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"Remove military forces from my system"? I have no ships there...

 
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"Remove military forces from my system"? I ha... - 1/8/2012 5:56:21 AM   
ScottenChi

 

Posts: 118
Joined: 12/9/2005
Status: offline 		I think I may have seen this happen awhile ago, but am not sure.

Quameno empire keeps asking me to remove military ships from one of their systems, but I don't have any ships there. Very strange. Is this a bug, or some unknown affect of spies?

Thanks.
Post #: 1
RE: "Remove military forces from my system"? ... - 1/8/2012 9:28:58 AM   
feelotraveller


Posts: 823
Joined: 9/12/2011
Status: offline 		Worth checking that you don't have any freighters in their systems which are touting weapons, if you haven't already.

(in reply to ScottenChi)
Post #: 2
RE: "Remove military forces from my system"? ... - 1/8/2012 8:50:12 PM   
Chet Guiles

 

Posts: 147
Joined: 6/14/2002
From: Southern CA
Status: offline 		This seems to hold for any armed vessel, even my "lightly" armed exploration ships. I try to arm and shield my exploration ships to the level of a DD so they can fight off stray pirates, but do not use them offensively other than against pirates. (Once in a while when ship sizes permit I create a "Tyrannosaur Class " Exploration ship that can take out pirate bases.) I usually ignore the warnings and have never had anyone actually attack my ships or do any retribution for it. It does have have an impact on diplomacy for a while as they remember the "transgression."

(in reply to ScottenChi)
Post #: 3
RE: "Remove military forces from my system"? ... - 1/8/2012 10:23:08 PM   
ScottenChi

 

Posts: 118
Joined: 12/9/2005
Status: offline 		Pretty sure my freighters are completely unarmed.  I relaunched the game today and Quameno were NOT unhappy with me and didn't say anything to me about removing ships from their territory.

Does this game allow false casus belli?  It would be pretty sneaky if the AI were lying about my incursion to initiate a war.

(in reply to Chet Guiles)
Post #: 4
RE: "Remove military forces from my system"? ... - 1/9/2012 3:51:40 AM   
Chet Guiles

 

Posts: 147
Joined: 6/14/2002
From: Southern CA
Status: offline 		I ignore that kind of diplomatic whining because I do not send actual military units into someone else's territory unless I am planning some sort of actual attack. I have never seen indication of a false casus belli, doubt that the AI is that devious. Neither have any of those who have so warned me ever done anything overt about my exploration ships (or freighters?) that are in their territory. I keep hoping they'll send some sort of frigate to attack my T-Rex Class explorers, but they never seem to.

Any of the developers care to comnent about the degree of sneakiness of the AI -- or whether there is some consequence other than a bit of hostility that is caused by non-military ships in alien territory?

It's an indication to me of how good this game is that these kind of questions about subtle racial interactions can even arise.

(in reply to ScottenChi)
Post #: 5
RE: "Remove military forces from my system"? ... - 1/9/2012 11:59:20 PM   
Dracus

 

Posts: 149
Joined: 11/29/2011
Status: offline 		I had this happen when i gain a some pirate ships, they where sitting in a system that did not appear to belong to anybody, but when I use the map editor I saw that the system fell within the control borders of that empire. I had not yet visited the controling system so the borders where still invisible.

< Message edited by Dracus -- 1/10/2012 12:00:11 AM >

(in reply to Chet Guiles)
Post #: 6
RE: "Remove military forces from my system"? ... - 1/10/2012 3:14:23 PM   
phatkarp


Posts: 129
Joined: 4/14/2011
Status: offline 		I've had this come up as well.  The empire mentioned a specific system, which had no ships of mine in it.  However, a system to the north (?) within the cultural border did have a couple of destroyers.  

(in reply to Dracus)
Post #: 7
RE: "Remove military forces from my system"? ... - 1/22/2012 2:37:49 AM   
elliotg


Posts: 2379
Joined: 9/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ScottenChi
I think I may have seen this happen awhile ago, but am not sure.

Quameno empire keeps asking me to remove military ships from one of their systems, but I don't have any ships there. Very strange. Is this a bug, or some unknown affect of spies?

Thanks.

Doesn't sound right, although that diplomatic message may be slightly delayed - you may not have military ships there now, but maybe you had some in that system a short time ago?

