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RE: Better Graphics

 
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RE: Better Graphics - 4/30/2012 11:59:40 PM   
TAIL_GUNNER

 

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quote:

If you guys are serious and the game can take a newer resolution, or 32 bit...


I doubt it can handle 32-bit, but I know it can handle 24-bit.

(in reply to digiartst)
Post #: 91
RE: Better Graphics - 5/1/2012 1:58:17 AM   
digiartst

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TAIL_GUNNER

quote:

If you guys are serious and the game can take a newer resolution, or 32 bit...


I doubt it can handle 32-bit, but I know it can handle 24-bit.


I am just getting over a nasty virus, plus still having dad duty, but what I will try to get out either tonight or tomorrow night is a 24bit, 160x160 resolution of my truck and I will also try to put it on some 24 bit ground. I will also put out a indexed color 80x80 (or what ever truck size is in the original game). to show the visual difference. and we will go from there.

James

JAGER56

(in reply to TAIL_GUNNER)
Post #: 92
RE: Better Graphics - 5/1/2012 2:00:41 AM   
junk2drive


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quote:

ORIGINAL: digiartst


quote:

ORIGINAL: Warhorse

Yep, no 3D here, James!! Sorry, I only did what I could do with limited time and resources. Some vehicles I couldn't find decent pics of, so did what I could. I always wished I could get a good camera and models to do just that, as a 1/285th modeller, I painted LOTS of vehicles, still have 'em, painted numbers on the turrets and everything, but a camera and tripod, I have not!!

Mike


If you guys are serious and the game can take a newer resolution, or 32 bit , I have the setup , camera, tripod, turntable lights.. etc, to photograph GHQ miniatures just like TS did. I also have 2 friends that have a lot of the units so I could run tests on them, but what would be a standard resolution you would want the unit to be? the present units are approx 88x88 (give or take depending on unit)indexed color, so are we talking 200x200/32 bit. TS made a deal with GHQ hence if you notice in the old TS manuals they advertised GHQ in the back. Maybe Matrix could swing the same deal for needed units I could not get my hands on.That would still leave terrain but most Terrain could be made in any kind of game toolkit these days, like NWN2 tool kit then reworked in Photoshop.
The German fuel truck is 85% done, it should have been done earlier but I kept building a lot of detail in it you probably would never see, because I work in 3d product development now and everything has to be precise.

So hopefully I will publish some pictures of it tonight, after I get my homework duty done with my kids.

Guys for the tools you had to work with you did a great job, the question is can this game support modern graphics, and would that make it sell more? because that would be a lot of work.

James

Jager56
Digiartst





Just to be clear, I was talking about desktop resolution size, not bmp resolution or bit. Looking at the Up##### files, there doesn't seem to be a standard size, but maybe a standard ratio. Warhorse would know better. Most games now have bmps of 512 or 1024 square. I don't know how these would get squeezed down into CS size. Might lose the detail.

I doubt that anything would get more games sold. New wars and time periods are the only hope for sales. Like they are doing with the Modern Wars series.

(in reply to digiartst)
Post #: 93
RE: Better Graphics - 5/1/2012 3:44:53 AM   
junk2drive


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Had another thought, there is a poll in the forum for playing 3D or 2D. You should look at that too.

You may be an artist and want to create your own work but there are sights with free textures such as turbosquid and this one

http://opengameart.org/textures/all

They wouldn't be able to be used in a game for sale but for a free mod it wouldn't be a problem.

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Post #: 94
RE: Better Graphics - 5/1/2012 11:06:16 AM   
digiartst

 

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You Know I will make something and post it frm time to time, if you guys use it then cool.

here is the opel fuel truck still wip 200x200








Here is the opel fuel truck 100x100 or CS resolution






I wanted to post these asap to show I am the real deal, someone that actually did art for the game.
I hate when somebody new is all wind and no sail so I wanted to get the truck posted asap, I have not checked the camera angle or done anything more to it but build it and throw a quick texture on it.


James

JAGER56






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Post #: 95
RE: Better Graphics - 5/1/2012 1:50:34 PM   
junk2drive


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Very nice. There are times that I wish I could zoom in one more level and have the units look like the first picture.

You know that you will have to upgrade the rest of the Opel based units in the game now.

