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Help in China! No Obvert please.

 
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Help in China! No Obvert please. - 1/7/2012 1:22:46 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 1816
Joined: 7/29/2009
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I have made a mess in China I belive and would like some advice on how I might salvage anything from this.

Situation:




Basically my plan was to use the 4,5k AV in the South and SW to cut his forces off from supply thus forcing him to withdraw from Sian. I also hoped that threatening Hankow with 2800 AV would force him to split his forces. This failed for numerous reason. First my Recon didnīt spot his 13 units coming from the east and he quickly brushed aside my blocking force and linking up from the east. Also my 1500AV in the far south is unable to move any direction except east due to hex ownership.

My forces threatening Hankow was blasted by his bombers loosing around 600AV in a few days of bombing. They are now retreating back to Ichang. The unit east of Ichang is trying to link up with the 1500 stuck in the forest hex. By moving a unit from the west there I hope I flip the ownership on the west side of the hex?

Now he is quickly surrounding Sian. I doubt my 800 AV from the NE will be able to get there in time. My 2000 AV coming from the SE will surely be blocked off by some of thoose 13 units.

I have no idea what to do? He did a bombardment attack in Sian 3 turns ago which gave him a 1:1. His losses were if I remember correctly around 200 against 0 for me. Forts are at level 3.

What should I do? What can I do? Should I try to hold on to Sian. Can I save some of the troops in danger of being cut off?

Any help is greatly appriciated! This is my first PBEM so even basic advice is very welcome!
Post #: 1
RE: Help in China! No Obvert please. - 1/7/2012 1:46:34 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 4959
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		I had a very bloody nose in China against Rader....imho, under the current situation, Sian isn't defendable...on a clear terrain you're gonna get beaten, no matter how many units you mass there... I'd say use the northern Army to defend the mountains that close the approaches to central China and concentrate on holding the Changsha area which is vital for your supply production...which is the key of any defence in China

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Post #: 2
RE: Help in China! No Obvert please. - 1/7/2012 2:35:41 PM   
kbfchicago


Posts: 62
Joined: 10/17/2009
Status: offline 		Second Grey Joy's recommendation... I also would add throw a couple of retreating corps that are already beat up on the supply lines (since your already by passed and back there)...i.e. the road E-W out of Sian and the road E-W out of Nanyang.  No attacks, just occupy a vacant hex, block the route, and lay bodies across the road.  Force him to deal with them, they'll reconstitute for you later after destroyed and ideally slow him down by drawing attention and troops from the main effort.

On a macro level... you didn't note which scenario or the current date... I suspect #1 and this is early 42?  Very gutsy for the Chinese to set an aggressive strategy (or any strategy other than "roll with the punches").  IJA ground or air can dominate any place they want to and your supply line through Burma will dry up shortly.  I know it looks like allot of units when the game opens but Chinese exp and morale is extremely low making anything but the greatest odds in your favor an unfavorable attack.  You can do "ok" on defense (meaning you will still lose lots of ground...), better in the covered vs open hexes.  In 41 after you isolate and hopefully kill any IJA that start in a tenuous position (usually around Ichang), hunker down, train/rest the second line, build supplies and fortifications in depth as with any IJ player who is even moderately aggressive, you'll need'em!  Look for spoiler attacks that likely don't cut off whole armies but retake key junctions that would force him to come back and re-take, buying you time to keep China in the game through 42 and into 43.

my 2 cents earned on 2 IA Scenario #1 games as Allies through '45 and current PBEM scenario #2 currently in May 42 (where I'm really gett'in my butt kicked in China with the extra IJ forces and resources :)


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Post #: 3
RE: Help in China! No Obvert please. - 1/7/2012 2:59:21 PM   
Saros

 

Posts: 238
Joined: 12/18/2010
Status: offline 		You really can't hold against the IJA in clear Terrain i'm afraid. The way to hold Sian is the way Kfsgo did it in my AAR, get off the plains ASAP and stack everything in 3x terrain.
Get out of the battle and dig in in the rough terrain to prevent him exploiting to the north and cutting you off from your far north oil supplies.