Also, armed exploration ships will trigger this warning - basically any armed state-controlled ships (i.e. ships you can assign missions to) will be considered a threat. This does not apply to privately owned ships (e.g. freighters) - they can have a single weapon each without being considered a threat by other empires.

Feel free to upload your savegame for me to look at if you think none of the above explains your situation.

Thanks
Elliot

(in reply to ScottenChi)
Post #: 8
RE: "Remove military forces from my system"? ... - 1/23/2012 4:50:09 PM   
ScottenChi

 

Posts: 118
Joined: 12/9/2005
Status: offline 		Thanks Elliot!!  I started a new game and have NOT had the problem recur.  If it does, I'll upload the savegame file.

(in reply to elliotg)
Post #: 9
RE: "Remove military forces from my system"? ... - 3/5/2012 12:42:44 PM   
Kayoz


Posts: 1026
Joined: 12/20/2010
From: Timbuktu
Status: offline 		1.7.0.12 -
Still happening.

No armed civilian ships in the system.
No armed military ships in the system.
No ships passing through the system (in case it's checked on a timed basis and ships in hyperspace passing through can trigger the event).

I did have some constructor ships in the system quite a while ago (some thanks I get for doing him the favour of cleaning up the unsightly debris littering the system!).

Hypothesis:
1. Territorial transgression event is triggered by debris ships under repair. When you changed the "repair proximity ownership" to "repairer ownership", did you set a hidden flag for future owner of the ship being repaired, and are checking that in addition to the displayed/active ship owner?

2. Are the tr. events being queued up at the same rate as the warnings are issued? If they are being added to the queue faster than they are cleared, then it would make sense that the player is getting old transgression warnings long after the incident.

3. Constructor ships with no weapons - is it possible that they are triggering the event? Should they? You stated that armed explorers can trigger the event, but not civilian ships (# weapons <= 1). Does the same apply to all controllable/military ships? Thus, if an explorer with a no weapon will not generate the event, does it also apply that a constructor ship with no weapon will also not generate the event?

4. Is each military object (ie: each non-fleet assigned ship, or each fleet) generating a tr. event, such that 10 ships not in a fleet will generate 10 separate events (assume that events are queued and player warned at defined intervals), but a single fleet will generate one? It should be simple to check the code to see if redundant events are being generated. Also, if you move a single ship in and out of the same system, will that generate multiple events (and thus queued, explaining the long delay), or are multiple events by the same ship discarded?

5. In the case of multiple tr. events, are they all queued, and if so, is the system ID assigned correctly to each event? Or does the code only record the first/last event when multiple events are triggered (see above 10 ships/1 fleet)?

(event = event that triggers transgression warning)

< Message edited by Kayoz -- 3/5/2012 8:45:22 PM >

(in reply to elliotg)
Post #: 10
RE: "Remove military forces from my system"? ... - 3/6/2012 2:44:28 AM   
shinobu


Posts: 185
Joined: 12/12/2009
Status: online 		Can't add much here except that I also had this happen to me. After three successive "whines" (and three gifts from me to smooth over ruffled feathers), it stopped. I'm SURE I had no armed ships anywhere in the territory of the offended star-nation...

(in reply to ScottenChi)
Post #: 11
RE: "Remove military forces from my system"? ... - 5/1/2012 11:16:31 PM   
Kayoz


Posts: 1026
Joined: 12/20/2010
From: Timbuktu
Status: offline 		1.7.0.13 -
Still happening.

(in reply to shinobu)
Post #: 12
RE: "Remove military forces from my system"? ... - 5/17/2012 3:03:54 PM   
Bebop Cola

 

Posts: 123
Joined: 5/9/2012
Status: offline 		My understanding has always been that I had an automated escort following a private sector ship around. On a few occasions that I've received this message I was able to catch the offending escort-class ship in system, but I've never seen frigates or larger doing this even when automated and presumably available for escort roles.

Most of the time, however, I don't see any of my ships in system by the time I check so I just assume at this point that the escort that triggered the warning has warped out.

(in reply to Kayoz)
Post #: 13
RE: "Remove military forces from my system"? ... - 5/17/2012 8:06:06 PM   
Kayoz


Posts: 1026
Joined: 12/20/2010
From: Timbuktu
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bebop Cola
My understanding has always been that I had an automated escort following a private sector ship around.


Not in the case I saw - I had no military ships automated, much less escorting civilian ships.

_____________________________

“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” ― Christopher Hitchens

(in reply to Bebop Cola)
Post #: 14
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