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never again - 12/24/2011 5:01:37 PM   
bairdlander

 

Posts: 1376
Joined: 3/28/2009
Status: offline 		Matrix publishes a lot of good titles covering small unit tactics and good titles that cover fronts like WitE,Decisive Campaigns,but as far as this title ToF grand strategy covering diplomacy,research and production they fail big time.I realley like the look of the game,Im sure a lot was put into it and it has potential to be great and I have tried and tried to enjoy it,but I give up.Charging the price they did for this is highway robbery.Never again.Just an opinion,please dont jump and attack me as I am entitled to my opinion.

< Message edited by bairdlander -- 12/24/2011 5:25:12 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: never again - 12/24/2011 5:09:03 PM   
rogo727


Posts: 920
Joined: 7/12/2011
From: Iowa
Status: online 		Are you talking about just this game? Or all games? It's unclear how you stated your statement. As for this game it's just what I'm looking for, I am having a great time with it. Is it perfect? No. But I am happy.
quote:

ORIGINAL: bairdlander

Matrix publishes a lot of good titles covering small unit tactics and good titles that cover fronts like WitE,Decisive Campaigns,but as far as grand strategy covering diplomacy,research and production they fail big time.I realley like the look of the game,Im sure a lot was put into it and it has potential to be great and I have tried and tried to enjoy it,but I give up.Charging the price they did for this is highway robbery.Never again.Just an opinion,please dont jump and attack me as I am entitled to my opinion.


(in reply to bairdlander)
Post #: 2
RE: never again - 12/24/2011 5:21:41 PM   
bairdlander

 

Posts: 1376
Joined: 3/28/2009
Status: offline 		Yes I am talking about ToF,what is unclear?

(in reply to rogo727)
Post #: 3
RE: never again - 12/24/2011 5:39:58 PM   
Razz


Posts: 2499
Joined: 10/21/2007
From: CaLiForNia
Status: offline 		It's clear you are comparing it to War in The East.

Two different games.

Perhaps you don't understand the game mechanics completely.

By the way.. what do you think of Panzer Corps?

< Message edited by Razz -- 12/24/2011 5:42:16 PM >

(in reply to bairdlander)
Post #: 4
RE: never again - 12/24/2011 6:51:22 PM   
bairdlander

 

Posts: 1376
Joined: 3/28/2009
Status: offline 		I have read manuel,I have read every post here and am trying to like game,but dont.What does my opinion of Panzer Corps have to do with anything?To me the term "grand strategy" covers diplomacy,techs,economy,production.Its in ToF but very poorly executed.I find HOI 3 less confusing.

(in reply to Razz)
Post #: 5
RE: never again - 12/24/2011 7:07:16 PM   
Razz


Posts: 2499
Joined: 10/21/2007
From: CaLiForNia
Status: offline 		Actually all those things are implemented the same except trade in economy.

Click on research and choose. Same.
Click on production, choose what unit you want to buy. Same.
Click on country and perform diplomacy. Same.
HOI 3 was poorly executed and took over a year just fix somethings like AI production.

(in reply to bairdlander)
Post #: 6
RE: never again - 12/24/2011 7:10:11 PM   
rogo727


Posts: 920
Joined: 7/12/2011
From: Iowa
Status: online 		Then go play hoi......
quote:

ORIGINAL: bairdlander

I have read manuel,I have read every post here and am trying to like game,but dont.What does my opinion of Panzer Corps have to do with anything?To me the term "grand strategy" covers diplomacy,techs,economy,production.Its in ToF but very poorly executed.I find HOI 3 less confusing.


(in reply to bairdlander)
Post #: 7
RE: never again - 12/24/2011 7:13:12 PM   
slaytanic

 

Posts: 64
Joined: 12/14/2011
Status: offline 		You like Wite but this is too confusing? If anything, the entire model is slightly too simplified and abstracted. It's for more casual gamers. I find it a perfect balance between too hardcore & too simple.