(in reply to digiartst)
Post #: 96
RE: Better Graphics - 5/1/2012 4:58:48 PM   
Jason Petho


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quote:

ORIGINAL: digiartst



I wanted to post these asap to show I am the real deal, someone that actually did art for the game.
I hate when somebody new is all wind and no sail so I wanted to get the truck posted asap, I have not checked the camera angle or done anything more to it but build it and throw a quick texture on it.



Holy crap, that's gorgeous!!

Jason Petho

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Post #: 97
RE: Better Graphics - 5/1/2012 7:40:29 PM   
digiartst

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

Very nice. There are times that I wish I could zoom in one more level and have the units look like the first picture.

You know that you will have to upgrade the rest of the Opel based units in the game now.


Yes me to, the cool part to me and this is what I told TS was a lot of these vehicles do not exist any more. Unfortunately none of the vehicles I made for the game exist anymore they were on a syquist drive backup and a zip disk that my kids threw away as old disks to my horror years later. I do still have all the line drawings though.

Anyway I loved building the Romanian and Polish units because of the crazy equipment they put men into to fight.
I would be like "Really you want me to climb into this tin can and fight what????". I got to build all the obscure units, not the Tigers, they had GHQ for that but The Romanian Tcam for instance.

Some one made a comment earlier about Terrain , just get it off of Turbo squid. yes you can but the artists at TS gave us the illusion of the terrain being 3d this was achieved with light and shadow. a flat Terrain grabbed up at Turbo will not give that look. I will try to do some Terrain over the next weeks so you can see what I mean.


James

Jager56





(in reply to junk2drive)
Post #: 98
RE: Better Graphics - 5/1/2012 8:01:30 PM   
Jason Petho


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Outstanding, James.

If you create the 6 view vehicles, I am more than happy to create bit's for them and include them in future UPDATES, or even has temporary graphics patches until the UPDATEs are ready.

Hope you're well!
Jason Petho


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Post #: 99
RE: Better Graphics - 5/1/2012 9:04:54 PM   
tide1530

 

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That is very nice. I would like to shoot it

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Post #: 100
RE: Better Graphics - 5/1/2012 10:25:37 PM   
digiartst

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jason Petho

Outstanding, James.

If you create the 6 view vehicles, I am more than happy to create bit's for them and include them in future UPDATES, or even has temporary graphics patches until the UPDATEs are ready.

Hope you're well!
Jason Petho



OK Jason: Let me tell you I am an artist and not that technical when it comes to all the programming stuff, so
right now we have to stay in the CS framework, indexed colors, roughly 100x100 resolution, right you aren't asking me to put out 200x200 even though I would love too. we just have to cruise along at the old CS settings right.

James

(in reply to Jason Petho)
Post #: 101
RE: Better Graphics - 5/1/2012 10:57:53 PM   
Jason Petho


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quote:

ORIGINAL: digiartst

OK Jason: Let me tell you I am an artist and not that technical when it comes to all the programming stuff, so
right now we have to stay in the CS framework, indexed colors, roughly 100x100 resolution, right you aren't asking me to put out 200x200 even though I would love too. we just have to cruise along at the old CS settings right.

James



Hi James, yes, at this point the standard format should be used.

I have inquired to Erik from Matrix Games on the possibility of increasing the graphics to 24-bit or 32-bit. Still waiting to hear back what is involved and how realistic is to achieve.

Jason Petho


< Message edited by Jason Petho -- 5/1/2012 10:58:04 PM >


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Post #: 102
RE: Better Graphics - 5/2/2012 1:53:52 AM   
junk2drive


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Thanks Jason. The terrain and 3D models aren't so bad as they are now but the turn indicator popup, scenario pics and unit info pics in 8 bit black and white are pretty bad in this day and age.

James it will be fun watching for your projects to pop out from time to time. We players have been waiting for updates to WF and RS for so long and are still here. We will be here for your work no matter how long it takes.

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Post #: 103
RE: Better Graphics - 5/2/2012 10:25:38 AM   
MrRoadrunner


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+1 Junk!



RR

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Post #: 104
RE: Better Graphics - 5/2/2012 10:28:35 AM   
Warhorse


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I've been trying, particularly in the K'talan mod, to have color scenario and unit pics, I also redid the F2 unit info menu. Turn indicator also.

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Post #: 105
RE: Better Graphics - 5/2/2012 10:28:36 AM   
Ashcloud


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRoadrunner

+1 Junk!