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Post #: 4
RE: Help in China! No Obvert please. - 1/7/2012 4:50:28 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 1816
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Thank you all for the advice.

Iīm starting to evacuate everything westwards. I just got the combat replay back and he ofcourse cut me off with his armour in the north. Should I just move everything west through the wilderness? Or should I wait in Sian and try and link up with the stragglers and then try and break out to the north?

Kbfchicago,
You are correct, its early 42 Scenario 1.





(in reply to Saros)
Post #: 5
RE: Help in China! No Obvert please. - 2/27/2012 6:35:24 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 1816
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Lets say the situation have not improved since my last post here...

Obvert has thrown everything in China. He mentioned in one of his emails that about 80% of his airforce is operating in China. Last turn a new stack appeared in Nanning containing most of his unrestricted divisions. So he is going all in. Donīt know whats in the stacks around Changsha but its probably not good news.

I have not done well in China and need advice. I donīt think China is salvageable at this point but I need to try to delay him as much as possible to lock down his forces for as long as possible.

I lost Sian after he simply nuked it for a few weeks until supply ran out. He then just moved his northern superstack with 5k AV inn and took over. Same thing happened with Lanchow a few days ago. Iīm loosing what I would estimate to be around 60-100 squads per day to bombing (disabled). I canīt rest them back since Iīm out of supply everywhere. Guess thats due to his bombing?

I guess the only thing left to do for me is to try and turtle up along the yellow line in central china abandoning the Changsha area?
All my troops lack supply. I have no airfields operational thus no recon. I canīt recover disabled squads since there is no supply.

Help?





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by JocMeister -- 2/27/2012 8:48:38 AM >

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Post #: 6
RE: Help in China! No Obvert please. - 2/27/2012 9:04:57 AM   
LoBaron


Posts: 3845
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Lets say the situation have not improved since my last post here...

Obvert has thrown everything in China. He mentioned in one of his emails that about 80% of his airforce is operating in China. Last turn a new stack appeared in Nanning containing most of his unrestricted divisions. So he is going all in. Donīt know whats in the stacks around Changsha but its probably not good news.

I have not done well in China and need advice. I donīt think China is salvageable at this point but I need to try to delay him as much as possible to lock down his forces for as long as possible.

I lost Sian after he simply nuked it for a few weeks until supply ran out. He then just moved his northern superstack with 5k AV inn and took over. Same thing happened with Lanchow a few days ago. Iīm loosing what I would estimate to be around 15-30 squads per day to bombing (disabled). I canīt rest them back since Iīm out of supply everywhere. Guess thats due to his bombing?

I guess the only thing left to do for me is to try and turtle up along the yellow line in central china abandoning the Changsha area?
All my troops lack supply. I have no airfields operational thus no recon. I canīt recover disabled squads since there is no supply.

Help?


Ouch this looks tough, will be very difficult to stop him at all.
Hows your air bridge from India? The only way to save China is by throwing every
supply point in you are able too, and this does still not guarantee you will survive.

Your rough defensive line looks ok, I would defend a bit more forward (1-2 hexes away from your bases) though.
Changsha is untenable in your situation, pull back ASAP. Move units into roadblck position and creat a reserve
position one hex behind.

If Chansha falls, Changte will be in danger of being cut off, so either try to prevent this as long as possible or
pull your forces back from there as well.

In the south you need to establish blocks on the approaches from
Liuchow, Kweilin, Shaoyang, Changsha/Chagte and try to make the defense deep enough so
you cannot get outflanked.

Any chance of getting at least a BF/fighter air up and running in the area? Station em back (e.g. Chengtu/Chunking)
and ambush where/when his escort lacks or in bad weather where you expect bad coordination.

If you can move your cut off units deeper into IJ territory, you might be able to cut of 1-2 supply
paths, worst case he will need a whole lot of supplies more, because of the higher wastage on longer,
less infrastructure hex routes.

You have to be extremely fast in doing all this though, if your opponent arrives in central China first,
wherever this might be, you lost the theatre. This will be a close call to say the least.