(in reply to bairdlander)
Post #: 8
RE: never again - 12/24/2011 7:18:01 PM   
rogo727


Posts: 920
Joined: 7/12/2011
From: Iowa
Status: online 		Well said lol!
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaytanic

You like Wite but this is too confusing? If anything, the entire model is slightly too simplified and abstracted. It's for more casual gamers. I find it a perfect balance between too hardcore & too simple.


(in reply to slaytanic)
Post #: 9
RE: never again - 12/24/2011 7:20:28 PM   
bairdlander

 

Posts: 1376
Joined: 3/28/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

Then go play hoi......
quote:

ORIGINAL: bairdlander

I have read manuel,I have read every post here and am trying to like game,but dont.What does my opinion of Panzer Corps have to do with anything?To me the term "grand strategy" covers diplomacy,techs,economy,production.Its in ToF but very poorly executed.I find HOI 3 less confusing.



Ahhh,the attacks begin,thanks a lot,just because my opinion differs from yours you dont have to be a smart a**

(in reply to rogo727)
Post #: 10
RE: never again - 12/24/2011 7:27:58 PM   
rogo727


Posts: 920
Joined: 7/12/2011
From: Iowa
Status: online 		It was just a suggestion not an attack on you. To tell you the truth if I had to micro manage diplomacy and production of every unit and country I wouldn't play this game. It's easy and fun and I can do a single turn in under five minutes. Some other war games turns take an hour are so a big turn off for me. But for people who lead busy schedules these games are perfect for us.

(in reply to bairdlander)
Post #: 11
RE: never again - 12/24/2011 7:31:40 PM   
rogo727


Posts: 920
Joined: 7/12/2011
From: Iowa
Status: online 		I did notice that you edited your original statement to include the TOF, makes more sense now.
quote:

ORIGINAL: bairdlander

Yes I am talking about ToF,what is unclear?


(in reply to bairdlander)
Post #: 12
RE: never again - 12/24/2011 7:43:14 PM   
comsolut

 

Posts: 255
Joined: 5/30/2004
Status: offline 		No attack intended. But there is much to like with this game. I played the Barbarossa Campaign as Russia and had a lot of fun. Very tight campaign into 1942. Abstract yes, but it did a good job of creating the feeling of can I hold on in 1941. In 1942 it shifted south and was at the gates of Stalingrad.

It is a fact of life that many games need play balance adjustments (WITE is a Prime example) and yes some AI adjustments and some UI and other tweaks as more players experience the game and offer suggestions.

I have almost always been pleased that Matrix gives good support and continues to support it's titles for a year or more. I personally like the game as it is now and look forward to it getting even better as the developer refines their project.

(in reply to rogo727)
Post #: 13
RE: never again - 12/24/2011 8:02:00 PM   
bairdlander

 

Posts: 1376
Joined: 3/28/2009
Status: offline 		Well Im still trying to make sense of the UI and other aspects.But I do feel it was way overpriced and I hope the devs use the money to improve the game wiith free patches not chargable "exspansions" like PI does,thats the way I look at it.

(in reply to comsolut)
Post #: 14
RE: never again - 12/24/2011 8:15:29 PM   
doomtrader


Posts: 5237
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Poland
Status: offline 		bairdlander,
Thanks for your opinion, of course you have got the right for it.

Maybe you are trying to get into the details too deep at the beginning.
My advice is: run the Barbarossa Campaign as Germans or Soviets and try to defeat the main enemy. Don't care about the details with your first game. Just move the units forward.

I think that the price is pretty standard for the genre, and please keep in mind that the owners of previous titles are getting 30% discount.

And yes, we are planning to support and improve the game with free patches.

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(in reply to bairdlander)
Post #: 15
RE: never again - 12/24/2011 8:33:20 PM   
stone10


Posts: 239
Joined: 9/20/2008
Status: offline 		I think every game from Matrix & Slitherine is overpriced.  You have to believe it worth the money. 

(in reply to doomtrader)
Post #: 16
RE: never again - 12/24/2011 10:16:14 PM   
freeboy

 

Posts: 8330
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline 		well I have to dissagree.. look at the amount of time you get, two full campeigns against the ai.. you are already at pennies, US Dollar, to the hour.
but if you want cheap stuff, look at steam, buy stuff on sale .. games do not come out of thin air, and as frugile as I am, trust me I'm tight, spending money on games gets you a game,as  well as puts money into the hands of those who help us get them, developers and designers..
so, while of course b and whine to your hearts content, but this game is a jewel for beer and pretzel (lite) and actually a good platform for h2h, although I want to choose my own events decisions!!!

