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Crushed!! - 12/26/2011 11:25:30 AM   
demjansk

 

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I have to tell you, I just got beat by the darn computer and real beat down. I was playing the DLC scenario in 1940 where you have to capture the French General Giraud. Well, I went all the way to the west, captured the general and then French forces came out of the woodwork. I left everything empty.

Is it possible to win this one or did I go to far?
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RE: Crushed!! - 12/26/2011 12:07:18 PM   
terje439


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I had to try this one twice myself. The problem the first time around was that I did not really read the scenario briefing.
As soon as you take the target city, alot of French troops will spawn. So I took another look at it, and realized a few things.

1. Cities mean nothing in this game
2. The French will spawn within your lines
3. They attack in force.

So, I decided to empty the city with the general in it, but not capture it, just leave a tank units next to it. Then I started to make a defensive position east of the city. Next turn my tank took the city, and all other units were out of their trucks and ready to defend themselves.
After that, it was only a matter of getting the general to the extraction points, and try to rotate my units, so that if one of them had taken a beating, it would be pulled back and reinforced while the others defended.

Terje

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RE: Crushed!! - 12/27/2011 12:36:41 PM   
demjansk

 

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I got beat down on that scenario again but at least I progressed to the next scenario.

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RE: Crushed!! - 12/27/2011 4:14:32 PM   
Rood


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Like Terje wrote, you more or less need to have a defensive line before you capture the city with Giraud's HQ.

Obviously if you have played this scenario a few times then you know what to expect and can easily block the French forces.

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RE: Crushed!! - 1/15/2012 3:18:29 AM   
gdrover

 

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Same thing happened to me and I was so made I just posted about it elsewhere before seeing this thread. Here's my experience and 2 cents:

I was just playing (and thoroughly enjoying) Campaign '40 and I got to a scenario where I have to attack forward to a French HQ, capture a general and escort him back to a hex near where I started. I got 20 turns to do it. O.K.
There was a warning in th ebriefing that once I captured him, the French would counter-attack aggressively.

Well, things were going along well and I had captured most of the map and destroyed most of the French units...so my plan evloved to continue attacking the French troops near the edge of the map so that there would be fewer of them to counter-attack. I also set up a nice perimeter defense along a riverline with artillery behind my infantry which were guarding the cities/ crossing points.

So I proceed to capture the general and all hell breaks loose. Not only do many new French units attack from the edge of the board, but many new units show up all over the map and start attacking me from BEHIND!

I lost many great core units, especially artillery.

Now, I surely appreciate the design team trying to mix up the scenario types with some original offerings, but c'mon! How the heck did these units get there? Did they fly?

This is pretty annoying, not only was it COMPLETELY unrealistic, but now I just wasted an hour and a half and have to start the scenario over.
Really poor decision and/ or shows that the team never play tested the scenario.

Now I have to re-play the same scenario... not what I consider fun.

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RE: Crushed!! - 1/20/2012 9:26:58 PM   
demjansk

 

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Yes, that scenario is quite unrealistic to the max

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RE: Crushed!! - 1/20/2012 11:57:12 PM   
BASB


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My tactic was to fight a tactical withdrawal, In computer games its normally attack, attack, attack rarely do we need to think tactical withdrawal. the only game that comes to find that actually models this type of tactic is COTA from Panther, A fair amount was engineered into that game to do just that. It took me a couple goes at this scenario to do the opposite to what you normally do in the PC and PG series, attack! Basically attack, snatch and withdraw preserving your forces as best as possible.

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RE: Crushed!! - 1/21/2012 4:39:39 AM   
KerenskyLI


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BASB

My tactic was to fight a tactical withdrawal, In computer games its normally attack, attack, attack rarely do we need to think tactical withdrawal. the only game that comes to find that actually models this type of tactic is COTA from Panther, A fair amount was engineered into that game to do just that. It took me a couple goes at this scenario to do the opposite to what you normally do in the PC and PG series, attack! Basically attack, snatch and withdraw preserving your forces as best as possible.


Yea, this was definitely the intention of the scenario. Unfortunately it was clearly misunderstood, despite the warnings and explanations of the briefings, and thus was poorly received. So while the scenario itself won't change, we probably won't be making any more scenarios along these lines either.

< Message edited by KerenskyLI -- 1/21/2012 4:40:50 AM >


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RE: Crushed!! - 1/21/2012 5:43:42 AM   
Razz


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And that is exactly what I did to win the first time I played.

It is a very good scenario.

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RE: Crushed!! - 1/21/2012 5:52:10 AM   
terje439


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KerenskyLI
Yea, this was definitely the intention of the scenario. Unfortunately it was clearly misunderstood, despite the warnings and explanations of the briefings, and thus was poorly received. So while the scenario itself won't change, we probably won't be making any more scenarios along these lines either.


