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RE: Panzer Vorwärts! MOD

 
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RE: Panzer Vorwärts! MOD - 2/3/2012 11:35:45 PM   
Choles1


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Never mind....found it!

< Message edited by Choles1 -- 2/3/2012 11:38:07 PM >

(in reply to TAIL_GUNNER)
Post #: 31
RE: Panzer Vorwärts! MOD - 2/6/2012 8:31:33 PM   
MechFO

 

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Just as a general comment, you will have to adjust Armament production as well to account for the 251/1 using vehicle production and the Pz Gren MG now using Armament points. You will also have to factor the extra swap of Infantry Squads...which is very expensive.

(in reply to Choles1)
Post #: 32
RE: Panzer Vorwärts! MOD - 2/7/2012 2:04:32 AM   
TAIL_GUNNER

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MechFO

Just as a general comment, you will have to adjust Armament production as well to account for the 251/1 using vehicle production and the Pz Gren MG now using Armament points. You will also have to factor the extra swap of Infantry Squads...which is very expensive.



I think the 251/1 is misrepresented within the stock game. It is a strength of 11 men, and 3 HMGs of which two are mounted.
This would suggest to me that it is supposed to represent an armored HMG section with 2 HMGs with 5 men per HMG. The 11th man is the leader of the section.
However, the TOEs do not treat it as such. The 41 Panzer Division has just one armored company of PanzerGrenadiers (9 squads). This should require only two armored HMG troops, so the allocation of the 251/1 should be just 1. However, in the game there are 4 designated in the TOE.
In 1942 the allocation per PanzerGrenadier company does indeed jump up to 4 HMGs (and thus a requirement of two 251/1s), but the stock 42a Panzer Division requirement is double this.
Rather than try to sort out that mess, I opted to make a unit that is created "on the fly" like the PanzerGrenadier squad. It has the same Build Cost as the original 251/1 so I don't forsee a problem unless I am overlooking something.

Regarding the infantry squad updates in 1942, yes, that was a mistake. I overlooked the huge Armament cost that would of caused. The next version will not have the 1942 update, so the Rifle Grenades will be back. It's a pity you have to scrap a whole squad's worth of weapons just to add one new weapon...but it is what it is.

Thanks for the comments,
ChadG

< Message edited by TAIL_GUNNER -- 2/7/2012 2:27:24 AM >

(in reply to MechFO)
Post #: 33
RE: Panzer Vorwärts! MOD - 2/7/2012 3:32:51 PM   
MechFO

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TAIL_GUNNER

quote:

ORIGINAL: MechFO

Just as a general comment, you will have to adjust Armament production as well to account for the 251/1 using vehicle production and the Pz Gren MG now using Armament points. You will also have to factor the extra swap of Infantry Squads...which is very expensive.



I think the 251/1 is misrepresented within the stock game. It is a strength of 11 men, and 3 HMGs of which two are mounted.
This would suggest to me that it is supposed to represent an armored HMG section with 2 HMGs with 5 men per HMG. The 11th man is the leader of the section.
However, the TOEs do not treat it as such. The 41 Panzer Division has just one armored company of PanzerGrenadiers (9 squads). This should require only two armored HMG troops, so the allocation of the 251/1 should be just 1. However, in the game there are 4 designated in the TOE.
In 1942 the allocation per PanzerGrenadier company does indeed jump up to 4 HMGs (and thus a requirement of two 251/1s), but the stock 42a Panzer Division requirement is double this.
Rather than try to sort out that mess, I opted to make a unit that is created "on the fly" like the PanzerGrenadier squad. It has the same Build Cost as the original 251/1 so I don't forsee a problem unless I am overlooking something.

Regarding the infantry squad updates in 1942, yes, that was a mistake. I overlooked the huge Armament cost that would of caused. The next version will not have the 1942 update, so the Rifle Grenades will be back. It's a pity you have to scrap a whole squad's worth of weapons just to add one new weapon...but it is what it is.

Thanks for the comments,
ChadG


What you are overlooking is that vehicles use supply for production, not armament points.

Good point about the 251/1's...I never noticed that they had that many men in them. I always thought they were supposed to represent the platoon leader/company cmdr HT's which otherwise are not represented in the game, though for that they have at least 1 MG too many.

If you are scrapping the update I would also think about adding back 1-2 MPi. There were too many for 41, but during 42 their allocation steadily increased.

EDIT: Another good ideas is to give the German Inf Divs their proper Artillery TOE from 42 onward. Right now they are missing a quarter.