< Message edited by freeboy -- 12/24/2011 11:00:18 PM >

(in reply to stone10)
Post #: 17
RE: never again - 12/24/2011 10:55:26 PM   
aspqrz

 

Posts: 597
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bairdlander

I have read manuel,I have read every post here and am trying to like game,but dont.What does my opinion of Panzer Corps have to do with anything?To me the term "grand strategy" covers diplomacy,techs,economy,production.Its in ToF but very poorly executed.I find HOI 3 less confusing.


But HoI 3 is, apart from Paradox fanboys, acknowledged to be a crock of soft brown stuff with about as much representation of anything real as candy floss has to real food.

Seriously!

Phil

(in reply to bairdlander)
Post #: 18
RE: never again - 12/24/2011 11:07:56 PM   
freeboy

 

Posts: 8330
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline 		not truly sure what you want... lite fun game, super complex game?
I play veried amounts of brain deadening super anal games, AE etc, where the hardest part is making sure fuel flows and tf are formed.. much harder for me, as a big picture person, to do than the actually combat oriented bomb this invade here type choices.. which is exactly why I like TOF, its simply and has both strategic and tactical realms, plan ahead with purchases and research asw sub war air war strategic bombing.. blitz develope better troops.. its all there.. and no two countries play the same, even inside alliences.. that generic stuff is gone with each coun try having their own flavor of troops..
For examplein my pbserver game as axis, Italy is producing fighters and tactical bombers and defending france and attacking english shipping in Med, the troops are in a support role, as they are much fewer and weaker than Germans and Red army, so I use them behing the lines agains partisans.. etc..inFrance ..
German strength is in the army.. so I produce lots of Inf corps and tank units.. to offset the amount of Red army troops I invest in research to boost quality and plan the beat down of theReds.. trust me they are a serious threat...
When the US comes in they will eventually have great amounts to spend... but where.. better planes? other..
these chooices make this simple grand strategy a "gem" in  my eyes.. not perfect but its barely released and certainly patches will help add to its luster...

(in reply to aspqrz)
Post #: 19
RE: never again - 12/24/2011 11:32:19 PM   
BASB


Posts: 1178
Joined: 2/14/2005
Status: offline 		Merry Christmas all, This game has its limitations, but it slots into the space of of being simple and straight forward. It is certainly simpler than most strategic type games, at the end of the day no game is exactly the same or why would we bother having any more than 2 or 3 games. comparisons are often unfair. I like this game because its relatively fast paced. Diplomacy and research are simple and straight forward, which enables you spend more time in "playing the war," the supply part of the game a little weak and confusing like most war games, (Oh only if I could find a game that modelled a decent approach to supply, Panther Games comes the closest to real thing) Doom I'm happy to give an opinion on supply if you like. One of the real strengths of this game is the ability to play more than one side at any given time, in other words control your dumb allies and keep them out of the way. There lots pros and a few cons, but a very enjoyable and simple game, which I'm sure will improve along the way.

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(in reply to freeboy)
Post #: 20
RE: never again - 12/25/2011 1:43:13 AM   
bairdlander

 

Posts: 1376
Joined: 3/28/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aspqrz


quote:

ORIGINAL: bairdlander

I have read manuel,I have read every post here and am trying to like game,but dont.What does my opinion of Panzer Corps have to do with anything?To me the term "grand strategy" covers diplomacy,techs,economy,production.Its in ToF but very poorly executed.I find HOI 3 less confusing.


But HoI 3 is, apart from Paradox fanboys, acknowledged to be a crock of soft brown stuff with about as much representation of anything real as candy floss has to real food.

Seriously!

Phil

What an intelligent thoughtful statement.You are quite a debater.Is that the BEST you could come up with? Why don't you take PLENTY of time, and come back with something that is actually worthy of a response.

