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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War I] >> War Plan Orange: Dreadnoughts in the Pacific 1922 - 1930 >> Aircraft Ratings Page: [1]
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Aircraft Ratings - 12/27/2011 9:59:44 PM   
tex


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Hi everyone,
Thanks to Kirk´s great new artwork for the aircraft in WPO, I actually had a look at the aircraft for the first time. I wanted to see all the new art, so I fired up Editor X, and what I saw was a shocking surprise. The ratings are crap. This has nothing to do with Kirk´s work at all, they are the same in the stock scenarios as well. I am mostly concerned about maneuverability and durability, two rather key factors towards aircraft performance.
Let´s take a look at a few examples:
Sopwith Pup- Man. 28, Dur. 15
Sopwith Camel- Man. 26 Dur. 17
Sopwith Snipe- Man. 27 Dur. 19
Airco DH-4- Man.26 Dur. 17

Ummm, okay, the twin-seater bomber DH 4 has the same ratings as the Sopwith Camel? WTF
Not to mention the Pup, from 1916, being a superior machine to the Camel and Snipe. The Snipe´s ability to absorb damage is well known, so a durability rating of 19 seems a bit low.

So before you start a new game of WPO, you might want to edit these ratings, especially if you are playing one of the new air-intensive scenarios.


Edit: spelling, always spelling.

< Message edited by tex -- 1/3/2012 2:58:20 PM >
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RE: Aircraft Ratings - 12/28/2011 9:43:48 AM   
kirk23


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Tex once you start to create your own scenario's and you start to look at whats in the stock scenario database,thats when your eyes really get opened up, there are a great many Cock ups in the database,you have just picked up on one.

Hows about the Japanese SNLF units coming into 1922-26 stock scenario, when they only became active units 1928-1945 ? Naval Infantry unit go figure,the designers take a number of short cuts.For the CASTLES OF STEEL scenario I'm taking a look at all the aircraft settings from the stock scenarios,and will try to correcting them for patch 5!

< Message edited by kirk23 -- 12/28/2011 10:00:59 AM >


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RE: Aircraft Ratings - 12/28/2011 10:12:46 AM   
kirk23


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Another stock database error I came across was for the Vought VE-7SF fighter,in the database it can carry a bomb load,yet these aircraft never ever carried bombs in reality,they were used for reconnaissance missions,or as fighters only,never as fighter bombers? It was only when I was trying to fix the air / air combat over Guam that I noticed there database error.

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RE: Aircraft Ratings - 12/28/2011 10:19:40 AM   
kirk23


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Tex how about trying to fix all the aircraft maneuverability and durability etc with me,we can contact each other via email regarding this.

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RE: Aircraft Ratings - 12/28/2011 10:26:54 AM   
tex


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I think the designers did indeed take some short cuts, and then offered the premise that there was no Washington Treaty as an excuse. In some cases, it is a fine idea. I think in ship design and building especially, base development, and naval and military deployment this is a valid argument. But I would prefer to keep non naval things, like unit formation, historical. And certainly there is no logic at all behind the completely wrong aircraft ratings.

I wonder if maybe we could all agree on the new ratings so there would be no surprises in pbem games. I know the aircraft of WWI quite well, but those of the 20s I am not so familiar with. So whatever anyone could contribute would be great!

Edit: Hi Kirk, you wrote too fast for me to keep up! I was responding to your first reply. I agree, we should all be on the same page as far as any rating changes.

< Message edited by tex -- 12/28/2011 10:28:29 AM >

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RE: Aircraft Ratings - 12/28/2011 10:30:17 AM   
kirk23


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I'm more ship orientated because of uncle Graham's interest rubbing of on me,but I to would like to see a better more realistic standard set of Aircraft settings that are used for the game.

< Message edited by kirk23 -- 12/28/2011 10:36:08 AM >


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RE: Aircraft Ratings - 12/28/2011 10:51:44 AM   
tex


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As far as being ship oriented, I am in the same boat, so to speak, as you. I would like to do some research on the 1920s aircraft and then form an opinion. Know any good websites?

And if anyone else would like to join in, please feel free to throw your hat in the ring!

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RE: Aircraft Ratings - 12/28/2011 11:10:08 AM   
kirk23


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I have an excellent art access web site here http://www.wwiaviation.com/ this web site is brilliant for info on aircaraft as well,so I also use it for data gathering.

I will do a search for site with more performance figures for aircraft of the era,I normally just use wikipedia!

< Message edited by kirk23 -- 12/28/2011 11:12:53 AM >


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RE: Aircraft Ratings - 12/28/2011 11:29:13 AM   
kirk23


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Typical example from a page taken from the above web site.

http://www.wwiaviation.com/british1916.html#sop-tri


NB!! = According to the 1922-26 stock scenario the Sopwith Pup has an endurance of 155 miles only,but taken that it was capable of doing at least 112mph with an endurance of 3hrs it should have an endurance figure in the region of at least 300 miles.