< Message edited by MechFO -- 2/7/2012 7:26:10 PM >

(in reply to TAIL_GUNNER)
Post #: 34
RE: Panzer Vorwärts! MOD - 2/8/2012 5:19:20 AM   
TAIL_GUNNER

 

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quote:

What you are overlooking is that vehicles use supply for production, not armament points.

I guess it's a trade off. But personally I'd rather burn the armaments than having hundreds of 251/1s wasting away in the pool.

quote:

Good point about the 251/1's...I never noticed that they had that many men in them. I always thought they were supposed to represent the platoon leader/company cmdr HT's which otherwise are not represented in the game, though for that they have at least 1 MG too many.

I'm just guessing what they're supposed to represent. But I was wrong before...two HMG groups of five men each, plus one driver for the 251 equals 11 for the whole section. Now that the unit is a non-vehicle, I added other weapons for the troops. I think it's 5 Kar98K, 4 Pistols, 2 MPi, 2 MG34 LMGs, and one swivel-mount MG34.

quote:

If you are scrapping the update I would also think about adding back 1-2 MPi. There were too many for 41, but during 42 their allocation steadily increased.

There was usually an extra MPi stowed on the SPWs....I'll include those for the armored troops at the least.

quote:

EDIT: Another good ideas is to give the German Inf Divs their proper Artillery TOE from 42 onward. Right now they are missing a quarter.

yeah, they did this to the Panzer Divisions also...I forget which TOE..

But der Infanterie-Einheiten must wait...

(in reply to MechFO)
Post #: 35
RE: Panzer Vorwärts! MOD - 2/11/2012 9:33:11 PM   
MechFO

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TAIL_GUNNER

quote:

If you are scrapping the update I would also think about adding back 1-2 MPi. There were too many for 41, but during 42 their allocation steadily increased.

There was usually an extra MPi stowed on the SPWs....I'll include those for the armored troops at the least.



Going through readiness reports it seems there were a lot of MPi's in mid-late war Divisions, so the allocation should increase with time.

http://forum.panzer-archiv.de/viewtopic.php?p=187084

http://www.forum-der-wehrmacht.de/thread.php?threadid=8099&threadview=0&hilight=&hilightuser=0&page=1

(in reply to TAIL_GUNNER)
Post #: 36
RE: Panzer Vorwärts! MOD - 4/13/2012 12:35:53 AM   
kg_1007

 

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I have played around some with this mod. As you said, this game is great for "tinkerers" and I love that aspect, as much , sometimes more, than actually playing.
I have a question regarding something you brought up early on in this thread, the attachable panzer regiments.
I loved the idea, and have played with it some, but it seems that in most tests I am doing, the panzer divisions created as a division, plus an attached panzer regiment, for the most part seem to be losing MP as the game wears along into late summer '41...while same divisions, but all entire as one piece, for the most part keep 50MP...so I am curious if you have seen results like this, and if perhaps something about the attached regiment ends up raisign fatigue so high to cost movement points(that is the main culprit I see thus far, is the "combined" divisions are showing more fatigue, even simply from moving, than the "original" divisions, even if the "original" divisions have been in action more.

By the way..GREAT mod.

(in reply to TAIL_GUNNER)
Post #: 37
RE: Panzer Vorwärts! MOD - 4/13/2012 3:30:17 AM   
TAIL_GUNNER

 

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Joined: 6/14/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kg_1007

I have played around some with this mod. As you said, this game is great for "tinkerers" and I love that aspect, as much , sometimes more, than actually playing.
I have a question regarding something you brought up early on in this thread, the attachable panzer regiments.
I loved the idea, and have played with it some, but it seems that in most tests I am doing, the panzer divisions created as a division, plus an attached panzer regiment, for the most part seem to be losing MP as the game wears along into late summer '41...while same divisions, but all entire as one piece, for the most part keep 50MP...so I am curious if you have seen results like this, and if perhaps something about the attached regiment ends up raisign fatigue so high to cost movement points(that is the main culprit I see thus far, is the "combined" divisions are showing more fatigue, even simply from moving, than the "original" divisions, even if the "original" divisions have been in action more.

By the way..GREAT mod.


That's strange. I have not tested it yet though, but my experiences have shown that the unmodified Panzer Divisions struggle to maintain even 35-40MPs after the first few turns.

I have not played or tinkered in quite awhile...got sidetracked with Steel Panthers.

I'll get back into this soon though....

Thanks,
ChadG

(in reply to kg_1007)
Post #: 38
RE: Panzer Vorwärts! MOD - 4/13/2012 2:15:35 PM   
kg_1007

 

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Thank you Chad!
Steel Panthers is a great game too, easy to get sidetracked with it!

(in reply to TAIL_GUNNER)
Post #: 39
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