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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Time of Fury >> First Game Thoughts

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First Game Thoughts - 12/22/2011 5:32:06 AM

battlevonwar

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Alright let me introduce myself, I'm avid war gamer over 20 years. These are my first impressions and insights into Time Of Fury. Take with a grain of salt, but there may be some room to take advice or educate me on the game.

1. Started Axis Grand.. Invaded Poland with less than 5k losses to self. Too easy, and the worst damage was done to my air units. In retrospect I may not have even used the Tac Bombers due to the extreme cost to reinforce them. The fact is I only need to encircle Warsaw and not really fight the Poles. I can do that in record time... Thus that leads me to the West in 1939:

I invade Denmark, auto-surrender as history would is historical. Then I have some issues figuring out which Norwegian cities are needed and how to purchase Amphib points and properly use and unload from several movements to get Norway down. Hardest eggshell to crack so far.

I start the Battle of the Atlantic, sink 1 ship the whole game, nearly all the way into fall of 1940, never see another fleet action involving my u-boats again, no matter where, how, how much I maneuver them. This point of the game needs some serious attention if this is the usual result. My Surface Raiders, same enchilada, no matter where on the map I put them. I get a few Hit Points on Allied ships here or there but these are not important pieces, in fact I do not see the reason for a Navy as the Axis at all. Unless someone can point how where they may protect amphibs/transports/Convoys?

I invade France in 1939, with penalty, lose 4 corps and destroy the entire RAF by June of 1940. I did a poor job IMHO. The TAC Bombers played a slightly bigger role with the entrenchment in cities, but I shouldn't have used them as much again, too expensive to replace. My worst enemy all game was the Allied Bombers, they kill more of my ground troops than the Allied Ground Attacks. Plus I never seem to intercept them. So I go after the RAF....though I didn't go with the Sea Lion Option,

I invade Britain and the USSR in by Fall of 1940 and I am winning the game at the same time, in fact. The Royal Navy never gathers to fight my Amphib units, plus my Tac Bombers shred the entire Royal Navy in the North Atlantic. Costly, but the job is done. The UK seems to focus off to sideshows a little too much like Norway or the Med. I am in complete control of the North Sea as Germany with Naval Supremacy with little or no stress to my own, in fact no 1 naval loss...

So my question is, how do you sink Transport Units? How do you engage other naval units? I never seem to worry about that, I post my Naval Units to protect, they seem pretty impervious to damage unless being attacked by air. Which the Allies didn't manage to figure it out in my game.

Alright, I like the game. I am ready for a living human opponent. This is my first actual game too and I read no manuals and learned as I went along. The only downside is I'd like an editor and a little more Navy Refinements. One of the most detailed and fun ETO Strategy Games in current Release.

Anyone else share my sentiments.

Post #: 1

RE: First Game Thoughts - 12/22/2011 5:56:21 AM

aspqrz

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I find the exact opposite as the Allied player ... the combined British and French navies cannot ... CANNOT ... prevent, or even sight, German surface raiders from leaving their ports IN THE FACE OF A BLOCKADE, even if I have the entire British and French Fleets allocated to such.

Likewise, German Surface Raiders ALWAYS know where allied convoys are travelling and ALWAYS target their track ... and, even if I have the entire RN and Republican Marine in the same area, I rarely get even a sighting, let alone an attack ... and they STILL ravage the convoys AT WILL AND WITH NO ADVERSE EFFECT.

NONE.

Then there's convoys ... what is it with the Brit AI FORCING the creation of convoys from British Colonies to Scapa Flow ... or London ... both of which are the most vulnerable ports for the automatically generated convoy routes, given that Gernman Subs and Raiders automatically track and automatically successfully attack them ... why not choose Southhampton, Liverpool, Plymouth or Belfast ... which is what I do, automatically?

Seems to me the Naval segment of the game is seriously broken.