Good luck!!

_____________________________

S**t happens in war.

All hail the superior ones!

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Post #: 7
RE: Help in China! No Obvert please. - 2/27/2012 6:29:52 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 1816
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		LoBaron,

Thank you for taking your time and giving me an answer

The airbridge is sadly lacking. Iīm trying to get my only 30 transports to India as fast as I can. I tried drawing as much supply into China before Rangoon fell. I wasnīt as successful as I had wished. So supplies are out almost everywhere despite me loosing about half the chinese military.

I just started evacuating everything from sothern China. Hopefully it wasnīt to late. Lack of recon is really hurting. I will try getting some CAP up somewhere. I have a squadron of the AVG in China. Problem is that they are grounded 3 in Kienko and have been for 3 weeks. I have been unable to draw more then 12! supplies there.

I really really hope I can hold to atleast early 43.



(in reply to LoBaron)
Post #: 8
RE: Help in China! No Obvert please. - 2/27/2012 6:44:46 PM   
LoBaron


Posts: 3845
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline 		Yep, China eats supplies like a beast.

Thinking of it: double and triple check if you have reinforcements set to off, and you donīt have unneccesary base expansions ongoing.
Use rest on units not required for combat, they donīt consume less supplies, but they donīt get damaged and so will eat up less supplies
for device repair.

_____________________________

S**t happens in war.

All hail the superior ones!

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Post #: 9
RE: Help in China! No Obvert please. - 2/27/2012 10:26:16 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 6203
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		You are correct in defending the yellow line. That is where I was able to hold for almost a year. Which senario are you playing? Basically, if the Japanese player devotes everything to China then I don't think it can be help forever. That is just the way it works. Make sure to turn off a lot of unit replacements, turn off most fortification and airbase construction. These all eat supply. Kweiyang is the real key. Once you lost it then you have lost Chunking. My recommendation is that you eventually focus on moving the bulk of the surviving forces west on the map towards Burma. Chunking is worth defending but only to buy time. Don't put all your forces there or you will lose them all. Once you lose Chunking then you get no Chinese units back. In the end he will take it. More important is that you have the bulk of your army covering the routes to Burma-both for your long term survival and to block a flood of Japanese troops pouring into Burma from China, which will be greater disaster than losing China.

Start moving shattered units to Burma and then take the long route to Ledo if you have to. Those units that can be bought out (only a few) you can change to the SE asia HQ and then fly them to Ledo to refit and rebuild. You should be planning on taking North Burma back in 1943 with the Indian Army so that you can move Chinese units out to a supply source and rebuild them. Also, if you hold North Burma, some supply will flow into your western Chinese cities.

Basically, I am saying that you will eventually lose China. You want to last as long as possible and start making long term plans for what happens afterwards.



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Post #: 10
RE: Help in China! No Obvert please. - 2/28/2012 6:18:57 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 1816
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		crsutton,

Thank you very much for the advice! I had not thought of flying some of the chinese out. Are you suggesting that I fall back towards Burma instead of holding central china "to the death"? I can probably retake Burma in late 42 IF I can tie his forces down in China. We are playing Scenario 1 so he is not getting all the extra stuff. All his unrestricted divison except 3 (2 in Java, 1 Bataan) are in China. So he is very thin everywhere. To counter this I plan on putting most of the US army formations in India and let the Navy and marines take care of the Pacific for the time being. I hope that will force him to ease the pressure on China. Atleast start moving out some of the airgroups.

He has really thrown everything in China. Iīm getting around 5k casualties a day from aerial bombing. All my screwups havnīt really helped either!

I havnīt expanded any airfields. I only built 2 forts so I donīt really understand why I have such a supply problem. Reinforcments are off and I only turn it on when Iīm filling up certain Corps. As I wrote earlier its red everywhere except Chansha and Chunking.

Btw, would restricted chinese units be able to move into Burma/India? I know this would be stretching reality mayby a bit far. But I doubt the IJA could have persuaded the navy to "all in" in China either. Or put togheter a "Jap Panzer Armee" of 950 tanks/AFVs and have them operating in the mountains north of Lanchow...