RR


+2

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Post #: 106
Graphic question - 5/3/2012 10:47:01 PM   
digiartst

 

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SO if I make a batch program in Photoshop and batch process all the CS art to double res , will it work in the game?

James

Then I would have a better res to do work on but can the game handle the change of base res.


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Post #: 107
RE: Graphic question - 5/4/2012 12:10:29 AM   
Jason Petho


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quote:

ORIGINAL: digiartst

SO if I make a batch program in Photoshop and batch process all the CS art to double res , will it work in the game?

James

Then I would have a better res to do work on but can the game handle the change of base res.




You could test one one of existing bmp and bits and see how it looks in your game?

Jason Petho

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Post #: 108
RE: Graphic question - 5/4/2012 12:41:21 AM   
digiartst

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jason Petho


quote:

ORIGINAL: digiartst

SO if I make a batch program in Photoshop and batch process all the CS art to double res , will it work in the game?

James

Then I would have a better res to do work on but can the game handle the change of base res.




You could test one one of existing bmp and bits and see how it looks in your game?

Jason Petho



No that is not what I meant looks, I meant will it center correctly , line up correctly etc. I might just run the script and go for broke and try the game the script will probably run all night long to update everything.

James

Wait do the bit files tell resolution oh that would be bad?





(in reply to Jason Petho)
Post #: 109
RE: Graphic question - 6/1/2012 12:12:50 PM   
rjl518


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does this mean that JTCS is going to have a graphics update as well as a regular update? I still play this game on a regular basis

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Post #: 110
RE: Graphic question - 6/1/2012 4:53:21 PM   
Josh

 

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I certainly hope so, it's one of my classics, it's been on my HD ever since the first EF came out. It could use some sort of graphic update though. It looked smashing back in the day, but things sure have moved on from then.

(in reply to rjl518)
Post #: 111
RE: Better Graphics - 6/18/2012 7:37:53 PM   
Nebfer

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: digiartst
Gentlemen: I was a part of the old Talonsoft graphics team for East Front 2 and West Front. I was not paid staff but a fan. I became a part of the team based on all the graphics mods I did.
To answer your questions, Talonsoft used GHQ Miniatures primed and took photos of them on white lit for no shadow, the miniature was on a small turntable with marks to line up the 6 angles needed for the vehicle.
With East Front 2 they did not have alot of miniatures of the poles or hungarians to call upon . Charlie Uncliss from Talonsoft asked me if I could build the vehicles they needed from line drawing they would provide for me, I built almost all the Romanian units and many of the Polish and Italian trucks and guns that had no miniature representation. also the 6 rad german scout car and one of the other 4 wheel scout cars, basically anything they did not have a miniature for. The reproduction of the rulebook leaves off alot of the old credits or you would see my special thanks credit in the back of the manual.
When I first got East Front the German units were all desert color, so my first mod was to make the units Grey with mud,these are the standard units you see in the Game now. Basically in photoshop I retinted the units grey and pulled keys to only make the brown paint turn grey. I also made snow, and Western Front Camo units, but back in those days you had to manually load the different graphics because they did not write the progam to change the art by Season untill West front came along.
I only did the vehicles so I do not know how the did the terrain. but I was turning out 1 vehicle in 3d a night and I did about 40 vehicles in total ,when I did the camo I chose the big vehicles that the camo would show on the most, that took awhile to digitally paint all the camo schemes so that was the slowest, to turn the brow to grey was the fastest, do a magic wand on the brown and desaturate it , any brown edges left over looked like mud or dirt so that was Ok. To increase the graphic quality would be to increase resolution of the various art pieces, but there are thousands of pieces, now granded the pieces seem to hold up fairly well to a 200% blowup in photoshop then some retouching to bring the blurryness back into sharp but still we are talking about thousands of assets. Would I love to see it you bet.
Could the game engine handle a double the resolution type revamp or would its centers be off and new code have to be written to support the new graphics? That I do not know.
I do know the Mr Rose and the Talonsoft team were a great team to work with, and have to me turned out the best graphics for this level of wargame still to this day. I am also so happy Matrix got this game and have done what they have done so far to improve it.

Here is an example of the tiger tank graphic up-rezed to double resolution. I then adjusted the various values contrast,whites and blacks and got the tiger detail back. Could I get it sharper sure I could with additional reworking in photoshop.