If an Editor was available, it *might* help to give the RN a +1, possibly a +2 Naval Level advantage over the Germans AND also give their fleet units 60%, probably 80% for a significant chunk of them, for experience.

Also, the 1% repair = -1% experience model is, I feel, also seriously broken ... doesn't model reality at all. It would be more likely that for units that suffer no more than, say, 20% losses, rebuilding involves no experience loss at all, and for those that suffer up to 50% losses, a loss of 1% per 2-3% rebuilt. Only for units which have been reduced to less than 50% of strength should there be even a chance of a 1:1 experience loss:rebuild percentage loss.

It also *seems* (I'm less certain about this) that the air combat model is overly vicious. Maybe it is WAD, but it seems to me that, again, the Germans find Allied Fighter, Bomber and TacAir units on the ground *unerringly* and yet the allies never, ever, find them ... maybe this is simply because no allied automatic air attacks are ever reported, which is strange, as all the German ones are.

Also, in the Goetterdaemmerung Scenario it seems to me that the Axis allies are *far* too strong ... for example, the Hungarians have a 16-8 Armoured CORPS ... now, yes, the Hungarians did have their own tank production facilities and did have their own armoured units, but to have them equivalent to a German Panzer Corps, nope. Not even close. I suspect that no Axis ally should start any scenario with anything other than Divisional level units, representing their poorer command and control abilities and generally poorer equipment levels.

Likewise, the airforce of the Italian Social Republic (Mussolini) seems to be an uber-CAP in Italy ... automatic interception of every allied TacAir attack every turn, always causing much more damage than it seems to take.

Overall, I suspect that the scenarios are designed with no units having any experience, even if, reasonably, they should have ... or that the severe rebuild/experience loss rules mean that units are soon so green they probably shoot each other and make enemy attacks unneccessary ;-)

That's what I have noted so far that seems *really* *obviously* wrong.

YMMV

Phil McGregor

< Message edited by aspqrz -- 12/22/2011 5:58:37 AM >

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(in reply to battlevonwar)

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RE: First Game Thoughts - 12/22/2011 6:47:42 AM

Numdydar

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I have been complaining about the naval model ever since I invaded England in my game. Had the exact same issues as the OP. You can check out the England is Mine thread for more details.

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RE: First Game Thoughts - 12/22/2011 7:21:07 AM

battlevonwar

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Interesting, seems that I will have to give the Allies a test drive. Although I fear the issue is with the AI, it looks as though the real challenge here will be human vs human. My Axis Convoys failed maybe once the entire game. I had a British Sub active much of the game in the Baltic. After I run the United Kingdom a few turns I'll return here and report my experience.

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RE: First Game Thoughts - 12/22/2011 7:35:53 AM

aspqrz

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Indeed. I read it with interest. Didn't believe it till I'd played a couple pf 20+ turn campaign games to get a feel for things.

Now I do

Phil

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RE: First Game Thoughts - 12/22/2011 2:00:57 PM

rogo727

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For a real challange try playing on hard to very hard and the AI on very easy. I find it kind of amusing when I read how people invade france in 1939 England and Russia in 1940 and win the the game in 1941. Don't get me wrong it's your game and you can play however you want. To me Sea Lion was never really an option for the Germans anyway, their navy was two small.

quote:

ORIGINAL: battlevonwar

Interesting, seems that I will have to give the Allies a test drive. Although I fear the issue is with the AI, it looks as though the real challenge here will be human vs human. My Axis Convoys failed maybe once the entire game. I had a British Sub active much of the game in the Baltic. After I run the United Kingdom a few turns I'll return here and report my experience.

(in reply to battlevonwar)

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RE: First Game Thoughts - 12/22/2011 4:05:59 PM

Numdydar

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That is the whole point of trying it in the game, to see if it was modeled correctly. Difficulty levels have nothing to do with the absence of the British navy from the channel.

I agree that it should have been much much tougher that what I experienced. In other games like this (such as WiE) I have been able to get ashore, with major losses to the navy, but then the troops got killed off, due to the inability to keep them supplied. This is what I expected in this game.