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Post #: 11
RE: Help in China! No Obvert please. - 2/28/2012 3:32:49 PM   
Dan Nichols


Posts: 863
Joined: 8/30/2011
Status: offline 		You can move the Chinese troops into Burma and then into India if you want. It would depend on your house rules if it is allowed. I wonder if you made sure that all of the factory repairs were off? That would have burned a lot of supply. Did you keep the 6th and 7th Australian Divisions in India? I would also consider moving an additional USAAF bomber group and fighter group to India to help attacking Burma( 4 squadrons each ). It looks like Burma might be an important theater in this game.

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Post #: 12
RE: Help in China! No Obvert please. - 2/28/2012 6:40:10 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 6203
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

crsutton,

Thank you very much for the advice! I had not thought of flying some of the chinese out. Are you suggesting that I fall back towards Burma instead of holding central china "to the death"? I can probably retake Burma in late 42 IF I can tie his forces down in China. We are playing Scenario 1 so he is not getting all the extra stuff. All his unrestricted divison except 3 (2 in Java, 1 Bataan) are in China. So he is very thin everywhere. To counter this I plan on putting most of the US army formations in India and let the Navy and marines take care of the Pacific for the time being. I hope that will force him to ease the pressure on China. Atleast start moving out some of the airgroups.

He has really thrown everything in China. Iīm getting around 5k casualties a day from aerial bombing. All my screwups havnīt really helped either!

I havnīt expanded any airfields. I only built 2 forts so I donīt really understand why I have such a supply problem. Reinforcments are off and I only turn it on when Iīm filling up certain Corps. As I wrote earlier its red everywhere except Chansha and Chunking.

Btw, would restricted chinese units be able to move into Burma/India? I know this would be stretching reality mayby a bit far. But I doubt the IJA could have persuaded the navy to "all in" in China either. Or put togheter a "Jap Panzer Armee" of 950 tanks/AFVs and have them operating in the mountains north of Lanchow...


Well, it is worth fighting and delay anywhere you can. Just be aware that he can take Keywang and just move every unit to the West instead of towards Chungking. And if he takes Kumming and Paoshan then you are effectively corked up and he can eliminate just about every unit trapped in China. Always look to keep that back door open. I would commit half of your troops to that and then the others can hold Chungking as long as possible.

You can move restricted Chinese units over the border into Burma. Only the few "yellow" restricted units can be bought out and then flown out. You might have a HR about not moving restricted units over the border but after two years of a campaign I can assure you that it is a total "cheese" HR that favors Japan only as 95% of Chinese units are white restricted and only about 1/3 of Japanese units are. So he can take most of China and then move the bulk of his units out where all your white restricted units are stuck in a corner of China. If you have this HR then I would let your opponent know that if he takes Chungking-or a certain portion of China, then the rule no long applies. It is only fair. Plus HR or not, you just can't rebuild units without supply and the best place for that is Burma or India.

I should qualify this by saying my experience is with scen#2. Scen#1 may differ in that events in other sectors might take the pressure off in China so the plan might need to be different.


< Message edited by crsutton -- 2/28/2012 7:14:56 PM >

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Post #: 13
RE: Help in China! No Obvert please. - 2/28/2012 8:43:01 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 1816
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Dan, I made sure this turn all factory repairs are off and have been since turn 1. Canīt understand the supply problems!

I have the 6th and all arty from the OZ corps in India. The 7th are guarding Perth. Canīt afford to loose it. But the plan is to send them to India when Iīm sure he isnīt gunning for Perth. I have 27th Infantry on its way Cape earmarked for India. I already have a medium bomber group and a fightergroup stationed there.

crustton,

I sent obvert an email asking about a change of the HRs. We do infact have one against moving unrestricted units over boarders without paying PPs. He is a very reasonable fellow and I think we can come up with something. He do have forces coming from Burma. About 1 division plus a few RTA divs. So if Iīm to keep that road open I have to fight and defeat them. Is that possible in the terrain? My experiences with chinese on the attack are...not positive
He also have 2500 AV coming up from the south that I have to hold. And I donīt want to give up central China unless it 100% hopeless. Some of my 8k av coming from the Chansha area will be pretty beat up when it arrives. He is throwing 200 bombers per turn on them. And the two open hexes is going to cost me...

