Matrix Games Forums

Deal of the Week Pride of NationsTo End All Wars Releasing on Steam! Slitherine is recruiting: Programmers requiredPandora: Eclipse of Nashira gets release dateCommunity impressions of To End All WarsAgeod's To End All Wars is now availableTo End All Wars is now available!Deal of the Week: Field of GloryTo End All Wars: Video, AAR and Interview!Ageod's To End All Wars: Video, AAR and Interview!
Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

RE: New Public Beta 1.05.53 of WitE now Available!

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> RE: New Public Beta 1.05.53 of WitE now Available! Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: New Public Beta 1.05.53 of WitE now Available! - 1/9/2012 7:15:17 PM   
Helpless


Posts: 11826
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: online
quote:

Start the game on 23 June 1941 with the historical soviet losses on the ground already applied.


This would be very interesting scenario worth of the huge historical research as in most cases it is a big unknown what were "historical" losses on "23 June 1941".

_____________________________

Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW Development

(in reply to redmarkus4)
Post #: 31
RE: New Public Beta 1.05.53 of WitE now Available! - 1/9/2012 7:17:31 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 6325
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: online
Pavel, even if we could pin down the numbers, odds are good that as many people would hate this as like it. There are some serious Luftwaffe junkies out there.

_____________________________

WitE Alpha Tester

(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 32
RE: New Public Beta 1.05.53 of WitE now Available! - 1/9/2012 7:23:01 PM   
Helpless


Posts: 11826
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: online
I meant not only air losses, Flavio. These are not a big problem as it may seem. Condition of Red Army is much bigger problem.

_____________________________

Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW Development

(in reply to Flaviusx)
Post #: 33
RE: New Public Beta 1.05.53 of WitE now Available! - 1/10/2012 12:24:03 AM   
krieger


Posts: 36
Joined: 1/13/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Helpless

quote:

1. Will the split now happen?


It should happen.


I had the previous version installed (1.05.45 I think) when I captured the 3 towns required for the split and it didn't happen the following turn. Then I looked for new updates and installed 1.05.53 and the split has taken place now after AI moved and a new turn started. Well, the only problem I see is that I think that the assigment of leaders is incorrect as List is attached to Army Group B (with 4.PzArmee and 6.Armee attached). I think Army Group A is the one going into the Caucasus historically. Also the morale of AG B is 50 or so now (it should be the opossite if AG A was the new HQ created). Whilem List commanded Armeegruppe A from the Artemovsk region and von Bock was soon reliefed of command of Armeegruppe B after argument with Führer about how best to encircle the Southwestern Front. von Weichss took command of AG B. This is about July 42. It's important cause later on AG A becomes AG south ukraine, etc.

Also, I was wondering if the game contemplates the arrival in early 43 of Army detachments Kempf or Hollidt to compensate the losses of 11.Armee and 6.Armee.

< Message edited by krieger -- 1/10/2012 12:28:19 AM >

(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 34
RE: New Public Beta 1.05.53 of WitE now Available! - 1/10/2012 3:46:48 PM   
Helpless


Posts: 11826
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: online
quote:

Also the morale of AG B is 50 or so now (it should be the opossite if AG A was the new HQ created).


HQ morale is not used much. You can ignore it.



_____________________________

Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW Development

(in reply to krieger)
Post #: 35
RE: New Public Beta 1.05.53 of WitE now Available! - 1/10/2012 5:21:29 PM   
krieger


Posts: 36
Joined: 1/13/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Helpless

quote:

Also the morale of AG B is 50 or so now (it should be the opossite if AG A was the new HQ created).


HQ morale is not used much. You can ignore it.




Then why not make it 70 at start (german NM in 1942)?. Anyhow I expect it to gravitate towards NM.

(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 36
RE: New Public Beta 1.05.53 of WitE now Available! - 1/10/2012 5:22:41 PM   
Helpless


Posts: 11826
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: online
quote:

Then why not make it 70 at start (german NM in 1942)?


To increase the post count on the forum..

_____________________________

Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW Development

(in reply to krieger)
Post #: 37
RE: New Public Beta 1.05.53 of WitE now Available! - 1/10/2012 6:03:30 PM   
krieger


Posts: 36
Joined: 1/13/2011
Status: offline
That wasn't my point but if you like...

(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 38
RE: New Public Beta 1.05.53 of WitE now Available! - 1/11/2012 4:37:35 AM   
Tentpeg

 

Posts: 45
Joined: 1/6/2012
Status: offline
Helpless have you ever considered a career as a comedian?

Oh yeah, add another post to the forum count.

