RE: HTTR Ex Pack

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RE: HTTR Ex Pack - 1/15/2012 9:11:42 AM

Wiggum

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I think today, with all the big sales the gamers get on Steam and other download stores they tend to expect more cheap price generally for games.
There are a lot of "indie" developers who go the same way, selling their games cheeper then they might like but in the end it works for them.
I know a few guys who would have already bought Command Ops if it would be around 25$.
Many play the demo, like it and then get shocked as they see the price...at least today with all those sales on Steam and co where you get great and big games for 3$.

So what Panthergames have to do is a tightrope walk for sure...
I think a "delux edition" with BftB + the HTTR expansion for the price of the current BftB full version would be a step into the right direction.
Man, there are so many great wargames i would have bought already but they all tend to be far to expensive.
Time for a change if you ask me.
The number one goal today should not be to sell x numbers of games, it all about expanding your fan base.
With a small amount of hardcore wargamers that are ready to pay 60$ for a game you will never get the attention of todays gamers.
Offering a demo for BftB was already a step into the right direction !
Wargames tend to be far to expensive (for todays gamers) and not even offering a Demo...

< Message edited by Wiggum -- 1/15/2012 9:17:44 AM >

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Post #: 31

RE: HTTR Ex Pack - 1/15/2012 12:02:30 PM

Arjuna

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To all concerned ( and to no one in particular ),

Yes there are many bargain priced games on the market and that is because of the online sellers like Steam and Impulse that can make money on massive volumes. But they won't touch niche products like ours. Why? Because they know they can never sell the quantity required to make it work.

Yes you gamers are spoilt for choice and the choice is yours to make. No one is forcing you to buy our product. If you want it then you will have to pay for it. It's a simple as that. Please don't bother regurgitating the arguments about lowering price and getting more volume. I went through this whole price debate when we released BFTB and history proved me right. We sold pretty much the same if not more copies of BFTB than we did for COTA. The price was effectively irrelevant, except that we got more in our pocket. I might add it's still not enough for us to give up our day jobs but at least we get some compensation for spending the ridiculous hours developing this product.

I'm not going to say anymore on this matter but I will leave you with these retorical questions. Are you willing to give up all your spare time to develop games for others to enjoy? Would you be happy if we stopped developing wargames? Would all those cheap as chip non-wargames keep you satisfied? If the answer is yes, then why are you here on this forum? If the anser is no, then please stop winging about price.

< Message edited by Arjuna -- 1/15/2012 12:04:06 PM >

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Post #: 32

RE: HTTR Ex Pack - 1/15/2012 1:09:32 PM

phoenix

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Well, not sure there's any need to get annoyed, Dave. It's a great game, as we tell you all the time in here. I, for one, have said I'll pay whatever you ask for the add-on, because I value it and have the cash. But not everyone has the cash, and when people chat about it they chat about it in that context, I think. No one is criticising you. Yes, it involves choices, about how to spend your disposable, and right now, in Europe at least, those choices are a bit harder. Everyone would like, I'm sure, to have as much money as poss to spend (including on your game), and for you to have as much reward as poss in your pocket, and for the game to do well. Sometimes those things don't all work out together though. I spend all my time writing books for others to enjoy, and certainly since the 'crisis' they haven't sold near enough for me to live off either. But, though I want the money, I don't think that can be why I write the things. Nor - given the niche - can that be why you develop games. You must enjoy it, though it doesn't sound like that in the last post. Certainly, the 'enjoyment' involved in creating something is a little odd - sometimes it feels like ****, but given we keep doing it, it must be that ultimately it is rewarding. Cash is hard earned, as you know. Though I personally am very happy with the price, I can see why people might 'winge' and I think they should be entitled to. Buying your game they're doing you as much of a favour as you're doing them by producing it. The one doesn't exist without the other. And, as I said, this forum is full of fullsome praise for the product and your own achievements.

Anyway, if the unpalatable facts of the matter are that in order to ensure niche games like this are still produced the players have to pay a higher price than for more popular games then so be it. Most people who are 'winging', as you put it, are still going to buy, I assume, up to a point. But if you (or, I assume, Matrix) pass that point then you won't make any money, will you? Because if you charge, for example, �200 for the add-on then even I won't buy it and you'll have spent all that time making a product that didn't shift. So there is a point to the discussion, no? To help find that point. And it might even count purely as information for you.