Exciting!


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Post #: 14
RE: Help in China! No Obvert please. - 2/28/2012 8:57:55 PM   
Blackhorse


Posts: 1925
Joined: 8/20/2000
From: Eastern US
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Dan, I made sure this turn all factory repairs are off and have been since turn 1. Canīt understand the supply problems!

I have the 6th and all arty from the OZ corps in India. The 7th are guarding Perth. Canīt afford to loose it. But the plan is to send them to India when Iīm sure he isnīt gunning for Perth. I have 27th Infantry on its way Cape earmarked for India. I already have a medium bomber group and a fightergroup stationed there.

crustton,

I sent obvert an email asking about a change of the HRs. We do infact have one against moving unrestricted units over boarders without paying PPs. He is a very reasonable fellow and I think we can come up with something. He do have forces coming from Burma. About 1 division plus a few RTA divs. So if Iīm to keep that road open I have to fight and defeat them. Is that possible in the terrain? My experiences with chinese on the attack are...not positive
He also have 2500 AV coming up from the south that I have to hold. And I donīt want to give up central China unless it 100% hopeless. Some of my 8k av coming from the Chansha area will be pretty beat up when it arrives. He is throwing 200 bombers per turn on them. And the two open hexes is going to cost me...

Exciting!





Exciting, indeed.

You have nine Chinese LCUs (divisions) that can change to unrestricted HQs and march -- or be flown -- to India / Burma. All other Chinese LCUs are permanently attached to China Command HQs.

Re: HRs. Thai ("RTA") Divisions, like most Chinese units, cannot change HQs. So If he is moving Thai Divisions into Burma without changing HQs, then you ought to be allowed to move any/all of your Chinese LCUs into Burma, as well.

Remember, you can use bombers to bring supply into China from India.



_____________________________

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Moriarty: Crap!

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 15
RE: Help in China! No Obvert please. - 3/1/2012 2:03:01 PM   
Icedawg


Posts: 1322
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: Upstate New York
Status: offline 		Just a quick question.

How the heck can a Japanese player concentrate such large AV stacks in China?

After garrison requirements are met, the Japanese player only has about 4 or 5 divisions left over for offensive operations for a grand total of about 2000 AV for the entire theater. Kwangtung has about 3000 AV extra that can be bought out, bringing the total available for offensive operations to only about 5000 AV.

If a Japanese player manages to create such huge stacks, he must be very thin everywhere else. Seems like a pretty risky strategy to me. (Or are there other sources of AV that I am overlooking here?)

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Post #: 16
RE: Help in China! No Obvert please. - 3/1/2012 2:26:28 PM   
derp

 

Posts: 79
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icedawg

Just a quick question.

How the heck can a Japanese player concentrate such large AV stacks in China? After garrison requirements are met, the Japanese player only has about 4 or 5 divisions left over for offensive operations for a grand total of about 2000 AV for the entire theater.


Er, that's not really accurate - there's far, far more available than that, particularly if your opponent is particularly craven. When you actually look at how the garrison requirements are distributed, they're mostly nothing onerous - 20av here, 40av there, with only the major cities having needs beyond that. There are lots of miniscule and otherwise useless Quisling units available to cover that sort of thing - more so because a lot of the 25-30av units can be subdivided and so allow the Japanese to cover technical garrison requirements down to the exact squad count. Given that, I think the Japs have...about 20 divisions or divisional-equivalent groups to work with? Maybe more than that. And, of course, though both armies in China start with fairly significant disablements, the Japanese will recover theirs - the Chinese mostly won't.

I mean - having Mongol cavalry garrisoning Shanghai is asking for trouble, and having the only friendly troops between Shanghai and half a million Japanese troops Wuhan be a couple hundred deeply unreliable collaborationist Chinese is downright insane, but there's no rule against it - and the game is at too large a scale to really represent the ability of the Chinese to turn that sort of things into a problem.