(in reply to krieger)
Post #: 39
RE: New Public Beta 1.05.53 of WitE now Available! - 1/11/2012 9:11:46 AM   
Deserted Fox

 

Posts: 150
Joined: 8/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx


quote:

ORIGINAL: redmarkus4

I would have thought that the WiTP December 8 start would provide the obvious answer to this problem. Start the game on 23 June 1941 with the historical soviet losses on the ground already applied. Then there is no need for a complex set of calculations that attempt to replicate an anomaly - just abstract it.


This solution would make a lot of folks unhappy. They actually like to micromanage the Luftwaffe strikes and run up the score, it is practically its own minigame. (I'm one of these people who considers the whole air war a bother and am not fond of micromanaging it, but tastes vary.)



+1

Ahmen Flav.

I like to play the Russians but will try the Germans soon against a friend. My biggest headache is having to micro airfield attacks first turn.

(in reply to Flaviusx)
Post #: 40
RE: New Public Beta 1.05.53 of WitE now Available! - 1/11/2012 2:29:49 PM   
marty_01

 

Posts: 288
Joined: 2/10/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Helpless

quote:

Then why not make it 70 at start (german NM in 1942)?


To increase the post count on the forum..


+1 additional post.

(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 41
RE: New Public Beta 1.05.53 of WitE now Available! - 1/12/2012 1:34:48 AM   
jazman

 

Posts: 364
Joined: 1/20/2007
From: Crush Depth
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Helpless

quote:

Then why not make it 70 at start (german NM in 1942)?


To increase the post count on the forum..


Let me do my part here to help.

_____________________________

BS, MS, PhD, WitP:AE, WitE

(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 42
RE: New Public Beta 1.05.53 of WitE now Available! - 1/12/2012 10:13:50 AM   
Michael T


Posts: 2341
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline
quote:

Is there a plan to address the 'March madness' problem in the next release?

Yes.



Any clue as to what this might entail Pavel/Joel and when is it likely to get to us?

_____________________________

'Deus le Volt!'
------------------

(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 43
RE: New Public Beta 1.05.53 of WitE now Available! - 1/12/2012 11:36:47 AM   
BigAnorak


Posts: 4673
Joined: 7/10/2006
From: The Duchy of Cornwall, nr England
Status: offline
Testers (and ex-testers) have been given a series of proposals by Joel and Pavel to deal with the specific issues relating to March, and testers ( and ex-testers) have responded with comments and opinions on the proposed solutions.

The proposals seemed reasonable to me with a few caveats. No code has been issued for testing.

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 44
RE: New Public Beta 1.05.53 of WitE now Available! - 1/12/2012 6:30:42 PM   
redmarkus4


Posts: 4085
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: 0.00
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deserted Fox


quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx


quote:

ORIGINAL: redmarkus4

I would have thought that the WiTP December 8 start would provide the obvious answer to this problem. Start the game on 23 June 1941 with the historical soviet losses on the ground already applied. Then there is no need for a complex set of calculations that attempt to replicate an anomaly - just abstract it.


This solution would make a lot of folks unhappy. They actually like to micromanage the Luftwaffe strikes and run up the score, it is practically its own minigame. (I'm one of these people who considers the whole air war a bother and am not fond of micromanaging it, but tastes vary.)



+1

Ahmen Flav.

I like to play the Russians but will try the Germans soon against a friend. My biggest headache is having to micro airfield attacks first turn.



I'm not suggesting that the existing 22 June start be dispensed with - just that an optional June 23 start, for those whose tastes go that way, could be added. Exactly like WiTP.

Pavel - this would only affect the air war. Ground combat would commence on 23 June (or better still, at 0900 on 22 June AFTER the airfield strikes) and would be treated exactly as it is now. Luftwaffe capabilities would be reduced on turn one to account for the airfield strikes having gone in.

No major research should be needed. To address the views of different players on levels of Soviet AC losses during the first week, an option box could be added that allows the player to select 'high', 'historical' or 'low', with 'historical' being based on a named source, such as Glantz etc. In MP, this setting would need to be agreed between the players as with other settings such as weather. The selection would affect the percentage of LW sorties used prior to the start of the game.

_____________________________

Cyberpower tower PC
Intel Core i7-3930k CPU, 3.20GHz processor
32 GB RAM
2TB HD
2xNVIDIA GeForce GTX 680 graphics cards, each with 4095 MB
Realtek sound card
Dell 3007WFP (running at 2560x1600) 32 bit monitor
Windows 7 Professional 64-bit O

(in reply to Deserted Fox)
Post #: 45
RE: New Public Beta 1.05.53 of WitE now Available! - 1/12/2012 9:23:02 PM   
Helpless


Posts: 11826
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: online
quote:

Pavel - this would only affect the air war. Ground combat would commence on 23 June (or better still, at 0900 on 22 June AFTER the airfield strikes) and would be treated exactly as it is now. Luftwaffe capabilities would be reduced on turn one to account for the airfield strikes having gone in.