The up resed infanrty would give you more to work with , I remember experimenting with waffen SS Camo for the infantry and just not having enough resolution to make it look good, but again the infantry you see in the game came from miniature figures ,sprayed with primer then digitally painted. To get the scale right as some people have wanted which is the infantry in correct size to the vehicles or towns,and still have great detail when zoomed into,it would mean the vehicles would have to be triple res at least. which would mean a simple up-rez would fall apart in detail and have to be replaced by new vehicle artwork from scratch or if Matrix was lucky and was given the high res photos that were taken of the original miniatures ,matrix could digitally paint on the high res pictures making a highly detailed piece of artwork.

I do not see Matrix investing into that so for me I just enjoy the amazing artwork that took at least a year to make by a team of very talented artists.

I hope this kinda sheds a light on how Talonsoft did the original artwork

Digiartst

Formally known as Jager56 for Talonsoft
and part of the Beta Brigade


Well I wondered why they looked like the GHQ minis... Good job.

------------------------------------------
The Units are fine, though I would be great if they could get updated with a higher resolution for a sharper look. The 2D I think could use more improvement. The Terrain could perhaps use some more types, more buildings and what naught.

But I think the AI could use some work... And perhaps the Generic (Random mission) campaigns could use some improvement (like selecting a start and end data, and number of battles to fight during the campaign). Though I would like to see the units not so spreed out in map, I mean a single Battalion could be spread out over a 25 square kilometer area and and the same area has elements of two other battalions...



(in reply to digiartst)
Post #: 112
RE: Better Graphics - 6/29/2012 11:08:58 PM   
Dumnorix


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Take a look at my 3D units for Panzer Corps. If Matrix will put out a new JTCS I can give all my work. Slitherine have no interest on my WW2 and WW3 art - they will use his own bad unit graphics.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3057447

H.Balck

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Post #: 113
RE: Better Graphics - 7/1/2012 1:16:51 PM   
4rakbtl32


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dumnorix

Take a look at my 3D units for Panzer Corps. If Matrix will put out a new JTCS I can give all my work. Slitherine have no interest on my WW2 and WW3 art - they will use his own bad unit graphics.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3057447

H.Balck

Dumnorix, the units are nice, but can you make this units in all 6 views and scale that use by CS ?

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Post #: 114
RE: Better Graphics - 7/3/2012 12:56:00 AM   
Dumnorix


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quote:

Dumnorix, the units are nice, but can you make this units in all 6 views and scale that use by CS ?

Yes - but I can't do it for the old JTCS engine - if Matrix have interest to produce an improved new game between Panzer Corps and JTCS I can give more than 500 units. BTW - not for free !!!

H.Balck

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Post #: 115
RE: Better Graphics - 7/7/2012 3:11:39 PM   
MrRoadrunner


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Oh my.
I thought the General Discussion forum was full of spam.

I see Dumbasrocks still is generous ... and humble.
Please lose the giant faces. Ugh!



RR

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Post #: 116
RE: Better Graphics - 4/4/2013 2:50:18 AM   
junk2drive


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Any word from digiartst lately?

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Post #: 117
RE: Better Graphics - 4/4/2013 3:30:21 AM   
USS Wyoming

 

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For myslf there are only two graphics improvements I could really use.

1. Another level of zoom in 2D to enlarge those icons. I literally need to make them bigger to see them clearly and I'm not blind. I like to play in 2D, but have to jump to 3D to get a closer view.

2. Please let us change the "highlight" colors because I have severe red-green color blindness and cannot easily see the change in colors when you highlight organization or any other display. I can see it while looking directly at it, but cannot zoom out and see the differences, especially in 2D.

Those two items would really improve my enjoyment of the game.

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Post #: 118
RE: Better Graphics - 4/4/2013 8:57:12 PM   
XMG

 

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in this forum I can not post pictures and other WEB Sites. You are not allowed to post links for 7 days from the date of your tenth post..

That's why I start uploading at TheBlitz Forum small details for EF / WF


< Message edited by XMG -- 4/4/2013 8:59:56 PM >

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Post #: 119
RE: Better Graphics - 4/5/2013 9:42:09 AM   
Josh

 

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Sorry that was to combat the spammers.

For anyone interested in XMG's work here's the direct link to the Blitz; http://www.theblitz.org/message_boards/showthread.php?tid=64101



< Message edited by Josh -- 4/5/2013 9:45:08 AM >

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Post #: 120
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