And you shouldn't run yourself down by describing the hours put in as 'ridiculous'. Everything of value takes time, and - these days at least - games have value. They're what we do with our spare time, and getting and enjoying spare time is why we go out and sell our labour for most of the time. I come back to my books. It takes me a year to write a thriller that gets read in max two days on the beach, then tossed aside. That's a ridiculous investment in time, on one way of looking at it. But I don't think we should look at it like that. The only way the time you put in could be ridiculous would be if we took the view that it was disproportionate to the result because the result, at the end of the day, is 'only a game' that we can, after all, all live without. But we can live without all these luxury items. That's not quite the point, is it?

< Message edited by phoenix -- 1/15/2012 1:43:06 PM >

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Post #: 33

RE: HTTR Ex Pack - 1/15/2012 1:58:46 PM

BigDuke66

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Well we talk about Grad A war games, if a wargame is made the way to reach a large fan base then something is wrong with it because the Grognards(aka we) were, are and will never be a large fan base and so those "wanna-be-wargames" that do reach a large fan base are nothing for the real wargamer except a small distraction before he gets back to the real McCoy. And already the very first of this series was something for real wargamers.

What a real problem is is simply the fact that this "Geiz ist geil"(Greed is awesome) mentality is also reaching our territory and that is quite silly, I had a talk a while ago in a German strategy forum and one was a bit annoyed about the fact that matrix games don't get cheaper after a while, after explaining to him that the bottom line is that we get games of today for prices of the past(I bought TOAW CoW edition for about 110 German Mark almost 10 years ago what is roughly 55 Euros and the new TOAW III cost only 42 Euros for example) as games tend to still be sold to prices like in the 90's or cheaper where many other things have doubled in price(like sending packages thru Germany for example).
This mentality just doesn't work here or in other niche markets, take "Rise of Flight" for example, the game would long be dead if they wouldn't have started to make money by selling planes and other stuff and why is that so? Because hardcore simfans are also a small group and those 40-50 buck game prices wouldn't have worked out, they only work with things like "Halo" or other stuff that reaches everyone from 6 to 60 and from dumbass to genius and those are the games that can be flushed away after a while for 5 bucks or less because the costs are long covered or the developer simply doesn't get anything out of it because of those silly mass sellers.

Bottom line is like Arunja said, lowering the price tag won't bring much more customers, those hand full that maybe now would buy it are nothing to the loss of money on all the other buyers and a real expansion of the fan base wouldn't happen too because the demo would have already dragged them in no matter how the price is and if not the game isn't something for them anyway and so we wouldn't expand the fanbase.

Personally I would like to see what the game has to cost on current sales to make the guys live from it, seeing this everyone would realize how cheap it is.

Oh and just for the records, I would like to see & buy a COTA Pack too but I guess that has to wait till the series gets back to the Mediterranean/African theater.

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RE: HTTR Ex Pack - 1/15/2012 2:13:23 PM

phoenix

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BD66 said; Personally I would like to see what the game has to cost on current sales to make the guys live from it, seeing this everyone would realize how cheap it is.

Well, what it would take for them to live off it is not an indicator, at all, of how cheap or expensive it is - unless you happen to believe in the (Marxian) labour theory of value, which, for better or worse, no one does these days, not even in ex-communist countries.

A true indicator - we're all meant to believe - is how much people will pay for it. Even Grognards have a cut-off point. I couldn't afford - lterally, as in I don't have that cash available, in actuality - to spend �200 on the add-on, to take an extreme example. What people do when they decide whether to buy is balance the price against what they will get out of it. How much it costs to reproduce the 'labour units' (Dave et al) who made the item doesn't really come in to that. Except in a command economy if you get the balance wrong then you go out of business.

There's not a one-way favour thing going on here - Panther making games to a public that ought to be grateful and pay whatever - the people who make these choices to give their cash to Panther are the people who allow Panther to exist. And, as Dave so starkly put it, the choice is for them to make, and they will.

Maybe I should add that I have - in this forum - gone on and on about how I thought - me personally (many others disagreed) - that the price for the original game was cheap, for what it delivered, compared to all the other ****e out there. So usually I would find myself on the other side of the fence.