I think noone expected to see French units spawn out of thin air. Maybe it should have said something like;
"be warned though, there are rumors that routed French units are attempting to reform behind your lines" or something along those lines.


Terje

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RE: Crushed!! - 1/21/2012 7:09:36 AM   
KerenskyLI


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Well the problem is they don't actually appear out of thin air, people not conducting proper recon on their flanks only gives that illusion.  All the French reinforcements actually come from 'off board' or the edge hexes.

< Message edited by KerenskyLI -- 1/21/2012 7:10:32 AM >


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RE: Crushed!! - 1/21/2012 8:24:31 AM   
terje439


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KerenskyLI

Well the problem is they don't actually appear out of thin air, people not conducting proper recon on their flanks only gives that illusion.  All the French reinforcements actually come from 'off board' or the edge hexes.


Not all. The hills just east of the city with the general spawn French infantry units, that is smack in the middle of the map.

Terje

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RE: Crushed!! - 1/21/2012 10:36:37 AM   
KerenskyLI


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I had no idea 4 understrength, basic French infantry units could cause so much trouble.
Well at least there's that 'restart scenario' feature now.  ;)


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RE: Crushed!! - 1/21/2012 2:37:39 PM   
terje439


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KerenskyLI

I had no idea 4 understrength, basic French infantry units could cause so much trouble.
Well at least there's that 'restart scenario' feature now.  ;)



They spawned in my "arty" area, and if given the oppertunity, they will block the advance back across the river long enough for the units coming in from the north to start chewing you up

Terje

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RE: Crushed!! - 1/21/2012 4:08:21 PM   
James Ward

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: terje439


quote:

ORIGINAL: KerenskyLI

I had no idea 4 understrength, basic French infantry units could cause so much trouble.
Well at least there's that 'restart scenario' feature now.  ;)



They spawned in my "arty" area, and if given the oppertunity, they will block the advance back across the river long enough for the units coming in from the north to start chewing you up

Terje


After 2 turns the AI can start deploying next to cities it has re-captured so all those units didn't necessarily spawn out of thin air.

I thought this was one of the best scenarios in the game. It made me realize sometimes you just need to follow the orders given and not try to scarf up every VP hex you can.

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RE: Crushed!! - 1/21/2012 9:26:54 PM   
KerenskyLI


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quote:

ORIGINAL: James Ward

After 2 turns the AI can start deploying next to cities it has re-captured so all those units didn't necessarily spawn out of thin air.

I thought this was one of the best scenarios in the game. It made me realize sometimes you just need to follow the orders given and not try to scarf up every VP hex you can.


That's often the case with design that goes against the norm. Some people REALLY like it. Some people REALLY loathe it.

It's just too bad those who don't like it also don't realize they have many alternatives to avoid the problem they are having. Such as reading the briefing and only going for 4 VH to avoid the ambush event. Or taking the other campaign branch entirely. Or accepting loss as a function of war and continuing their game anyways. You talk about a lack of realism in a game when your ratio of "units killed" to "units lost"is something like 10:1 or even higher, it's rather silly and completely nullifies your arguments.

Alas, this is why we can't have nice things.

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RE: Crushed!! - 1/24/2012 11:06:04 PM   
J P Falcon

 

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After composing myself from seeing all of these enemy units pop up, like a pubescent teen's acne, I performed the most basic tried and true strategy I could devise....I ran like hell!!!.... Keeping Giraud encircled with a protective ring of Panzers and Infantry, I just high-tailed it back to a capture zone, with my fighters and Stukas helping in clearing a path. The capture zones are really not that far away when you are making a bee-line towards them. Those units that could not help in the mad dash I scattered about to draw the French away from the General...I lost 3 core units this way, but hey, you need to get your nose bloodied in this game...So I liked the scenario and would not want to see the developers discouraged from trying something like that again!

< Message edited by J P Falcon -- 1/25/2012 4:33:41 AM >

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RE: Crushed!! - 1/25/2012 11:15:16 PM   
demjansk

 

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yup, what happens if you wait until the last turn to capture the general?

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RE: Crushed!! - 1/26/2012 12:19:50 AM   
terje439


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quote:

ORIGINAL: demjansk

yup, what happens if you wait until the last turn to capture the general?


You need to extract him, so that would lead to a lost scenario

Terje

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RE: Crushed!! - 1/26/2012 1:42:47 AM   
J P Falcon

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: demjansk

yup, what happens if you wait until the last turn to capture the general?


Well you are not supposed to "wait" until the last turn to capture the General since it is stated in the breifing that you need to husband him back to one of the capture zone hexes. It's about a 4 turn journey back so you need to plan accordingly....and if circumstances do not allow you enough time, then you can still get a victory by holding onto objective hexes, which will be easier as long as you did not trigger the captured Giraud spawned units....

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