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RE: Airwar Gripes

 
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RE: Airwar Gripes - 12/23/2011 12:02:02 AM   
gingerbread


Posts: 1166
Joined: 1/4/2007
From: Lund, Sweden
Status: offline 		By analogy if you run a hasty attack against big fortified stack behind the river in bad terrain would you be surprised to loose many squads?

Then there should perhaps be the equivalent of 'Hasty turns into Scouting Attack'. A chance that the mission is cancelled if the CAP is (much) larger that the escorts.

(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 31
RE: Airwar Gripes - 12/23/2011 12:15:40 AM   
Helpless


Posts: 11083
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Then there should perhaps be the equivalent of 'Hasty turns into Scouting Attack'. A chance that the mission is cancelled if the CAP is (much) larger that the escorts.


Oh, yes..

But for now you can run air recons much more often and easier than ground attack recons. Also you can always make a smaller strike considering it a "hasty" attack. IOW, there are ways to predict enemy presence in the air.

P.S. I know that air model could be improved a lot and it is already reworked a lot in WITW. basically it will be a game within a game. But for now, imho, current WITE air model is quite adequate to match the needs of the main task it served - ground support.

"Best PVO is a tank on enemy's airfield" (c)

_____________________________

Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW Development

(in reply to gingerbread)
Post #: 32
RE: Airwar Gripes - 12/23/2011 11:43:24 AM   
Bletchley_Geek


Posts: 2114
Joined: 11/26/2009
From: Living in the fair city of Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Helpless

quote:

If this isn't an anomaly, I don't know what it is.


Depends how you look at it. Unit interdiction is highly abstracted (as many other aspects of air war), in reality it consist of many small flights along the path. So your analogy doesn't seem valid to me.

Also if you look above, CAP is affected by the bug - from this POV it is an anomaly and your example could be used to prove it. Besides I just found another flak bug, which can make some fighters and high speed bombers too vulnerable to the flak fire. So it may add up to the proof of "anomaly".

In any case, posting a save on tech forum is much more appreciated. I can't load into debugger "feeling of out of whack" as I see plenty examples where in general it works as expected (btw, your game with Q-Ball is just one of them).


I'm glad that you still work on the air model, fixing any problem you find on it.

However, before posting on the tech support forum I try to figure out what's WAD, or what's reasonable to expect. While I do indeed see your point regarding abstraction, what I question is that the way these outcomes are presented to the player is misconstrues badly what's actually happening defeats analysis attempts unless I had "insider" knowledge. Not to mention that some of these abstractions are - from my completely amateurish POV - far fetched. Being the air model so focused - or rather, exclusively driven by - on-land activity is something I honestly hope you'll revise.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bletchley_Geek
quote:

I don't want to enter a pissing contest with anybody, much less with you Pavel. Honestly.


Cheers. Merry Christmas! :)


Merry Christmas to you as well, Helpless.

_____________________________


Real men go to war on Real tanks

(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 33
RE: Airwar Gripes - 12/23/2011 5:13:21 PM   
RCH


Posts: 176
Joined: 1/19/2011
Status: offline 		I'm still learning this game, but is the following an example of this "bug"?

1941 I have reached the mud.  I have cut off both Leningrad and Sevastopol.  They both have ports and I begin attacking the ports with my air forces.  Sevastopol is going well.  No Soviet airfields so my bombers fly unmolested and are causing 10 to 15 percent destruction every turn with the loss of a few bombers.  Leningrad is a different story.  I am causing 3 percent damage a turn ( not near enough to block supplies) and the Soviet air force is active and quite good.  I fly a mission of 41 109's and 68 JU 88s against 23 -  I 153s, 24 - I 16s, 12 - Mig 3s, and 22 Yak - 1s.

I lose 2 fighters and 5 bombers and the Soviets lose 3 fighters.

In comparison to Sevastopol the difference is the more numerous and capable Soviet air force.

Shouldn't the German BF 109s be cleaning up these obsolete Soviet aircraft and clearing the skies for my bombers?


In my initial post I had 1942 as the year. That was a mistake it is only 1941.



< Message edited by RCH -- 12/23/2011 7:47:26 PM >

(in reply to Bletchley_Geek)
Post #: 34
RE: Airwar Gripes - 12/23/2011 5:15:42 PM   
Helpless


Posts: 11083
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Shouldn't the German BF 109s be cleaning up these obsolete Soviet aircraft and clearing the skies for my bombers?


Just one example, Soviet AF in Sevastopol was operation till the last days before the city fall in 1942. I see nothing wrong in your example.

_____________________________

Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW Development

(in reply to RCH)
Post #: 35
RE: Airwar Gripes - 12/23/2011 5:19:59 PM   
Helpless


Posts: 11083
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

However, before posting on the tech support forum I try to figure out what's WAD, or what's reasonable to expect. While I do indeed see your point regarding abstraction, what I question is that the way these outcomes are presented to the player is misconstrues badly what's actually happening defeats analysis attempts unless I had "insider" knowledge. Not to mention that some of these abstractions are - from my completely amateurish POV - far fetched. Being the air model so focused - or rather, exclusively driven by - on-land activity is something I honestly hope you'll revise.


Yes, providing more insides for the air combat would be good, but it is very difficult in current situation. Besides we changing a lot in WITW, so it is better to back port it to the WITE, which probably will be called WITE-2.

_____________________________

Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW Development

(in reply to Bletchley_Geek)
Post #: 36
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