< Message edited by phoenix -- 1/15/2012 2:19:02 PM >

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Post #: 35

RE: HTTR Ex Pack - 1/15/2012 2:15:21 PM

Bletchley_Geek

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66
What a real problem is is simply the fact that this "Geiz ist geil"(Greed is awesome) mentality is also reaching our territory and that is quite silly, I had a talk a while ago in a German strategy forum and one was a bit annoyed about the fact that matrix games don't get cheaper after a while, after explaining to him that the bottom line is that we get games of today for prices of the past(I bought TOAW CoW edition for about 110 German Mark almost 10 years ago what is roughly 55 Euros and the new TOAW III cost only 42 Euros for example) as games tend to still be sold to prices like in the 90's or cheaper where many other things have doubled in price(like sending packages thru Germany for example).

My thoughts precisely BigDuke, and nobody remembers this. V for Victory: Market Garden was actually *way* more expensive to me than BftB + the HttR expansion pack will be. I paid for it back in 1993 10,000 Spanish Pesetas, which adjusting for inflation are something like 100�. And it had six or seven (?) scenarios, no map editor, no scenario editor... just the scenarios and the bugs, which you had to live by.

< Message edited by Bletchley_Geek -- 1/15/2012 2:19:00 PM >

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RE: HTTR Ex Pack - 1/15/2012 2:19:22 PM

phoenix

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Yeah, and one hundred years ago you couldn't even get a light bulb for that.......:)

In fact, I'm so impressed with my Dell computer that I would willingly pay the inflation-adjusted equivalent of what a much more sub-standard model would have cost me fifteen years ago. To help Dell out....

< Message edited by phoenix -- 1/15/2012 2:23:10 PM >

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RE: HTTR Ex Pack - 1/15/2012 2:24:27 PM

Bletchley_Geek

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Or to put things into scale. In 1993 I could rent a three-room flat for one month with expenses included for the same price as I got V for Victory. Now it would cost me no less than 600�.

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RE: HTTR Ex Pack - 1/15/2012 2:26:26 PM

phoenix

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Lol BG.

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RE: HTTR Ex Pack - 1/15/2012 3:14:45 PM

benpark

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Well, we all know the phrase "selling out"- it refers to someone that waters something down for the masses in order to cash in on a widened appeal. This is the way to make the volume sales argument valid. It doesn't really work in this instance.

The good folks that make this game will get my money on a higher priced game again and again for two reasons:

1. They don't skimp on realism and the true spirit of a wargame (ie. they don't sell out)

2. They have a proven track record of releasing good, well coded games- and support those titles post release in the timely-est fashion they can.

Without either of the above factors, I would be hesitant/wouldn't buy. But we all know this to be a quality, state of the art game series. Would things like a 3D map be nice? Yep, and I'll pay more when that title is offered. The map maker and estabs editor also make this a sandbox, so there is a good deal of value here.

I'm not saying that this is the method for all publishers or developers. #2 is critical- if you have no support post release for a problematic title- no more of my $$$. There are more than a few recent titles that fail at either one or both of my standards (one of which I am currently fuming about), but this series is a welcome no brainer/must buy. I appreciate that, and I think the developers appreciate the player base.

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RE: HTTR Ex Pack - 1/15/2012 4:08:08 PM

Grim.Reaper

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quote:

ORIGINAL: benpark

Well, we all know the phrase "selling out"- it refers to someone that waters something down for the masses in order to cash in on a widened appeal. This is the way to make the volume sales argument valid. It doesn't really work in this instance.

The good folks that make this game will get my money on a higher priced game again and again for two reasons:

1. They don't skimp on realism and the true spirit of a wargame (ie. they don't sell out)

2. They have a proven track record of releasing good, well coded games- and support those titles post release in the timely-est fashion they can.

Without either of the above factors, I would be hesitant/wouldn't buy. But we all know this to be a quality, state of the art game series. Would things like a 3D map be nice? Yep, and I'll pay more when that title is offered. The map maker and estabs editor also make this a sandbox, so there is a good deal of value here.

I'm not saying that this is the method for all publishers or developers. #2 is critical- if you have no support post release for a problematic title- no more of my $$$. There are more than a few recent titles that fail at either one or both of my standards (one of which I am currently fuming about), but this series is a welcome no brainer/must buy. I appreciate that, and I think the developers appreciate the player base.

And to be clear on some of my prior posts on price, I am in no way ever implying the games developed by this company is not solid and of good quality. That is the reason I am in this forum in the first place and have purchased every single game that has been put out at the initial price (no reduced prices or sale prices), except the very first one since it was no longer around by the time I found out about these games:) Ultimately as it has been said many times, the developer/publisher will set the price and each individual will have to decide if they agree with the price enough to purchase. We can debate the economics of pricing a million times over and everyone will have a different point of view based on their financial situation and what they believe makes the most money (i.e. higher price or more quantity or somewhere in between). I gave my opinion as to what I was hoping the price would be, but does not mean I am right.