No major research should be needed. To address the views of different players on levels of Soviet AC losses during the first week, an option box could be added that allows the player to select 'high', 'historical' or 'low', with 'historical' being based on a named source, such as Glantz etc. In MP, this setting would need to be agreed between the players as with other settings such as weather. The selection would affect the percentage of LW sorties used prior to the start of the game.


I see the point Mark, but it is not that easy to make 23 June start without altering ground units. There would be no first turn surprise on this day. Of cause you can make alternative 22nd start assuming all the air losses taken on the ground and in the skies (which were majority) performing first 4 days airfield bombings. But this would require some house rules as well. Such setup would eliminate some ahistorical results in the skies. Meanwhile most important ahistorical results on the first turn are on the ground right now, not in the skies (ex. Lvov pocket, etc)

_____________________________

Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW Development

(in reply to redmarkus4)
Post #: 46
RE: New Public Beta 1.05.53 of WitE now Available! - 1/12/2012 11:28:05 PM   
asdicus

 

Posts: 251
Joined: 5/16/2002
From: Surrey,UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Helpless



I see the point Mark, but it is not that easy to make 23 June start without altering ground units. There would be no first turn surprise on this day. Of cause you can make alternative 22nd start assuming all the air losses taken on the ground and in the skies (which were majority) performing first 4 days airfield bombings. But this would require some house rules as well. Such setup would eliminate some ahistorical results in the skies. Meanwhile most important ahistorical results on the first turn are on the ground right now, not in the skies (ex. Lvov pocket, etc)

Do the developers/testers have any plans to make changes re the Lvov pocket opening move ? I started a thread on the subject last year and of course there were lots of opinions(10 pages worth!) on the subject both for and against the move. I was hoping the developers might make some small changes in the 41 campaign scenario to the opening russian unit dispositions. This would allow the russian player to make more a fight against the army group south advance - as per history.

(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 47
RE: New Public Beta 1.05.53 of WitE now Available! - 1/12/2012 11:43:32 PM   
Helpless


Posts: 11826
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: online
quote:

Do the developers/testers have any plans to make changes re the Lvov pocket opening move ?


Yes, to some extent, but it is not so small as may look like.

_____________________________

Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW Development

(in reply to asdicus)
Post #: 48
RE: New Public Beta 1.05.53 of WitE now Available! - 1/15/2012 2:35:18 PM   
Shupov


Posts: 216
Joined: 2/7/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jamesm

I was trying to assign Level bomber and then fighter bomber to different airfields using the type selector in the assign screen.  I first deselected all and choose the type mentioned and I had trouble closing the window unless I selected a second group namely tactical bombers and then reopening the window and deselecting the second group.  Also it worked after just doing the normal method a couple of times (closing the window and reopening it).  I have not noticed this issue in previous versions.



+1 The "Assign an air unit from National Reserve" aircraft type filter function is broken in 1.05.53

_____________________________

Two broken Tigers on fire in the night,
Flicker their souls to the wind...

Al Stewart, "Roads to Moscow"

(in reply to jamesm)
Post #: 49
RE: New Public Beta 1.05.53 of WitE now Available! - 1/15/2012 3:50:47 PM   
Bobswanson53

 

Posts: 12
Joined: 12/11/2010
Status: offline
Thanks for your continued support of this great game.

(in reply to Andrew Loveridge)
Post #: 50
RE: New Public Beta 1.05.53 of WitE now Available! - 1/16/2012 8:43:01 PM   
horse1974

 

Posts: 15
Joined: 11/9/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobswanson53

Thanks for your continued support of this great game.

+1

(in reply to Bobswanson53)
Post #: 51
RE: New Public Beta 1.05.53 of WitE now Available! - 1/20/2012 11:04:45 AM   
Helpless


Posts: 11826
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: online
quote:

+1 The "Assign an air unit from National Reserve" aircraft type filter function is broken in 1.05.53


It seems that "slider bar" of inactive window in background is resetting mouse clicks. I'm able to replicate it. The workaround till we fix it would be to click on the area which is not overlapping with slider bar - right/top.





