11:30:22 PM   
John 3rd


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Bottom Page 3: Racing the Sunrise Adm Nelson

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RE: Battle off Enggano: Day SEVEN - 9/6/2012 1:14:15 AM   
John 3rd


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Continue thinking about options and the situation. Some considerations once this fight is over:

1. All KB Members must do their June--July upgrade so they get their radar and 3.9" heavy AA guns.
2. Gonna have a batch of ships damaged to repair (1 CV, 2 CVL, several BBs, etc...) and that will take some time.

LCUs are in great shape.

LBA in GREAT shape.


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RE: Battle off Enggano: Day SEVEN - 9/6/2012 8:53:15 AM   
MrBlizzard


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In next year you can conquer all these three objectives, I vote starting with NZ cause, after conquering NZ can stand by herself olny with minimum garrison required, without naval or air assets.
Then you can turn agains Ceylon; there, as you said, you'll probably be involved in an attrition air war from India.
You will have to look after Ceylon all time. I imagine that it will become target of his 4E bombers and I wonder if an attrition war is useful to japan.
Your opponent looks over aggressive, I bet that he will not wait for collecting a big CV fleet before returing to action, I believe that after receiving 2or 3 CVE he will try something again

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Post #: 805
RE: Battle off Enggano: Day SEVEN - 9/6/2012 10:08:40 AM   
obvert


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What are the VPs looking like now? Are you thinking to push for a VP victory and call it there, or continue on and start researching jets?

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RE: Battle off Enggano: Day SEVEN - 9/6/2012 11:05:51 AM   
MAurelius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

What are the VPs looking like now? Are you thinking to push for a VP victory and call it there, or continue on and start researching jets?


just check the pages before... he posted a screen - was like 9000 to 41000 or something...

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Post #: 807
NE Australia - 9/6/2012 4:39:42 PM   
John 3rd


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The war does go on in OTHER theatres! Here is the current screen shot of NE Australia. The lighter color represents TK Reg moving towards their objectives and the red shows Inf Divisions closing in on the remaining towns in this sector.

Current units deployed:
--5 TK Reg
--3rd, 14th, 18th, and 48th ID
--The 33rd ID is at Rockhampton and its 3 components will land Cooktown, Portland Roads, and Cairns






Attachment (1)

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Post #: 808
VP Screen - 9/6/2012 4:42:37 PM   
John 3rd


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Here is today's VP Screen:






Attachment (1)

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Post #: 809
Capital Ships - 9/6/2012 4:46:06 PM   
John 3rd


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This is the current screen of sunk capital ships:






Attachment (1)

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