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RE: HTTR Ex Pack - 1/15/2012 4:17:16 PM

wodin

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benpark is the tile you refer to one whose initials are TU by anychance?

I will say I don't begrudge Dave the money for a wargame of the quality he produces however I do feel that there is a limit to how much can be charged which is different to how much it's actually worth. I believe BftB is worth �80 and I believe the scenario pack content will be worth say �30. However can I actually afford �30 on what is a scenario pack of battles that have been covered in two previous purchases? Would that price stop me from buying it? Most likely, would I buy it for �20, most likely. Will I save up and buy the East Front game when it arrives for a premium price...of course I will as it's a whole new game with new features covering my favourite theatre so my favourite wargame covering my favourite theatre is for me priceless.

So as I mentioned a feel a high price for this particular scenario pack would I'm afraid be a no go for me.

Again I in no way wanted to get Dave annoyed and I do want Panther to carry on making wargames well into the future. I just can't in my present situation justify a premium price for this particular scenario pack. Though if I hadn't already purchased both RDOA and HTTR I would be willing to pay it.

I apologise to anyone if I have rubbed them up the wrong way. Wasn't intended. Though I really wouldn't like to see another backlash at Panther if this pack is released at a price that is considered high as there are a fair few out there who would be willing to complain on at least one particular forum by people who never even intended to buy it. I thought this was going to be an appeasement\PR pack in away to those who where initially wound up by the expensive of the game when first released. I expect a few have them have bought it in the sale since but releasing this pack at a price that everyone is happy with would go a long way to putting the nail in that particular coffin. You could then announce in plenty of time before release that the EF title will have a premium price and I'm sure you will have little compliants if they feel that any scenario packs in the future will be a good price. A high price core game and a fan pleasing price for Scenario packs would be a great business plan that I expect all will be more than happy with. I also believe you'd have people willing to work for nothing in making these packs for the community or if not nothing a very small fee. That way your outlay is minimal.

I do get annoyed though when I feel Matrix doesn't make you a top priority:)

Dave please don't be disheartened as you last post sounds like someone on the verge of jacking it all in. Your games are very important to many of us as they are a big part of our precious leisure time. As Phoenix says were not moaning at you but are worried that if you don't sell enough you wont make anymore! In away where trying to protect Panther Games rather than finish the company off. All of us on here are your main core fans so we have nothing to gain by pulling Panther Games down. Like I said we worry about you continuing and staying solvent and what you say in your last post in away fuels our anxiety about whether you will be able to carry on making games. So with that in mind we want you to be able to sell more and I suppose some of us feel that a high price in away is a threat to your continued success and our continued enjoyment. Listne if I won the lottery your coy is on my list.

Anyway I apologise again. Keep up the fantastic work Dave you are appreciated and I mention your games on many forums!

< Message edited by wodin -- 1/15/2012 4:35:21 PM >

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RE: HTTR Ex Pack - 1/15/2012 4:41:35 PM

benpark

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No one should feel bad about voicing an opinion that is fairly stated. Everyone wants an affordable game, without making it a complete wash for the developers.

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RE: HTTR Ex Pack - 1/15/2012 8:16:23 PM

BigDuke66

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@phoenix
"balance the price against what they will get out of it" well that is exactly what I would do but as these "throw away prices" were mentioned I thought I would be good to show the people how expensive the game really could have been.

I mean in todays society most people don't know what things are worth and simply look to the left and right to compare prices without really comparing quality and even when they do they don't know what quality is at all, in the end they sit there with some mass produced crap that doesn't satisfy them.

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RE: HTTR Ex Pack - 1/15/2012 8:31:37 PM

phoenix

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That's very true, BD66.

I myself do believe in the labour theory of value. That is, I believe that underlying the price and demand mechanism, there is a value given to commodities which arises out of the labour invested in them, and all other things being equal, more labour (measured in time) means more value. Price might or might not reflect this in the particular case, but it will reflect it generally.

But that's really like an item of faith. I'm sure it's not very rational. Nevertheless, when we say - perfectly naturally - that an item is 'worth' more than it 'costs' then we are often reflecting this out-of-date Marxist theory, I think.