_____________________________

Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW Development

(in reply to Shupov)
Post #: 52
RE: New Public Beta 1.05.53 of WitE now Available! - 1/20/2012 5:08:13 PM   
Schmart

 

Posts: 652
Joined: 9/13/2010
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Helpless

quote:

+1 The "Assign an air unit from National Reserve" aircraft type filter function is broken in 1.05.53


It seems that "slider bar" of inactive window in background is resetting mouse clicks. I'm able to replicate it. The workaround till we fix it would be to click on the area which is not overlapping with slider bar - right/top.


Wow, nice find!

(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 53
RE: New Public Beta 1.05.53 of WitE now Available! - 2/1/2012 2:08:50 PM   
DorianGray

 

Posts: 113
Joined: 8/2/2008
Status: offline
On my end as the Germans against a Soviet AI, I believe my current game (with Beta 1.05.53) turn 1 air-losses incurred by the Soviets was pretty close to historical accurate. Where as previously, I was inflicting 5000-6000 aircraft losses against the SU.

I am one of those who tend to micro-manage the airwar, at least as the Germans. So my results may not be typical of using any of the default or auto settings or features.

(in reply to mantill)
Post #: 54
RE: New Public Beta 1.05.53 of WitE now Available! - 2/3/2012 5:11:11 AM   
redmarkus4


Posts: 4085
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: 0.00
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Loveridge

19) AI Changes – Improved AI to be more aggressive attacking victory objectives in later turns of smaller scenarios. Improved the AI command and control so that it tries to assign areas for each German Army or Soviet Front, and keep the units within those areas attached to appropriate HQs. Ongoing improvements in attack selection AI. Improved AI use of ground support especially when attacking fortified units. Improved defensive line routine (greatly reduced chance of failure in line building) and increased Soviet attack aggressiveness in mid/late war. Improved AI rail repair.



This is great news, but did we really have to wait a year to get this addressed? Many of the issues with the AI were clear on Day 2 after commercial release, but none of the 'powers that be' were willing to admit this.

Secondly, I may have missed it, but I can't spot any reference to the game breaking "March '42 Madness" problem, whereby Soviet capabilities mysteriously collapse in relation to Axis combat capabilities, regardless of the strategic turn of events.

_____________________________

Cyberpower tower PC
Intel Core i7-3930k CPU, 3.20GHz processor
32 GB RAM
2TB HD
2xNVIDIA GeForce GTX 680 graphics cards, each with 4095 MB
Realtek sound card
Dell 3007WFP (running at 2560x1600) 32 bit monitor
Windows 7 Professional 64-bit O

(in reply to Andrew Loveridge)
Post #: 55
RE: New Public Beta 1.05.53 of WitE now Available! - 2/3/2012 9:54:59 AM   
Rasputitsa


Posts: 1686
Joined: 6/30/2001
From: Bedfordshire UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: redmarkus4
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings
Losses during airbase attacks have come down at least twice during the past few months. The most recent reduction was probably mostly due to the restriction on airfield attacks that the air group must have flown less than 1/3 of their available miles to fly the mission (this had been 1/2 before the recent change - other smaller changes probably had a minor impact here and there). There was always debate internally on what the appropriate loss numbers on turn 1 should be. A human player that knew what they were doing was usually able to kill more aircraft than the historical numbers. The AI, which isn't quite as smart, would kill less, but was still usually over the historical total. Of course there was always some price to using up your aircraft flying airfield attacks as you were limited in your ground support. We think the numbers that can be achieved on turn 1 are still in the right historical range, although there's no doubt debate on exactly what that number should be. We felt the reduction on turn 1 was ok, and wanted to further limit the problems that were being reported with the abuse of airbase attacks during the rest of the game.


I would have thought that the WiTP December 8 start would provide the obvious answer to this problem. Start the game on 23 June 1941 with the historical soviet losses on the ground already applied. Then there is no need for a complex set of calculations that attempt to replicate an anomaly - just abstract it.


I am not sure about this, maybe copying the historical German strategy is the obvious thing to do, but if a player wants to choose a different strategy, there should be the possibility of different results.

If a player chooses to make an all-out airfield attack, ignoring all other potential air tasks, then it should be possible to achieve higher than the historical results. How much of the German air effort was directed against airfields on the 22nd June, because we cannot compare a player's maximum effort on airfields against an historical German plan, which may not have directed all their effort against airfields.

I hope it's not 'this is what happened on the day, so this is what must happen in the game'.

_____________________________

"We have to go from where we are, not from where we would like to be" - me

(in reply to redmarkus4)
Post #: 56
RE: New Public Beta 1.05.53 of WitE now Available! - 2/3/2012 10:16:52 AM   
redmarkus4


Posts: 4085
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: 0.00
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rasputitsa

I am not sure about this, maybe copying the historical German strategy is the obvious thing to do, but if a player wants to choose a different strategy, there should be the possibility of different results.