Of course if the entire British navy is absent and when they do show up they come piecemeal, transport and supply is not much of an issue, lol.

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RE: First Game Thoughts - 12/22/2011 4:38:25 PM

rogo727

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I guess I would have to disagree with you on the issue of the British navy not being there in channel and the fact of what level you are playing on. I think you said you are playing on normal and correct me if I am wrong but do you have the allies set on hard to very hard? In My games that I have played so far the English fleet as well as the French fleet bombard my units every turn when I invade France. I have yet to play this game on easy levels so I will take your word for you say. I simply do not have the resources for Sea Lion but my garrison units on every turn get bombarded, and my air recon tells me that there are several task forces near England. I think when the AI is set to very easy or easy it acts totally different when it is set to hard or very hard.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

That is the whole point of trying it in the game, to see if it was modeled correctly. Difficulty levels have nothing to do with the absence of the British navy from the channel.

I agree that it should have been much much tougher that what I experienced. In other games like this (such as WiE) I have been able to get ashore, with major losses to the navy, but then the troops got killed off, due to the inability to keep them supplied. This is what I expected in this game.

Of course if the entire British navy is absent and when they do show up they come piecemeal, transport and supply is not much of an issue, lol.

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RE: First Game Thoughts - 12/22/2011 4:48:51 PM

willgamer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

I think when the AI is set to very easy or easy it acts totally different when it is set to hard or very hard.

Is this correct- if you want a harder gamer, you set your country's settings to harder, and the AI country's settings to easier?

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RE: First Game Thoughts - 12/22/2011 4:59:38 PM

rogo727

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Yes. The AI set to easy has a 25% bump in resources and a 50% bump at very easy. So when players start playing the Axis at very easy and the allies to very hard which is a -50% decrease in resources they are able to march in France in 1939 and take England in 1940 and invade Russia in 1940 and be in Moscow in 1941....If you play on hard to very hard it is my experience that you get a real feel of how the Germans really must have felt.

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RE: First Game Thoughts - 12/22/2011 8:01:04 PM

Numdydar

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To be clear I am playing with everything normal.

And yes while I was invading France there were a lot of French and British ships sailing around in the channel. However once France fell, within a few turns, all the Brits sailed off. As I kept sending my fleets/planes off looking for them without finding any significent naval forces, I decided to go for Sea Lion. This was made even easier due to the fact that I could build Amphs instantly. So I spent three weeks building enough Amphs to invade with three CORPS (2 Inf and 1 Arm. Eisenhower would be so jealous, lol) and off I went. Captured Southamppton on the turn after I landed and the conquest of Britan was on the way.

I still do not see how the difficulty level would have effected all of this. It may have taken me 4-5 weeks to build Amphs versus 3. Big deal. The level of difficulty has no impact on the British fleet allowing this to occur. Even if more troops and/or ships were built by the British, the ships still would not be around England. More troops would meant I would have had to send more troops to England. So the conquest would have taken me longer. Again no impact on the fact that I can have three convoys sailing around Britian without ever being impacted.

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RE: First Game Thoughts - 12/22/2011 8:26:10 PM

rogo727

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ooops

< Message edited by rogo727 -- 12/22/2011 8:35:43 PM >

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RE: First Game Thoughts - 12/23/2011 1:19:53 AM

battlevonwar

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I put everything on normal for my first game. I didn't think it would matter as I had to learn the game functions. I did not read where the AI is more aggressive due to any setting :: pouts ::

I tore the British navy in two with my Tactical Bombers before launching Sea Lion, though it didn't seem to know what to do with itself, ships were sitting in North Sea Sea Zones and Atlantic Sea Zones doing nothing while I unloaded 5-6-7 transports on English Soil and could've brought half my Army likely. It was possible historically I think, with some losses. The problem is how many losses could the Germans accept. 1 ship goes down with several thousand crack elite fighting men, 2, 3...That's half the invasion force... and the Germans used converted ships a lot, just read the events. The British Navy was the Kingpin of the seas!