We could have it worse, Dave - we could be musicians. Think of the phenomenal investment in time it takes to become an accomplished musician, in any genre - you have to learn music theory (something that expands constantly, so as to be almost infinte), learn your instrument, learn to put the two together, learn the ins and outs of a particular genre (like jazz). That's a life time's work. And the reward is usually miserable, if you can earn a living from it at all. There are a few who earn well - there are always a few - but most are scratching a living, with all those tremendous skills on board.

It would be nice to think there could remain a future for 'niche' games (and pricing yourself out of the niche won't achieve that, though I'm sure no one is about to do that). Here's hoping.

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RE: HTTR Ex Pack - 1/16/2012 9:02:12 AM

Wiggum

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Oh, there are quiet some "niche" games on Steam & Co.
Simulators and Old-school 2D RPG's for example.
In one case the developer was charging 20$ for the game on his site and on Steam it was on sale for 5$ !
How can this work for him...at least it works in some way because hes already workin on another title.

Nobody gets born as hardcore wargamer, so Panther can not expect to have a constant number of customers forever.
What they have to do is simple, get some new customers !

And will a new customer spend 60$ for a game he is not sure if he will really enjoy...most likely no.
A idea could be to have a "light" version of the game on Steam with only a few more scenarios as the demo for a fair price like 10$.
Now that how you could get attention from a crowd that dont even knows such game exist and maybe will be able to get them to buy the "full" game too.

Panther has already done 3 things right with BftB !
1st They have a demo !
2nd They have a real editor included
3rd They have a great game

Now, get more customers.
Get more people to know and play the game
Make money and use it to deliver even better games !

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Post #: 46

RE: HTTR Ex Pack - 1/16/2012 5:41:00 PM

BigDuke66

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The demo is already enough to test, at least it's better than the usual demos out there that show tits & ass but hid there ugly faces till the customer bought the game.

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RE: HTTR Ex Pack - 1/16/2012 9:07:27 PM

wodin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

The demo is already enough to test, at least it's better than the usual demos out there that show tits & ass but hid there ugly faces till the customer bought the game.

I like.

Tis now my sig.

< Message edited by wodin -- 1/16/2012 9:10:16 PM >

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Post #: 48

RE: HTTR Ex Pack - 1/16/2012 10:50:34 PM

BigDuke66

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Now I can die happy

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Post #: 49

RE: HTTR Ex Pack - 1/17/2012 4:27:28 PM

Major SNAFU

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I am of two minds about this subject.

I have only have BFTB for about 5 months, and it has already proved itself worth the money and then some. I would willingly pay more for a product of this quality. My time, especially my wargame time, it very precious to me and I don't like spending time on anything that isn't top-notch in terms of complexity, depth, accuracy of simulation, etc.

When I look around and see how much money people spend on things of much lower quality or cost/unit of time enjoyed, yet they baulk at a high price tag for a game of this quality it makes me quite angry.

We have seen way too many high-quality wargame houses vanish because people aren't/weren't willing to pay for quality. The price goes up higher because this isn't a niche market.

Do I want a lower price? No, not really. I can afford it and I am happy to pay top dollar for a top-quality product whether it is software, clothes, etc. Better to buy something once for 10 years of use that buy 10 things for 1 year's use each.

Also, I guess I also like the idea that a higher price also means that the only people who will purchase BFTB are people who really want it and are willing to allocate that kind of resource and make a commitment to the franchise.

I see the point about a lower price getting more customers, but it is important for a game like this to ask for what kind of custoemers? I for one, wouldn't like to see the game changes because of request from the finger-twitcher RTS crowd. Or a re-balancing of something because it is "too realistic." I guess what I am saying here is that I like BFTB because it rewards the player who invests in both learning the game and in understanding the principles it is trying to simulate, not a more mass-market beer and pretzels approach and I wouldn't want this changed to gain a few more customers.

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RE: HTTR Ex Pack - 1/17/2012 5:48:04 PM

simovitch

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Major SNAFU, thanks - that was well said. I hope whatever price the Dave and David et al. decide on will be acceptable to the greater majority.

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simovitch

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Post #: 51

RE: HTTR Ex Pack - 1/17/2012 6:35:34 PM

PirateJock

Posts: 449
Joined: 9/14/2006
From: North West, UK
Status: offline

quote:

Well, not sure there's any need to get annoyed, Dave.

You reckon?

Cheers

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Post #: 52

RE: HTTR Ex Pack - 1/17/2012 7:50:21 PM

jazman

Posts: 361
Joined: 1/20/2007
From: Crush Depth
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Major SNAFU

...