If a player chooses to make an all-out airfield attack, ignoring all other potential air tasks, then it should be possible to achieve higher than the historical results. How much of the German air effort was directed against airfields on the 22nd June, because we cannot compare a player's maximum effort on airfields against an historical German plan, which may not have directed all their effort against airfields.

I hope it's not 'this is what happened on the day, so this is what must happen in the game'.


WiTE Scenario 1 - June 22 Start (historical)
WiTE Scenario 2 - June 23 Start (historical)
WiTE Scenario 3 - June 22 Start (Northern focus)
WiTE Scenario 4 - June 22 Start (Southern focus)
WiTE Scenario 5 - June 22 (?) Start (Soviet preemptive strike)
Etc...
WiTE Scenario 90 - Modded Scenario 1
Etc.

We've been through all this with WiTP. I'm surprised it's still up for debate.

_____________________________

Cyberpower tower PC
Intel Core i7-3930k CPU, 3.20GHz processor
32 GB RAM
2TB HD
2xNVIDIA GeForce GTX 680 graphics cards, each with 4095 MB
Realtek sound card
Dell 3007WFP (running at 2560x1600) 32 bit monitor
Windows 7 Professional 64-bit O

(in reply to Rasputitsa)
Post #: 57
RE: New Public Beta 1.05.53 of WitE now Available! - 2/3/2012 10:45:23 AM   
Rasputitsa


Posts: 1686
Joined: 6/30/2001
From: Bedfordshire UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: redmarkus4
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rasputitsa
I am not sure about this, maybe copying the historical German strategy is the obvious thing to do, but if a player wants to choose a different strategy, there should be the possibility of different results.

If a player chooses to make an all-out airfield attack, ignoring all other potential air tasks, then it should be possible to achieve higher than the historical results. How much of the German air effort was directed against airfields on the 22nd June, because we cannot compare a player's maximum effort on airfields against an historical German plan, which may not have directed all their effort against airfields.

I hope it's not 'this is what happened on the day, so this is what must happen in the game'.


WiTE Scenario 1 - June 22 Start (historical)
WiTE Scenario 2 - June 23 Start (historical)
WiTE Scenario 3 - June 22 Start (Northern focus)
WiTE Scenario 4 - June 22 Start (Southern focus)
WiTE Scenario 5 - June 22 (?) Start (Soviet preemptive strike)
Etc...
WiTE Scenario 90 - Modded Scenario 1
Etc.

We've been through all this with WiTP. I'm surprised it's still up for debate.


My point is that, the rationale seems to be to adjust losses towards the historical results (obviously history is the guide to the game mechanics), but if the player has chosen to make a maximum effort on airfield attacks, ignoring other air tasks, how does that compare with the historical German strategy of the 22nd June. I don't know the answer, but merely noting that it may be possible to achieve more than the historical results, using a different strategy.

So if players were achieving +6000, could the Germans have achieved the same with a different strategy on the day.


_____________________________

"We have to go from where we are, not from where we would like to be" - me

(in reply to redmarkus4)
Post #: 58
RE: New Public Beta 1.05.53 of WitE now Available! - 2/3/2012 11:42:07 AM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 6325
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: redmarkus4

Secondly, I may have missed it, but I can't spot any reference to the game breaking "March '42 Madness" problem, whereby Soviet capabilities mysteriously collapse in relation to Axis combat capabilities, regardless of the strategic turn of events.


This is being addressed, have no fear.



_____________________________

WitE Alpha Tester

(in reply to redmarkus4)
Post #: 59
RE: New Public Beta 1.05.53 of WitE now Available! - 2/3/2012 5:03:14 PM   
redmarkus4


Posts: 4085
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: 0.00
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx


quote:

ORIGINAL: redmarkus4

Secondly, I may have missed it, but I can't spot any reference to the game breaking "March '42 Madness" problem, whereby Soviet capabilities mysteriously collapse in relation to Axis combat capabilities, regardless of the strategic turn of events.


This is being addressed, have no fear.




Thanks. Good to know that it's being treated seriously. Looking forward to a return to WiTE campaigning in a month or two then ;)

_____________________________

Cyberpower tower PC
Intel Core i7-3930k CPU, 3.20GHz processor
32 GB RAM
2TB HD
2xNVIDIA GeForce GTX 680 graphics cards, each with 4095 MB
Realtek sound card
Dell 3007WFP (running at 2560x1600) 32 bit monitor
Windows 7 Professional 64-bit O

(in reply to Flaviusx)
Post #: 60
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> RE: New Public Beta 1.05.53 of WitE now Available! Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.117