(in reply to aspqrz)
Post #: 21
RE: never again - 12/25/2011 1:43:15 AM   
rosseau

 

Posts: 801
Joined: 9/13/2009
Status: offline 		The ability to control more than one side is a great strength. You can also easily mod your life away with the game. Anyone can do it. I do think the naval portion might need a little work, but was happy with my $30 discount. Actually, I'm not done playing WWII ToW yet anyway. Give it some time and some patches. I absolutely hated CEAW but with Grand Strategy 2.0 it is now good.

(in reply to BASB)
Post #: 22
RE: never again - 12/25/2011 2:13:35 AM   
bairdlander

 

Posts: 1376
Joined: 3/28/2009
Status: offline 		I guess im not used to the abstraction aspect.I did take Doomtrader's advice and started GC Barbarossa and its not bad.

(in reply to rosseau)
Post #: 23
RE: never again - 12/25/2011 2:46:02 AM   
rogo727


Posts: 920
Joined: 7/12/2011
From: Iowa
Status: online 		I hope you enjoy the game. If not I hope you stay with the game it's not perfect but it will get better. Have a great Christmas ! Where are you from?

quote:

ORIGINAL: bairdlander

I guess im not used to the abstraction aspect.I did take Doomtrader's advice and started GC Barbarossa and its not bad.


(in reply to bairdlander)
Post #: 24
RE: never again - 12/25/2011 8:04:10 AM   
aspqrz

 

Posts: 597
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bairdlander


quote:

ORIGINAL: aspqrz


quote:

ORIGINAL: bairdlander

I have read manuel,I have read every post here and am trying to like game,but dont.What does my opinion of Panzer Corps have to do with anything?To me the term "grand strategy" covers diplomacy,techs,economy,production.Its in ToF but very poorly executed.I find HOI 3 less confusing.


But HoI 3 is, apart from Paradox fanboys, acknowledged to be a crock of soft brown stuff with about as much representation of anything real as candy floss has to real food.

Seriously!

Phil

What an intelligent thoughtful statement.You are quite a debater.Is that the BEST you could come up with? Why don't you take PLENTY of time, and come back with something that is actually worthy of a response.


Seriously?

You obviously don't understand emoticons ... like, for example ...



... seriously!



Phil

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(in reply to bairdlander)
Post #: 25
RE: never again - 12/25/2011 7:27:28 PM   
freeboy

 

Posts: 8330
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline
guess what I mean and win

(in reply to aspqrz)
Post #: 26
RE: never again - 2/19/2012 12:58:21 AM   
JLPOWELL


Posts: 371
Joined: 5/5/2011
From: Pacific Time Zone
Status: offline 		I am likely one of the most critical of the game with my posts, mostly because it has really great potential and a bit of room for improvement(if I didn't think so I wouldn't bother to post). I ABSOLUTELY got my "money's worth" out of this game and have recommended it to others. Sure there is room for improvement but the cool thing about Wasteland is they actually listen and (sometimes) make adjustments. Opinions will vary and you certainly can't please everyone, but there is bad and just not what you like. Some games are just bad but others are just not the 'right' flavor. For me Time of Wrath for example was the 'right flavor' but just not well enough executed to satisfy me. ToF which as far as I can tell is more an extensively cleaned up ToW than a new game does work for me. The caviet is that my expectation is not a detailed realistic game like World in Flames (still under development) but a casual playable game.

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Post #: 27
RE: never again - 2/19/2012 3:25:18 AM   
jjdenver

 

Posts: 1210
Joined: 11/2/2007
Status: offline 		I'm also critical of the game. Naval interface too fiddly, lots of extremely ahistorical game breaking problems.......... But I think u have to admit it has potential if the developers will only keep patching it for awhile. Not fair to say its a failure.

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Post #: 28
RE: never again - 2/19/2012 4:22:03 AM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 5747
Joined: 9/9/2009
Status: offline 		It's a fun game, but I also suspend disbelief when I play it. I consider it a casual wargame and don't sweat the details for it too much. My expectations for it aren't the same as for, say, War in the East.



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Post #: 29
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