Do I want a lower price?� No, not really.� I can afford it and I am happy to pay top dollar for a top-quality product whether it is software, clothes, etc.� Better to buy something once for 10 years of use that buy 10 things for 1 year's use each.

Also, I guess I also like the idea that a higher price also means that the only people who will purchase BFTB are people who really want it and are willing to allocate that kind of resource and make a commitment to the franchise.

I see the point about a lower price getting more customers, but it is important for a game like this to ask for what kind of custoemers?�

...

You mean we're not shopping at Wal-Mart (Ikea) for cheap junk from China (Sweden)? You mean we ought to be willing to pay more for quality kit? What's this world coming to!

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(in reply to Major SNAFU)

Post #: 53

RE: HTTR Ex Pack - 1/17/2012 8:01:47 PM

wodin

Posts: 6503
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline

Not sure I understand the "I like because it means people who spend a high price like the game". In no way at all will panther deviate just to please a crowd if it isn't in keeping with their ideas. They wouldn't be swayed.

Also did I read that BftB sold about the same or abit better than CotA? As BftB should have out sold by upto 5:1 due to the theatre. So I'm afraid I have to disagree here with Dave that history has proved him right. This game on the Western Front and one of the most famous battles aswell (the most popular theatre in WW2 on the whole) should have heavily outsold a game set in Crete. Lets be conservative a say the BftB game would have outsold cotA if priced at $39.99 3:1. You'd have made an extra $39.99 on every game you sold at $80.

< Message edited by wodin -- 1/17/2012 8:04:56 PM >

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(in reply to PirateJock)

Post #: 54

RE: HTTR Ex Pack - 1/17/2012 8:06:36 PM

phoenix

Posts: 970
Joined: 9/28/2010
Status: offline

quote:

I can afford it and I am happy to pay top dollar for a top-quality product whether it is software, clothes, etc. Better to buy something once for 10 years of use that buy 10 things for 1 year's use each.

Well, me too, as it happens. Lucky us. Not everyone is in that position, however.

(in reply to wodin)

Post #: 55

RE: HTTR Ex Pack - 1/17/2012 8:31:25 PM

RayWolfe

Posts: 1544
Joined: 2/5/2003
From: Kent in the UK
Status: offline

Give it a rest, guys. We have been round this block so many times it becomes tedious ... particularly when NO PRICE HAS BEEN QUOTED.
Now be good boys and get back into bed.

(in reply to phoenix)

Post #: 56

RE: HTTR Ex Pack - 1/17/2012 8:40:48 PM

Major SNAFU

Posts: 351
Joined: 11/3/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jazman

You mean we're not shopping at Wal-Mart (Ikea) for cheap junk from China (Sweden)? You mean we ought to be willing to pay more for quality kit? What's this world coming to!

I rather think not. ;). It is why I will plunk down $$$ for a new Filsons Mackinaw cruizer jacket, knowing that my grandparents still wear the one's they bought when they were in their 20s. My wife wears one of them now. Thats 50+ years of wear and people compliment my wife on her jacket nearly every time she wears it. With luck this one will last me until I die and my son will get it.

Much better that the hassle and expense of buying a new one every 5 years or so. And cheaper over the long run.

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(in reply to jazman)

Post #: 57

RE: HTTR Ex Pack - 1/17/2012 9:33:47 PM

phoenix

Posts: 970
Joined: 9/28/2010
Status: offline

Not quite the same with computer games, though. :)
But I want one of those jackets...
On second thoughts - I just checked the price of it - $350! I could buy, instead, a Ralph Lauren for five times that and look forward to only three or four years wear before it dropped to pieces....

< Message edited by phoenix -- 1/17/2012 9:39:33 PM >

(in reply to Major SNAFU)

Post #: 58

RE: HTTR Ex Pack - 1/17/2012 11:05:58 PM

wodin

Posts: 6503
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RayWolfe

Give it a rest, guys. We have been round this block so many times it becomes tedious ... particularly when NO PRICE HAS BEEN QUOTED.
Now be good boys and get back into bed.

Night Ray;)

As I stated before these chats between us converts aren't about us per se but about Panther games and their ability to continue making games...and some of us will have issues with any perceived threat to that happening.

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(in reply to RayWolfe)

Post #: 59

RE: HTTR Ex Pack - 1/24/2012 11:35:28 PM

Bison36

Posts: 463
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: online

Looking forward to the expansion Dave.

You make great games that have been worth every penny I've spent on them.

(in reply to wodin)

Post #: 60