< Message edited by kirk23 -- 12/28/2011 11:43:06 AM >


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RE: Aircraft Ratings - 12/28/2011 11:52:25 AM   
tex


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Yes, this is a great site for specs, but what I am looking for is a critique on performance. For example, I know a Fokker DR.I could turn circles around a Spad XIII, but what about a P-1 Hawk versus a DR.I? I just don´t have any knowledge at all in this era, aside from the fact the planes look really cool! 

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RE: Aircraft Ratings - 12/28/2011 11:54:44 AM   
tex


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kirk23
NB!! = According to the 1922-26 stock scenario the Sopwith Pup has an endurance of 155 miles only,but taken that it was capable of doing at least 112mph with an endurance of 3hrs it should have an endurance figure in the region of at least 300 miles.


I wonder if that is 155 miles outbound only. I think we have opened quite a can of worms. It may be time to actually look at the manual

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RE: Aircraft Ratings - 12/28/2011 11:59:00 AM   
kirk23


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Well if the game needs fixing we will have to do it ourselves because Matrix or the Designer are no longer interested!

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RE: Aircraft Ratings - 12/28/2011 12:14:58 PM   
tex


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Yes, they were only interested when your Uncle Graham started making too many changes by trying to create an Admirals Edition. I still think it was rather uncool of them to get in the way, especially when you consider that approximately 20 people actually play this game. Seems to me this is more abandon ware than anything else, and if it were not for the likes of you, this game would just fade away.

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RE: Aircraft Ratings - 12/28/2011 12:19:34 PM   
kirk23


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Well I'm trying to keep it alive and kicking,I prefer it to Admirals Edition anyway,much more basic and down to earth feel to it.

I'm going to take a look see if I can maybe add a few more aircraft types into the game what do you think,would you like to see more added?

< Message edited by kirk23 -- 12/28/2011 12:22:16 PM >


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RE: Aircraft Ratings - 12/29/2011 5:26:34 PM   
tex


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Hi Kirk,

Sorry for the late response, but I have been working on the aircraft ratings. I will send you what I come up with, but so far I am only calculating horrible things, some of which involve square roots

As for more aircraft, I would like to see the Fokker D-VII added. Graham had that in Dreadnoughts at War and it was great. There are also some planes that need to come out, for example the Sopwith Pup floatplane, which, as far as I can tell, never existed!

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RE: Aircraft Ratings - 12/29/2011 6:06:36 PM   
kirk23


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Hi Tex I have also been working on aircraft settings plus some more aircraft art,I will see what I can do about adding the Fokker D VII,I will email you my latest work later tonight.



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RE: Aircraft Ratings - 12/30/2011 9:06:15 AM   
kirk23


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Hi Tex Fokker D.VII landing at an airfield near you very soon,I have resized and cleaned up uncle Graham's ( HELLFIREJET ) art for the plane.




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RE: Aircraft Ratings - 12/30/2011 10:59:29 AM   
tex


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Looks great Kirk! As usual 

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RE: Aircraft Ratings - 12/30/2011 11:50:36 AM   
kirk23


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Tex you have mail enjoy

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RE: Aircraft Ratings - 12/31/2011 9:28:36 AM   
kirk23


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Ok Tex here is another new plane for the game Pfalz D.III




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RE: Aircraft Ratings - 12/31/2011 11:22:04 AM   
tex


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Wow, she´s a beauty! Now I must figure out her ratings...

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RE: Aircraft Ratings - 12/31/2011 11:43:29 AM   
kirk23


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Yes she is a beauty and here is the in game combat screen Top version.




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RE: Aircraft Ratings - 12/31/2011 3:18:16 PM   
kirk23


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Here is a screen shot off the Pfalz D.III in action




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RE: Aircraft Ratings - 12/31/2011 3:50:14 PM   
tex


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Wonderful! No mistaking what fighter that is. If anyone is interested, my maneuver/durability ratings are: Man: 26 Dur: 35

Great work Kirk!

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RE: Aircraft Ratings - 12/31/2011 7:19:50 PM   
kirk23


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Yes the Pfalz D.III is very striking and is in my favourite colour of royal blue I just love creating aircraft art,it allows me to be a little more colourful than when I do ships.

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RE: Aircraft Ratings - 1/3/2012 1:48:58 PM   
kirk23


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Tex do you have ratings for the Sopwith Dolphin ?

I have given it initial ratings off Maneuver = 37 Durability 25 !

< Message edited by kirk23 -- 1/3/2012 1:52:21 PM >


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RE: Aircraft Ratings - 1/3/2012 2:29:39 PM   
tex


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Hi Kirk, that is a bit low rating, I would go more with 38-29. By the way, the artwork is all excellent! The Jap Pup was really in need of a re-do, so I am very happy to see it. Just lovely!

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RE: Aircraft Ratings - 1/3/2012 2:50:46 PM   
kirk23


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Thanks Tex your ratings have been applied for the Dolphin!

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