_____________________________

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Post #: 17
RE: Help in China! No Obvert please. - 3/1/2012 8:15:02 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 1816
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		I can vouch for the fact that the Jap has a lot more then 5k AV available...one of the worst things actually is the Panzerarmee they make from Kwantung units. The Chinese hardly have any AT capabilities and once you are beaten and the Panzerarmee chases you down...not much you can do.

The lack of recon and good airfields doesnīt help either. But as China is now its just a matter of piling on as much as you can in a hex and move it as the Jap. Not much strategy. Problem as the chinese is that if you try to do the same thing your stack is going to get out of supply.

Iīve pulled back big time and will try to hold on for dear life. But I donīt know how long that will last once he brings down his deathstar with 5-6k AV. He has another huge stack around Chansha that probably has as much...


(in reply to derp)
Post #: 18
RE: Help in China! No Obvert please. Or Nashvilian - 3/1/2012 9:16:29 PM   
rjopel

 

Posts: 539
Joined: 12/19/2007
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline 		I am in mid 43 in my game and I've lost EVERY city in China. The good news is I've taken much of Burma back and his supply over the mountains through Paoshan will suck as much as mine, while I use India supply to rebuild wrecked Chinese corps. Now if I can only recapture Chengtu for two days I'll get about 60 1/3 strength chinse units back on the map.

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Post #: 19
RE: Help in China! No Obvert please. Or Nashvilian - 3/2/2012 5:52:14 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 1816
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Where did you opponent go with all the troops freed up in China? I would have thought Burma would be the first place to go with them? Unfortunantly for me my opponent have been very, very carefull not destroy any units for me so no respawns.

You think you have a shot a liberating China again? How much did you get out from China?

(in reply to rjopel)
Post #: 20
RE: Help in China! No Obvert please. Or Nashvilian - 3/2/2012 6:23:45 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 6203
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Where did you opponent go with all the troops freed up in China? I would have thought Burma would be the first place to go with them? Unfortunantly for me my opponent have been very, very carefull not destroy any units for me so no respawns.

You think you have a shot a liberating China again? How much did you get out from China?



Not really much chance of taking it back-unless you are playing a very bad opponent and it does not sound like that is the case with you.. More important is that you don't let him move into Burma. Some of the Japanese troops are white restricted and cannot be bought out. So they can't be loaded on ships but can walk or rail anywhere else in Asia if there is a way.

About 1/3 of the Japanese units are Yellow restricted and can be bought out with PPs to be used in any other theater.

And roughly a third are already non restricted and can be used anywhere.

These are very rough estimates as I am an Allied player and have not looked at the Japanese OOB in quite a while.

_____________________________

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Post #: 21
RE: Help in China! No Obvert please. Or Nashvilian - 3/3/2012 4:57:01 PM   
rjopel

 

Posts: 539
Joined: 12/19/2007
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Where did you opponent go with all the troops freed up in China? I would have thought Burma would be the first place to go with them? Unfortunantly for me my opponent have been very, very carefull not destroy any units for me so no respawns.

You think you have a shot a liberating China again? How much did you get out from China?



They look to be headed to Burma, but supply will be hard up and over that single road. I've taken a lot of Burma back so he won't be able to supply throgh Rangoon.

I've got 74 units out of China 44 of them Infantry. Some of those are still somewhere in China. I might be able to take back China eventually. If I can take back Chengtu for two turn I'll get over 100 units that will regen there.

The good news is I'm making good progress elsewhere.

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 22
RE: Help in China! No Obvert please. Or Nashvilian - 3/16/2012 8:22:34 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 1816
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Ha, I actually have a little bit more AV in China then I have supply now!

Is this really how China is supposed to work? Its just silly... Most of my units have about a fifth of the required supply around 150-200 supply per Corps. I have 14k supply in Chunking and 2k in Chengtu and thats it. All other cities have zero, nil! I have a wooping 16k AV that is completly worthless since it all will cruble if poked on because of the supply situation.
Iīm using every available transport to fly supplies to Chengtu but op losses will soon put an end to that...