My Tactical Bombers took out about 10-15 ships, I will post it up here, most of them not in the English Channel. I put the entire Kriegsmarine on engage in the Channel and lost 0 ships the whole game. I find that funny, where are the ship on ship battles?

I think that needs major tweaking, though I'll have to play several games to say for sure, after a year of combat no real sea battles, hmmm... the Italian AI seemed to do plenty of naval battles.

Still practicing my Allied side, so far my convoys are in perfect shape, no interceptions by U-boats. Not far in though :)

< Message edited by battlevonwar -- 12/23/2011 1:22:11 AM >

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RE: First Game Thoughts - 12/23/2011 1:23:59 AM

doomtrader

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Naval battles are turned to be autoresolved by default.

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RE: First Game Thoughts - 12/23/2011 1:52:09 AM

battlevonwar

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Yes, I noticed. You have settings to, engage, regular or raider. I double checked the Losses for convoys, seems I didn't even get to see the amount of damage I was doing, I had over 30 engagements and did some damage to British Shipping. Though this doesn't pop up for turn summary. So much to learn!

Italy had over 140 incidences though as raiders.

And I still never lost a Ship! Took out half a Navy and never lost a ship, never had a ship on ship engagement and I reign supreme in the Channel. :P

P.S. This is actually just partially off, Air Power was my Key. Also Historically as we saw in Taranto and Pearl, the Might of air power was fairly unstoppable. Still would like to see a few ship on ship engagements too for fun :P

here is an image of my Sea Lion, was pretty fun:

< Message edited by battlevonwar -- 12/23/2011 2:19:17 AM >

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RE: First Game Thoughts - 12/23/2011 2:46:40 AM

rogo727

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I think the AI has more units to work with when they are set to very easy. I am never able to destroy the British air force when I play on very hard, also I noticed in my game that the UK sends one to two units to land in france every other turn. Is this normal?

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RE: First Game Thoughts - 12/23/2011 3:11:49 AM

battlevonwar

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Rogo, not sure why you aren't able to destroy the RAF. The English AI seems to reproduce Fighters like bunnies, but not much Tactical Air. If it's smart it knows that they're not much good if they can get picked off by fighters. So it's thinking there. Make sure to assign decent Generals to your Lead Fighter Elements! Also interception isn't a great tool...on the most difficult settings destroying the AI RAF should not be hard after France is wiped out on the ground.

I don't believe in altering production to make an AI better, though I have often done it with Civilization. It doesn't make the enemy smarter just chunky. :P

P.S. 2 land units, it must be a programmed item in. The AI has certain amount of surplus and it allows for a certain level of reinforcement to France. 2 must be the limit

< Message edited by battlevonwar -- 12/23/2011 3:14:09 AM >

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RE: First Game Thoughts - 12/23/2011 3:30:22 AM

rogo727

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You are right of course! I like to play this game as historical as possible, so never a sea lion option for me and that is why I play on the hardest level and put the allies to very easy. Gosh what a rush to fight all all those russian hordes with such limited resources.

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RE: First Game Thoughts - 12/24/2011 5:45:40 AM

colberki

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I bought Time or Wrath and I was very disappointed with the game. Looks like Time of Fury still needs lots of work but this time I think I will wait for Time of Fury 2.

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RE: First Game Thoughts - 2/15/2012 5:05:20 AM

bcgames

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quote:

ORIGINAL: colberki

I bought Time or Wrath and I was very disappointed with the game. Looks like Time of Fury still needs lots of work but this time I think I will wait for Time of Fury 2.

Is this the general view of those who play the game?

I am very interested in the game subject and seeing how the Time of Wrath game engine supports it. I like to play games that have simple, realistic solutions to complicated problems that will play out quickly. I also like to mod ALL art and ALL data. Time of Wrath appears to fulfill both requirements to some degree. Am I wrong?

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