Anyone else experiencing this? Is this how it should be?

(in reply to rjopel)
Post #: 23
RE: Help in China! No Obvert please. Or Nashvilian - 3/16/2012 11:30:56 AM   
Blackhorse


Posts: 1925
Joined: 8/20/2000
From: Eastern US
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Ha, I actually have a little bit more AV in China then I have supply now!

Is this really how China is supposed to work? Its just silly... Most of my units have about a fifth of the required supply around 150-200 supply per Corps. I have 14k supply in Chunking and 2k in Chengtu and thats it. All other cities have zero, nil! I have a wooping 16k AV that is completly worthless since it all will cruble if poked on because of the supply situation.
Iīm using every available transport to fly supplies to Chengtu but op losses will soon put an end to that...

Anyone else experiencing this? Is this how it should be?


It depends. If you keep the IJA off of the cities on the rail-line Changsha-Kweilin, and away from Sian and Lanchow, and there is no strategic bombing of Chinese cities, and you rest units in reserve and don't try too many attacks yourself -- then you can barely keep supply meeting demand.

Once the Japanese capture/invest these "main line of resistance" cities, or start consistently bombing them, then your supply situation will rapidly deteriorate.


_____________________________

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(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 24
RE: Help in China! No Obvert please. Or Nashvilian - 3/17/2012 5:49:35 AM   
rjopel

 

Posts: 539
Joined: 12/19/2007
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline 		China Sucks.

He's now taken most of the Jap army up over the PAsohsan pass and is working his way back into Burma. I don't have near the strength to hold it.

I want to know what he's holding the Soviets off with.

(in reply to Blackhorse)
Post #: 25
RE: Help in China! No Obvert please. Or Nashvilian - 3/17/2012 8:04:03 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 1816
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Blackhorse, Thank you for the input!
The situation just feels comical. Because as far as I can tell there is absolutly no reason for me at all to stay in China anymore. The only thing that feels viable right now is evacuation to India via Burma. This ofcourse would never even have been considered IRL. If I stay I will just give him the Chinese army. If I wait I will probably not have the firepower to punch through Burma. Am I wrong in theese assumptions?

I might be a bit "whiny" but I feel this is not as it should be. Japan has it too easy in China or the Chinese have it too hard. EDIT: "Supplywise" that is!


rjopel,

So you lost all of China for certain now? No chance of recapture?

Iīm starting to get a feeling it might not be me that is such as poor player. Looking at a few AARs it seems like the Japs can take China without too much effort. My opponent invested heavily but we are playing scenario 1.

How did the supply situation work for you?



< Message edited by JocMeister -- 3/17/2012 10:34:03 AM >

(in reply to rjopel)
Post #: 26
RE: Help in China! No Obvert please. Or Nashvilian - 3/17/2012 5:19:52 PM   
rjopel

 

Posts: 539
Joined: 12/19/2007
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline 		It's all gone. n I just can't defend against this:

Ground combat at Paoshan (65,45)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 121741 troops, 1969 guns, 1113 vehicles, Assault Value = 3816

Defending force 42315 troops, 546 guns, 323 vehicles, Assault Value = 806

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 1

Japanese adjusted assault: 2416

Allied adjusted defense: 397

Japanese assault odds: 6 to 1 (fort level 1)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Paoshan !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), preparation(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
2890 casualties reported
Squads: 4 destroyed, 153 disabled
Non Combat: 3 destroyed, 31 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 47 disabled
Vehicles lost 25 (1 destroyed, 24 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
13686 casualties reported
Squads: 613 destroyed, 20 disabled
Non Combat: 691 destroyed, 141 disabled
Engineers: 145 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 288 (279 destroyed, 9 disabled)
Vehicles lost 251 (240 destroyed, 11 disabled)
Units retreated 12


Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
104th/A Division
69th Division
17th Division
40th Division
38th Division
116th Division
24th Division
28th Engineer Regiment
31st Engineer Regiment
3rd Tank Regiment
36th Division
71st Engineer Regiment
12th Division
104th/B Division
12th Ind.Hvy.Art Battalion
11th Army
16th Army
71st Mountain Gun Regiment
Tonei Hvy Gun Regiment
2nd Mortar Battalion
10th Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
1st Field Artillery Regiment
4th Mortar Battalion
20th Ind. Mtn Gun Battalion
1st Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
Botanko Hvy Gun Regiment
21st Mortar Battalion
2nd Mobile Field Artillery Regiment
8th Engineer Regiment
8th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
12th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
12th Army
15th Ind.Medium Field Artillery Regiment
1st Army
1st Mortar Battalion
4th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
3rd Hvy.Artillery Regiment
51st Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion
11th Ind.Hvy.Art Battalion
6th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
5th Ind.Hvy.Art Battalion
11th Field Artillery Regiment
1st Hvy.Artillery Regiment
6th RF Gun Battalion
10th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
2nd Hvy.Artillery Regiment
7th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
5th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
2nd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
9th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
8th Mountain Gun Regiment
6th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
10th Mortar Battalion
2nd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
52nd Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion
31st Mountain Gun Regiment
20th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
14th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
10th Mortar Battalion
2nd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
23rd Army
3rd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
28th Mountain Gun Regiment
3rd RF Gun Battalion
7th RF Gun Battalion
7th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
13th Ind.Hvy.Art Battalion

Defending units:
5th Chinese Corps
64th Chinese Corps
4th Chinese Cavalry Corps
5th Indian Division
5th Group Army
NCAC
5th War Area
1st Artillery Regiment
7th Group Army
16th Chinese Base Force
12th Construction Regiment
6th Mixed A/T Mtr Rgt /1


Supply was ok until I lost north China and it's oil/fuel to run the Light Industries.

I think a partial way to solve is the stacking limits mods.

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 27
RE: Help in China! No Obvert please. Or Nashvilian - 3/22/2012 10:01:04 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 1816
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		So, latest update and finally some semi good news!

Obvert made a rivercrossing against my entrenched and starved troops last turn. I donīt think he is very happy with the result. I had thought he would move against the city intstead. Shame he didnīt!

Anyway, Iīm contemplating doing something really, really bold/rash/stupid. Iīm thinking of trying to cut off his stack by emptying Chihkiang and moving across the river to the east. If I get there first I donīt think he can dislodge me? He has to shock attack across the river and his units are not in the best of shape. The danger is if he arrives before me in which case I will be destroyed and he gets China. If I succeed I could delay the fall of China for atleast a few months, at best a year or more! So much is at stake here.

How stupid is this?! If I ever needed advice this is the time. So please please help me!

EDIT: I should add that the supply situation in Chihkiang is horrible. Each Corps have between 100-300 supply.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by JocMeister -- 3/22/2012 10:13:11 PM >

(in reply to rjopel)
Post #: 28
RE: Help in China! No Obvert please. Or Nashvilian - 3/23/2012 12:38:32 AM   
USS America


Posts: 15092
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Raleigh, NC, USA
Status: offline 		My "off the cuff" choice would be to go for it. If he's going to conquer China anyway, make him pay for it.

Your troops should be able to make it across the river before his disrupted and probably fatigued troops can. You can always cancel your troops' movement orders if you see his guys make it there a turn before you or more. You can also move back across the river to the city via the road connection faster than his guys can move into the city from the NE, cross country, if he should manage to kick your guys out of his initial crossing hex. Counter punch, (maybe get his pinned down guys cut off from supply if you can surround the hex with small units)and then fall back into the city. Ignoring anything that might be happening in the rest of the world, I like it.

_____________________________

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

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(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 29
RE: Help in China! No Obvert please. Or Nashvilian - 3/23/2012 7:12:57 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 1816
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Ha! I did. Lets see how he reacts when he sees 4500 AV moving up behind him... I do have a feeling this is going to backfire so badly on me!

(in reply to USS America)
Post #: 30
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